Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying

2022-06-10 Thread Omo Oaiya 
On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 at 16:29, Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML 
wrote:

>
>
> On Jun 10, 2022, at 05:22 , Noah  wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022, 00:19 Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML, 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes, there’s no secret that I am a consultant to Cloud Innovation and
>> Larus, Ltd.
>
>
> True story.
>
> However, I have no involvement or affiliation with NRS and
>> no desire to have same.
>
>
> Internet archives never forget.
>
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013810.html
>
> On that thread, your response was in full defence of NRS as you really
> went on to explaib what they are all about as though you had insider
> knowledge of the organization.
>
> Cheers,
> Noah
>
>
> Nope… It was a statement against certain misinformation being promulgated
> by you at the time.
>
> It was based on the publicly available record at the time and not any
> internal knowledge or affiliation with NRS.
>
> I don’t agree with lots of things Larus is doing/has done, but I’m
> supporting them in their law suits because I believe the board and staff
> are just plain wrong in their effort to revoke their membership based on a
> plain text reading of the provisions cited by the board and staff in their
> various affidavits and correspondence.
>
> Facts are facts. When I see misinformation and/or disinformation, I will
> tend to speak out against it, even when I don’t agree with or support the
> party being attacked.
>

These would have to be alternative facts from your track record on the
AFRINIC lists :-)

Omo
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Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying

2022-06-10 Thread Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML 


> On Jun 10, 2022, at 05:22 , Noah  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 8 Jun 2022, 00:19 Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML,  > wrote:
> 
> Yes, there’s no secret that I am a consultant to Cloud Innovation and
> Larus, Ltd.
> 
> True story.
> 
> However, I have no involvement or affiliation with NRS and
> no desire to have same.
> 
> Internet archives never forget.
> 
> https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013810.html 
> 
> 
> On that thread, your response was in full defence of NRS as you really went 
> on to explaib what they are all about as though you had insider knowledge of 
> the organization.
> 
> Cheers,
> Noah

Nope… It was a statement against certain misinformation being promulgated by 
you at the time.

It was based on the publicly available record at the time and not any internal 
knowledge or affiliation with NRS.

I don’t agree with lots of things Larus is doing/has done, but I’m supporting 
them in their law suits because I believe the board and staff are just plain 
wrong in their effort to revoke their membership based on a plain text reading 
of the provisions cited by the board and staff in their various affidavits and 
correspondence.

Facts are facts. When I see misinformation and/or disinformation, I will tend 
to speak out against it, even when I don’t agree with or support the party 
being attacked.

Owen

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Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying

2022-06-10 Thread Noah 
On Wed, 8 Jun 2022, 00:19 Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML, 
wrote:

>
> Yes, there’s no secret that I am a consultant to Cloud Innovation and
> Larus, Ltd.


True story.

However, I have no involvement or affiliation with NRS and
> no desire to have same.


Internet archives never forget.

https://lists.afrinic.net/pipermail/rpd/2021/013810.html

On that thread, your response was in full defence of NRS as you really went
on to explaib what they are all about as though you had insider knowledge
of the organization.

Cheers,
Noah
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Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying

2022-06-07 Thread Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML 


> On Jun 6, 2022, at 04:25 , Eliot Lear via ARIN-PPML  
> wrote:
> 
> Am I the only one on this list who finds these sorts of ad hominem attacks 
> distasteful?  How about you guys go find a boxing ring or something?
> 
> No, I don’t care who started it.
> 
> Eliot
> 
>> On 3 Jun 2022, at 00:28, Ronald F. Guilmette  wrote:
>> 
>> In message ,
>> Owen DeLong  wrote:
>> 
 On Jun 1, 2022, at 14:52 , Ronald F. Guilmette  
 wrote:
 
 So, just to be clear about this Owen, are you asserting that, contrary to
 the first-person testimony contained in the video, there are not now, and
 there have not been, within, say, the preceeding calendar year, back from 
 today,
 any attempts to purchase "voting rights" from any member organization of
 AFRINIC, and that no member of AFRINIC has been either offered or given any
 kind of compensation, renumeration, inducement, or "investment" of any kind
 which has been conditioned upon the receiving member either changing its
 official vote(s) or giving over control of said vote(s) to any other party
 or parties?
>>> 
>>> I am not. I have no idea one way or the other whether that has occurred
>>> or not.
>> 
>> Well, it is not exactly a secret that you are or have been employed by a
>> certain not-really-african shell company, inccorporated in the "offshore"
>> jurisdiction of the Seychelles Islands, and which has been vigorously
>> contesting, via any any and every means possible, AFRINIC's decision to
>> revoke its IPv4 allocations, for cause, including but not limited to
>> litigation.

Yes, there’s no secret that I am a consultant to Cloud Innovation and
Larus, Ltd. However, I have no involvement or affiliation with NRS and
no desire to have same. I find the video on the front of the NRS web
site repugnant and false.

>> It is also not hard to intuit that the vote buying scheme described in the
>> video likely traces back to that same company -- a company that would
>> seem to have reason to want to engineer a "hostile takeover" of the
>> AFRINIC Board of Directors, again via any and every means available.

Obviously, I don’t know everything Larus or Cloud Innovation do, but I am
not aware of any attempts by either organization to engage in such a scheme.
If I were aware of such conduct by either organization, I’d vigorously oppose
it.

>> Given that you do now work for this company, or that you have worked for
>> this company in the relatively recent past, I must ask if your claimed
>> total ignorance of this underhanded scheme is a result of your natural
>> lack of curiosity, or if your state of ongoing abject ignorance of these
>> matters may perhaps be the result of your deliberate desire not to know.

To the best of my knowledge, neither. I made the decision several months ago
not to get involved with any of the activities of NRS as I did not feel that I 
could
align with its position or its likely actions. Since then, I have not had any 
knowledge
of their activities because I have no relationship with them.

>> In either case, I would ask that you make appropriate inquiries with your
>> paymaster and get back to us in order to let the ARIN community know if
>> there is any shred of truth to the rather stunning claim that a coordinated
>> scheme to buy the votes of AFRINIC member organizations has in fact been
>> put into effect.

Yeah, the use of the term paymaster here is not a valid reflection of the 
relationship
I have with either CI or Larus. However, I believe the owner of both companies 
is subscribed
to this list and is perfectly capable of speaking for himself. Further, you’re 
free to
ask him directly if you wish. It’s not like you don’t know how to reach him.

>> No hurry.  We'll wait.

I don’t think it’s my job to do your research, so you may be waiting for a while
if you choose not to do your own research on the matter.

Owen

>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> rfg
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Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying

2022-06-06 Thread Eliot Lear via ARIN-PPML 
Am I the only one on this list who finds these sorts of ad hominem attacks 
distasteful?  How about you guys go find a boxing ring or something?

No, I don’t care who started it.

Eliot

> On 3 Jun 2022, at 00:28, Ronald F. Guilmette  wrote:
> 
> In message ,
> Owen DeLong  wrote:
> 
>>> On Jun 1, 2022, at 14:52 , Ronald F. Guilmette  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> So, just to be clear about this Owen, are you asserting that, contrary to
>>> the first-person testimony contained in the video, there are not now, and
>>> there have not been, within, say, the preceeding calendar year, back from 
>>> today,
>>> any attempts to purchase "voting rights" from any member organization of
>>> AFRINIC, and that no member of AFRINIC has been either offered or given any
>>> kind of compensation, renumeration, inducement, or "investment" of any kind
>>> which has been conditioned upon the receiving member either changing its
>>> official vote(s) or giving over control of said vote(s) to any other party
>>> or parties?
>> 
>> I am not. I have no idea one way or the other whether that has occurred
>> or not.
> 
> Well, it is not exactly a secret that you are or have been employed by a
> certain not-really-african shell company, inccorporated in the "offshore"
> jurisdiction of the Seychelles Islands, and which has been vigorously
> contesting, via any any and every means possible, AFRINIC's decision to
> revoke its IPv4 allocations, for cause, including but not limited to
> litigation.
> 
> It is also not hard to intuit that the vote buying scheme described in the
> video likely traces back to that same company -- a company that would
> seem to have reason to want to engineer a "hostile takeover" of the
> AFRINIC Board of Directors, again via any and every means available.
> 
> Given that you do now work for this company, or that you have worked for
> this company in the relatively recent past, I must ask if your claimed
> total ignorance of this underhanded scheme is a result of your natural
> lack of curiosity, or if your state of ongoing abject ignorance of these
> matters may perhaps be the result of your deliberate desire not to know.
> 
> In either case, I would ask that you make appropriate inquiries with your
> paymaster and get back to us in order to let the ARIN community know if
> there is any shred of truth to the rather stunning claim that a coordinated
> scheme to buy the votes of AFRINIC member organizations has in fact been
> put into effect.
> 
> No hurry.  We'll wait.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> rfg
> ___
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Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying

2022-06-02 Thread Ronald F. Guilmette 
In message , 
Owen DeLong  wrote:

>> On Jun 1, 2022, at 14:52 , Ronald F. Guilmette  
>> wrote:
>>
>> So, just to be clear about this Owen, are you asserting that, contrary to
>> the first-person testimony contained in the video, there are not now, and
>> there have not been, within, say, the preceeding calendar year, back from 
>> today,
>> any attempts to purchase "voting rights" from any member organization of
>> AFRINIC, and that no member of AFRINIC has been either offered or given any
>> kind of compensation, renumeration, inducement, or "investment" of any kind
>> which has been conditioned upon the receiving member either changing its
>> official vote(s) or giving over control of said vote(s) to any other party
>> or parties?
>
>I am not. I have no idea one way or the other whether that has occurred
>or not.

Well, it is not exactly a secret that you are or have been employed by a
certain not-really-african shell company, inccorporated in the "offshore"
jurisdiction of the Seychelles Islands, and which has been vigorously
contesting, via any any and every means possible, AFRINIC's decision to
revoke its IPv4 allocations, for cause, including but not limited to
litigation.

It is also not hard to intuit that the vote buying scheme described in the
video likely traces back to that same company -- a company that would
seem to have reason to want to engineer a "hostile takeover" of the
AFRINIC Board of Directors, again via any and every means available.

Given that you do now work for this company, or that you have worked for
this company in the relatively recent past, I must ask if your claimed
total ignorance of this underhanded scheme is a result of your natural
lack of curiosity, or if your state of ongoing abject ignorance of these
matters may perhaps be the result of your deliberate desire not to know.

In either case, I would ask that you make appropriate inquiries with your
paymaster and get back to us in order to let the ARIN community know if
there is any shred of truth to the rather stunning claim that a coordinated
scheme to buy the votes of AFRINIC member organizations has in fact been
put into effect.

No hurry.  We'll wait.


Regards,
rfg
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Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying

2022-06-02 Thread Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML 


> On Jun 1, 2022, at 14:52 , Ronald F. Guilmette  wrote:
> 
> In message , 
> Owen DeLong  wrote:
> 
>> It's actually full of misinformation.
>> 
>> It misstates the AFRINIC bylaws, the contents of the RSA, and the CPM.
>> 
>> It is also from one of the candidates hand picked by the board and
>> Nominating Committee to railroad the election.
>> 
>> The election has been challenged and is currently blocked by court order
> 
> So, just to be clear about this Owen, are you asserting that, contrary to
> the first-person testimony contained in the video, there are not now, and
> there have not been, within, say, the preceeding calendar year, back from 
> today,

> any attempts to purchase "voting rights" from any member organization of
> AFRINIC, and that no member of AFRINIC has been either offered or given any
> kind of compensation, renumeration, inducement, or "investment" of any kind
> which has been conditioned upon the receiving member either changing its
> official vote(s) or giving over control of said vote(s) to any other party
> or parties?

I am not. I have no idea one way or the other whether that has occurred or not.


I am saying that a lot of the other things he said in the video are factually 
incorrect
and misleading. I am saying that his interpretation of the bylaws, CPM, and RSA
is flat out incorrect and that someone who is a candidate for the board should 
be
more familiar with the governing documents of the organization and be able to
read their plain text meaning more accurately than he apparently has.

> Owen, I know that, much like myself, you are enamored of extensive 
> elaboration,
> but in this instance I do believe that a simple yes or no will do.

I think you are wrong in this case. You are assuming I was commenting on 
different
aspects of the video than I was.

I attack the credibility of the man in the video based on the statements he 
makes that
I know to be false. I have no idea about the statements you are focused on. 
They could
be true or false, either way and I have no idea.

On the other hand, I’m not sure that’s all that relevant. While I consider such 
actions to
be immoral and unethical, they aren’t actually prohibited by any of the AFRINIC 
governing
documents.

On the other hand, many of the recent acts of the board are actually violation 
of MU law
and/or the AFRINIC governing documents, so I’m more focused on that.

Owen


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Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying

2022-06-02 Thread Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML 


> On Jun 1, 2022, at 14:17 , Noah  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> And its important for the ARIN community to not be misled by one sided 
> subjective views from Owen.

As opposed to being misled by the one sided subjective views of Noah?

> Time will tell and the Afrinic community representatives shall present their 
> side of the story and what has been happening then you as a numbers community 
> can make your own judgement.

Indeed… Wasn’t the entire board served with contempt of court papers during the 
meeting this week?

> The message in that video is not misinformation as we have other members who 
> have collaborated openly what is being stated in the video.

Oh, it most certainly is misinformation…

The bylaws contain no requirement for address utilization to be within the 
African region other than what is enshrined in the soft landing policy.

Many of his statements about the Bylaws, the RSA, and the CPM are flat out 
incorrect and do not reflect a plain text reading of the materials.

As to whether or not any one approached him to “buy his vote”, I cannot say. 
There are a number of organizations in the region that I would not be surprised 
by such behavior, yes, including some that are in the business of IPv4 
marketing/trading/leasing.

I agree that attempting to purchase votes is deplorable and immoral. Turns out, 
it’s not actually prohibited by the rules (someone might want to work on a 
bylaws amendment to address that).

Nonetheless, the fact remains that this particular person is the only candidate 
the Nominating Committee put up for one of the seats in the AFRINIC election 
where they had an option to reject his candidacy. The other candidate is an 
incumbent and the bylaws actually prohibit the nominating committee from 
preventing an incumbent from running for re-election.

Owen

> 
> Noah
> 
> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022, 01:07 Daniel Schroder,  > wrote:
> 
> I second this as well, Owens presenting arguments with what seems like good 
> logic with short term gains, is long term loss to the parties who should be 
> on watch and then do not do so, and now we have to watch said parties edge in 
> board votes to the bodies who's responsibility is to stop exactly this, by 
> parties who want more freedom with moving IPv4 space offshore.
> No.
> 
> 
> On Wed, 01 Jun 2022, 21:43 Noah, mailto:n...@neo.co.tz>> 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> On Wed, 1 Jun 2022, 23:02 Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML,  > wrote:
> It’s actually full of misinformation.
> 
> It misstates the AFRINIC bylaws, the contents of the RSA, and the CPM.
> 
> It is also from one of the candidates hand picked by the board and Nominating 
> Committee to railroad the election.
> 
> The election has been challenged and is currently blocked by court order 
> because of the improper acts of the board in conducting it.
> 
> This is a much bigger mess than folks here are likely to be aware of and the 
> AFRINIC board is rather thoroughly off the rails at this point.
> 
> Owen
> 
> Owen
> 
> Please be honest and dont mislead the Arin community.
> 
> There is a second side to each story. Time will tell.
> 
> Noah
> 
> 
> > On May 31, 2022, at 23:05 , Steve Spence  > > wrote:
> > 
> > This is a well done video.  I hope they sort things out.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> > Steve Spence
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: ARIN-PPML  > > On Behalf Of Ronald F. Guilmette
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 12:03 AM
> > To: arin-ppml@arin.net 
> > Subject: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying
> > 
> > 
> > Even though this relates to a whole different Regional Internet Registry, I 
> > think that some (many) of you may be interested to watch this video and to 
> > learn what's been going on of late down in the AFRINIC region.
> > 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32xCurWfJo4 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
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>

Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying

2022-06-02 Thread Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML 
If you think that I am being dishonest, please point to which statement I made 
that you think is false.

I’m happy to support my position with evidence.

Owen


> On Jun 1, 2022, at 12:43 , Noah  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 1 Jun 2022, 23:02 Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML,  > wrote:
> It’s actually full of misinformation.
> 
> It misstates the AFRINIC bylaws, the contents of the RSA, and the CPM.
> 
> It is also from one of the candidates hand picked by the board and Nominating 
> Committee to railroad the election.
> 
> The election has been challenged and is currently blocked by court order 
> because of the improper acts of the board in conducting it.
> 
> This is a much bigger mess than folks here are likely to be aware of and the 
> AFRINIC board is rather thoroughly off the rails at this point.
> 
> Owen
> 
> Owen
> 
> Please be honest and dont mislead the Arin community.
> 
> There is a second side to each story. Time will tell.
> 
> Noah
> 
> 
> > On May 31, 2022, at 23:05 , Steve Spence  > > wrote:
> > 
> > This is a well done video.  I hope they sort things out.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Regards
> > 
> > Steve Spence
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: ARIN-PPML  > > On Behalf Of Ronald F. Guilmette
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 12:03 AM
> > To: arin-ppml@arin.net 
> > Subject: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying
> > 
> > 
> > Even though this relates to a whole different Regional Internet Registry, I 
> > think that some (many) of you may be interested to watch this video and to 
> > learn what's been going on of late down in the AFRINIC region.
> > 
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32xCurWfJo4 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
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> > 
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> > issues.
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Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying

2022-06-01 Thread Ronald F. Guilmette 
In message , 
Owen DeLong  wrote:

>It's actually full of misinformation.
>
>It misstates the AFRINIC bylaws, the contents of the RSA, and the CPM.
>
>It is also from one of the candidates hand picked by the board and
>Nominating Committee to railroad the election.
>
>The election has been challenged and is currently blocked by court order

So, just to be clear about this Owen, are you asserting that, contrary to
the first-person testimony contained in the video, there are not now, and
there have not been, within, say, the preceeding calendar year, back from today,
any attempts to purchase "voting rights" from any member organization of
AFRINIC, and that no member of AFRINIC has been either offered or given any
kind of compensation, renumeration, inducement, or "investment" of any kind
which has been conditioned upon the receiving member either changing its
official vote(s) or giving over control of said vote(s) to any other party
or parties?

Owen, I know that, much like myself, you are enamored of extensive elaboration,
but in this instance I do believe that a simple yes or no will do.


Regards,
rfg
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Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying

2022-06-01 Thread Noah 
And its important for the ARIN community to not be misled by one sided
subjective views from Owen.

Time will tell and the Afrinic community representatives shall present
their side of the story and what has been happening then you as a numbers
community can make your own judgement.

The message in that video is not misinformation as we have other members
who have collaborated openly what is being stated in the video.

Noah

On Thu, 2 Jun 2022, 01:07 Daniel Schroder, 
wrote:

>
> I second this as well, Owens presenting arguments with what seems like
> good logic with short term gains, is long term loss to the parties who
> should be on watch and then do not do so, and now we have to watch said
> parties edge in board votes to the bodies who's responsibility is to stop
> exactly this, by parties who want more freedom with moving IPv4 space
> offshore.
> No.
>
>
> On Wed, 01 Jun 2022, 21:43 Noah,  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 1 Jun 2022, 23:02 Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML, 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It’s actually full of misinformation.
>>>
>>> It misstates the AFRINIC bylaws, the contents of the RSA, and the CPM.
>>>
>>> It is also from one of the candidates hand picked by the board and
>>> Nominating Committee to railroad the election.
>>>
>>> The election has been challenged and is currently blocked by court order
>>> because of the improper acts of the board in conducting it.
>>>
>>> This is a much bigger mess than folks here are likely to be aware of and
>>> the AFRINIC board is rather thoroughly off the rails at this point.
>>>
>>> Owen
>>>
>>
>> Owen
>>
>> Please be honest and dont mislead the Arin community.
>>
>> There is a second side to each story. Time will tell.
>>
>> Noah
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > On May 31, 2022, at 23:05 , Steve Spence 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > This is a well done video.  I hope they sort things out.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Regards
>>> >
>>> > Steve Spence
>>> >
>>> > -Original Message-
>>> > From: ARIN-PPML  On Behalf Of Ronald F.
>>> Guilmette
>>> > Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 12:03 AM
>>> > To: arin-ppml@arin.net
>>> > Subject: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Even though this relates to a whole different Regional Internet
>>> Registry, I think that some (many) of you may be interested to watch this
>>> video and to learn what's been going on of late down in the AFRINIC region.
>>> >
>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32xCurWfJo4
>>> >
>>> > ___
>>> > ARIN-PPML
>>> > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
>>> Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net).
>>> > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>>> > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>>> > Please contact i...@arin.net if you experience any issues.
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Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying

2022-06-01 Thread Daniel Schroder 
I second this as well, Owens presenting arguments with what seems like good
logic with short term gains, is long term loss to the parties who should be
on watch and then do not do so, and now we have to watch said parties edge
in board votes to the bodies who's responsibility is to stop exactly this,
by parties who want more freedom with moving IPv4 space offshore.
No.


On Wed, 01 Jun 2022, 21:43 Noah,  wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, 1 Jun 2022, 23:02 Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML, 
> wrote:
>
>> It’s actually full of misinformation.
>>
>> It misstates the AFRINIC bylaws, the contents of the RSA, and the CPM.
>>
>> It is also from one of the candidates hand picked by the board and
>> Nominating Committee to railroad the election.
>>
>> The election has been challenged and is currently blocked by court order
>> because of the improper acts of the board in conducting it.
>>
>> This is a much bigger mess than folks here are likely to be aware of and
>> the AFRINIC board is rather thoroughly off the rails at this point.
>>
>> Owen
>>
>
> Owen
>
> Please be honest and dont mislead the Arin community.
>
> There is a second side to each story. Time will tell.
>
> Noah
>
>>
>>
>> > On May 31, 2022, at 23:05 , Steve Spence 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > This is a well done video.  I hope they sort things out.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Regards
>> >
>> > Steve Spence
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: ARIN-PPML  On Behalf Of Ronald F.
>> Guilmette
>> > Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 12:03 AM
>> > To: arin-ppml@arin.net
>> > Subject: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying
>> >
>> >
>> > Even though this relates to a whole different Regional Internet
>> Registry, I think that some (many) of you may be interested to watch this
>> video and to learn what's been going on of late down in the AFRINIC region.
>> >
>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32xCurWfJo4
>> >
>> > ___
>> > ARIN-PPML
>> > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
>> Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net).
>> > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
>> > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
>> > Please contact i...@arin.net if you experience any issues.
>> > ___
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>>
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>>
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Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying

2022-06-01 Thread Noah 
On Wed, 1 Jun 2022, 23:02 Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML, 
wrote:

> It’s actually full of misinformation.
>
> It misstates the AFRINIC bylaws, the contents of the RSA, and the CPM.
>
> It is also from one of the candidates hand picked by the board and
> Nominating Committee to railroad the election.
>
> The election has been challenged and is currently blocked by court order
> because of the improper acts of the board in conducting it.
>
> This is a much bigger mess than folks here are likely to be aware of and
> the AFRINIC board is rather thoroughly off the rails at this point.
>
> Owen
>

Owen

Please be honest and dont mislead the Arin community.

There is a second side to each story. Time will tell.

Noah

>
>
> > On May 31, 2022, at 23:05 , Steve Spence 
> wrote:
> >
> > This is a well done video.  I hope they sort things out.
> >
> >
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Steve Spence
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: ARIN-PPML  On Behalf Of Ronald F.
> Guilmette
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 12:03 AM
> > To: arin-ppml@arin.net
> > Subject: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying
> >
> >
> > Even though this relates to a whole different Regional Internet
> Registry, I think that some (many) of you may be interested to watch this
> video and to learn what's been going on of late down in the AFRINIC region.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32xCurWfJo4
> >
> > ___
> > ARIN-PPML
> > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net).
> > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
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> > Please contact i...@arin.net if you experience any issues.
> > ___
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>
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Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying

2022-06-01 Thread Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML 
It’s actually full of misinformation.

It misstates the AFRINIC bylaws, the contents of the RSA, and the CPM.

It is also from one of the candidates hand picked by the board and Nominating 
Committee to railroad the election.

The election has been challenged and is currently blocked by court order 
because of the improper acts of the board in conducting it.

This is a much bigger mess than folks here are likely to be aware of and the 
AFRINIC board is rather thoroughly off the rails at this point.

Owen


> On May 31, 2022, at 23:05 , Steve Spence  wrote:
> 
> This is a well done video.  I hope they sort things out.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> Steve Spence
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: ARIN-PPML  On Behalf Of Ronald F. Guilmette
> Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 12:03 AM
> To: arin-ppml@arin.net
> Subject: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying
> 
> 
> Even though this relates to a whole different Regional Internet Registry, I 
> think that some (many) of you may be interested to watch this video and to 
> learn what's been going on of late down in the AFRINIC region.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32xCurWfJo4
> 
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Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying

2022-06-01 Thread Ronald F. Guilmette 
In message <3d9344a0-0680-7c4e-44ef-a23a79f71...@gmail.com>, 
Fernando Frediani  wrote:

>In my humble personal opinion...

I don't wish to be chastized for being off-topic here, but just briefly
my own view is that "cutthoat capitalism", for lack of a better term, and
total monetization of all IPv4 resources is likely the historically
inevitable final endpoint for all these resources, however I have a
strong preference for seeing things reach that inevitable endpoint as
a result of free, fair, and orderly democratic processes, rather than
via a concerted campaign of litigation, intimidation, and bribery, the
latter approach being repugnant to my personal sense of fair play generally.


Regards,
rfg
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Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying

2022-06-01 Thread William Herrin 
On Wed, Jun 1, 2022 at 12:30 AM Ronald F. Guilmette
 wrote:
> P.S.  Perhaps other RIRs may want to take this as a wake-up call and 
> incorporate
> some sort of prohibition against vote buying (or other such fancy footwork) 
> into
> their various applicable legal agreements.

ARIN has been thinking about this sort of problem for years. Their
solution is an interesting one - members have to regularly vote to
remain members. If they don't, they fall back to being "ordinary"
registrants and have a process with a waiting period that they have to
go through to become members and vote again. It's not yet tested but
in theory, the result is that it's too much work with too long a lead
time to successfully buy a vote from more than a few people vulnerable
to selling their vote.

Regards,
Bill Herrin


-- 
William Herrin
b...@herrin.us
https://bill.herrin.us/
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Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying

2022-06-01 Thread Fernando Frediani 
In my humble personal opinion this is the result and natural side-effect 
of stimulating things like IP Leasing from those who have a lot of spare 
IP Address to those who have been seeking it specially in the times of 
IPv4 exhaustion.


Some people, even those who are not directly involved in these type of 
business, belittle it and say that´s a normal thing, that we have to 
accept it, etc, etc, but it is not.
It is not by chance that this has never been an accepted practice to 
justify the need for resources to any RIR, because IP addresses are a 
shared owned resource and should not be available to be disposed at will 
by any resource holders.


Because of this distortion this said "normal thing" causes in the market 
it may have side effects like this and why everyone that cares about 
stability of this system should strongly repeal any kind of IP Leasing 
in order to not worse things even more in the ecosystem we are all 
involved. Today is in AfriNic, tomorrow may be at your nextdoor.


Regards
Fernando

On 01/06/2022 01:02, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote:
  
Even though this relates to a whole different Regional Internet Registry,

I think that some (many) of you may be interested to watch this video and
to learn what's been going on of late down in the AFRINIC region.
  
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32xCurWfJo4


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Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying

2022-06-01 Thread Mattapally Technologies 
+1

On Wednesday, June 1, 2022, Ronald F. Guilmette 
wrote:

> In message  namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
> Steve Spence  wrote:
>
> >This is a well done video.  I hope they sort things out.
>
> I agree on both counts.
>
>
> Regards,
> rfg
>
>
> P.S.  Perhaps other RIRs may want to take this as a wake-up call and
> incorporate
> some sort of prohibition against vote buying (or other such fancy
> footwork) into
> their various applicable legal agreements.
>
> Just a thought.  Maybe worth what you paid for it.
> ___
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Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying

2022-06-01 Thread Ronald F. Guilmette 
In message 
,
 
Steve Spence  wrote:

>This is a well done video.  I hope they sort things out.

I agree on both counts.


Regards,
rfg


P.S.  Perhaps other RIRs may want to take this as a wake-up call and incorporate
some sort of prohibition against vote buying (or other such fancy footwork) into
their various applicable legal agreements.

Just a thought.  Maybe worth what you paid for it.
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Re: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying

2022-06-01 Thread Steve Spence 
This is a well done video.  I hope they sort things out.



Regards

Steve Spence

-Original Message-
From: ARIN-PPML  On Behalf Of Ronald F. Guilmette
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2022 12:03 AM
To: arin-ppml@arin.net
Subject: [arin-ppml] AFRINIC vote buying

 
Even though this relates to a whole different Regional Internet Registry, I 
think that some (many) of you may be interested to watch this video and to 
learn what's been going on of late down in the AFRINIC region.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32xCurWfJo4

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