Re: [Arm-netbook] asus eeepc 7inch, modifying it to accept a pc card

[Christopher Havel]

The regulator does not come into play if you feed it directly with 5v. I
don't think the 3.3v pin is an allowable input, though... I remember that
the 5v pin can go either way like that, but I dunno about the 3.3v one.
Personally, if you're feeding it /regulated/ 5v -- desolder the regulator.
You're better off without it. It's a little four-pin SOT that looks like a
transistor with a tab pin... the specific part number is A1117.

Word to the wise on the $5-8 eBay USB soldering irons -- they work
remarkably well, but use ONLY with a power bank. There's a Scottish bloke
on YouTube calls himself "Big Clive Dot Com" -- he has a segment from 2016
or so on these irons, and he explains why I'm saying this far better than I
can explain it myself. Go watch the episode, it's here (~20min, and worth
every second) --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-8D5t6TJYU

...also...

If eBay is to be believed on part numbers here -- you should have an AUO
brand A070VW04 screen in that thing. If it's a stock screen, then according
to what I'm looking at, you don't need my display, you've already got one
that's 24bit TTL parallel.

Here's the datasheet I found --> http://www.taopanel.com/
auo/datasheet/A070VW04-V0.pdf

If youi WANT my display -- again, just pay shipping -- I can send it along.
I'll get model # and datasheet upon profession of interest. It'll give you
a few extra pixels, if you put it in, but you'll definitely need to cut
down that ginormous bezel to fit the thing -- it looks like they put a
seven inch display in a ten inch netbook, ha! (Insert inevitable
intelligence-comparison joke here.) I do remember that it was from a real
cheap pile-of-doodoo "eReader" tablet that my mother bought herself about
three months before Borders Books fell flat... Velocity Micro Cruz R101 is
the make and model. Usual horribly-cheap fare... it was probably outdated
when new. It never went above IIRC Android 2.something IIRC, had a 600MHz
or so VIA SoC that was probably overclocked and inevitably undercooled, and
was just all-around awful to use. It positively /reeked/ of cheap.

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 5:15 PM, Pičugins Arsenijs 
wrote:

> > Oh -- and for the keyboard -- look into the work done with custom
> keyboards
> > and a microcontroller called the "Teensy" -- the code should be
> compatible
> > with an Arduino Micro -- of which cheap clones can be had on eBay. To be
> > clear, you want the Arduino MICRO with the ATMEGA32U4 in it, and
> > specifically NOT the similar Arduino NANO with the ATMEGA328 in it. The
> > '32U4 part has on-chip USB so you can do USB-HID stuff with it.
>
> A Teensy could work, indeed. The issue is - the keyboard needs 24 (16+8)
> pins. Now that I think of it, we can use 32U4, it has 8 PCINT pins (that we
> can use for 8 rows) and there are 18 GPIOs remaining - enough to implement
> I2C (without the INT pin, though) or PS/2 - or, indeed, use USB.
>
> > I will warn
> > you that the cheap Arduino clone boards tend to use a particularly touchy
> > voltage regulator -- I've fried one of those boards that way, it's not
> > hard...
>
> Does the regulator come into play if we feed the ATMega32U4 from either 5V
> or 3.3V directly into VCC? I guess it doesn't.
>
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Re: [Arm-netbook] asus eeepc 7inch, modifying it to accept a pc card

[Pičugins Arsenijs]

> Oh -- and for the keyboard -- look into the work done with custom keyboards
> and a microcontroller called the "Teensy" -- the code should be compatible
> with an Arduino Micro -- of which cheap clones can be had on eBay. To be
> clear, you want the Arduino MICRO with the ATMEGA32U4 in it, and
> specifically NOT the similar Arduino NANO with the ATMEGA328 in it. The
> '32U4 part has on-chip USB so you can do USB-HID stuff with it. 

A Teensy could work, indeed. The issue is - the keyboard needs 24 (16+8) pins. 
Now that I think of it, we can use 32U4, it has 8 PCINT pins (that we can use 
for 8 rows) and there are 18 GPIOs remaining - enough to implement I2C (without 
the INT pin, though) or PS/2 - or, indeed, use USB.

> I will warn
> you that the cheap Arduino clone boards tend to use a particularly touchy
> voltage regulator -- I've fried one of those boards that way, it's not
> hard...

Does the regulator come into play if we feed the ATMega32U4 from either 5V or 
3.3V directly into VCC? I guess it doesn't.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] asus eeepc 7inch, modifying it to accept a pc card

[Christopher Havel]

I'll see what I can find on the screen... eBay does not reliably list model
#s but who knows.

Oh -- and for the keyboard -- look into the work done with custom keyboards
and a microcontroller called the "Teensy" -- the code should be compatible
with an Arduino Micro -- of which cheap clones can be had on eBay. To be
clear, you want the Arduino MICRO with the ATMEGA32U4 in it, and
specifically NOT the similar Arduino NANO with the ATMEGA328 in it. The
'32U4 part has on-chip USB so you can do USB-HID stuff with it. I will warn
you that the cheap Arduino clone boards tend to use a particularly touchy
voltage regulator -- I've fried one of those boards that way, it's not
hard...

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 4:58 PM, Pičugins Arsenijs 
wrote:

> > Quick post from my phone -- existing PCMCIA card cages from random
> laptops
> > are a dime-a-dozen on fleaBay, if you want to go that route. They would
> > likely need minor modifications to the keying, but that's hardly a
> > showstopper.
>
> True, but they have proprietary pinouts, can easily be as big as to be
> unwieldly, and they're more expensive - I just checked Taobao and a PCMCIA
> socket there is 72 cents, I'll get 10pcs.
>
> > Ron, did you see my previous email? I have an LCD panel that may work for
> > you, to replace the original in the Eee - but I won't know if it's
> > compatible, without that part number. If it *is* compatible, I'll ask you
> > to cover shipping costs and that's all.
>
> I can check it tomorrow, too - I'm not at my workplace right now. I also
> imagine you can look up eBay for "asus eee 701 panel" and find the model
> numbers.
>
> > I know /almost/ for a fact that my display will work with an EOMA68 card,
> > as it takes a parallel TTL input -- somewhere I think I have the
> datasheet
> > -- I just need your part number to know if they are physically
> > interchangeable without getting out the craft knife... I suspect the
> aspect
> > ratios are different, though -- mine is straight SVGA (800x600), and
> IIRC,
> > Eee PC netbooks were always widescreen -- either 800x480 or 1024x600...
>
> Right, EEE PC 701 has a 800x480 screen. So, I'm guessing that the display
> bezel mod will be necessary, too.
>
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Re: [Arm-netbook] asus eeepc 7inch, modifying it to accept a pc card

[Pičugins Arsenijs]

> Quick post from my phone -- existing PCMCIA card cages from random laptops
> are a dime-a-dozen on fleaBay, if you want to go that route. They would
> likely need minor modifications to the keying, but that's hardly a
> showstopper.

True, but they have proprietary pinouts, can easily be as big as to be 
unwieldly, and they're more expensive - I just checked Taobao and a PCMCIA 
socket there is 72 cents, I'll get 10pcs.

> Ron, did you see my previous email? I have an LCD panel that may work for
> you, to replace the original in the Eee - but I won't know if it's
> compatible, without that part number. If it *is* compatible, I'll ask you
> to cover shipping costs and that's all.

I can check it tomorrow, too - I'm not at my workplace right now. I also 
imagine you can look up eBay for "asus eee 701 panel" and find the model 
numbers.

> I know /almost/ for a fact that my display will work with an EOMA68 card,
> as it takes a parallel TTL input -- somewhere I think I have the datasheet
> -- I just need your part number to know if they are physically
> interchangeable without getting out the craft knife... I suspect the aspect
> ratios are different, though -- mine is straight SVGA (800x600), and IIRC,
> Eee PC netbooks were always widescreen -- either 800x480 or 1024x600...

Right, EEE PC 701 has a 800x480 screen. So, I'm guessing that the display bezel 
mod will be necessary, too. 

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Re: [Arm-netbook] asus eeepc 7inch, modifying it to accept a pc card

[Christopher Havel]

Quick post from my phone -- existing PCMCIA card cages from random laptops
are a dime-a-dozen on fleaBay, if you want to go that route. They would
likely need minor modifications to the keying, but that's hardly a
showstopper.

Ron, did you see my previous email? I have an LCD panel that may work for
you, to replace the original in the Eee - but I won't know if it's
compatible, without that part number. If it *is* compatible, I'll ask you
to cover shipping costs and that's all.

I know /almost/ for a fact that my display will work with an EOMA68 card,
as it takes a parallel TTL input -- somewhere I think I have the datasheet
-- I just need your part number to know if they are physically
interchangeable without getting out the craft knife... I suspect the aspect
ratios are different, though -- mine is straight SVGA (800x600), and IIRC,
Eee PC netbooks were always widescreen -- either 800x480 or 1024x600...

On Feb 11, 2018 4:40 PM, "Pičugins Arsenijs"  wrote:

> > This post is about modifying an asus eeepc 7inch notebook into accepting
> > a pc card. You are invite to contribute.
>
> Following up on the "RK3399" email:
>
> > For your information, I am in a censorship dispute with lkcl. I do
> > not know what he will come up with. Maybe some or all of my
> > posts will be stopped.
>
> I'm going to get an EEEoma Wiki up in the following week and start
> documenting everything there; if you end up losing posting privileges, feel
> free to email me directly.
>
> > I do not follow lkcl's opposition on this.
>
> He's trying to make sure that the resulting design is safe and 1) won't
> ruin reputation of EOMA68 2) will be a good reference design for other
> designers that want to make EOMA68-compatible things, so that their designs
> won't ruin the EOMA68 reputation.
>
> > It is a weller sp 40l 40w.
>
> It seems to have a wide tip, so I'm wondering if it's suitable for
> soldering things like a 0.8-pitch connector... We'll see. At worst, you can
> get a working soldering iron for $5 from China, and a set of good tips for
> $5 more.
>
> > In case I did not mention it before. I have a raspberry pi 0 and
> > a beaglebone black revision c if that could be useful.
>
> Those could be useful for testing, I think.
>
> > I still have the asus eeepc's mainboard.
>
> That's great =) So we likely can harvest a couple of chips from it if
> necessary.
>
> > The pocketchip's keyboard is an i2c keyboard. Is the asus
> > eeepc's keyboard also an i2c keyboard?
>
> The pocketchip's keyboard, just like the EEE PC keyboard, is not I2C by
> itself - it's a key matrix, and there's usually a controller that connects
> to this key matrix. In PocketCHIP's case, it talks I2C - in case of EEE PC,
> that controller is a part of Embedded Controller on the EEE PC mainboard
> (which controls a whole load of  functions), so we're making our own
> controller by taking a microcontroller, putting it on a board with a 28-pin
> connector and writing a firmware for it.
>
> > Instead of
> > modifying the asus eeepc's keyboard into an usb
> > keyboard, what about i2c connecting the keyboard to
> > the pc card?
>
> Either that, or use PS2 - since we likely will have a PS2-USB chip anyway
> (for the touchpad). The benefit of using PS/2 is that we won't need to
> write our own kernel driver - however, we will need to find a way to
> reliably source PS2-UAB converter chips, or converter boards.
>
> > To my knowledge you can use the
> > beaglebone black revision c to test i2c devices.
>
> You can also use the Pi Zero for the same task, if I understand you
> correctly (just FYI).
>
> > I have this forestalled remark. I would prefer not to cut
> > in the asus eeepc's cabinet. If I do it wrongly, I do not have
> > another cabinet.
>
> Hmm. That's tricky - I was planning to suggest the "cutting" approach, but
> I don't know of a good way to cut into the cabinet so that it's easy and
> mistake-proof. Thankfully, I have 2 spare cases to experiment with, and I
> have some ideas =)
>
> > Instead at the bottom of the asus eeepc there is a removable
> > plate. There is a balk which likely can be removed. I would
> > prefer to insert the pc card by that plate.
>
> I'll measure it and see if it's suitable - that is, if we can even insert
> the card. I can't yet imagine how it would work, but I will think about it.
> (the space inside the EEE case is quite limited, so there's only so many
> ways to keep the card in).
>
> > I have not been able to find something like the pcmcia/eoma
> > 68 breakout board. Should we not find a shop to buy
> > one?
>
> I haven't yet found PCMCIA breakouts (or EOMA68 breakouts, for that
> matter), so it's not a commodity item, and I'm guessing that places that
> have them will have it at high prices, just because it's not that popular.
> Lkcl has breakouts listed on Crowdsupply, but I imagine there's some time
> until they will be manufactured and available. Until that, we can either
> work on other tasks - and, later on, 

Re: [Arm-netbook] asus eeepc 7inch, modifying it to accept a pc card

[Pičugins Arsenijs]

> This post is about modifying an asus eeepc 7inch notebook into accepting
> a pc card. You are invite to contribute.

Following up on the "RK3399" email:

> For your information, I am in a censorship dispute with lkcl. I do
> not know what he will come up with. Maybe some or all of my
> posts will be stopped.

I'm going to get an EEEoma Wiki up in the following week and start documenting 
everything there; if you end up losing posting privileges, feel free to email 
me directly.

> I do not follow lkcl's opposition on this.

He's trying to make sure that the resulting design is safe and 1) won't ruin 
reputation of EOMA68 2) will be a good reference design for other designers 
that want to make EOMA68-compatible things, so that their designs won't ruin 
the EOMA68 reputation.

> It is a weller sp 40l 40w.

It seems to have a wide tip, so I'm wondering if it's suitable for soldering 
things like a 0.8-pitch connector... We'll see. At worst, you can get a working 
soldering iron for $5 from China, and a set of good tips for $5 more.

> In case I did not mention it before. I have a raspberry pi 0 and
> a beaglebone black revision c if that could be useful.

Those could be useful for testing, I think.

> I still have the asus eeepc's mainboard.

That's great =) So we likely can harvest a couple of chips from it if necessary.

> The pocketchip's keyboard is an i2c keyboard. Is the asus
> eeepc's keyboard also an i2c keyboard?

The pocketchip's keyboard, just like the EEE PC keyboard, is not I2C by itself 
- it's a key matrix, and there's usually a controller that connects to this key 
matrix. In PocketCHIP's case, it talks I2C - in case of EEE PC, that controller 
is a part of Embedded Controller on the EEE PC mainboard (which controls a 
whole load of  functions), so we're making our own controller by taking a 
microcontroller, putting it on a board with a 28-pin connector and writing a 
firmware for it.

> Instead of
> modifying the asus eeepc's keyboard into an usb
> keyboard, what about i2c connecting the keyboard to 
> the pc card? 

Either that, or use PS2 - since we likely will have a PS2-USB chip anyway (for 
the touchpad). The benefit of using PS/2 is that we won't need to write our own 
kernel driver - however, we will need to find a way to reliably source PS2-UAB 
converter chips, or converter boards.

> To my knowledge you can use the 
> beaglebone black revision c to test i2c devices.

You can also use the Pi Zero for the same task, if I understand you correctly 
(just FYI).

> I have this forestalled remark. I would prefer not to cut
> in the asus eeepc's cabinet. If I do it wrongly, I do not have
> another cabinet.

Hmm. That's tricky - I was planning to suggest the "cutting" approach, but I 
don't know of a good way to cut into the cabinet so that it's easy and 
mistake-proof. Thankfully, I have 2 spare cases to experiment with, and I have 
some ideas =)

> Instead at the bottom of the asus eeepc there is a removable
> plate. There is a balk which likely can be removed. I would
> prefer to insert the pc card by that plate.

I'll measure it and see if it's suitable - that is, if we can even insert the 
card. I can't yet imagine how it would work, but I will think about it. (the 
space inside the EEE case is quite limited, so there's only so many ways to 
keep the card in).

> I have not been able to find something like the pcmcia/eoma
> 68 breakout board. Should we not find a shop to buy
> one?

I haven't yet found PCMCIA breakouts (or EOMA68 breakouts, for that matter), so 
it's not a commodity item, and I'm guessing that places that have them will 
have it at high prices, just because it's not that popular. Lkcl has breakouts 
listed on Crowdsupply, but I imagine there's some time until they will be 
manufactured and available. Until that, we can either work on other tasks - 
and, later on, we can design our own breakouts if it proves necessary.

Cheers!
Arsenijs

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Re: [Arm-netbook] asus eeepc 7inch, modifying it to accept a pc card

[Christopher Havel]

Ron, it occurs to me that I may have something in my junk bin for you. Can
you get me the model # of the LCD panel itself in that system? You'll have
to take the lid apart... should be a bunch of mumbo-jumbo on the back of
the panel in large letters.

If you're not sure -- host a picture of the label on one of those many
image-hosting sites out there, and post up the link here. I'll know it when
I see it.
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[Arm-netbook] asus eeepc 7inch, modifying it to accept a pc card

[ronwirring]

This post is about modifying an asus eeepc 7inch notebook into accepting
a pc card. You are invite to contribute.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] RK3399

[ronwirring]

 Original Message 
From: Pičugins Arsenijs
Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk
To: "arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk" 
Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] RK3399
Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2018 13:38:40 +0200

For your information, I am in a censorship dispute with lkcl. I do
not know what he will come up with. Maybe some or all of my
posts will be stopped.

> Yep, thankfully, the laptop will likely take a while anyway. What I'd 
> personally be interested in is making it all work before the start of next 
> EOMA crowdfunding, or maybe during it (so that the crowdfunding gets some 
> more publicity and is taken even more seriously).

When the pc card is being shipped there will be no cabinet
or a 15inch notebook available in terms of cabinets with
a display.
I agree the more different cabinet sizes present, even if
modified computer cabinets, the better. I do not 
follow lkcl's opposition on this.

> I'm mostly interested in desktop sharing from my side, so that I can show how 
> to draw a simple board. No other requirements from your side, webcam 
> definitely not needed (though having a voice channel would be great). If 
> you're interested, I can stream my desktop to something like Twitch, so that 
> you can view it (and whoever else wants to).

Yes.

> Great! Once we'll have first boards (say, keyboard matrix), we might require 
> some more tools - but nothing expensive or complicated. Do you have a photo 
> of your soldering iron somewhere (maybe a similar photo on the internet) - 
> just to make sure it's the right one for the job?

It is a weller sp 40l 40w.
In case I did not mention it before. I have a raspberry pi 0 and
a beaglebone black revision c if that could be useful.

> I've measured connectors on my boards, and it looks like the right one. Worst 
> case - I can desolder a connector from my boards and mail it to you. Notes: 
> from these 28 pins, one is GND (for some reason) and one is NC (not 
> connected), and two pairs of pins are in parallel. So, we'll need a 
> microcontroller with 24 free GPIOs, or a cheap I2C IO expander added. Seeing 
> how the keyboard is a 16x8 matrix, a GPIO expander could fit very well 
> (alternatively, we could copy whatever solution is used in some kind of 
> popular DIY keyboards, provided we can find one that suits the row/column 
> count).

I will get the ribbonconnector. I still have the asus eeepc's mainboard.

The pocketchip's keyboard is an i2c keyboard. Is the asus
eeepc's keyboard also an i2c keyboard?
Lkcl has said, the pc card supports i2c. Instead of
modifying the asus eeepc's keyboard into an usb
keyboard, what about i2c connecting the keyboard to 
the pc card? To my knowledge you can use the 
beaglebone black revision c to test i2c devices.
I found a video on youtube on the matter.

I have this forestalled remark. I would prefer not to cut
in the asus eeepc's cabinet. If I do it wrongly, I do not have
another cabinet.
Instead at the bottom of the asus eeepc there is a removable
plate. There is a balk which likely can be removed. I would
prefer to insert the pc card by that plate.

I have not been able to find something like the pcmcia/eoma
68 breakout board. Should we not find a shop to buy
one?

I will start a new post named 'asus eeepc 7inch, modifying
it to accept a pc card' for further postings.


> bottom line: please do NOT design this circuit without public
> consultation and without my FINAL approval.

Thank you for your warning. And participation.

> arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk
> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
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Re: [Arm-netbook] sifive sells a riscv cpu mainboard

[Jonathan Neuschäfer]

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 12:18:21PM -0500, ronwirr...@safe-mail.net wrote:
>  Original Message 
> From: Jonathan Neuschäfer
> Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk
> To: Eco-Conscious Computing 
> Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] sifive sells a riscv cpu mainboard
> Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2018 00:40:03 +0100
> 
> > On Mon, Feb 05, 2018 at 03:05:03PM -0500, ronwirr...@safe-mail.net wrote:
[...]
> > > Can you tell if the mainboard is free software foundation
> > > compliant?
> > 
> > As far as I understand, yes.
> 
> Then I got the video wrong. I thought his listing of not open
> source devices about the riscv mainboard would negate
> fsf compliance.

I'm not an expert on FSF compliance (by which you mean compliance to the
criteria of FSF's RYF program, I assume), but the Hifive Unleashed is
better on the Hardware freedom side than any computer that was certified
as "Respects Your Freedom" so far, and (AFAIK) not worse on the software
freedom side.

Whether SiFive (or anyone else) will request RYF certification for the
Hifive Unleased is a separate question, that I cannot answer.

> > No, MALI is (AFAIK) not available as a separate chip, so you can't put
> > it on a board if the SoC doesn't already have it.
> 
> I did not know. Apparently you then cannot buy a bag of
> mali devices?

That's right. You can buy a bag of devices that contain MALI (e.g.
ARM-based SoCs from Allwinner or some other vendors), but not a bag of
devices that contain *only* MALI (i.e. dedicated MALI GPUs).

[ I guess you *could* run a SoC with MALI in it in a PCIe target mode
  and control the MALI remotely over PCIe, and thus use the SoC as sort
  of a "remote MALI" chip, but I guess that's very much besides the
  point. ]


Jonathan Neuschäfer
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Re: [Arm-netbook] sifive sells a riscv cpu mainboard

[ronwirring]

 Original Message 
From: Jonathan Neuschäfer
Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk
To: Eco-Conscious Computing 
Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] sifive sells a riscv cpu mainboard
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2018 00:40:03 +0100

> On Mon, Feb 05, 2018 at 03:05:03PM -0500, ronwirr...@safe-mail.net wrote:
> >  Original Message 
> > From: Jonathan Neuschäfer
> > Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk
> > To: Eco-Conscious Computing 
> > Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] sifive sells a riscv cpu mainboard
> > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 18:49:36 +0100
> > 
> > > On Mon, Feb 05, 2018 at 12:39:57PM -0500, ronwirr...@safe-mail.net wrote:

> > Can you tell if the mainboard is free software foundation
> > compliant?
> 
> As far as I understand, yes.

Then I got the video wrong. I thought his listing of not open
source devices about the riscv mainboard would negate
fsf compliance.

> No, MALI is (AFAIK) not available as a separate chip, so you can't put
> it on a board if the SoC doesn't already have it.

I did not know. Apparently you then cannot buy a bag of
mali devices?

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Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer

[ronwirring]

 Original Message 
From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 
Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk
To: Eco-Conscious Computing 
Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2018 09:21:27 +

> On Tuesday, February 6, 2018, Jean Flamelle  wrote:
> 
> > On 2/5/18, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton  wrote:
> > > On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 5:28 PM,   wrote:

> he means to ask Luke OR ANY MEMBER

Yes. In case lkcl not answering and there are posts on the pyra
computer in the arm-netbook Archives, someone else could
tell me.

> Just my two cents, but this has gotten WAY off topic... amusing as that
> is for me, its not the purpose of this mailing list... and I don't think
> it is very helpful.

I wrote 'Can lkcl' not 'arm-netbooks'. That was enough to ignite a
request from lkcl to change the phrasing of future posts from me.
I could have accepted the request. I did not because I
considered my phrasing short, effective and direct. I do not
see, why lkcl should limit my free speech on such a minor thing.
I should not have gotten the request in the first place.

Lkcl, is my phrasing that annoying or offensive or confusing
to you that you believe it is fine to ask me to limit my free
speech? Make your argument.

On this email list there is at least one person who dances with
profanities. I do not know if there is a rule about that. There
should be. I have not corrected that person for such
phrasings. For two reasons. It happens rather seldom.
And considering how it would limit the persons free
speech I refrained.




> reminder ron: i set the rules here, you do not. that is my role as lead,

That is correct. How you set your rules and govern them shows
people how fit you are on this task.

> and you are free to ignore those rules if you are also happy to accept the
> consequence that i am free to put you into moderation mode (again).

I react to arguments not the fact that I can get excluded.

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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> ---
> crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
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