[Arm-netbook] manufacturing a 7inch netbook housing for the pc card
This question must be looked upon as an overall one. Not a concrete one. It is more about if you know about the economics of these small netbooks. https://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/07/23/india.thirty.five.dollar.laptop/index.html I do not know if this computer got on the market. It cannot be done for 35usd without subsidies? Let us say we have a series of pc cards. Having different performances. Various prices. According to lkcl the cheapest would be about 30usd. On https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Cheap-Via-8880-7-inch-Android_60478978572.html there is a 7 inch netbook for sale. It appears to be a common computer. Prices are about 50usd. I would want to compare the computer to the one laptop per child. What magnitude of order would you have to place at the manufacturer, getting him to redesign the cabinet of the https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Cheap-Via-8880-7-inch-Android_60478978572.html netbook to become a pc card housing? What would he be able to sell the pc card housing netbook for? ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
Regarding moderator approval. I ask you to display this email on the emailing list. Thereby enabling transparency and ensuring that subscribers get to know my arguments. Not doing so I will hold against you. > you seem to believe that you have the right to do whatever you want: you > don't. > every time i have asked you to respect my authority you have ducked > or ignored the question. I think you are as happened before exaggerating, and misrepresenting what previous disputes we have had. About what follows I have not searched for documentation in previous posts and emails. Because I am not going to do the effort. First one. On another forum I made some critical posts about the pc card crowdfunding. I did so because it can be beneficial for the owner of a project to get more angles on his work and everyone should be scrutinized. My main critique was including the pc card laptop housing in a crowdfunding. My point of view was that for a one person enterprise that would be to big a task. It would require a frictionless course. It turned out I was right. No usable parts have been manufactured so far? Instead I would have concentrated on getting more people to buy the pc card. If lkcl wanted to shut me up or not, I do not know. He could not. It was not his forum. Lkcl accused me of sabotaging the crowdfunding. Said I could make the crowdfunding fail. An undocumented claim and heavily questionable, which I told him. Without being obligated to, I told lkcl I would stop further postings, should he want me to. I had made my points known. Second one. When posting emails on the arm netbook emailing list, I wanted to keep all previous posts unedited in my next post. Lkcl told me, that is not how it is done. And he explained how I should edit posts and importantly why I should edit. One argument was, he had to read a high number of emails and edited posts were time saving for him. I have to accept that my english writing skills are limited. My answer to him may have been unclear. The content of my answering post was, every email list member should decide for himself how to edit a post. But I accepted his arguments about editing posts and told him I would concur. Then lkcl misread my post. Believing I would not concur. Therefore lkcl told me, I had to make a specific declaration about complying to the rules about posting. Having done nothing wrong and perceiving lkcl's request as unnecessarily cornering, I wrote in a post, that he had misread my post and he could take any action he should want to. Then I got on the moderation approval list. To my knowledge from that point none of my postings have not complied to rules about posting. At some point, not on me request, I got off the moderator list. Third one. In a post I mentioned lkcl in third person. I was not aware it would be a rude action. Because I am addressing a bunch of people. When lkcl asked me to not do so, I explained why I had phrased the sentence like I did. To me the matter was insignificant. And I saw no reason to alter my phrasing. It resulted in lkcl escalating the matter to become relevant for the moderator approval list. Looking back on lkcl's outbursting tendencies I did not pay any attention to it. Even more because lkcl dances with profanities. Which I do not. All this in order to show that I do not do whatever I want. Some times I do not listen. I mentioned my free speech in a post. It resulted in several rubbish comments. I was not referring to any legal system. I wanted to state my point of view on free speech in a forum or on an emailing list. Lkcl, since you are in favor of straightening things out and not dodge, answer these questions about your emailing list: Should your emailing list aspire to grand the highest level of free speech? Do you adhere to the principle of equal matters must be dealt with equally? Do you adhere to the principle of proportionality? Because you own this emailing list, you can do whatever you want. I am not questioning that. The question is should you do whatever you want? How you manage your email list tells a tale about you. If your answer to my 3 questions are no, then I have misread you as a person and you do not have to unsubscribe me. I do it myself. When I wrote 'Has lkcl' you managed to infringe on all 3 principles. There are no strong reasons, other than your vanity, to prohibit such phrasing. I cannot write third person. You write profanities, masked or not. If using third person is an infraction, it is a minor. Calling in the moderator approval list is an overreaction. Part 2. Lkcl has thrown into the air that I may be infringing on one or more laws and maybe a license or certification. I have no overview on this matter. > do you, ron wirring, accept that i am the SOLE EXCLUSIVE Copyright > Holder of the EOMA68 Standard? > please answer simply yes or no. I am not going to answer yes or no until I know what I am answering yes or no to. First I want to say, I have never read the standards.
Re: [Arm-netbook] asus eeepc 7inch, modifying it to accept a pc card
Original Message From: Pičugins Arsenijs Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] asus eeepc 7inch, modifying it to accept a pc card Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2018 23:40:08 +0200 > It seems to have a wide tip, so I'm wondering if it's suitable for soldering > things like a 0.8-pitch connector... It has a swappable solder iron head. The solder iron head I have looks like a screwdriver. It is about 3mm wide. I have bought another solder iron head. Shaped like a pencil. > The pocketchip's keyboard, just like the EEE PC keyboard, is not I2C by itself I understand now. A controller is required. For i2c or usb. > I have an LCD panel that may work for > you I think the plan is to use the display the computer came with. I would want to know which display model it is I have. I have refrained from dismantling the display part because it was already difficult to remove the mainboard. The cabinet got some nicks. > checked Taobao and a PCMCIA socket there Can you write a link? > I find the idea to turn an asus eeepc 7inch notebook into an EOMA68 > housing very interesting Yes, that should have been the email's subject but we are not starting a new post because of that. > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] asus eeepc 7inch, modifying it to accept a pc card
This post is about modifying an asus eeepc 7inch notebook into accepting a pc card. You are invite to contribute. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] RK3399
Original Message From: Pičugins Arsenijs Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: "arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk" Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] RK3399 Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2018 13:38:40 +0200 For your information, I am in a censorship dispute with lkcl. I do not know what he will come up with. Maybe some or all of my posts will be stopped. > Yep, thankfully, the laptop will likely take a while anyway. What I'd > personally be interested in is making it all work before the start of next > EOMA crowdfunding, or maybe during it (so that the crowdfunding gets some > more publicity and is taken even more seriously). When the pc card is being shipped there will be no cabinet or a 15inch notebook available in terms of cabinets with a display. I agree the more different cabinet sizes present, even if modified computer cabinets, the better. I do not follow lkcl's opposition on this. > I'm mostly interested in desktop sharing from my side, so that I can show how > to draw a simple board. No other requirements from your side, webcam > definitely not needed (though having a voice channel would be great). If > you're interested, I can stream my desktop to something like Twitch, so that > you can view it (and whoever else wants to). Yes. > Great! Once we'll have first boards (say, keyboard matrix), we might require > some more tools - but nothing expensive or complicated. Do you have a photo > of your soldering iron somewhere (maybe a similar photo on the internet) - > just to make sure it's the right one for the job? It is a weller sp 40l 40w. In case I did not mention it before. I have a raspberry pi 0 and a beaglebone black revision c if that could be useful. > I've measured connectors on my boards, and it looks like the right one. Worst > case - I can desolder a connector from my boards and mail it to you. Notes: > from these 28 pins, one is GND (for some reason) and one is NC (not > connected), and two pairs of pins are in parallel. So, we'll need a > microcontroller with 24 free GPIOs, or a cheap I2C IO expander added. Seeing > how the keyboard is a 16x8 matrix, a GPIO expander could fit very well > (alternatively, we could copy whatever solution is used in some kind of > popular DIY keyboards, provided we can find one that suits the row/column > count). I will get the ribbonconnector. I still have the asus eeepc's mainboard. The pocketchip's keyboard is an i2c keyboard. Is the asus eeepc's keyboard also an i2c keyboard? Lkcl has said, the pc card supports i2c. Instead of modifying the asus eeepc's keyboard into an usb keyboard, what about i2c connecting the keyboard to the pc card? To my knowledge you can use the beaglebone black revision c to test i2c devices. I found a video on youtube on the matter. I have this forestalled remark. I would prefer not to cut in the asus eeepc's cabinet. If I do it wrongly, I do not have another cabinet. Instead at the bottom of the asus eeepc there is a removable plate. There is a balk which likely can be removed. I would prefer to insert the pc card by that plate. I have not been able to find something like the pcmcia/eoma 68 breakout board. Should we not find a shop to buy one? I will start a new post named 'asus eeepc 7inch, modifying it to accept a pc card' for further postings. > bottom line: please do NOT design this circuit without public > consultation and without my FINAL approval. Thank you for your warning. And participation. > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] sifive sells a riscv cpu mainboard
Original Message From: Jonathan Neuschäfer Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] sifive sells a riscv cpu mainboard Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2018 00:40:03 +0100 > On Mon, Feb 05, 2018 at 03:05:03PM -0500, ronwirr...@safe-mail.net wrote: > > Original Message > > From: Jonathan Neuschäfer > > Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk > > To: Eco-Conscious Computing > > Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] sifive sells a riscv cpu mainboard > > Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 18:49:36 +0100 > > > > > On Mon, Feb 05, 2018 at 12:39:57PM -0500, ronwirr...@safe-mail.net wrote: > > Can you tell if the mainboard is free software foundation > > compliant? > > As far as I understand, yes. Then I got the video wrong. I thought his listing of not open source devices about the riscv mainboard would negate fsf compliance. > No, MALI is (AFAIK) not available as a separate chip, so you can't put > it on a board if the SoC doesn't already have it. I did not know. Apparently you then cannot buy a bag of mali devices? > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
Original Message From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2018 09:21:27 + > On Tuesday, February 6, 2018, Jean Flamelle wrote: > > > On 2/5/18, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > > > On Mon, Feb 5, 2018 at 5:28 PM, wrote: > he means to ask Luke OR ANY MEMBER Yes. In case lkcl not answering and there are posts on the pyra computer in the arm-netbook Archives, someone else could tell me. > Just my two cents, but this has gotten WAY off topic... amusing as that > is for me, its not the purpose of this mailing list... and I don't think > it is very helpful. I wrote 'Can lkcl' not 'arm-netbooks'. That was enough to ignite a request from lkcl to change the phrasing of future posts from me. I could have accepted the request. I did not because I considered my phrasing short, effective and direct. I do not see, why lkcl should limit my free speech on such a minor thing. I should not have gotten the request in the first place. Lkcl, is my phrasing that annoying or offensive or confusing to you that you believe it is fine to ask me to limit my free speech? Make your argument. On this email list there is at least one person who dances with profanities. I do not know if there is a rule about that. There should be. I have not corrected that person for such phrasings. For two reasons. It happens rather seldom. And considering how it would limit the persons free speech I refrained. > reminder ron: i set the rules here, you do not. that is my role as lead, That is correct. How you set your rules and govern them shows people how fit you are on this task. > and you are free to ignore those rules if you are also happy to accept the > consequence that i am free to put you into moderation mode (again). I react to arguments not the fact that I can get excluded. > > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk > > > > -- > --- > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] sifive sells a riscv cpu mainboard
Original Message From: Jonathan Neuschäfer Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] sifive sells a riscv cpu mainboard Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 18:49:36 +0100 > On Mon, Feb 05, 2018 at 12:39:57PM -0500, ronwirr...@safe-mail.net wrote: > > Sifive has a mainboard for sale with a running riscv cpu. Many > > of the devices on the mainboard require non libre software. > > > > https://youtu.be/LAA1B5QNbO8?t=1507 > > What do you mean exactly? I do not know exactly what I mean. Go to 31.20 in the video to hear what sifive means. Can you tell if the mainboard is free software foundation compliant? If that is the case, I understood the video wrongly. I got the impression the mainboard requires non libre software to run. Software which makes the mainboard not free software foundation compliant. At 43.39 in the video they say, they are using an external non libre software graphics card. If we got all of the source code for one of the mali gpu's, could the aforementioned gpu then be used on a riscv mainboard? Or in general, can you place a mali gpu on a riscv mainboard? > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] sifive sells a riscv cpu mainboard
Sifive has a mainboard for sale with a running riscv cpu. Many of the devices on the mainboard require non libre software. https://youtu.be/LAA1B5QNbO8?t=1507 ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
Original Message From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 23:09:31 + > On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 9:38 PM, wrote: > they didn't like the modular concept :) they also really didn't like > the standard. > > plus, the form-factor is a bit small to fit a 5x54x90 card and > associated socket. About the pyra's computer devices, do we know how well suited they are to get connected to an eoma pc card? My thought was to have a modified part of the pyra's cabinet to enable inserting an eoma pc card. > >> ron can i ask you the favour of not referring to me in the 3rd > >> person? i'm right here!!! If I write: Lkcl, can you ... Then I want you to answer. If I write: Can lkcl ... Then all on the email list may answer. > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer
Original Message From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] pyra computer Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 05:51:57 + > On Tue, Jan 23, 2018 at 9:46 PM, wrote: > yes lkcl has been in touch with the pyra team. Anything to report? > ron can i ask you the favour of not referring to me in the 3rd > person? i'm right here!!! If I write lkcl, I ask all persons on the email list. > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] pyra computer
https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/getting-closer.82436/ I cannot remember if I previously have posted about the pyra computer. You can notice some of the same problems you see about the pc card. It seems the pyra's cabinet has been made. The cabinet has no pc card port. Has lkcl been in contact with pyra? The cabinet has no pc card slot. Is the pyra's cabinet relevant to the pc card? ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] the potato mainboard
https://www.heise.de/make/meldung/Nicht-ganz-frei-Libre-Computer-3946967.html ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] RK3399
> Pičugins Arsenijs Thank you for your email. > computer card or a RK3399 mainboard If the pc card gets shipped, then I got one. I want to frame this enterprise a bit more. It must be a hobby thing. You are not obliged to anything and you can skip any time you want. I will not hold it against you. One reason why I will not put large money into it. That way it is not a big deal if we do not succeed. We should do without time frames. Shipping the pc card appears to lay months ahead. > would you be interested in a videocall > of some sorts? On forums I prefer to stay anonymous. If things turn ugly I can walk away. If required can we get by using an irc or another messenger? > drawing the PCB, I can show you > the basics of KiCad For preparation, maybe you could state some links I should have a look on? I should mention I have a solder iron and a multimeter. About my comments on the devices I wanted to express that I prefer less complicated solutions. I was not telling you what solution to select. > important to remember that we'll > eventually need battery power, > and plan it in from the beginning Yes. The asus eee pc 4g's keyboard is model v072462ak1 revision 1.0 gr. The ribbon has 28 wires and the ribbon is 28mm wide. On ebay I have found this ribbon connector https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/gkgAAOSwZB9Z-YIL/s-l1600.jpg. Should I get one? > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] RK3399
Original Message From: Pičugins Arsenijs Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: "arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk" Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] RK3399 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 18:47:02 +0200 > Pičugins Arsenijs Thank you for your email. There are a lot of pieces of information about this task. In this email I may forget to address some of them. I wanted a small eoma pc card notebook. That is why I obtained the asus 7inch eee pc 4g. When I got the notebook, I took out the mainboard because I wanted to see how much space is in the cabinet. As I mentioned, I wanted to convert the notebook to an eoma pc card notebook. Because shipping of the pc card keeps being delayed I have not done more about it. I mentioned the rk3399 mainboard, because it maybe would be an option if the pc card does not get made. > If you're ready to work for this Yes, but we have to set some references. I am not skilled on electronics. I will have to move on instructions. Costs may spiral. I am not going to accept that. If I am asked to buy a 100usd device, I will answer no. If I am asked to buy a 50usd device, I will likely answer no. I will comment briefly on what you wrote about various computer devices. > The screen is RGBTTL, which is the same interface >that an EOMA68 card has If we in a low priced way can get to use the build in display, that is what we should do. I mentioned getting a 7inch hdmi display if that was the only workable solution. My notebook is an asus 7inch eee pc 4g. I do not know the precise name of the build in display. Camera is not important. We will use the camera as an usb camera. Else we will not use it. About wifi card, I have small usb ar9271 wifi cards. They work on debian 9 64bit main. Saying the source software is available. We should use an usb ar9271 wifi card. About sound. I have an usb soundcard. It works on debian 9 64bit main. Saying the device's source software is available. We should use an usb soundcard. About sdcard reader. I have usb sdcard readers. They work on debian 9 64bit main. Saying the devices' source software is available. We should use an usb sdcard reader. About storage. My information is, the pc card will have an sdcard port on the pc card for storage. > matrix-to-USB converters are both available Turning the keyboard into an usb keyboard is an important move. I suggest we make turning the notebook's keyboard into an usb keyboard our first step. About a battery supplying power. I suggest we wait until we have a notebook, which will run on a power supply. > maybe email directly Maybe this modification of a notebook is of interest for other people. We should use this email list. > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] RK3399
Original Message From: Christopher Havel Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Linux on small ARM machines Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] RK3399 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2018 22:49:12 -0500 > BTW -- not *everything* is nearly as complex as Luke would have you > believe. If I ask about how to build a libre software mainboard into the cabinet of a common notebook, lkcl gets rather hectic on rebuffing such option. Some of his arguments I accept. Others I do not. One lkcl argument is, I should not spend thousands of usd on making an attempt with an uncertain outcome. I agree on that. For now I have spent 50usd on getting an asus 7inch eeepc. I like the size of it. It has a full keyboard. It is bulky. Therefore more likely to have space for building in another mainboard. Lkcl says, should I succeed in building one, only I would benefit. I disagree. I would tell others how to make a similar computer, should they want to. Then lkcl has this argument about reverse engineering a lot of computer devices. I do not understand it. Apart from the display all devices should be usb. Sound, touchpad, keyboard, ethernet, wifi, storage. Display should be hdmi. Rather I believe getting a battery and powersupply solution would be difficult. I would also like to make a libre software computer looking like the pocketchip. I have bought this generic 6usd keyboard. https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51q2r5Jvu2L.jpg I do not like the feel of the keys. Apart from that it is adequate sized. The keyboard does not work via usb wire. It would require the keyboard to get modified. > Keyboards are invariably a passive switch matrix (look it up if you don't > know About the asus eeepc's keyboard. I have. I am not clever enough. Lowpriced on ebay I found an ATMEGA328P-PU Microcontroller. A GPIO kit Extension Board Adapter Breadboard. A flat cable Ribbon connector socket 30pin 1.0mm Pitch. Apparently using a raspberry pi, you should be able to program the microcontroller. How to make the keyboard's matrix, I do not know. > Touchpads are almost always either USB or PS/2 What I have been told. > It's the screen and battery interfaces that are going to get you This rk3399 mainboard https://www.cnx-software.com/2016/12/05/firefly-rk3399-rockchip-rk3399-development-board-launched-on-kickstarter-for-139-and-up/ has a hdmi port. What should be the difficulty in connecting the mainboard to a hdmi display? > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] RK3399
Original Message From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] RK3399 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2018 16:17:18 + > sure... i will however need sponsorship to cover the cost in time and My phrasing was unclear. My question was not about an eoma pc card. For sale are rk3399 mainboards. I wanted to know if you could take one of them and put it into a common notebook cabinet and get the computer to work, assuming you are able to get the computer's devices connected. > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] RK3399
Original Message From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] RK3399 Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2018 20:26:32 + > use the rk3399 in a libre fashion? Can you make a fsf compliant notebook based on the rk3399 mainboards I have seen for sale? All libre software is available except the gpu one? > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 / Libre RISC-V team financing
Original Message From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Linux on small ARM machines Subject: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 / Libre RISC-V team financing Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 09:59:04 + > i find sources of funds Have you considered talking to http://www.lowrisc.org/? I do not think they have money. Maybe lowrisc can direct you to paid tasks. > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] will orange pi zero run libre version of freedombox?
http://www.orangepi.org/orangepizero/ One or more of the freedombox images are libre software? Is there a libre software version of freedombox, which will run on the orange pi 0? Thank you. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] ccc make your own cpu
https://youtu.be/JlshnJjsw8E?t=2185 ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 / Libre RISC-V team financing
Displaying a form of payment is not good enough. Lkcl should make a website. It should show which amount of money he wants monthly and how much people have paid a given month. It should list several forms of payments. Including paypal. I am not going to register about a new service in order to get to pay. As long as lkcl gets the monthly amount he is asking for, I will pay for the next month. One month lkcl does not get the amount he asks for, I stop my payments. Lkcl not getting the amount he is asking for, tell me people are not interested in paying more in order to get their items. Then I say lkcl should stop production of the pc card, no refunds and negotiate a solution regarding those who wanted a laptop. > > got one https://liberapay.com/~27466/widgets/ > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 / Libre RISC-V team financing
Original Message From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Linux on small ARM machines Subject: [Arm-netbook] EOMA68 / Libre RISC-V team financing Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2017 09:59:04 + On the current pc card situation I have some remarks. Primarily directed at other pc card supporters. I got the pc card after making some assessments. Did I believe it was a scam, no. Did I believe the pc card had a chance of getting made, yes. Did I believe the pc card enterprise could shipwreck, yes. If so I decided lkcl would not hear a word for it from me. Of course I only made such decision because to me the pc card's price is negligible. If beneficial to lkcl, he can erase me from the shipping list and no refund. I ask others to do the same. I think lkcl has done more than one can expect. He likely has gathered experiences and knowledge about libre hardware, he can use moving forward. If lkcl can contribute to the riscv development, he rather should do that, than potter on an arm cpu, none of us like. What I want to avoid is, that lkcl on economic reasons gets discouraged and jammed. I know the following is not achievable. I say it anyway. One option is, lkcl sets a monthly required amount of money for the next 6 months. I am prepared to pay lkcl 5usd a month. But only if I know lkcl gets the required sum every month. 5Usd is cheap, I know. If you want to pay more do it. To me this matter is another prove of libre software people not being streamlined. Libre software people are up against companies like intel and amd. Libre software people cannot expect to achieve results if the matter is not better organized. Among libre software people there should be a system of fellowships enabling persons to work on free software. No it does not have to be lkcl. But such system should be created. How should it be founded? > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] pocketchip's keyboard for pc card?
https://getchip.com/pages/pocketchip I have been told, the pocketchip's keyboard is i2c. Can you connect the keyboard to the pcmcia/eoma68 breakout board? Then configure the keyboard's keys using a piece of software? I asked the chip company if they would sell a version of the pocketchip having an usb keyboard and no display. A version like that would be useful for people, should they want to combine a pocketchip with a raspberry pi, pc card or other computer. The chip company has not answered. Thanks. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] sifive makes gnulinux running riscv cpu
https://www.sifive.com/products/risc-v-core-ip/u54-mc/ What can we expect from this cpu? There is no gpu, you cannot get a board which has a display port? ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] New Risc-V fully free chip
Original Message From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] New Risc-V fully free chip Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 03:44:19 + >suggestions on how > to contact them appreciated. Current Team Members: Rahul Bodduna (rahul.bodd...@gmail.com) Neel Gala (neelg...@gmail.com) Arjun Menon (c.arjunme...@gmail.com) G Vinod (g.vinod1...@gmail.com) Abhinaya Agrawal (agrawal.abhin...@gmail.com) G S Madhusudan (gs.madhusu...@cse.iitm.ac.in, ma...@macaque.in) V. Kamakoti (k...@cse.iitm.ac.in, vee...@gmail.com) For Queries/Collaboration/Feedback : shakti.i...@gmail.com __ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] MNT Reform DIY portable computer
Original Message From: Pen-Yuan Hsing Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: [Arm-netbook] MNT Reform DIY portable computer Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 15:33:35 +0100 > http://mntmn.com/reform/ Can the i mx8 work on entirely libre software? Libre software gpu? > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] ppcnotebook
https://www.powerpc-notebook.org/en/ Do you know them? Are they credible? Thank you. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Cell phone question
Original Message From: Joseph Lira Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: "arm-netb...@list.phcomp.co.uk" Subject: [Arm-netbook] Cell phone question Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2017 18:03:37 + > Hello > >does such a phone exist? I think a common phone will get lineageos compatible. By default lineageos comes with no google applications. If lineageos apart from that gives you enough privacy and security, I also would want to know? ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Arm Netbook, Saw the update,
> SoC, the RK3388 (yes it really does exist). also i'm waiting for some Was it not rk3399? > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] mailing list etiquette
From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Apparently from: arm-netbook- > On Sat, Jun 17, 2017 at 6:35 PM, wrote: > > do you, through not listening to what you are being told, *genuinely* > wish to force me to take such action? No. I maintain that I prefer an email to display all previous pieces of information. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] bunnie about riscv
Original Message From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] bunnie about riscv Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 09:30:45 +0100 > ron hi please remember to cut context. there is 3 paragraphs > comprising several hundred words, repeated, followed by a single > sentence and then a single-sentence question. > > these last two sentences are the only relevant context: the rest of > the context you have forced over 400 people to re -read unnecessarily. I have not forced anyone to read anything. Anyone may ignore my emails. You know where to look. It is where there are no '>'. I prefere if others leave the full text in their emails. I prefere to not delete text in my own replies. I cannot make that decision about my replies? > > please consider the impact that you are having on the members of the > list by following the required etiquette which, by following it, i am > permitting you to be a member of this list. > > thank you for understanding and respecting the interaction rules of this list. > > l. > > On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 6:30 PM, wrote: > > >> > We should have libre software hdds and ram. > >> > >> Can you elaborate on that a bit? I don't understand what you mean. > > https://www.theverge.com/2015/2/16/8048243/nsa-hard-drive-firmware-virus-stuxnet > > > > > > > > > > Devices like hdd, ram, sd card have their own system software. > > You cannot access it and do not know what it can do. > > https://opencores.org/ > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] bunnie about riscv
From: Neil Jansen > On Sun, Jun 11, 2017 at 4:38 PM, wrote: > > Thank you for the information. > > I have watched a rutkowska video on how complicated > > intel's management features are. > > Difficult. > > That's why I'm here, lol. The Intel stuff is getting bad enough that it > has me wondering what I can do for the open source hardware world. Moving > to ARM via EOMA68 is a good near-term solution, but even that's not going > to be 100% trustable at lest by bunnie's standards in the lecture. > Something like RISC-V has the potential to get there, but as he pointed > out, even that's not completely open. I think right now the important > thing is to just be an early adopter of this stuff to show that the > market's there. bunnie broke the demographics down pretty well, there's > definitely money to be made. Back to Intel though. It makes me want to > jump on eBay and pick up some older vintage Intel CPU's that didn't have > the management features, but obviously there's no way to know if those > aren't blown wide open by other means. Man, very interesting times we live > in. > > > > Remarkable that you cannot do a verification using a microscope. > > You can do exactly this, and it'll get you to maybe 99% of the way there. > Companies like ChipWorks do exactly this for money. Others do it for hobby > (see: http://www.visual6502.org/, http://siliconpr0n.org/, > https://zeptobars.com/en/, http://www.righto.com/). It can often get great > results. bunnie was playing devils advocate by saying even if you did > this, there are still things that can be present but in an obfuscated > manner, that could be malicious or careless. This doesn't really mean to > throw the baby out with the bathwater. Having a reverse engineered CPU > with a small possibility of shenanigans is still better than having a 100% > proprietary CPU or a 50% proprietary CPU. Security through obscurity and > all that. > > > > We should have libre software hdds and ram. > > Can you elaborate on that a bit? I don't understand what you mean. https://www.theverge.com/2015/2/16/8048243/nsa-hard-drive-firmware-virus-stuxnet Devices like hdd, ram, sd card have their own system software. You cannot access it and do not know what it can do. https://opencores.org/ > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] modifying a 7 inch notebook cabinet toacceptapccard
> On 10/06/17 06:03, ronwirr...@safe-mail.net wrote: > > About the battery. If I can find an usb power bank having the right > > specifications, I could then use the power bank to power the > > computer and if I wanted to be able to charge the battery and > > have the computer turned on at the same time, I could get > > a charger with 2 usb connectors? > > With a power bank this might work, because they (AFAIK) all have their > charging circuitry inside the power bank and take a straight-up voltage > source to charge. It won't make too much difference how you connect them > as long as you have adequate gauge wires for all connections. > > If you're dealing with Li-ion cells, it's not recommended. It has to do > with how Li-ion charging works. In short the charge schedule (most > notable in a "fast" charge, meaning anything less than 5 hours or so) is > constant current at a rate the battery can handle to voltage, and then > constant voltage as the current tapers off to nearly nothing. > > The upshot of this is that trying to power a device with the > battery/charger combo while charging the battery will confuse any decent > charger (and if it isn't a decent charger you SHOULD NOT use it). The > only way around this is a charge controller designed for such use that > has three sets of terminals. One for a source, one for battery, and one > for load. The charge controller is then able to distinguish the load > from the battery charge current and charge it intelligently. Your lowermost section, I do not follow. Let us assume you somehow are able to get the battery bank into the computer's cabinet. Let us say, you use an usb port on the usb battery bank to both charge the usb battery bank and power supply the pc card. In order to power the pc card, you would have an usb cable connecting the power bank and the pc card. I have no power banks. Looking around, it appears power banks have a port for getting charged and one for power supplying devices. In general, are you sure, you cannot charge a power bank and simultaneously have it power supplying a device? If the power bank can be charged and power supply a device simultaneously you would connect another usb cable from the charger which charges the power bank to the power bank. Else if the power bank gets empty, you would remove the usb cable connecting the power bank and the pc card. Then connect an usb cable from the charger of the power bank to the power bank. I suggest to use a https://www.att.com/chargers/att-42a-dual-usb-low-draw-universal-wall-charger.html if you want to charge the power bank and turn on the pc card at the same time. One usb cable from the charger to the power bank. One usb cable form the charger to the pc card. > > Tor > > -- > Tor Chantara > http://www.fineartmarquetry.com/ > 808-828-1107 > GPG Key: 2BE1 426E 34EA D253 D583 9DE4 B866 0375 134B 48FB > *Be wary of unsigned emails* > Stop spying: http://www.resetthenet.org/ > > > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] bunnie about riscv
Original Message From: Neil Jansen Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] bunnie about riscv Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2017 11:07:56 -0400 Thank you for the information. I have watched a rutkowska video on how complicated intel's management features are. Difficult. > On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 11:54 AM, wrote: > > > It was very informative. A lot of the technical matter I did not > understand. > > This was a GREAT talk. Thanks for the link. > > > Can you explain: > > 23.04 The 2 lowermost boxes? > > 1) PDK / Foundries. The factories in which the chips are made in. They're > not open. They're proprietary and there's a implication of trust. > 2) Equipment / Raw Materials. The equipment that makes the chips and the > raw materials that go into the chips. All a very cloudy and and murky area > that is not open, and very proprietary. > > He's basically saying that those that want *100%* open source hardware > would require infinite recursion down to the raw components, which is > impossible. That's the whole point of the talk. The 'impedance mismatch' > thing is a sort of metaphor to describe the unrealistic expectations of > those idealists that want 100% open source hardware. He's saying it cannot > happen today. And BTW I've met Bunnie on several occasions, he's legit, > and you can trust what he's saying to be technically correct. He's the > real deal. > > > What is a stepper? > > A stepper motor. That is, do you trust the motors that move the machines > that made the integrated circuits? > > > What is fuse? > > See this link: > https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/1262/what-are-atmel-fuses > > > > 25.15 The 4 lowermost boxes? > > * BIOS > * Firmware > * Hidden / fused silicon blocks - Blocks of silicon on the chip that aren't > usually turned on, but are there. Lots of big vendors are doing this now: > Intel, AMD, Nvidia, and it's anyone's guess as to what their real purpose > is. That leads to conspiracy theories, as Bunnie said. This is a problem > because if you put a chip like this into an open source laptop, it begs the > question of what would happen if something turned on that section and > started execution code from it? Nobody will know until (A) documentation > is leaked from the company or (B) someone reverse engineers it. Basically > if you use anything application processor chip made in the last 5-10 years, > you probably have some hidden / fused silicon blocks doing god knows what. > * Pre-boot microcode - Microcode (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcode) > that executes BEFORE your computer boots. This is a big deal, because > everything that happens after this point can be considered suspect. > (similar to how a boot virus would spread because it executes first). > * IP industry practices - Intellectual property used by silicon > manufacturers that are not open. What he's saying is, say that you're a > silicon vendor and you just bought a intellectual property from ARM to make > an ARM chip. They're giving you HDL (hardware description language) and > netlists (a large list of the connections to be made in the die), and guess > what, they gave them to you encrypted so that their intellectual property > is safe. You (the guy that runs a third party chip factory) cannot review > or inspect the intellectual property that ARM gave you. The point here is > that unless you're using an open source (RISC-V, etc) core, then using an > ARM isn't really 100% open source hardware. > * Mask trojans & glitches - These are malicious things in the CPU die > itself, that even if you were looking at the silicon die under a microscope > and studying it, you'd still completely miss it. Very nasty but they Remarkable that you cannot do a verification using a microscope. > exist. Hackaday.com has a lot of interesting articles that break these > sort of things down in layman's terms. Very interesting. Basically > because these exist, there's no way to know that you are really executing > what you think you are executing unless you built the foundry and > supervised the chips being made, and analyzed everything that went into the > manufacture of them. It's a trust problem. > > These are all highly complex subjects that hardware engineers like Bunnie > deal with a lot, and other (I'll say idealist) software guys probably have > never thought of. They're important in that when you realize that they're > there, you will then understand how silly wanting 100% open hardware really > is. It's a huge problem that hardly anybody is trying to fix. > > > Recently the 6502 was completely dissected and recreated, so that's one of > the only fully documented (and I'd say fully trusted) cores out there > today. And that was made probably before I was born. Everything since > that should be assumed to be compromised and < 100% open. Oh, and even > then, the 6502 would have to h
Re: [Arm-netbook] modifying a 7 inch notebook cabinet to acceptapccard
Original Message From: Christopher Havel Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] modifying a 7 inch notebook cabinet to acceptapccard Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 16:17:45 -0400 > Respectfully, if you can't understand the protocol, you're out of your > depth and need to tackle something simpler and build up to this. Take the > scenic route, it will reward you better. Trust me -- I speak from > experience on this -- you'll wind up with a half-completed project that > doesn't work and you don't know why. I have a dozen or so of those in my > past. > It is not a big matter to me. I do not know to do any of it. I ask around. If I get easy to understand low priced solutions, I take advantage of them. > As for the Teensy... yes, one for mouse, one for keyboard. Use a touch > panel for a small LCD for the touchscreen. There's really no way to combine > them without getting into proprietary chips from eg Holtek -- and since > those chips are proprietary and therefore expensive and hard to get, you're > thankful that you can use a pair of Teensies ;) About the battery. If I can find an usb power bank having the right specifications, I could then use the power bank to power the computer and if I wanted to be able to charge the battery and have the computer turned on at the same time, I could get a charger with 2 usb connectors? > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] bunnie about riscv
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXwy65d_tu8 It was very informative. A lot of the technical matter I did not understand. Can you explain: 23.04 The 2 lowermost boxes? What is a stepper? What is fuse? 25.15 The 4 lowermost boxes? 27.35 It appears there is money. 31.21 Alex Bradbury has said, it is difficult to verify, you get the hardware, you were told, you would get. 46.31 I agree. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] intel pc card
Intel has made a pc card. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlBtqeNykEc Probably intel will allow only intel inside pc cards. Even more they will maybe build in mechanisms to stop peripheral electronics from accept non intel pc cards. If the intel pc card peripherals get a marked and they can be modified to run with lkcl's pc cards, that could be a gain for his pc cards. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] modifying a 7 inch notebook cabinet to accept apccard
Original Message From: Christopher Havel Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] modifying a 7 inch notebook cabinet to accept apccard Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 12:34:18 -0400 > You use the Arduino IDE to program Teensies, IIRC. They might also have > their own. Code is uploaded directly to a USB port on the Teensy. Have a > look around --> https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/ > > You *probably* need a Teensy++ 2.0. That is not a guarantee, just a 1 teensy for the keyboard and 1 teensy for the touchpad? Are there not simpler microcontrollers? > recommendation. I have not myself played around with Teensies, they're > expensive (relative to Arduino Nano/Micro clones on eBay, and to my typical > budget) and I tend to think in hardware terms far better than anything > software/firmware. I can't really help you beyond what I've just written. > > The computer doesn't 'see' keymapping. The computer sees a string of > information that tells it what key was depressed and released and when. > "Keymap" is where the key is in the matrix, which the computer doesn't care > about. The computer cares that you pressed the ESC key and released it x > number of microseconds later, not that it's row 1, column 1 in the matrix. > It seems to be too complicated. > You should look up the USB HID protocol and the PS/2 keyboard protocol. > Those will tell you a lot of how the computer 'sees' and 'talks to' a > keyboard... and how the keyboard 'talks' back. > > On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 12:27 PM, wrote: > > > Original Message > > From: Christopher Havel > > Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk > > To: Eco-Conscious Computing > > Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] modifying a 7 inch notebook cabinet to accept > > apc card > > Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 17:40:52 -0400 > > > > > > > Keyboard is easy if you know a little electronics. A laptop keyboard is > > a matrix keypad. Rows and columns. One key connects one row to one column. > > > > > > Look up a little thing called the "Teensy" -- it is a microcontroller > > board. You can (if you are very good at soldering) connect from the > > keyboard's PCB connector (cut the > > > > > > Can the teensy make the key mapping correct and the key mapping will be > > correct when arriving at the computer's usb port? > > > > PCB and solder to the connector while it's still on there -- no shorts, > > mind you, or it won't work, and the pin pitch is usually insane...) to a > > Teensy and make a "custom keyboard" that way. You will of course have to > > program the Teensy but that's the easy part ;) an Arduino Leonardo clone > > from eBay (also try to find, if you still can, > > > > > > Can you use a raspberry pi 0 to program a teensy? > > > > > > "Arduino Micro" clones -- NOT the "Pro Micro" ones, they won't have enough > > pins). Same code will run there and work just fine. > > > > > > Forget the battery, unless you have a reflow toaster oven (or other > > homemade reflow equipment, or access to the professional gear) -- you will > > need it for the kinds of chips that let computers talk to batteries, AFAIK. > > Too much trouble. > > > > > > I am designing, for a competition on Hackaday, a "made from common > > modules" "laptop" that I'm calling the AnyTop. The goal is that anyone can > > build it if they can use a screwdriver, knife, and some sort of drill. (The > > drill is only needed in one place.) It won't have a battery... but it will > > be a laptop form factor and it will work. Luke, would some discussion of > > this be on-topic? > > > > > > > ___ > > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk > > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] usb keyboard, width about 15cm?
Original Message
From: Nick Bannon
Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk
To: arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk
Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] usb keyboard, width about 15cm?
Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 12:21:34 +0800
> On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 04:48:03PM -0400, ronwirr...@safe-mail.net wrote:
> > http://usb.brando.com/prod_detail.php?prod_id=00666
>
> Promising! but as Christopher mentioned, "This item is Discontinued".
>
> I had luck searching for another 56 key keyboard ("50%"?): USD $23.73
Good find. It looks to be the same keyboard.
>
> http://www.dx.com/p/mini-56-key-usb-keyboard-with-retractable-usb-cable-for-pc-and-laptops-15953
> http://www.dx.com/p/15953
> http://www.dx.com/c/computers-tablets-networking-399/keyboards-302/USB-351
>
> The X/Y dimensions are very similar, though it's 60% heavier and 5mm thicker.
> Dimensions: 6.69 in x 2.91 in x 0.79 in (170 x 74 x 20 mm)
> Weight: 6.53 oz (185g)
>
> I think I'd miss the dedicated arrow keys.
> I'd like it even more if it had an integrated trackball or trackpoint,
That would make it much easier to integrate it in a pc card cabinet. I have
searched for wired usb touchpads and trackpoints.
I have not found any.
> which I guess requires a USB hub device/emulation as well?:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick
>
> Nick.
>
I have bought one 7usd bluetooth small keyboard. It
appears to have a touchpad too. I cannot say how
difficult it will be to modify it to a wired usb keyboard.
There is the https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/images/Pyra-Main.png
cabinet. If the 3d printer cad files are free software.
> --
>Nick Bannon | "I made this letter longer than usual because
> nick-...@rcpt.to | I lack the time to make it shorter." - Pascal
>
> ___
> arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk
> http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook
> Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
___
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Re: [Arm-netbook] firefly 3399 all source software disclosed?
Original Message From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] firefly 3399 all source software disclosed? Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 06:01:54 +0100 > --- > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > > > On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 10:07 PM, wrote: > > In a previous post, lkcl wrote the firefly rk3399 staff > > has the pcb cad files and he had no objection about firefly rejecting, > > which they have done towards me, to email the cad files. > > aiyaaa, you didn't ask them did you? it's their proprietary and confidential > business, and they're most likely under NDA with rockchip - please don't > do that, ron. > > > About lkcl's crowd funding, the mali gpu source code is > > not available. Lkcl can make the mali gpu source code > > not available, because he makes a reservation in the text in his ad. > > this is a rather confusing sentence-construction... ad... ad... ah, you > may be referring to the crowd-funding text as "advertising". that word > is reserved for businesses. this is *not* a business. > > > > About the pcb cad files, lkcl has decided they will not be > > available until lkcl decides to provide them. > > n, ron, most of the CAD files *are* available. the only ones that > are not are the EOMA68-A20 ones because i've invested literally tens > of thousands of dollars in their development, and if someone else goes > and clones them (particularly in china) before the project's properly > established it jeapordises the ENTIRE PROJECT. especially if they > fuck it up and get it wrong. I understand your arguments and why you made the decision. I was pointing out, that proper open source reasoning, in my opinion, would require that all data is provided. > > > > I disagree on the decision. > > tough. > > > Being open source I find it implicit that all data will be > > provided immediately. > > normally i would agree with you 100%. and in the case of the > housings those *are* 100% available. > > however in the case of the A20 PCB i have to make an exception > to not make them available *IMMEDIATELY*. > > let me be clear. they WILL be made available. is that clear? > > > > Because lkcl has made a reservation in his ad > > there is no advertising, ron. advertising is a tool utilised by > businesses. this is not a business. I have reflected on that. What I write now is not directed against you or your crowd funding. It is in general about crowd funding. It seems crowd funding is some form of workaround about buying an item. I have no knowledge about court decisions in this field. I could imagine due to consumer law, a court would rule it a common purchase. Meaning consumer rights would apply. > > > about the cad files in question he can make that choice. > > > > In the firefly rk3399' ad it says, the hardware is open source. > > that means that the software is available under libre licenses. it > does not mean that the *CAD* files for the *hardware* are available. > > > The ad is misleading and deceptive. > > ron, i do notice that you are often confused by the use of words that > potentially have multiple meanings, or that you sometimes > cross-associate words. > > in this case however you would be correct, there is the possibility > of thinking that "open source" applies *to* the hardware CAD files. > > however if they meant that, they would have used the words "open > hardware" or "libre hardware". I disagree. Firefly writes "open source hardware platform". I find my interpretation legitimate. You are not backing up your interpretation with arguments. My argument is, they say it is open source. Then everything has to be open source if no reservations are stated. > > it's a common enough mistake. > > > I have found no reservations about the mali gpu > > source code or the pcb cad files. Firefly can probably > > not email the mali gpu source code, because they do > > not have it. > > that's correct. you'd be asking them for something they don't have, > and are not legally obligated to provide even if they did. That is debatable. > > > They can email the pcb cad files because they have them. > > ron: they are in absolutely no way obligated to you to provide them. > they've used the right words, and it is *you* who is confused by their > choice of words. Again debatable. > > > > That is why I am going to demand both the mali gpu > > source code and the pcb cad files from firefly. > > ron please don't do that. you will only harm the reputation of the > free software community by doing so. I do not believe playing nice with the manufacturers will show a great rate of successes. Rather if big numbers of people would coordinated act like I do, some impact might show. There is no reason to not try both path simultaneous. Some people play nice. Other make deman
Re: [Arm-netbook] firefly 3399 all source software disclosed?
Original Message From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] firefly 3399 all source software disclosed? Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 06:15:57 +0100 > ron: what you're about to attempt is called "coercion". it's > unethical. the principles behind the libre concept are that ethics > come first: very few people in the libre world actually truly > understand that, because they think it's about the technology or about > the "four freedoms" as specifically defined and laid out. > > people need to be free to make their own choices. firefly (Acer) have > made their choice - as they are entirely at liberty to do - to release > the full source code of the SOFTWARE and NOT the hardware. > > if you attempt to coerce them into doing something that they have not > themselves chosen to do, they will not react as you intend, i > guarantee it. > > so please don't do it: it's unethical. > > l. > It is not common to debate strategy on a public mailing list. Because this is a minor matter and I do not believe I will get the data I want from firefly no matter what, I will tell what I wanted to do. I believe their kickstarter webpage is misleading and deceptive. They write the hardware is open source. Likely it is not legally established what defines open source hardware. I would say every piece of data and software about the computer has to be open source. It is about what the buyer of an item reasonably can expect. Not what seller decides by himself. To my knowledge seller has made no reservations on kickstarter. Then I say, he has to hand over what data seller has. They are supposed to be professionals. If they screw up in their ad, it is their problem. Arguments saying it is their data and business platform are not relevant. I am located in eu. Firefly is located in china. If firefly will not hand over the data I want, I will have to sue them in china or usa, if that is where kickstarter is located. I am not going to do that. If firefly refuses to provide the data, I am going to file a complaint to kickstarter about firefly. I tried to get the data. Wrote them and see what happens. Maybe firefly by mistake would provide the data. Did I believe it would work? No. https://youtu.be/6o_mVPwHYnk?t=1007 You may call it coercion and unethical. I do it anyway. Because I am weighing it up against my privacy and computer security. I cannot buy new libre software computers which have all devices enabled. > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] firefly 3399 all source software disclosed?
In a previous post, lkcl wrote the firefly rk3399 staff has the pcb cad files and he had no objection about firefly rejecting, which they have done towards me, to email the cad files. About lkcl's crowd funding, the mali gpu source code is not available. Lkcl can make the mali gpu source code not available, because he makes a reservation in the text in his ad. About the pcb cad files, lkcl has decided they will not be available until lkcl decides to provide them. I disagree on the decision. Being open source I find it implicit that all data will be provided immediately. Because lkcl has made a reservation in his ad about the cad files in question he can make that choice. In the firefly rk3399' ad it says, the hardware is open source. The ad is misleading and deceptive. I have found no reservations about the mali gpu source code or the pcb cad files. Firefly can probably not email the mali gpu source code, because they do not have it. They can email the pcb cad files because they have them. That is why I am going to demand both the mali gpu source code and the pcb cad files from firefly. If firefly does not provide the data in question, then I will file a complaint to kickstarter. It is unacceptable calling something open source, if it is not all open source. Of cource I will not mention lkcl in any form. Original Message From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] firefly 3399 all source software disclosed? Date: Tue, 30 May 2017 03:19:57 +0100 > --- > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > > > On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 10:12 PM, David Niklas wrote: > > On Mon, 8 May 2017 05:45:36 +0100 > > Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > >> --- > >> crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > >> > >> > >> On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 10:10 PM, zap wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > On 05/07/2017 04:29 PM, ronwirr...@safe-mail.net wrote: > >> >> All software for the mali-t860 is open source? > >> > >> none. MALI is proprietary. > > > > I'm confused. > > Luke, if you plan on making an RK3399 into an eoma project how can you > > get RYF status if the mali GPU is closed source? > > this was discussed a year ago or so. same process as for the EOMA68-A20 > > > For that matter, how can you get RYF cert. for your current eoma68 > > project? > > by leaving out the proprietary crap, simple as that. see below. > > > Unless I'm mistaken and it uses a different GPU? > > it is actually a different GPU but that does not change the > assessment process carried out by the FSF. > > > Or you just leave the HW crippled? > > if the FSF considered the device to be "crippled" by it not having > the 3D engine running, such that there was a genuine risk that people > would actively seek out the installation of proprietary software. > > in the case of e.g. a proprietary on-board WIFI device that *would* > constitute a genuine risk of people *actively* seeking out proprietary > firmware, and consequently the FSF quite naturally refuses to certify > devices that contain non-removable proprietary on-board WIFI chips. > > however in this case it actually turns out that if you use the > proprietary 3D GPU for the tasks that i suspect you *believe* will > quotes accelerate quotes certain operations (such as X11), the MALI > embedded GPU (or its associated proprietary software - we can't > actually tell which because we DON'T HAVE THE DAMN SOURCE) is so > piss-poor at its job that it actually SLOWS DOWN CERTAIN OPERATIONS of > X11. > > given that 2D acceleration is already covered by fbturbo, and works > really well *and is entirely libre software*, the *need* for the 3D > engine just for basic Small-Office / Home-Office and day-to-day usage > is NOT A CONCERN. > > so does that make it clear that the evaluation process (which was > described a year ago) is not just a hard-and-fixed process? > > now, if on the other hand this was a dedicated Games Console product, > *that would be an entirely different matter*. applying for RYF > Certification on a 3D Games Console product which has a 3D GPU which > *only works with proprietary software* would probably constitute too > much of a risk that buyers *WOULD* in fact go out of their way to > download the proprietary drivers. > > but this design *isn't being sold as a 3D Games Console*, is it? > > does that help clarify? > > l. > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] molex 12v 5v 2a power supply together with 3 way usb otg host charger cable
https://www.amazon.com/Coolerguys-100-240v-Molex-Power-Adapter/dp/B000MGG6SC/ref=sr_1_2/137-0773860-5662508?ie=UTF8&qid=1496171074&sr=8-2&keywords=molex+power+supply Can you power supply the pc card with the 5v 2a part of the power supply in combination with the 3 way usb otg host charger cable? Thank you. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] why are notebook devices not usb?
Original Message From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] why are notebook devices not usb? Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 18:56:18 +0100 > On Sat, May 27, 2017 at 6:16 PM, Christopher Havel > wrote: > > > Money. It's cheaper to do it that way.. > > yyep. this s pretty much.. errr... on the money An unforeseen answer. I thought it would be lower priced to make an usb device one time and several notebook manufacturers would buy the device for their notebook. The going for thinner argument sounds relevant. I thought making proprietary devices would make it more difficult and expensive for other manufacturers to make the same devices. Remarkable that it is lower priced for a manufacturer to make a device by themselves. > > > There's also the form factor to consider -- to an extent, there are no > > standards for laptop gadgetry because there's no way to do that. Different > > laptop sizes and shapes require differently-sized and -shaped crap inside. > > ... all completely optimised and customised based around what they > can get hold of, or what the reference design from intel is (which > will have specific power requirements and thermal requirements)...then > there is the constant demand for "thin-ness" which, as chris says, > means that a CUSTOM CONNECTOR gets ordered and made... and you can't > get hold of them. > > ron i wrote a long time ago when developing the tablet, about using a > single embedded controller which only costs $1, instead of putting in > a $1 USB hub, a $1.50 USB camera, a $1 USB audio IC and so on. > > it all adds up and the margins are so insanely low on laptops - ten > percent FOR THE ENTIRE CHAIN right from factory to sales - that they > just cannot justify the extra cost. > > l. > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] usb keyboard, width about 15cm?
Original Message From: Christopher Havel Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] usb keyboard, width about 15cm? Date: Sat, 27 May 2017 13:10:26 -0400 > The Bluetooth keyboards are Bluetooth only. > > Wired USB keyboard, that size? Never seen one. Would love to have one http://usb.brando.com/prod_detail.php?prod_id=00666 > myself; I've wanted to homebrew a waist-pack PC with wrist keyboard and > "google glass" style screen, since approximately a half hour after the dawn > of time. I've even got a viewfinder CRT out of an old camcorder that I > could use as the display if I hooked it up right. Trouble is I don't trust > BT to not interfere with everyone else and screw me up too... that, and I'd > need to make it work with a battery. > > Now that I think about it... I think I've seen one such keyboard literally > once ever, either by luck on eBay or on some other website. Don't remember > since it was at least five years ago. The thing commanded a princely sum, > too... like $150. > > It occurs to me as well that you might be able to get an > industrial/commercial duty wrist PC off eBay (be prepared to pay multiple > hundreds of dollars) and doof around with its built-in keyboard... or do > something with part of a cell phone and a Teensy... but that's real > jerry-rigging at best. There are also keyboards floating around for old > IPAQ PDAs that may be useful somehow... but you'd have to reverse-engineer > them and they look like they'd be horrible to use to begin with, you don't > even get most PC function keys (TAB, CTRL, ALT, etc). > > Good luck, and let me know if you find one... > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] why are notebook devices not usb?
I have gotten to learn that about notebooks, devices like sound, keyboard, touchpad and camera are often proprietary. Why are they not usb devices? Is it because the manufacturer will not risk that others can provide spare parts or make a copy of his computer? ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] usb keyboard, width about 15cm?
Original Message From: Christopher Havel Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] usb keyboard, width about 15cm? Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 13:04:27 -0400 > eBay has a bunch but they're all cheap nasty Chinese Bluetooth jobs. I should have written a wired usb keyboard, touchpad may be attached, having a width about 15cm. The bluetooth keyboards do not have the option of wired usb? > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] usb keyboard, width about 15cm?
My post was inaccurate phrased. I should have written a wired usb keyboard, touchpad may be attached, having a width about 15cm. Original Message From: Christopher Havel Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] usb keyboard, width about 15cm? Date: Fri, 26 May 2017 13:04:27 -0400 > eBay has a bunch but they're all cheap nasty Chinese Bluetooth jobs. > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] usb keyboard, width about 15cm?
I have searched the best I can for a seller of a small usb keyboard. Width about 15cm. Keyboard may include a touchpad. I cannot find a seller. I have asked on forums. No answers. http://usb.brando.com/prod_detail.php?prod_id=00666 Seller says, he has stopped selling the keyboard and he does not know where a keyboard of this size is being sold. Do you know if I can buy a keyboard of this size? Thank you. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] modifying a 7 inch notebook cabinet to accept apc card
Original Message From: Christopher Havel Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] modifying a 7 inch notebook cabinet to accept apc card Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 17:40:52 -0400 > Keyboard is easy if you know a little electronics. A laptop keyboard is a > matrix keypad. Rows and columns. One key connects one row to one column. > > Look up a little thing called the "Teensy" -- it is a microcontroller board. > You can (if you are very good at soldering) connect from the keyboard's PCB > connector (cut the Can the teensy make the key mapping correct and the key mapping will be correct when arriving at the computer's usb port? PCB and solder to the connector while it's still on there -- no shorts, mind you, or it won't work, and the pin pitch is usually insane...) to a Teensy and make a "custom keyboard" that way. You will of course have to program the Teensy but that's the easy part ;) an Arduino Leonardo clone from eBay (also try to find, if you still can, Can you use a raspberry pi 0 to program a teensy? "Arduino Micro" clones -- NOT the "Pro Micro" ones, they won't have enough pins). Same code will run there and work just fine. > > Forget the battery, unless you have a reflow toaster oven (or other homemade > reflow equipment, or access to the professional gear) -- you will need it for > the kinds of chips that let computers talk to batteries, AFAIK. Too much > trouble. > > I am designing, for a competition on Hackaday, a "made from common modules" > "laptop" that I'm calling the AnyTop. The goal is that anyone can build it if > they can use a screwdriver, knife, and some sort of drill. (The drill is only > needed in one place.) It won't have a battery... but it will be a laptop form > factor and it will work. Luke, would some discussion of this be on-topic? > ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] taobao
Is taobao a chinese ebay? Does taobao ship to europe? English version of taobao? Thank you. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] mali gpu reverse engineering lkcl may ignore
Original Message From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] mali gpu reverse engineering lkcl may ignore Date: Thu, 25 May 2017 21:48:05 +0100 > folks, it's very interesting to note this discussion as being very (visually) > difficult to read, because normally i reply to pretty much every discussion > and i take particular care to do inline posting and to cut unnecessary > context (as is being done here)... but also, from experience, > it would seem that i do quite a bit more than that. > > what i *also* tend to do is to tidy up the sentences adding line-breaks > as well as carriage-returns that separate out the paragraphs. this I will shorten lines. > helps the people who reply to be able to not only identify the different > people in the conversation but also it helps their mailers to add in > the correct level of additional indentation - the ">"s before each > line. > > now, if you *don't* do that, then you end up with an absolute mess: > one single ">" per paragraph... but you can't identify it visually > because there's *no paragraph breaks*. > > ron, it is *almost impossible* to identify what you've written, thus making > it much harder to understand what you want to say, and thus leading > directly to the confusion and lack of clarity that you're experiencing. > > if you would like your ideas to be easier to understand perhaps you > might consider switching to "plain text only" mode in your email client I always write in plain text. If I do not, it is a mistake. > and to re-read any online netiquette rules for email lists once again, paying > particular attention to layout and the use of whitespace in replies. > > l. > > On Thu, May 25, 2017 at 9:38 PM, wrote: > > > Original Message > >> On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 03:07:45PM -0400, ronwirr...@safe-mail.net wrote: > >> > If you reinterpret what I write then tell on what grounds. I think > >> > lkcl's reasons for not reverse engineering a mali are right. > >> It is difficult to follow your argumentation. You write that you agree > >> and disagree in the next sentence. > > No, I do not. > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] modifying a 7 inch notebook cabinet to accept a pc card
On another forum I asked about the practicability of modifying a 7 inch notebook cabinet to become pc card compatible. Lkcl rejected my suggestion. He argued, that keyboard, sound, batteri etc would require custom pcbs. Expenses worth thousand of eus. Doing it wrong and the computer could catch fire. I am not going to spend thousand of eus. I will try to modify a computer. I have no expectation, that I will be able to do it. I have come to think that the pc card is a raspberry pi. If your display is hdmi and other devices are usb, then you have a computer. On youtube I found a person who had turned notebook's touchpad into an usb touchpad. I asked him about modifying these notebook devices to usb: speakers -> use an usb soundcard mic -> use an usb soundcard camera -> notebooks camera may be an usb device. Else get an usb camera. touchpad -> many synaptic touchpads are usb compatible. I do not know what to do about the left and right buttons. keyboard -> that will be difficult. battery -> likely difficult. At least if you want to be able to charge and have the computer turned on at the same time. display -> either get a lvds to hdmi converter or get a hdmi display. I do not now if a 7 inch hdmi display requires separate power. It appears the keyboard is the biggest difficulty. On his website one person wrote about modifying a notebook keyboard to an usb keyboard. He wrote it is about getting a controller which will fit the keyboard's wiring. Then it is a matter of mapping the keys correctly. I do not know about powering the keyboard or rather the controller. I bought a 7 inch display asus eee pc 4g. If you get to use the battery cabinet, there ought to be space for the devices. Tell me what you say? ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] mali gpu reverse engineering lkcl may ignore
Original Message From: Pablo Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] mali gpu reverse engineering lkcl may ignore Date: Wed, 24 May 2017 22:40:07 +0200 > On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 03:07:45PM -0400, ronwirr...@safe-mail.net wrote: > > If you reinterpret what I write then tell on what grounds. I think lkcl's > > reasons for not reverse engineering a mali are right. > It is difficult to follow your argumentation. You write that you agree > and disagree in the next sentence. No, I do not. First I list lkcl's reasons why he thinks reverse engineering is a bad track. I agree on his arguments. Next I say, why I believe it is better doing a reverse engineering. If you do not accept the principle of weighing arguments up against each other then that is your decision. I specifically wrote in an earlier post, that for me the arguments in favor of making a reverse engineering of a mali gpu are stronger than against. > >Weighing them up against the importance of getting a libre software gpu, I > >reach the conclusion that the reverse engineering should be done. > Before you plan a difficult crowd funding campaign and involve the FSF, > please tell us your > counter arguments to Lukes reasoning on a technical and ethical level. I do not have any technical arguments about a reverse engineering. I have no insight about reverse engineering. To my knowledge it is one of the most difficult fields about computers. I asked if a reverse engineering can be done? Lkcl said yes. My political arguments align with those of libre software. Watch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag1AKIl_2GM I think it is important having libre software electronics which are able to match the performance of non libre electronics. We should have at least one libre software mali gpu we can ask people to buy. > For example to the following points I am quoting from Lukes email reply to > you in > the thread about "firefly 3399 all source software disclosed?": > - "take one of the "open gpus" or parts of them and use that." > - "the sad fact of reverse-engineering: all that effort, with > *no guarantee of success* just to get something that's years > out-of-date." > - "well, with the same money it would be possible to make our > own libre processor, with enough extensions to be able to do 3D > graphics *without* paying anyone a cent." I have not heard about this option before lkcl wrote it. I have not heard anyone else mention this option. If lkcl's suggestion is practicable, it is another prove of the lack of coordination among libre software people. > > > There have been some remarks about the probability of a successful crowd > > funding. I mentioned the numbers 5 people, each paying 5euro. Notice on > > this email list, people want to pay 5eu, if they get the software in > > question. > >It is safe to say more than 10 million people have gnulinux on their > >computer? A major part of them know about the importance of libre software > >and a part of them would want to act on it. > I don't know if your numbers are correct but it seems important to me to I do not know either. I do not think there are statistical numbers or questionnaires on this matter. My major arguments are, more than 10 million people likely know about libre software. If you asked them one by one, if in the same prize range, do you want to buy libre software electronics over non libre electronics, many would answer yes. Providing libre software electronics would require a very high degree of coordination. Every major gnulinux forum and organization should display the crowd funding at the same time. I have so far not seen a crowd funding about libre software electronics that would display no matter what entity on the internet people would watch. Proven is, on many areas of consumer electronics we cannot buy libre software devices. > point out that only a fraction of all GNU/Linux Users own a device with > a mali GPU. Only a part of that group would in principle support such a > campaign. Only some of the willing will actually fund the campaign... > > Pablo > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] mali gpu reverse engineering lkcl may ignore
Original Message From: Neil Jansen Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] mali gpu reverse engineering lkcl may ignore Date: Mon, 22 May 2017 17:28:21 -0400 If you reinterpret what I write then tell on what grounds. I think lkcl's reasons for not reverse engineering a mali are right. Weighing them up against the importance of getting a libre software gpu, I reach the conclusion that the reverse engineering should be done. There have been some remarks about the probability of a successful crowd funding. I mentioned the numbers 5 people, each paying 5euro. Notice on this email list, people want to pay 5eu, if they get the software in question. It is safe to say more than 10 million people have gnulinux on their computer? A major part of them know about the importance of libre software and a part of them would want to act on it. I agree about the responses on the practicability of a crowd funding. I am not sure a crowd funding can be done successfully. I would like to know why? Why cannot such campaigns be coordinated centralized? We should have a known entity, which would approve libre software related crowd fundings. People would know them to not be scams. Why does an entity like the free software foundation not take on this task? I should ask them. About these fragmented crowd fundings, you yourself have to make a validation, which is difficult. When lkcl initiated his pc card crowd funding, I did not know him. I still mostly do not. On trisquel's forum people referenced thinkpenguin. Thinkpenguin endorsed lkcl. That is why I supported lkcl. Is the free software foundation not involved because they fear scandals or not have enough resources? The matter about libre software consumer electronics, I consider highly important. There have been remarks about the retaliation towards people who want to do reverse engineering. How to deal with it. One option would be to let one entity collect the funding, manage public relations and another hidden team do the reverse engineering. Everything still legal on taxes. Legalities seems to be an important issue. Are these legal concerns an american matter? I do not know everything which may happen but if the public part of the crowd funding is located in eu, I think a campaign should be fine. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] rk3399 what full schematics does lkcl want?
Original Message From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] rk3399 what full schematics does lkcl want? Date: Sat, 20 May 2017 16:27:33 +0100 > btw ron please do cut context that's not necessary, it was very hard > to find the questions you wrote. > > On Sat, May 20, 2017 at 3:47 PM, wrote: > > >> then once that's done you then have to do the PCB design *from* the > >> schematics, and that takes even longer. and will contain mistakes. > >> > > > Is it difficult or takes a lot of time? I ask because the converting to cad > > files cannot be split up in numerous pieces and put on a website, where > > people can each solve one piece? > > so, cutting all but the relevant context, and answering just the > questions you asked: there are two aspects. > > firstly, the schematics: these just take time. it could be > parallelised in theory > > secondly, the PCB layout: this takes time *and* is difficult. > creating the footprints for compoents could be parallelised, but the > PCB layout - positioning of components, connecting components, laying > out tracks and the planes? no - for such a small PCB that is best > handled by one person with the required expertise. > > and that task alone takes months to do from scratch. > > l. Do you make your pc card a20 cad files public? > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] mali gpu reverse engineering lkcl may ignore
Because I deleted a previously email about this subject, I start a new email. Info. Lkcl said, he is not in favor of reverse engineering a mali gpu. Because it is about 15eu and new gpus will emerge during the reverse engineering and the outcome is uncertain. I agree on his arguments. I do not find them strong enough. Maybe lkcl assumed it was about a mali gpu on a pc card. It was not. My question was a general question about getting a broadly known mali gpu reverse engineered. In my email I referenced the https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1771382379/firefly-rk3399-six-core-64-bit-high-performance-pl because according to lkcl it is as fast as a duo core intel mainboard and only the mali gpu software is not source code. There is no new arm source code computer for sale. I think one should be provided. People must be able to get one. 15eu is a crowd funding of 3 people, each 5eu. I would pay an extra 5eu to be able to buy a source code computer. I do not know if 3 people are interested or if they can agree on one board. You cannot get the mali source code faster, if you put more people on it? ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] mark an email no response from lkcl expected
My questions are not important. It is interesting to get to know about the hardware discussed here. I do not know if lkcl has a policy of answering all emails. Can I mark an email 'no response from lkcl expected' such he knows not answering is an option if he has better things to do? Thank you lkcl for your work. It has to be difficult. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] does arm-netbook get a forum?
Will a forum get created for the pc card instead of this email list? ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] rk3399 what full schematics does lkcl want?
Original Message From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] rk3399 what full schematics does lkcl want? Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 18:17:16 +0100 > --- > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > > > On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 4:49 PM, wrote: > > > I do not know about this. I understood it all wrong. I thought it was a > > matter of tfirefly withholding part of the full schematics. > > the t-firefly 3399 is designed, manufactured and sold by a third > party compapy (t-firefly) that has *nothing* to do with rockchip, the > manufacturer of the RK339 processor. > > > Is it correct to say, that the pdf schematics provide the required pieces > > of information for an eoma rk3399 pc card? > > that is incorrect in about two or three separate and distinct way. > > > Is it correct to say, that pdf full schematics are not easy usable for you > > in order to make an eoma rk3399 pc card? > > that would be correct in about two or three separate and distinct > ways, the implications of which are that it would cost about $30,000 > and take maybe 6 to 12 *months* to make an eoma rk3399 pc card purely > from a PDF schematic. > > > It is a matter of transforming pdf data into cad data? > > yes, which is a f**g stupid way to do it, as everything has to be > RE-ENTERED - by hand - into the CAD program, to make it "look" like > the PDF output. > > then once that's done you then have to do the PCB design *from* the > schematics, and that takes even longer. and will contain mistakes. > > it's basically a total waste of time and money to eveen consider. Is it difficult or takes a lot of time? I ask because the converting to cad files cannot be split up in numerous pieces and put on a website, where people can each solve one piece? > > > Having rk3399 cad data, you can make an eoma rk3399? > > correct! and it would, in total contrast to trying the incredibly > stupid idea of re-producing that CAD data taking almost a YEAR and > cost tens of thousands of dollars because you made dozens of mistakes, > take about 2-3 weeks instead. > > > Does tfirefly have the firefly rk3399 cad data? > > yes they do otherwise they would not be able to produce the Gerber > files to send off to the PCB manufacturing factory. > > > If so, why won't tfirefly make them public? > > because it's their proprietary and confidential data that's why! > they're a commercial company that wants to make money, having > absolutely nothing to do with rockchip (who are just a supplier of the > RK339 processor). > > why on earth would they destroy their own business by making it > possible for people to take the CAD files, create some gerbers, have > SOMEONE ELSE manufacture THEIR product and thus cut them completely > out of the loop? > > that would be very dumb of them to do, if their business is to make > money from selling t-firefly-rk3399 products, wouldn't it? > > > > Because a license prohibits it? > > no. > > > Because competitors can use them? > > correct. > > > Lkcl, have you asked tfirefly to give you the full schematics cad data? > > no... because they would think i was a bit dumb. or worse, wanted to > steal their business. i have no desire to piss them off. > > > > Because I got to think, you said tfirefly is withholding some schematics, > > no i did not say that. it may be true but i would not have > specifically said it. i may have said that *rockchip* has *not made > available the reference design* which is a totally different matter. > > you may have then thought "rockchip equals firefly". > > please try not to make cross-connections and/or correlations that > aren't actually the case. > > > > I wrote tfirefly asking them to email me the full schematics. Tfirefly > > never denied, that they had not made the full schematics public. They said, > > they could not disclose the full schematics. Maybe due to a lack of english > > skills on both sides. > > no, you've just misunderstood their business model. please don't ask > them again, it's not fair to ask them to make public something which > will destroy their business model. > > > > Then what should you ask tfirefly for? Full schematics cad data? > > absolutely nothing. you don't ask them for anything. they're a > third party business - an OEM. > > and we also can't ask rockchip either, because we're not going to > order a million of their processors, cash up-front... *until* they > have made full CAD data available. > > classic catch 22 situation. > > so instead we wait - as i specifically, specifically said - until > rockchip's Reference Designs leak out onto the public internet and are > available on e.g. taobao or other site, for sale for $25. > > l. > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk >
Re: [Arm-netbook] rk3399 what full schematics does lkcl want?
Original Message
From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk
To: Eco-Conscious Computing
Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] rk3399 what full schematics does lkcl want?
Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 23:35:37 +0100
> ---
> crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
>
>
> On Thu, May 18, 2017 at 8:51 PM, wrote:
>
> > lkcl says, he cannot make use of the rk3399 cpu
>
> no, i did not say that. i specifically said that it would be a total
> waste of my time to *CONSIDER* using the rk3399 until *full reference
> design CAD source files are available*
>
> > because he does not have the full schematics.
>
> no, i said full reference design PCB and schematic *CAD* files:
> that's completely different, as full schematics are usually provided
> in "PDF" format which are completely f*g useless as you have to
> re-enter absolutely everything into the CAD design system and it takes
> weeks if not months... *and then you have to do the PCB as well*.
>
> > What are these schematics?
>
> you mean full reference design PCB and schematic CAD files.
>
> examples include:
>
> * http://beagleboard.org/hardware/design search that page for the
> words "allegro" and "orcad"
> * https://www.kosagi.com/w/index.php?title=Novena_PVT_Design_Source
> search that page for "altium source"
> * https://github.com/NextThingCo/CHIP-Hardware and again look for the
> ".DSN" (orcad) and ".brd" (allegro) files
> * https://github.com/radxa/oshw/tree/master/rock_pro likewise
>
> and many, many more. Jetson TK1, Sabre Lite, Sabre iMX7 - there are
> absolutely loads of examples.
>
>
> > Can you tell in advance what schematics are required?
>
> you mean full reference design PCB and schematic CAD files. yes you
> can tell: the best ones contain both an example PMIC layout as well as
> the DDR RAM layout. the *absolute* best ones are a fully-working
> board (typically named EVB - evaluation board) but a "beaglebone" or
> somesuch will do just as well.
>
> a full reference design basically allows a transformation into a
> fully working Card to take place in as little as three weeks.
>
> the ones that are a pain are the ones that *only* contain an example
> DDR RAM layout to the processor. but this alone saves LITERALLY
> months of effort.
>
> > Can you name them?
>
> name them... sort-of.
>
> words to use when doing google searches include "BSP" or "EVB" but if
> that doesn't work try "{processor name} space {PCB CAD Design Package
> name}"
>
> > Or do you require all of the full schematics?
>
> the more that is available the less time and money is wasted.
>
> > You do not know what schematics you require until you have read the full
> > schematics?
>
> if you just want to READ the schematics you can do that with the
> auto-generated (read-only) PDF that is otherwise f**g useless for
> doing actual modifications because it's a read-only output from the
> CAD package.
>
> obviously this will however allow you to assess whether the SOURCE of
> the CAD files will be any good, such that you can decide whether
> you're wasting your time or not.
>
> for example, it's no good if you have a tiny board and the PDF shows
> that the design has (and requires) 8 DDR RAM ICs. or, if it uses
> LPDDR RAM or uses POP (package-on-packagee) RAM, you need to make a
> decision about that (see the neo900 nightmare they just had because
> they picked a POP RAM)
>
> but once you have reviewed the *READ-ONLY* PDF, even if you obtain
> the schematic SOURCE file, you STILL cannot make a final decision
> because you NEED TO SEE THE PCB CAD LAYOUT FILE AS WELL.
>
> the PCB CAD file contains the footprints of the ICs, it contains
> tracks laid out, ground planes all done and completed, and a huge
> range of engineering expertise including R.F. and E.M. expertise of
> the person who did the layout, all done, all of which you DO NOT HAVE
> TO DUPLICATE.
>
> but sometimes the distance between the SoC and the RAM ICs will be
> too great: in a small PCB the ICs would not fit, so you would need to
> consider *modifying* one of the most difficult and challenging areas
> to get right (the DDR layout). that's just nuts: you'd be wasting
> your time, so it would be better to find a completely new layout that
> someone else has already done.
>
> sometimes the PMIC (power management ICs) are in the wrong place for
> the target PCB size you want, so you have to work out how to move (or
> re-lay-out) those, or replace them entirely. that is a whole can of
> worms on its own, so again it would be better to see if you can find a
> new layout that's been tested and known to work.
>
> basically it's a hell of a lot of work even to *evaluate* a Reference Design.
>
> l.
>
I do not know about this. I understood it all wrong. I thought it was a matter
of tfirefly withholding part of the full schematics.
Is it correct to say, that the pdf schem
[Arm-netbook] rk3399 what full schematics does lkcl want?
lkcl says, he cannot make use of the rk3399 cpu because he does not have the full schematics. What are these schematics? Can you tell in advance what schematics are required? Can you name them? Or do you require all of the full schematics? You do not know what schematics you require until you have read the full schematics? ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Sourcing PCMCIA type 2 and type 3 cases
Original Message From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Eco-Conscious Computing Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] Sourcing PCMCIA type 2 and type 3 cases Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 20:55:43 +0100 > --- > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > > > On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 8:35 PM, Vincent wrote: > > Hi Luke, > > > > Hm, that is sad. I somewhat fear that these cases are being phased out > > and soon will no longer be available :-/ > > no - there are at least two big customers still ordering these > specific parts. one is in korea, the other is the french "Conditional > Access Module" industry. Is the pc card's casing this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional-access_module > > also i've ordered 2,000 of each (case and connector) so should have plenty. > > > Does he have both type 2 and type 3 cases? > > no. type II only. > > > I saw some type 3 cases with > > screws and everything which lead me to the conclusion that it could > > actually be possible to open/close them and insert/remove the PCB that > > is inside? For type 2, this appears not to be possible? > > the litkconn P/N 68F casework basically is a "total disassmbly" job. > it's a pain in the ass and takes several minutes. > > > If it is about receiving data, I can basically set up pretty much > > everything, e.g.: receive via email, dedicated GIT, anonymous file drop > > off, etc. ;-) > > yay, great. > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] firefly 3399 all source software disclosed?
Original Message From: Allan Mwenda Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Linux on small ARM machines , Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] firefly 3399 all source software disclosed? Date: Tue, 09 May 2017 08:24:02 +0300 > Quick give this man $150K for a libre CPU > > On 8 May 2017 18:43:07 GMT+03:00, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton > wrote: > > > > On Mon, May 8, 2017 at 4:27 PM, wrote: > > > > > > Best knowledge is, that new intel and amd processors cannot be reverse > > > engineered. > > > What in regard of the latest mali gpus? > > > If you have the money, they can be reverse engineered? > > > > yes. about $150k would do it. but the question is, really: what would > > happen if you did? and, what else could you do with the same money? well, > > with the same money it would be possible to make our own libre processor, > > with enough extensions to be able to do 3D graphics *without* paying anyone > > a cent. any company tries to claim patent royalties, all that happens is a > > search is made on their "claims", for anything similar that has prior art. > > if it's another company, guess what? we notify that other company and > > watch the fireworks... l. arm-netbook mailing list > > arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large > > attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk > > > > -- > Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. How can you make an arm gpu for 15usd? How would you use it? Would you put it additionally on a bord and not use the gpu located on the processor socket? If you reverse engineer the latest mali gpu, what you hold against it is, that when next version of an arm socket is for sale it will have a new mali gpu and require a new reverse engineering? Lets say 5 people would buy the filrefly rk3399. Same people would pay 3eu each for reverse engineering the gpu. Then we would have a source code arm computer? It takes a lot of coordination to provide gnulinux distributions I assume. It is unfortunate people are not able to coordinate such that we can get source code hardware. ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] firefly 3399 all source software disclosed?
Best knowledge is, that new intel and amd processors cannot be reverse engineered. What in regard of the latest mali gpus? If you have the money, they can be reverse engineered? Original Message From: Lauri Kasanen Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Linux on small ARM machines Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] firefly 3399 all source software disclosed? Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 17:52:45 +0300 > On Mon, 8 May 2017 17:39:17 +0300 > Bill Kontos wrote: > > > Imagination is far from dead yet. They did a mistake when they based all of > > their gpu income on apple, but their ip is rather advanced. Also on the > > plus side there has been discussion about them open sourcing their drivers > > a few months back and afterwards they hired new developers. I wouldn't be > > surprised if they actually saw this coming and reacted before it happened. > > They're openly considering selling MIPS, as well as other parts of > them. That goes against knowing things would go this way. > > - Lauri > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] Side-Topic: Liberating PocketCHIP
Is it common to do something like this against a person? Original Message From: Bill Kontos Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Linux on small ARM machines Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] Side-Topic: Liberating PocketCHIP Date: Mon, 8 May 2017 12:14:50 +0300 > Verhaegen is one of those selected individuals who had the luxury of getting > all the shit of the world thrown at their face for trying to do the right > thing. He was one of the leaders in pushing amd into mainlining gpu drivers( > which they have been successful to and keep working on) and got shit for > that. He attempted to reverse engineer the arm mali drivers( look up lima > driver) and he succeeded to some extend, then he run out of money becaue > nobody was willing to help him and arm has put significant effort into > destroying his life. The nda a company has to sign for getting the mali > drivers requires 0 interaction with his work, therefor no company can hire > him now. > > On May 8, 2017 8:02 AM, wrote: > > > > I apologize for DOS'ing the list, I can only get online about once a week. > > > > On Thu, 4 May 2017 17:13:23 +0200 > > "mike.v...@gmail.com" wrote: > > > > > > 2017-05-04 9:04 GMT+02:00 John Luke Gibson : > > > > > > > Since it seems like a trivially simple task that for some reason no > > > > one has taken up, I would like to take the opportunity to exercise a > > > > learning experience and simultaneously benefit the community, by > > > > liberating PocketCHIP by deblobbing the source and re-compiling. > > > > > > > > > > The PocketCHIP is powered by their SoM: > > > http://linux-sunxi.org/NextThingCo_CHIP > > > > > > That is apparently a Allwinner R8 pared with an external rtl8723bs > > > Wifi/BT chip. > > > > > > The R8 is a rebranded A13. > > What? I own one of those and I'm almost certain that the CPU is an A7. > > Let's boot the PocketCHIP up... > > The processor is detected as an A7. > > I'll attach the output, it would probably be interesting to see all of > > it... > > Done, it's compressed bzip2 since it's ~300KiB decompressed which is large > > for an email. > > > > > > I'm not too clever with gpg yet, so please tell me if the compressed file > > is also signed (I wanted to do that so that you could be certain that it > > was not infected en-route like happens to MS .cab files far to > > frequently (even though I don't have my key signed by anyone yet > > \me grumble grumble)). > > > > > > Unless your saying that the WiFi has a built in ARM R8 (Why)? which would > > really surprise me considering how large the processor chip is compared > > with the WiFi chip. > > > > > > > If you look at > > > https://getchip.com/pages/chip > > > > > > You'll see: > > > On the left image the RAM (Hynix) and Wifi+BT (Realtek) and Power module > > > (Allwinner AXP209) > > > On the right the SoC (R8/A13) and NAND (Samsung) > > > > > > The A13 does not need blob's to run anymore, the WiFi+BT chip does. > > > AFAIKT > > > > > > Display output needs some checking in Linux and U-boot mainline. But > > > most should be available or somewhat easily hacked in. > > > > > > GPU needs a BLOB which does not work on mainline AFAIKT. Luc Verhaegen > > > did get quite far before he burned out. > > > > > > You're not giving us enough details. Who is Verhaegen? What did he burn > > out on? > > When I first considered purchasing a PocketCHiP I read about the GPU > > not having 3D capabilities because of a binary blob. So, the CHIP folks > > hired (I think it was an extended goal of the kickstarter campaign), a > > kernel dev to add support to the Linux kernel for the GPU. I was going to > > mention this on this list before, but it's been so active... > > > > Sincerely, > > David > > > > ___ > > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk > > ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
Re: [Arm-netbook] firefly 3399 all source software disclosed?
All software for the mali-t860 is open source? Original Message From: Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton Apparently from: arm-netbook-boun...@lists.phcomp.co.uk To: Linux on small ARM machines Subject: Re: [Arm-netbook] firefly 3399 all source software disclosed? Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 14:06:18 +0100 > --- > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > > > On Sun, May 7, 2017 at 10:53 AM, wrote: > > https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1771382379/firefly-rk3399-six-core-64-bit-high-performance-pl > > Has all source code for the computer been disclosed? > > as far as i was able to ascertain when i last checked: yes. u-boot > and linux kernel, no proprietary pieces at all. > > > Lkcl has says, he can make use of the rk3399 if he has the processor's data > > sheet. > > i already have the datasheet. it's the reference design that i need. > > > What data about the rk3399 does lkcl not have? > > i need a reference design. full schematics, full pcb layout. > > > What is the performance of the rk3399 processor compared to a x86 dual core > > 2ghz? > > the rk3288 already outperforms a dual-core intel atom. > > l. > > ___ > arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
[Arm-netbook] firefly 3399 all source software disclosed?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1771382379/firefly-rk3399-six-core-64-bit-high-performance-pl Has all source code for the computer been disclosed? Lkcl has says, he can make use of the rk3399 if he has the processor's data sheet. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1771382379/firefly-rk3399-six-core-64-bit-high-performance-pl/posts/1818477 What data about the rk3399 does lkcl not have? What is the performance of the rk3399 processor compared to a x86 dual core 2ghz? ___ arm-netbook mailing list arm-netbook@lists.phcomp.co.uk http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to arm-netb...@files.phcomp.co.uk
