Re: [Arm-netbook] New Open Access Journal for Open Source Hardware

2016-09-05 Thread Paul Boddie 
On Monday 5. September 2016 13.01.29 Tzafrir Cohen wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 10:31:59PM +0200, Paul Boddie wrote:
> > 
> > https://www.elsevier.com/about/company-information/policies/open-access-
> > licenses
> 
> This applies to the select few Elsevier publications that are
> open-access. Indeed what most peaple have against Elsevier is that most
> of their content is not open-access.

Indeed.

> PLOS will typically charge you even more. E.g. if your article managed
> to get published into PLOS ONE, you'd have to pay $1500[1]. This is
> because it's their only source of funding: they are a respectable
> open-access non-profit.
> 
> https://plos.org/publication-fees - even more for some of the others.

Yes, which unfortunately gives an excuse for various factions in universities 
to remain against open access because they can point at the costs and ask who 
will pay those fees. Meanwhile, the costs of other forms of publication are 
not questioned. The brand reputation of non-open-access journals is also 
brought to bear in such arguments.

But open access journals do need to be sustainable, certainly, and that does 
need to involve money coming from somewhere.

> > https://www.elsevier.com/about/company-information/policies/copyright
> > 
> > Elsevier, of course, gets additional rights. How else would they make all
> > that money?
> > 
> > http://theoryofcomputing.org/crisis.html
> > 
> > http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/academic-publisher-elsevier-hit-with-
> > growing-boycott-1.115
> 
> Again, this is an open-access Elsevier publication. Not the typical
> Elsevier publication.

Indeed. I did read those articles when I first came across them some years 
ago, otherwise I wouldn't have mentioned them. But my remarks are more about 
Elsevier than any specific journal.

If people think the referenced journal is a good channel to communicate open 
hardware things, they should follow their instinct and not let me stop them.

Paul

P.S. Does it matter what the larger publishing organisation does? I had one 
experience of being at a conference about text-mining where a representative 
for a big-name academic publisher said that they were going to have an API for 
their articles that would only provide a jumbled bag of words (and maybe only 
some of the words). They seemed to think this was a generous offer to the 
audience, many of whom probably wanted to do semantic analysis on the text. 
You can imagine what the reaction was. All because the matter of being the 
gatekeeper was more important than the knowledge being shared.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] New Open Access Journal for Open Source Hardware

2016-09-05 Thread Tzafrir Cohen 
On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 10:31:59PM +0200, Paul Boddie wrote:
> On Thursday 1. September 2016 20.04.58 Mike Leimon wrote:
> > Greetings all,
> > 
> > One of my friends brought this new open access journal to my attention this
> > morning. Apparently, it is just starting up now and looking for an initial
> > call for papers.
> > 
> > http://www.journals.elsevier.com/hardwarex/
> 
> It's interesting to know that Elsevier think it's worth "taking a punt" on 
> something like this, even though they publish books and journals on anything 
> and everything. It may help to get attention from a wider audience.
> 
> Personally, I have a low opinion of journal publishing, having seen the brand 
> obsession that pervades academia: publish a good article in a suitable 
> journal 
> that random assessors of the described work don't already know and there's no 
> recognition to be had; get in amongst the authors on an article about someone 
> else's work that gets into a "brand name" journal and suddenly you did 
> something worthwhile after all.
> 
> Combine that with "publication points" and other "productivity measures" 
> introduced to academia to make it more like the world of business and the 
> actual priorities of research and sharing knowledge take something of a back 
> seat.
> 
> And there are the long-disliked aspects of the peer-review process, which in 
> this case involve paying $500 to Elsevier ($100 special initial offer!) per 
> submitted article and then presumably having your work reviewed by people who 
> are doing the reviewing for free. The positive side of this is that the 
> copyright of articles seems to be retained by the author - unlike a lot of 
> journal publishing - and that the licences are mostly standard Creative 
> Commons ones (CC-BY and CC-BY-NC-ND):
> 
> https://www.elsevier.com/about/company-information/policies/open-access-
> licenses

This applies to the select few Elsevier publications that are
open-access. Indeed what most peaple have against Elsevier is that most
of their content is not open-access.

PLOS will typically charge you even more. E.g. if your article managed
to get published into PLOS ONE, you'd have to pay $1500[1]. This is
because it's their only source of funding: they are a respectable
open-access non-profit.

https://plos.org/publication-fees - even more for some of the others.

> 
> https://www.elsevier.com/about/company-information/policies/copyright
> 
> Elsevier, of course, gets additional rights. How else would they make all 
> that 
> money?
> 
> http://theoryofcomputing.org/crisis.html
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/academic-publisher-elsevier-hit-with-
> growing-boycott-1.115

Again, this is an open-access Elsevier publication. Not the typical
Elsevier publication.

-- 
Tzafrir Cohen | tzaf...@jabber.org | VIM is
http://tzafrir.org.il || a Mutt's
tzaf...@cohens.org.il ||  best
tzaf...@debian.org|| friend

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Re: [Arm-netbook] New Open Access Journal for Open Source Hardware

2016-09-01 Thread Paul Boddie 
On Thursday 1. September 2016 23.26.11 Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> 
>  which begs the question (bringing things back to a positive note) -
> so thank you to mike for raising this so that the idea can come about:
> why the heck don't we set up some sort of journal / conference at some
> point?  or find a suitable existing conference and ask them if they'd
> like to run a track.  fosdem2016 or something.  fosdem's big enough
> (but might also be too big already).

Yes, sorry once again to be negative, and thanks to Mike for bringing the 
journal to our attention! I just wanted to point out the pitfalls of such 
channels, although most people might start to suspect something as soon as the 
$100/$500 fee appears on their screens.

Some Free Software conferences have poster sessions, alongside the usual talks 
and tutorials. Once upon a time, EuroPython had a reviewed papers track, which 
I thought was very exotic for a community conference, but I guess it was an 
honest attempt to replicate that aspect of academic conferences.

Other kinds of conferences might also be relevant, of course. It might be 
easiest to start with the ones that share common interests and goals, however.

Paul

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Re: [Arm-netbook] New Open Access Journal for Open Source Hardware

2016-09-01 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68


On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 10:35 PM, Andrew M.A. Cater
 wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 10:26:11PM +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
>> ---
>> crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 9:31 PM, Paul Boddie  wrote:
>> > On Thursday 1. September 2016 20.04.58 Mike Leimon wrote:
>> >> Greetings all,
>> >>
>> >> One of my friends brought this new open access journal to my attention 
>> >> this
>> >> morning. Apparently, it is just starting up now and looking for an initial
>> >> call for papers.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.journals.elsevier.com/hardwarex/
>> >
>> > It's interesting to know that Elsevier think it's worth "taking a punt" on
>> > something like this, even though they publish books and journals on 
>> > anything
>> > and everything. It may help to get attention from a wider audience.
>>
>>  which begs the question (bringing things back to a positive note) -
>> so thank you to mike for raising this so that the idea can come about:
>> why the heck don't we set up some sort of journal / conference at some
>> point?  or find a suitable existing conference and ask them if they'd
>> like to run a track.  fosdem2016 or something.  fosdem's big enough
>> (but might also be too big already).
>>
>
> There's a mini-Debconf at ARM in Cambridge in November ...

 oo that'd be fun.  bit early.  i was thinking more along the lines of
after people have their pledges, so they have some opportunity to play
with them.

> Elzevier - avoid at all costs if you value freedom in any respect.
> Various scientific folks have begun to boycott them and publish
> in house or independent peer-reviewed publication.

 iiinteresting...

> FOSDEM might well be an option.

 it's around the right time - i may still be in the far east though.

l.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] New Open Access Journal for Open Source Hardware

2016-09-01 Thread Andrew M.A. Cater 
On Thu, Sep 01, 2016 at 10:26:11PM +0100, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
> ---
> crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68
> 
> 
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 9:31 PM, Paul Boddie  wrote:
> > On Thursday 1. September 2016 20.04.58 Mike Leimon wrote:
> >> Greetings all,
> >>
> >> One of my friends brought this new open access journal to my attention this
> >> morning. Apparently, it is just starting up now and looking for an initial
> >> call for papers.
> >>
> >> http://www.journals.elsevier.com/hardwarex/
> >
> > It's interesting to know that Elsevier think it's worth "taking a punt" on
> > something like this, even though they publish books and journals on anything
> > and everything. It may help to get attention from a wider audience.
> 
>  which begs the question (bringing things back to a positive note) -
> so thank you to mike for raising this so that the idea can come about:
> why the heck don't we set up some sort of journal / conference at some
> point?  or find a suitable existing conference and ask them if they'd
> like to run a track.  fosdem2016 or something.  fosdem's big enough
> (but might also be too big already).
> 

There's a mini-Debconf at ARM in Cambridge in November ...

Elzevier - avoid at all costs if you value freedom in any respect.
Various scientific folks have begun to boycott them and publish
in house or independent peer-reviewed publication.

FOSDEM might well be an option.


AndyC

> l.
> 
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Re: [Arm-netbook] New Open Access Journal for Open Source Hardware

2016-09-01 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68


On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 9:31 PM, Paul Boddie  wrote:
> On Thursday 1. September 2016 20.04.58 Mike Leimon wrote:
>> Greetings all,
>>
>> One of my friends brought this new open access journal to my attention this
>> morning. Apparently, it is just starting up now and looking for an initial
>> call for papers.
>>
>> http://www.journals.elsevier.com/hardwarex/
>
> It's interesting to know that Elsevier think it's worth "taking a punt" on
> something like this, even though they publish books and journals on anything
> and everything. It may help to get attention from a wider audience.

 which begs the question (bringing things back to a positive note) -
so thank you to mike for raising this so that the idea can come about:
why the heck don't we set up some sort of journal / conference at some
point?  or find a suitable existing conference and ask them if they'd
like to run a track.  fosdem2016 or something.  fosdem's big enough
(but might also be too big already).

l.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] New Open Access Journal for Open Source Hardware

2016-09-01 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 
On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 9:40 PM, Adam Van Ymeren  wrote:

> I thought he was being sarcastic when he said time for a religious war.
> Sounds like he was serious lol.

 i saw this phenomenon twice at hopeconf2016, after dr stallman's
talk.  two people - i had to stand next to one of them as i was next
in line for questions - whilst he shouted into the microphone at dr
stallman, to accuse him of hypocrisy... hypocrisy of what, the guy
didn't say... and it didn't matter: it allowed this guy the
opportunity to dismiss with prejudice everything he'd heard, thus
allowing him to return to the comfort of the compromises that he
clearly didn't like being made aware that he'd made without realising
it.

 why exactly this guy sat through an *entire 1hr30m talk* instead of
walking out half way through it in disgust (as opposed to sitting
still for 1hr30, getting up, shouting at dr stallman and *then*
walking out in disgust)... that will have to remain a hilarious
paradoxical mystery.

l.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] New Open Access Journal for Open Source Hardware

2016-09-01 Thread Adam Van Ymeren 
On 1 Sep 2016 3:45 p.m., "Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton" 
wrote:
>
> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 7:53 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
>  wrote:
>
> >  that's not very helpful, al.  please don't use sarcasm on this list
> > in a derogatory way, or distract me from fulfilling my promises.
> > there are plenty of other lists where that behaviour is acceptable:
> > this isn't one of them.
> >
> >  just a couple of hours ago i sent a message explaining i am dealing
> > with an enormous and completely overwhelming list of tasks in order to
> > fulfil the promises and committments that have just been made to over
> > 1,500 people.  i don't appreciate having to deal with sarcastic
> > remarks as a major distraction from any one of those tasks.
> >
> > i trust that that's really *really* clear.
>
>  faaackin 'ellfire, that guy was scary.  he emailed me off-list 10
> times in under 20 minutes.  i had to block him so as to prevent
> further net abuse.  just wasted over half an hour dealing with his
> demands instead of getting on with fulfilling the promises that i've
> made to everyone else.

I thought he was being sarcastic when he said time for a religious war.
Sounds like he was serious lol.

>
>  l.
>
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Re: [Arm-netbook] New Open Access Journal for Open Source Hardware

2016-09-01 Thread Paul Boddie 
On Thursday 1. September 2016 20.04.58 Mike Leimon wrote:
> Greetings all,
> 
> One of my friends brought this new open access journal to my attention this
> morning. Apparently, it is just starting up now and looking for an initial
> call for papers.
> 
> http://www.journals.elsevier.com/hardwarex/

It's interesting to know that Elsevier think it's worth "taking a punt" on 
something like this, even though they publish books and journals on anything 
and everything. It may help to get attention from a wider audience.

Personally, I have a low opinion of journal publishing, having seen the brand 
obsession that pervades academia: publish a good article in a suitable journal 
that random assessors of the described work don't already know and there's no 
recognition to be had; get in amongst the authors on an article about someone 
else's work that gets into a "brand name" journal and suddenly you did 
something worthwhile after all.

Combine that with "publication points" and other "productivity measures" 
introduced to academia to make it more like the world of business and the 
actual priorities of research and sharing knowledge take something of a back 
seat.

And there are the long-disliked aspects of the peer-review process, which in 
this case involve paying $500 to Elsevier ($100 special initial offer!) per 
submitted article and then presumably having your work reviewed by people who 
are doing the reviewing for free. The positive side of this is that the 
copyright of articles seems to be retained by the author - unlike a lot of 
journal publishing - and that the licences are mostly standard Creative 
Commons ones (CC-BY and CC-BY-NC-ND):

https://www.elsevier.com/about/company-information/policies/open-access-
licenses

https://www.elsevier.com/about/company-information/policies/copyright

Elsevier, of course, gets additional rights. How else would they make all that 
money?

http://theoryofcomputing.org/crisis.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/academic-publisher-elsevier-hit-with-
growing-boycott-1.115

> Ordinarily, I wouldn't have brought this up at all however, since it
> appears this is going to be an open access journal, I am thinking that it
> may in fact be handled in a manner that is compatible with the spirit and
> the goals of the EOMA-68 project. Given the readership of scholarly
> journals, an effort to get a publication about this new open hardware
> standard could result a lot of interest and adoption within the scientific
> community. Perhaps if that comes to fruition, we may see EOMA-68 cards
> adopted as components used within custom sensors or instrumentation.
> 
> Anyhow, I'd say looking into this may be worth at least a few minutes of
> time.

I don't disagree, despite what I wrote above, although I remain skeptical 
about the efficiency of such methods of informing and educating others. But I 
don't intend to tell anyone what to do with their time, and I appreciate you 
making us all aware of this.

Sorry to sound so negative above: it's a topic that can easily provoke a rant 
based on prior experiences and observations, especially in an academic 
context. I actually did contribute some articles to a genuine open access 
journal several years ago, and while I remain unconvinced of the effect those 
articles had, I did support the mission of that publication as a way of 
providing decent-quality material about the topic being covered.

Paul

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Re: [Arm-netbook] New Open Access Journal for Open Source Hardware

2016-09-01 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 
On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 7:53 PM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton
 wrote:

>  that's not very helpful, al.  please don't use sarcasm on this list
> in a derogatory way, or distract me from fulfilling my promises.
> there are plenty of other lists where that behaviour is acceptable:
> this isn't one of them.
>
>  just a couple of hours ago i sent a message explaining i am dealing
> with an enormous and completely overwhelming list of tasks in order to
> fulfil the promises and committments that have just been made to over
> 1,500 people.  i don't appreciate having to deal with sarcastic
> remarks as a major distraction from any one of those tasks.
>
> i trust that that's really *really* clear.

 faaackin 'ellfire, that guy was scary.  he emailed me off-list 10
times in under 20 minutes.  i had to block him so as to prevent
further net abuse.  just wasted over half an hour dealing with his
demands instead of getting on with fulfilling the promises that i've
made to everyone else.

 l.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] New Open Access Journal for Open Source Hardware

2016-09-01 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68


On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 7:30 PM, Al Billings  wrote:
> On 9/1/16 11:15 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote:
>>  they use the phrase "open source hardware".  as in, it's okay to
>> create hardware with built-in DRM locking, Tivoisation and other
>> unethical traps that are disguised as "open" but in fact mislead
>> people and entrap them.
>
> Oh look. It is time for a religious war.

 that's not very helpful, al.  please don't use sarcasm on this list
in a derogatory way, or distract me from fulfilling my promises.
there are plenty of other lists where that behaviour is acceptable:
this isn't one of them.

 just a couple of hours ago i sent a message explaining i am dealing
with an enormous and completely overwhelming list of tasks in order to
fulfil the promises and committments that have just been made to over
1,500 people.  i don't appreciate having to deal with sarcastic
remarks as a major distraction from any one of those tasks.

i trust that that's really *really* clear.

l.

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Re: [Arm-netbook] New Open Access Journal for Open Source Hardware

2016-09-01 Thread Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton 
---
crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68


On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 7:04 PM, Mike Leimon  wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
> One of my friends brought this new open access journal to my attention this
> morning. Apparently, it is just starting up now and looking for an initial
> call for papers.
>
> http://www.journals.elsevier.com/hardwarex/

 appreciated.

> Ordinarily, I wouldn't have brought this up at all however, since it appears
> this is going to be an open access journal, I am thinking that it may in
> fact be handled in a manner that is compatible with the spirit and the goals
> of the EOMA-68 project. Given the readership of scholarly journals, an
> effort to get a publication about this new open hardware standard could
> result a lot of interest and adoption within the scientific community.
> Perhaps if that comes to fruition, we may see EOMA-68 cards adopted as
> components used within custom sensors or instrumentation.
>
> Anyhow, I'd say looking into this may be worth at least a few minutes of
> time.

 did that it's associated with the "OSHWA".

 they use the phrase "open source hardware".  as in, it's okay to
create hardware with built-in DRM locking, Tivoisation and other
unethical traps that are disguised as "open" but in fact mislead
people and entrap them.

 if they change the name to "libre hardware" - where we then also have
to define "hardware" as well (as it could refer to silicon, designs,
casework, or even just to "the manufacture of spoons" - nothing to do
with computers at all) i'll be more inclined to be involved.

 as it is i have so much to do over the next few months that i have to
decline... much as i am grateful that you brought it up, mike.  if
anyone else feels confident about writing something and presenting it
please feel free, i'll be happy to review it.

l.

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