Re: A Short Review of *Hard Heads, Soft Hearts*
In a message dated 12/3/02 2:51:56 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: "'As Machiavelli pointed out, no one is willing to admit the debt that they incure to those who choose option #1. -jsh' What debt is that?" Exactly. >> No, seriously, how do I benefit others by begging? Do I give them a needed sense of superiority? Or do I serve as an excuse for government to steal your money and give it to bureaucrats in the name of helping me?
Re: A Short Review of *Hard Heads, Soft Hearts*
In a message dated 12/3/02 2:51:15 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << --- david friedman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "My point is that moral worthiness isn't being predicated of the newborn infant or fertilized ovum but of the adult that it turned into. Whatever the reasons are that I am cruel and dishonest, cruel and dishonest people deserve to have bad things happen to them. That, at least, is a moral intuition that many people find convincing." Well put. I'm not an existentialist, but I do agree to at least some extent that we make our own moral choices. My point is merely that, since some of who we become is the product of things outside of our control, even hard-hearted* policies should have a soft edge. -jsh >> Well let's say that it turns out that my poverty isn't due to my laziness and weakness, as my family always thought, and instead because I have obsessive compulsive disorder, manic depression (called "biploar disorder" by the politically correct these days), attention deficit disorder and a panic disorder (apparently there's more than one so I'm not sure which one I might have). We might all agree that I deserve better than what I've been able to manage for myself and that I didn't ask to be a bundle of mental illnesses. Now how does any of that give me the right to point a gun at you and force you to give me your money? Since I don't have that right myself, how could I possibly delegate it to the government to extort money from you on my behalf? It's certainly not your fault I'm a basket case. DBL
Zimbabwe
Nice piece from the Economist, posted by Brad DeLong, on the insanity of economic policies in Zimbabwe. It's like something out of the dark ages, i.e. the 1960s and 70s. Alex http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/archives/001179.html -- Alexander Tabarrok Department of Economics, MSN 1D3 George Mason University Fairfax, VA, 22030 Tel. 703-993-2314 and Director of Research The Independent Institute 100 Swan Way Oakland, CA, 94621 Tel. 510-632-1366
Re: Bottle Deposits
I'm in Michigan. I could have sworn that there was a one cent deposit in California. Maybe I'm mistaken. -jsh --- Anton Sherwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > john hull wrote: > > I have nothing economic to offer, but only the > > observation that the effects of having bottle > deposits > > have been striking. I recall as a kid that litter > in > > the form of bottles and cans was ubiquitous, now > > returnable are rarely seen as litter. Bottles > that > > don't have deposits associated with them, such as > > bottled water, I see not infrequently on the > ground. > > In California, I have no idea where to turn my > bottles in. > (Haven't noticed whether the distribution of litter > has changed; > the deposit law came in two or three years after I > moved here.) > > Where are you? > > -- > Anton Sherwood, http://www.ogre.nu/ > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: A Short Review of *Hard Heads, Soft Hearts*
I apologize for being flip. I hope I did at least get a smile. Seriously, I think that I tend to believe, and I think what Machiavelli was driving at, is that in a free society we all agree to participate peacefully and not try to usurp power and authority. The 2000 election was a good example, in my limited judgement, because it seems that in many places (and eras) an event like that could have easily occasioned serious violence. The logical leap to the case of the bum I assume is my own. I cannot ask Machiavelli how he feels about it. When I see a bum begging, it seems to me that he could just as easily prey on innocent people as pray for their goodwill. Of course, one could argue that the penalty for crime is severe and it is better to be an honest beggar than an inmate. I question the weight of this argument since crime (for lack of a better term) seems to be endemic to the human condition. The peaceful beggar doesn't seem to benefit too greatly from society's largesse. Through a series of bad decisions, a few strokes of bad luck, or an inability to obtain adequate mental health care, inter alia, he has become homeless and remedy has not been obtained--since he remains homeless. Yet he still participates in civic society. Were I in his place, I'm not so sure I'd be so civil. This does not make the bum "superior" to me. I could easily view him as a non-productive blight offensive to the eye and (yuck!) nose, and seek to have him banished through my influence with the polity or by threats and harassment. But I don't. Hence, I consider the debt to be reciprocal. Does that make sense? It's one of those things that is difficult for me to put into words. To put another way, "every civil member of a free and civic society owes a debt to every other civil member" seems to me to be a guideline far superior to the Golden Rule. -jsh --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > In a message dated 12/3/02 2:51:56 AM, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > << --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > "'As Machiavelli pointed out, no one is willing to > admit the debt that they incure to those who choose > option #1. > -jsh' > What debt is that?" > > Exactly. >> > > No, seriously, how do I benefit others by begging? > Do I give them a needed > sense of superiority? Or do I serve as an excuse > for government to steal > your money and give it to bureaucrats in the name of > helping me? > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: A Short Review of *Hard Heads, Soft Hearts*
If you really believe that taxation by a representative (and constitutional) government is equivalent to putting a gun to one's head, then we have a lot of issues regarding the nature, legitimacy, and role of government to work out before we can fruitfully address the current question. That has not been said in any pejorative sense; I have great respect for your opinion. -jsh --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > In a message dated 12/3/02 2:51:15 AM, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > << --- david friedman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > "My point is that moral worthiness isn't being > predicated of the newborn infant or fertilized ovum > but of the adult that it turned into. Whatever the > reasons are that I am cruel and dishonest, cruel and > dishonest people deserve to have bad things happen > to > them. That, at least, is a moral intuition that many > people find convincing." > > Well put. I'm not an existentialist, but I do agree > to at least some extent that we make our own moral > choices. > > My point is merely that, since some of who we become > is the product of things outside of our control, > even > hard-hearted* policies should have a soft edge. > > -jsh >> > > Well let's say that it turns out that my poverty > isn't due to my laziness and > weakness, as my family always thought, and instead > because I have obsessive > compulsive disorder, manic depression (called > "biploar disorder" by the > politically correct these days), attention deficit > disorder and a panic > disorder (apparently there's more than one so I'm > not sure which one I might > have). We might all agree that I deserve better > than what I've been able to > manage for myself and that I didn't ask to be a > bundle of mental illnesses. > Now how does any of that give me the right to point > a gun at you and force > you to give me your money? Since I don't have that > right myself, how could I > possibly delegate it to the government to extort > money from you on my behalf? > It's certainly not your fault I'm a basket case. > > DBL > __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
RE: A Short Review of *Hard Heads, Soft Hearts*
Hi there. I'm not sure where the Machiavelli quote comes from, but are you sure he wasn't arguing, by a kind of appeal to majority opinion, that there is no debt to people who have done no wrong? Here's his quote again as you copied it: "...for no one admits that he incurs an obligation to another merely because that other has done him no wrong." -Machiavelli, Discourses on Livy, Discourse 16. And here's your paraphrase: "As Machiavelli pointed out, no one is willing to admit the debt that they incure to those who choose option #1." [option #1 being someone's choice to be a peaceful vagrant as opposed to a violent criminal] See, Machiavelli says that people aren't willing to admit THAT they have a debt; you say no one is willing to admit this debt. In your summation, you assume that there is such a debt, and that people aren't willing to admit it. Machiavelli states simply that people aren't willing to admit something. He makes no claims about whether that something does or does not exist. Indeed, given no other information, that might lead one to believe that Machiavelli is saying, "No one in his right mind believes such a debt exists." Am I missing something crucial not having read the context of that quote? Akilesh > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > On Behalf Of john hull > Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 12:53 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: A Short Review of *Hard Heads, Soft Hearts* > > > I apologize for being flip. I hope I did at least get > a smile. > > Seriously, I think that I tend to believe, and I think > what Machiavelli was driving at, is that in a free > society we all agree to participate peacefully and not > try to usurp power and authority. The 2000 election > was a good example, in my limited judgement, because > it seems that in many places (and eras) an event like > that could have easily occasioned serious violence. > > The logical leap to the case of the bum I assume is my > own. I cannot ask Machiavelli how he feels about it. > When I see a bum begging, it seems to me that he could > just as easily prey on innocent people as pray for > their goodwill. Of course, one could argue that the > penalty for crime is severe and it is better to be an > honest beggar than an inmate. I question the weight > of this argument since crime (for lack of a better > term) seems to be endemic to the human condition. > > The peaceful beggar doesn't seem to benefit too > greatly from society's largesse. Through a series of > bad decisions, a few strokes of bad luck, or an > inability to obtain adequate mental health care, inter > alia, he has become homeless and remedy has not been > obtained--since he remains homeless. Yet he still > participates in civic society. Were I in his place, I'm not > so sure I'd be so civil. > > This does not make the bum "superior" to me. I could > easily view him as a non-productive blight offensive > to the eye and (yuck!) nose, and seek to have him > banished through my influence with the polity or by > threats and harassment. But I don't. Hence, I > consider the debt to be reciprocal. > > Does that make sense? It's one of those things that > is difficult for me to put into words. To put another > way, "every civil member of a free and civic society > owes a debt to every other civil member" seems to me > to be a guideline far superior to the Golden Rule. > > -jsh > > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > In a message dated 12/3/02 2:51:56 AM, > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > > << --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > "'As Machiavelli pointed out, no one is willing to > > admit the debt that they incure to those who choose > > option #1. > > -jsh' > > What debt is that?" > > > > Exactly. >> > > > > No, seriously, how do I benefit others by begging? > > Do I give them a needed > > sense of superiority? Or do I serve as an excuse > > for government to steal > > your money and give it to bureaucrats in the name of > > helping me? > > > > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > >
Re: Bottle Deposits
john hull wrote: > I'm in Michigan. > I could have sworn that there was a one cent deposit > in California. Maybe I'm mistaken. I think it's a nickel - but either way, there's no obvious way to recover it. -- Anton Sherwood, http://www.ogre.nu/
Re: Bottle Deposits
--- Anton Sherwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: "I think it's a nickel - but either way, there's no obvious way to recover it." I can see how that wouldn't encourage recycling. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
University overhead
Do universities compete over the overhead they charge? For example, when wooing senior faculty, is it ever the case that universities offer lower overhead for big projects? Fabio
