Re: [armchair] Re: spamonomics
In a message dated 1/22/04 2:12:02 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >--- Ron Baty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Fraud "should not" be part of the market but always has been and will >> likely continue to be part of any realistic market > >A pure market consists of voluntary economic acts, and theft, including >fraud, has involuntary victims, so fraud is outside the pure free market. > >You are really saying that there will always be attacks on property rights; >but these are violations of rather than "part of" a pure market. > >> In a "free market economy" how would you eliminate fraud without >> limiting the free market or changing human nature? > >Of course no policy can "eliminate" fraud; rather, optimal policy seeks >to >minimize the net social cost of fraud. > >> And is it not the presence of "fraud", using a broad definition, that >> enhances the effect of reputation in market exchanges. > >I don't see why that would be the case. I think rather that it's the effect of reputation in market exchanges that reduces the incidence of fraud. David Levenstam
Re: spamonomics
Wow, I was going to respond that I've almost never gotten an email for insurance, and then decided not to clutter up the list. When I checked my new mail again, however, I found an ad for insurance! That reminded me that in fact I have gotten many emails, mostly for cheap health insurance. David In a message dated 1/22/04 11:34:07 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >Christopher Auld wrote: >> . . . Merchants who think >> I might be keen to see Paris Hilton perform intimate acts are third on >the >> list. Followed closely by offers from extremely respectable officials >in >> Nigeria . . . . > >For me these days, smut comes after services for insurance brokers.
Re: [armchair] Re: spamonomics
>> Fraud is not part of the market. >> Fred Foldvary --- Ron Baty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Fraud "should not" be part of the market but always has been and will > likely continue to be part of any realistic market A pure market consists of voluntary economic acts, and theft, including fraud, has involuntary victims, so fraud is outside the pure free market. You are really saying that there will always be attacks on property rights; but these are violations of rather than "part of" a pure market. > In a "free market economy" how would you eliminate fraud without > limiting the free market or changing human nature? Of course no policy can "eliminate" fraud; rather, optimal policy seeks to minimize the net social cost of fraud. > And is it not the presence of "fraud", using a broad definition, that > enhances the effect of reputation in market exchanges. I don't see why that would be the case. Fred Foldvary
Re: [armchair] Re: spamonomics
- Original Message - From: "Fred Foldvary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 5:50 PM Subject: [armchair] Re: spamonomics --- rex <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm going home to my computer!" So, the FDA, and our socialized medical > system is part of it. Give thanks for the internet and a the "free > market economy" it provides. Fraud is not part of the market. Fred Foldvary Fraud "should not" be part of the market but always has been and will likely continue to be part of any realistic market as long as there are people involved. In a "free market economy" how would you eliminate fraud without limiting the free market or changing human nature? And is it not the presence of "fraud", using a broad definition, that enhances the effect of reputation in market exchanges. Ron B [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: spamonomics
Christopher Auld wrote: > . . . Merchants who think > I might be keen to see Paris Hilton perform intimate acts are third on the > list. Followed closely by offers from extremely respectable officials in > Nigeria . . . . For me these days, smut comes after services for insurance brokers. -- Anton Sherwood, http://www.ogre.nu/
Re: spamonomics
> In a message dated 1/21/04 3:34:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > >I was so ignorant, until last month I thought "Paris Hilton" was a > >hotel in France > > > >;-) > > Paris Hilton is both a hotel in France AND desert topping! (from an old > Saturday Night Live skit "it's both a floor wax AND a desert topping!") Is a "desert topping" what they put on the Mojave and the Sahara? > Seriously though, I had no idea who she was when I first started getting > emails offering to let me see her private activities. Not until I caught an > episode of that "reality" how called (I think) "The Simple Life" featuring Paris > and her buddy, Nichole Richie (Lionel Richie's daughter) did I know who she was. And people wonder why I don't watch TV ;-) --Robert
Re: spamonomics
In a message dated 1/21/04 3:34:42 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >I was so ignorant, until last month I thought "Paris Hilton" was a >hotel in France > >;-) Paris Hilton is both a hotel in France AND desert topping! (from an old Saturday Night Live skit "it's both a floor wax AND a desert topping!") Seriously though, I had no idea who she was when I first started getting emails offering to let me see her private activities. Not until I caught an episode of that "reality" how called (I think) "The Simple Life" featuring Paris and her buddy, Nichole Richie (Lionel Richie's daughter) did I know who she was. At least when they used to send emails offering Pamela Anderson's sex video I knew who she was. David
Re: spamonomics
I've seen almost exactly the same distribution. As a first impression, I wonder if the Nigeria scam doesn't employ the same anonymity (from the other side) that recipients of the first three types of emails value. Tracking down a scam online might well prove more difficult than doing so over the phone, especially in these days of caller ID. The ease of mass mailings might also make email a more effective means of perpetrating a scam. I wonder too if people don't tend to believe what they read over the Internet a bit more than they do other forms of communication. When radio and films were relatively new, people tended to believe what they heard and saw. There seems to have been something of a learning curve for large populations which took them from blind faith in the 1930s to intense skepticism in the 1990s. Perhaps the same sort of thing will happen with the Internet. I know that people often pass along without any sort of verification myriad emails claiming such things as Bill Gates will pay you if you test some software or website, Bill gates will bill you if you use some software or website, Mel Gibson grew up disfigured and in poverty, people will steal your kidneys and leave you in a bathtub full of ice, etc. Perhaps oarge groups of internet users will climb up the learning curve and we'll see a reduction in Nigerian scams. David
Re: spamonomics
--- rex <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm going home to my computer!" So, the FDA, and our socialized medical > system is part of it. Give thanks for the internet and a the "free > market economy" it provides. Fraud is not part of the market. Fred Foldvary
Re: [armchair] Re: spamonomics
--- Gil Guillory <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is there a case for legalizing the sale of placebos, as long as > money-back guarantees are given? No. If something is sold as a medicine while it is really a placebo, that is fraud, hence theft. The customer may not realize he has been cheated. Fred Foldvary
Re: spamonomics
--- Christopher Auld <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Followed closely by offers from extremely respectable officials in > Nigeria who will give me hundreds of thousands of dollars merely for > sending them my chequing account information. > One can see how the first three products are highly complementary, > but I don't see how the third relates. The complementarity is the belief in magic, that one can create something out of nothing, getting rich without work effort or getting something for your body beyond the natural possibilities frontier. This ultimately comes from parents teaching children that there is magic, e.g. Santa Claus and the tooth fairy. If parents would keep it real with children, children would be less likely to belive in getting something for nothing or something beyond the possibility frontier. Fred Foldvary
Re: spamonomics
I was so ignorant, until last month I thought "Paris Hilton" was a hotel in France ;-) > Casual empiricism suggests that after Viagra, highly effective penis > enlargement products are the next most common pitch. Merchants who think > I might be keen to see Paris Hilton perform intimate acts are third on the > list. Followed closely by offers from extremely respectable officials in > Nigeria who will give me hundreds of thousands of dollars merely for > sending them my chequing account information. > > One can see how the first three products are highly complementary, > but I don't see how the third relates. > > > Sincerely (?), > > Chris Auld > Department of Economics > University of Calgary > [EMAIL PROTECTED] >
Re: spamonomics
Casual empiricism suggests that after Viagra, highly effective penis enlargement products are the next most common pitch. Merchants who think I might be keen to see Paris Hilton perform intimate acts are third on the list. Followed closely by offers from extremely respectable officials in Nigeria who will give me hundreds of thousands of dollars merely for sending them my chequing account information. One can see how the first three products are highly complementary, but I don't see how the third relates. Sincerely (?), Chris Auld Department of Economics University of Calgary [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [armchair] Re: spamonomics
Many drugs and herbal blends sold over the internet come with money-back guarantees. While collecting money might be hard in some cases, it is in theory quite simple for them to charge back your credit card. And, considering the case of the sugar-pill, if it works, then it's a modern miracle of a free market truly economizing. Is there a case for legalizing the sale of placebos, as long as money-back guarantees are given? Gil Guillory, P.E. Principal Engineer KBR Tower, KT-3131B email [EMAIL PROTECTED] ph. 713-753-8797 fax 713-753-6266 -Original Message- From: ArmChair List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ron Baty Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 11:38 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [armchair] Re: spamonomics Aside from the legitimate economic reasons for v!gra spam I would offer that the mark-up on "sugar pills" marketed as v!agra is quite high. Quality control is a significant problem when buying any drug over the internet, that is what are you actually receiving? The brain is our largest sex organ, this enhances the placebo effect of taking a drug you think is V!agra. If you are taking it for a non-medical reason, sexual enhancement, you potentially may never notice that its not actually V!agra. Additionally, people who buy v!agra for non-medical uses are not likely to complain of any problems with their purchase. Ron B. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "john hull" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 8:15 AM Subject: [armchair] Re: spamonomics "I would. It happens all the time." So what are the methodologies of the auto-erotic reporting studies and how are they flawed? __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
Re: [armchair] Re: spamonomics
Aside from the legitimate economic reasons for v!gra spam I would offer that the mark-up on "sugar pills" marketed as v!agra is quite high. Quality control is a significant problem when buying any drug over the internet, that is what are you actually receiving? The brain is our largest sex organ, this enhances the placebo effect of taking a drug you think is V!agra. If you are taking it for a non-medical reason, sexual enhancement, you potentially may never notice that its not actually V!agra. Additionally, people who buy v!agra for non-medical uses are not likely to complain of any problems with their purchase. Ron B. [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: "john hull" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 8:15 AM Subject: [armchair] Re: spamonomics "I would. It happens all the time." So what are the methodologies of the auto-erotic reporting studies and how are they flawed? __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
Re: spamonomics
I guess the basic objection is that people will not talk about their sexual behavior honestly. The usual assumption is that men will exaggerate and women will understate their experiences. You can read Edward Laumann's book about how the surveys are conducted. They spent a lot of time designing the questionnaires and training the interviewers. It's too much to summarize and explain here. I am not sure that I am convinced entirely, but I think they reduced the bias significantly. The citation is: The Social Organization of Sexuality: Sexual Practices in the United States. Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1994. (With John H. Gagnon, Robert T. Michael and Stuart Michaels.) His recent work on China is really interesting for economists in that as part of the survey they were able to get urine samples from most of the participants. They found exceptionally low rates of STDs everywhere in the population, except for businessmen, who had very high rates. It seem that these men frequent brothels during their travels and engage in unprotected sex. Laumann argues that this is very dangerous because the economic elite of China has a sexual Achilles's heel, and that it is only a matter of time before HIV becomes prevalent in this group. DVM On Wed, 21 Jan 2004, john hull wrote: > "I would. It happens all the time." > > So what are the methodologies of the auto-erotic > reporting studies and how are they flawed? > > __ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes > http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus > ___ Dimitriy V. Masterov Work: Center for Social Program Evaluation 1155 East 60th St. Room 038 Chicago, IL 60637 Work: (773)256-6005 Fax: (773)256-6313 Home: 1312 East 53rd St., Apt.309 Chicago, IL 60615 Mobile: (773)220-2760
Re: spamonomics
"I would. It happens all the time." So what are the methodologies of the auto-erotic reporting studies and how are they flawed? __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
Re: spamonomics
In a message dated 1/20/04 7:10:03 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >AdmrlLocke wrote: > >"People who engage in more sexual activity and >alternative sexual lifestyles might feel less >embarassed about admitting to auto-erotica than >others, so the results might contain a great deal of >skew." > >But should we think that an obvious possible bias >would not be accounted for? I would. It happens all the time.
Re: spamonomics
AdmrlLocke wrote: "People who engage in more sexual activity and alternative sexual lifestyles might feel less embarassed about admitting to auto-erotica than others, so the results might contain a great deal of skew." But should we think that an obvious possible bias would not be accounted for? __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
Re: spamonomics
On 2004-01-20, Bryan Caplan uttered: >Why is such a high fraction of spam devoted to selling impotence >treatments? One possible explanation is that there aren't too many drugs which a broad segment of the population want, which they can't get because they'd need a prescription, which have semi-mythical (in this case aphrodisiac) properties, yet do not carry a harsh punishment for import, distribution or marketing. Potency drugs fit the description. >Are there really impotent guys who make an impulse purchase of v!agra >because they got some spam? Probably not. The spam is probably aimed at healthy males who think they can somehow benefit from a super-erection. -- Sampo Syreeni, aka decoy - mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED], tel:+358-50-5756111 student/math+cs/helsinki university, http://www.iki.fi/~decoy/front openpgp: 050985C2/025E D175 ABE5 027C 9494 EEB0 E090 8BA9 0509 85C2
Re: spamonomics
Even under a totally free market system a doctor or pharmacist might caution a prospective purchaser of V!agra against using it without first getting certain medical tests. David In a message dated 1/20/04 3:25:18 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >Your interesting question reminds me: A fellow remarked to me the other >day > >that he told his regular doctor that he felt he "needed" some v!agra. >Well, > >the doc starts explaining how the patient will have to undergo blood tests, > >which will then be evaluated by the doctor, to figure out if there is some > >other problem, or a better route to "solve" the "problem" with additional > >visits, etc. blah blah blah. you get the picture -the usual prudent doctor > >protocol. So all the while the patient is thinking in his head "f#*k you! > >I'm going home to my computer!" So, the FDA, and our socialized medical > >system is part of it. Give thanks for the internet and a the "free market > >economy" it provides.
Re: spamonomics
People who engage in more sexual activity and alternative sexual lifestyles might feel less embarassed about admitting to auto-erotica than others, so the results might contain a great deal of skew. David In a message dated 1/20/04 2:07:31 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >You might complain that porn is a substitute, and not a complement, to >sexual activity, but I don't think this is the case. Survey microdata >collected by Edward Laumann reveals that Americans do not >use pornography to compensate for lack of sexual contact. In fact, >autoerotic behavior (which lumps together everything from attending strip >clubs to phone sex to masturbation) is associated with higher levels of >partnered sexual activity. Both men and women who are highly autoerotic >are more likely to have multiple sexual partners in a short period of >time. Moreover, use of pornography is highly correlated with diversity >of >sexual practices. All this suggests that such consumers might actually >require v!agra given their heightened sexual behavior.
Re: spamonomics
Even under a totally free market system a doctor or pharmacist might caution a prospective purchaser of Viagra against using it without first getting certain medical tests. In a message dated 1/20/04 3:25:18 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >Your interesting question reminds me: A fellow remarked to me the other >day > >that he told his regular doctor that he felt he "needed" some v!agra. >Well, > >the doc starts explaining how the patient will have to undergo blood tests, > >which will then be evaluated by the doctor, to figure out if there is some > >other problem, or a better route to "solve" the "problem" with additional > >visits, etc. blah blah blah. you get the picture -the usual prudent doctor > >protocol. So all the while the patient is thinking in his head "f#*k you! > >I'm going home to my computer!" So, the FDA, and our socialized medical > >system is part of it. Give thanks for the internet and a the "free market > >economy" it provides. > > > >http://rexcurry.net
Re: spamonomics
Your interesting question reminds me: A fellow remarked to me the other day that he told his regular doctor that he felt he "needed" some v!agra. Well, the doc starts explaining how the patient will have to undergo blood tests, which will then be evaluated by the doctor, to figure out if there is some other problem, or a better route to "solve" the "problem" with additional visits, etc. blah blah blah. you get the picture -the usual prudent doctor protocol. So all the while the patient is thinking in his head "f#*k you! I'm going home to my computer!" So, the FDA, and our socialized medical system is part of it. Give thanks for the internet and a the "free market economy" it provides. http://rexcurry.net
Re: spamonomics
"Are there really impotent guys who make an impulse purchase of v!agra because they got some spam?" It seems that I've heard of recreational use of V!agra, i.e. non-impotent men use it. I suppose they could be a potential market, since that way they don't have to prove/claim impotence to a doctor. __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus
Re: spamonomics
I suspect the fact that many people use the internet to view pornography makes contemporaneous v!agra spam fairly effective. If consumer decisions are susceptible to situational cues and entrepreneurs exploit this feature of preferences, aroused people will purchase large quantities of v!agra. You might complain that porn is a substitute, and not a complement, to sexual activity, but I don't think this is the case. Survey microdata collected by Edward Laumann reveals that Americans do not use pornography to compensate for lack of sexual contact. In fact, autoerotic behavior (which lumps together everything from attending strip clubs to phone sex to masturbation) is associated with higher levels of partnered sexual activity. Both men and women who are highly autoerotic are more likely to have multiple sexual partners in a short period of time. Moreover, use of pornography is highly correlated with diversity of sexual practices. All this suggests that such consumers might actually require v!agra given their heightened sexual behavior. Dimitriy V. Masterov
Re: spamonomics
Simple - you can anonymously buy impotence treatment over the Internet. No need to tell a real person that you ahve a sexual problem. I've also heard people use v!agra for enhancing sexual experience, not too cure a medical problem. Those people probably want to avoid doctors. Fabio On Tue, 20 Jan 2004, Bryan Caplan wrote: > Why is such a high fraction of spam devoted to selling impotence > treatments? Are there really impotent guys who make an impulse purchase > of v!agra because they got some spam? > > P.S. I killfile everything spelled v-i-a-g-r-a in the title or body, so > let's call it v!agra for this discussion. > -- > Prof. Bryan Caplan > Department of Economics George Mason University > http://www.bcaplan.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > "I hope this has taught you kids a lesson: kids never learn." > > --Chief Wiggum, *The Simpsons* >
spamonomics
Why is such a high fraction of spam devoted to selling impotence treatments? Are there really impotent guys who make an impulse purchase of v!agra because they got some spam? P.S. I killfile everything spelled v-i-a-g-r-a in the title or body, so let's call it v!agra for this discussion. -- Prof. Bryan Caplan Department of Economics George Mason University http://www.bcaplan.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] "I hope this has taught you kids a lesson: kids never learn." --Chief Wiggum, *The Simpsons*
