Re: OT: Contract vs FTE
I thought I would chime in on this thread... I have been in the Remedy consulting world since 1997. I have pretty much seen it all, including my share of poorely executed and excellent implementations by both other contractors and FTEs. I don't think anyone can say whether a better job is done by an FTE or contractor, in my experience it all comes down to the quality of the individual(s) doing the work. My foray into the consulting/contracting work was a personal choice due to limited opportunities for growth in my FTE company after 8 years. Everyone thought I was crazy at the time, especially with a 5 year old and a 2 year old at home and being the sole bread-winner for the family, but I have never looked back. In my experience, Remedy ITSM consultants/contractors either fall into this area by personal choice or through circumstance (ie. they are let go by their FTE organization). They can be let go either by company downsizing or because of performance reasons. I can't begin to tell you the number of Remedy Consultants I have met in the industry that fall into the latter category. It infuriates me as it paints all of us with the same brush, but you have to accept the fact that you can only control your own destiny. That's when guys like Ray have to come in an fix the mess. If you are a company that is thinking of employing a contractor/consultant, I would encourage you to ask them how they got into the business. It might give you some additional information when screening candidates. :-) As was mentioned, it is true that a lot of the organizations implementing ITSM are looking for the kick start to get them going (through contractors/consultants), then pass onto FTEs for operational support. It makes a lot of sense if your organization uses contractors/consultants wisely. This includes a defined project scope, exit plan for the contractor/consultant (including training/knowledge transfer), and warranty (if you can get it). To answer Ray's question, the pro's associated with this type of work is the dynamic nature of the work, new people/organizations/business challenges, lack of internal politics associated with organizations (ie. this is usually done before you arrive on site), and the compensation. The con's are, as you would probably think, the travel (also a plus for some), constant learning and education, and managing your contracts . As in any environment, excellent communication skills will enhance your opportunities to succeed. HTH Terry On 2014-08-07 00:29, Ray Gellenbeck wrote: Thanks. I've always been a FTE since I started in 96. The growing trend seems to be client hopes for a short deploy/customize contract gig then drop the SME and then hope a cheaper admin can keep it running. The beauty of that dream is then when that flops they hire an old codger like me to undo the mess, which runs 2-3 times longer on average. Anyway, I was just taken back how many recruiters hit you up for contract-only gigs these days. I've always said pass but wonder about the pros/con's in the current market. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org [1] Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years Links: -- [1] http://www.arslist.org ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: OT: Contract vs FTE
Ray- Personally I was FTE for 11 years and then did just over a year on a DoD contract. I found that the contractor's life is not for me, at least not government contracts. I never did any private sector contracting so it may be different in that environment. Personally I prefer the stability of FTE and I like working with the same team for many years. I also get exposed to a lot more technologies than just Remedy so while my skillset may not be as deep as a lot of folks on the list regarding Remedy it is probably broader than many. I also don't have the personality or patience to be able to weather the occasional gap between contracts, both mentally and budget-wise. YMMV. -Rick -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Ray Gellenbeck Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 9:29 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: OT: Contract vs FTE Thanks. I've always been a FTE since I started in 96. The growing trend seems to be client hopes for a short deploy/customize contract gig then drop the SME and then hope a cheaper admin can keep it running. The beauty of that dream is then when that flops they hire an old codger like me to undo the mess, which runs 2-3 times longer on average. Anyway, I was just taken back how many recruiters hit you up for contract-only gigs these days. I've always said pass but wonder about the pros/con's in the current market. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: OT: Contract vs FTE
I've spent my 18 years in Remedy doing both FTE and Consulting work. There are some obvious differences, like the amount of travel, but the biggest differences are in the scope of work. As a consultant, you usually have a defined timeline, and you work with the customer to define a scope that can be delivered within that schedule. My #1 rule of consulting is that the customer can define the scope or the schedule, but not both. I get whichever one they don't want. The bottom line is that we need to agree on what a completed project looks like, and then I need to execute against that definition. As an FTE, you can be working on one thing one day, then some new corporate direction can have you drop that and start something different. Deliverables tend to be more easily fit into Other duties as assigned, simply because you've agreed to that when you hired on. Because consultant $$ tend to be more thoughtfully spent (in most places), there is less of that. My decision to leave consulting a couple of years ago was difficult, because I loved what I was doing and the people with whom I worked, but was borne of two things: A need - calling, really - to spend more than 2 weekends a month at home, and the increasing cost of providing my own health insurance. The combination of my aging family and the intrusion of the ACA plans was going to triple my out of pocket costs within a year. That substantially narrowed the net income gap between an FTE position with benefits and a straight 1099 without any. Given the ridiculously low rates some people are offering for Remedy talent these days, I think I made the right call for me. YMMV. Rick On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 7:18 AM, Terry Bootsma tboot...@objectpath.com wrote: ** I thought I would chime in on this thread... I have been in the Remedy consulting world since 1997. I have pretty much seen it all, including my share of poorely executed and excellent implementations by both other contractors and FTEs. I don't think anyone can say whether a better job is done by an FTE or contractor, in my experience it all comes down to the quality of the individual(s) doing the work. My foray into the consulting/contracting work was a personal choice due to limited opportunities for growth in my FTE company after 8 years. Everyone thought I was crazy at the time, especially with a 5 year old and a 2 year old at home and being the sole bread-winner for the family, but I have never looked back. In my experience, Remedy ITSM consultants/contractors either fall into this area by personal choice or through circumstance (ie. they are let go by their FTE organization). They can be let go either by company downsizing or because of performance reasons. I can't begin to tell you the number of Remedy Consultants I have met in the industry that fall into the latter category. It infuriates me as it paints all of us with the same brush, but you have to accept the fact that you can only control your own destiny. That's when guys like Ray have to come in an fix the mess. If you are a company that is thinking of employing a contractor/consultant, I would encourage you to ask them how they got into the business. It might give you some additional information when screening candidates. :-) As was mentioned, it is true that a lot of the organizations implementing ITSM are looking for the kick start to get them going (through contractors/consultants), then pass onto FTEs for operational support. It makes a lot of sense if your organization uses contractors/consultants wisely. This includes a defined project scope, exit plan for the contractor/consultant (including training/knowledge transfer), and warranty (if you can get it). To answer Ray's question, the pro's associated with this type of work is the dynamic nature of the work, new people/organizations/business challenges, lack of internal politics associated with organizations (ie. this is usually done before you arrive on site), and the compensation. The con's are, as you would probably think, the travel (also a plus for some), constant learning and education, and managing your contracts . As in any environment, excellent communication skills will enhance your opportunities to succeed. HTH Terry On 2014-08-07 00:29, Ray Gellenbeck wrote: Thanks. I've always been a FTE since I started in 96. The growing trend seems to be client hopes for a short deploy/customize contract gig then drop the SME and then hope a cheaper admin can keep it running. The beauty of that dream is then when that flops they hire an old codger like me to undo the mess, which runs 2-3 times longer on average. Anyway, I was just taken back how many recruiters hit you up for contract-only gigs these days. I've always said pass but wonder about the pros/con's in the current market. ___
Re: OT: Contract vs FTE
I did Remedy Consulting/Development/Training as a RAC/Certified Trainer, from 1999 - 2006, I have been a FTE since 2006 Pros - $$, Experience, Exposure, Variety, Travel, Customers who wanted to get something done (Motivated) Cons - Travel (Suitcase gets old), Occasional Crazy-Customer Doug -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Rick Westbrock Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2014 10:48 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: OT: Contract vs FTE Ray- Personally I was FTE for 11 years and then did just over a year on a DoD contract. I found that the contractor's life is not for me, at least not government contracts. I never did any private sector contracting so it may be different in that environment. Personally I prefer the stability of FTE and I like working with the same team for many years. I also get exposed to a lot more technologies than just Remedy so while my skillset may not be as deep as a lot of folks on the list regarding Remedy it is probably broader than many. I also don't have the personality or patience to be able to weather the occasional gap between contracts, both mentally and budget-wise. YMMV. -Rick -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Ray Gellenbeck Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 9:29 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: OT: Contract vs FTE Thanks. I've always been a FTE since I started in 96. The growing trend seems to be client hopes for a short deploy/customize contract gig then drop the SME and then hope a cheaper admin can keep it running. The beauty of that dream is then when that flops they hire an old codger like me to undo the mess, which runs 2-3 times longer on average. Anyway, I was just taken back how many recruiters hit you up for contract-only gigs these days. I've always said pass but wonder about the pros/con's in the current market. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years This email is subject to certain disclaimers, which may be reviewed via the following link. http://compass-usa.com/Pages/Disclaimer.aspx. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
OT: Contract vs FTE
I'm curious at the shift as of 2014. This thread question is targeted at developers/architects. To clarify, let's make the definition that you either customize at the object level or you develop integrations at the AIE/API/XML levels AND you've been doing that for at least 2 years. If you fall into that bucket, please reply to the following question... How many of you work as Full Time Employees vs. those who go from contract to contract in 2014? Follow-up: If you're contract, is it by choice or by market forces? I feel the % is shifting more heavily to contract than even the usual majority in the past. Are FTE's an extinct breed in 2014? Thanks in advanced for replies from the target audience... ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: OT: Contract vs FTE
From my corner of the world, there are a lot of us FTEs out there, but there isn't really a market to hire people as FTEs, so I think your observation is consistent with what I've seen. I don't have enough insight into why that is to form an educated opinion about it though, and I've been at my current job several years now. Thanks, Shawn Pierson Remedy Developer | Energy Transfer -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Ray Gellenbeck Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2014 3:13 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: OT: Contract vs FTE I'm curious at the shift as of 2014. This thread question is targeted at developers/architects. To clarify, let's make the definition that you either customize at the object level or you develop integrations at the AIE/API/XML levels AND you've been doing that for at least 2 years. If you fall into that bucket, please reply to the following question... How many of you work as Full Time Employees vs. those who go from contract to contract in 2014? Follow-up: If you're contract, is it by choice or by market forces? I feel the % is shifting more heavily to contract than even the usual majority in the past. Are FTE's an extinct breed in 2014? Thanks in advanced for replies from the target audience... ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years Private and confidential as detailed here: http://www.energytransfer.com/mail_disclaimer.aspx . If you cannot access the link, please e-mail sender. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: OT: Contract vs FTE
Ray, I've been doing what you describe for many years, and have done it as an FTE the entire time, never as a consultant. On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Ray Gellenbeck raygellenb...@yahoo.com wrote: I'm curious at the shift as of 2014. This thread question is targeted at developers/architects. To clarify, let's make the definition that you either customize at the object level or you develop integrations at the AIE/API/XML levels AND you've been doing that for at least 2 years. If you fall into that bucket, please reply to the following question... How many of you work as Full Time Employees vs. those who go from contract to contract in 2014? Follow-up: If you're contract, is it by choice or by market forces? I feel the % is shifting more heavily to contract than even the usual majority in the past. Are FTE's an extinct breed in 2014? Thanks in advanced for replies from the target audience... ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
Re: OT: Contract vs FTE
Thanks. I've always been a FTE since I started in 96. The growing trend seems to be client hopes for a short deploy/customize contract gig then drop the SME and then hope a cheaper admin can keep it running. The beauty of that dream is then when that flops they hire an old codger like me to undo the mess, which runs 2-3 times longer on average. Anyway, I was just taken back how many recruiters hit you up for contract-only gigs these days. I've always said pass but wonder about the pros/con's in the current market. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years
