Re: Email Struggles

2015-10-20 Thread Warren R. Baltimore II 
We've tried upgrading Java in the past.  Darn thing won't work with the
newer versions!  I'll take a look.

Warren

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 10:10 PM, <remedy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> **
> Would not be surprised here warren
> 1.4.2_07 ?  Really???
>
> This might help
> I would update a few versions
> I do see 6.x and still wondering why...
> But I would not be surprised if your Java has a lot to do with it. It
> could be as simple as you are using TLS 1.0
> Would have to look at it...
>
> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/documentation/overview-142120.html
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 19, 2015, at 11:45 AM, Ken Pritchard <pri...@ptd.net
> <pri...@ptd.net>> wrote:
>
> **
>
> Did something in your environment change to where certificates are now
> needed when they weren’t before?  Not necessarily just the Remedy system,
> but also network protocols?  I’m not a big cert guy, but I know in our
> environment new policies come out from time to time that affect how
> connections and ‘stuff’ work.
>
>
>
> *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [
> mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG <arslist@ARSLIST.ORG>] *On Behalf Of *Warren
> R. Baltimore II
> *Sent:* Monday, October 19, 2015 9:24 AM
> *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG <arslist@arslist.org>
> *Subject:* Re: Email Struggles
>
>
>
> **
>
> Problem is, I can't find a cert that expired on that day!  In fact, none
> of them are set to expire this year.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 9:15 AM, <tboot...@objectpath.com> wrote:
>
> Warren:
>
> Sounds like your cert has expired on your server that is running the
> Remedy Email client.  All certs have an expiry date.  You will have to go
> to your server management group and have them re-issue the cert for this
> server (from your cert provider, whomever that is).  Then, you can install
> it on your server and you should be golden.
>
>
>
> You should also have them check the expiry date of the Microsoft 365
> server certificate as well... :-)
>
>
>
> Terry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2015-10-19 08:32, Warren R. Baltimore II wrote:
>
> **
>
> ARS 6.3 patch 16
>
> Solaris SunOS 5.10
>
> Java SDK 1.4.2_07
>
>
>
> I'm having a problem.
>
>
>
> I connect using IMAP4 to a Microsoft 365 server to download my email.
> I've been using this method for a couple of years now without problems.
> Prior to that, I had been using MBOX.  I have been supporting this server
> for 7 years now and not once have I loaded a certificate for SSL.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday evening, my server stopped downloading email from Office
> 365.  In the aremaild.sh_log file, I see the following error:
>
>
>
> Oct 19, 2015 7:55:27 AM com.sun.mail.imap.IMAPStore protocolConnect
>
> SEVERE: sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: No trusted certificate
> found;
>
>   nested exception is:
>
> javax.net.ssl.SSLHandshakeException:
> sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: No trusted certificate found
>
> javax.mail.MessagingException: sun.security.validator.ValidatorException:
> No trusted certificate found;
>
>   nested exception is:
>
> javax.net.ssl.SSLHandshakeException:
> sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: No trusted certificate found
>
> at com.sun.mail.imap.IMAPStore.protocolConnect(IMAPStore.java:303)
>
> at javax.mail.Service.connect(Service.java:233)
>
> at javax.mail.Service.connect(Service.java:134)
>
> at
> com.remedy.arsys.emaildaemon.ReceiverModule.initializeIncommingMailbox(ReceiverModule.java:1687)
>
> at
> com.remedy.arsys.emaildaemon.ReceiverModule.initialization(ReceiverModule.java:470)
>
> at
> com.remedy.arsys.emaildaemon.ReceiverModule.doWork(ReceiverModule.java:170)
>
> at com.remedy.arsys.emaildaemon.ThreadBase.run(ThreadBase.java:268)
>
> at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:534)
>
>
>
>  Microsoft has said that they have not made any changes on their end.  My
> UNIX team tells me no changes have been made there (and I believe them).
>
>
>
> I've done quite a few searches against these errors.  Everything seems to
> be pointing to a certificate issue on my end.  But I'm not really sure
> exactly what I need to do to update it.  From what I can tell, I need to
> make the change to the cacerts file at:  /usr/java142_07/jre/lib/security.
> I'm afraid the instructions for updating or creating these certs are a bit
> hazy.  And the manual from Remedy is next to useless (due to the multiple
> methodologies to do this thing).  Could somebody point me in the right
> di

Re: Email Struggles

2015-10-20 Thread Warren R. Baltimore II 
Mission accomplished!  In the past, when we attempted to use the newer
versions of Java, it would kill the email process.  I got to thinking that
when we tried that previously, we were using very different approaches to
the retrieving email (MBOX).  I had never tried using the newer versions
with IMAP.  So, I pointed the email daemon at the newest version
(jdk1.6.0_101) and surprise!  It worked!

Thanks for getting me to think about that Pat!

On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 7:49 AM, Warren R. Baltimore II <
warrenbaltim...@gmail.com> wrote:

> We've tried upgrading Java in the past.  Darn thing won't work with the
> newer versions!  I'll take a look.
>
> Warren
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 10:10 PM, <remedy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> **
>> Would not be surprised here warren
>> 1.4.2_07 ?  Really???
>>
>> This might help
>> I would update a few versions
>> I do see 6.x and still wondering why...
>> But I would not be surprised if your Java has a lot to do with it. It
>> could be as simple as you are using TLS 1.0
>> Would have to look at it...
>>
>> http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/documentation/overview-142120.html
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 19, 2015, at 11:45 AM, Ken Pritchard <pri...@ptd.net
>> <pri...@ptd.net>> wrote:
>>
>> **
>>
>> Did something in your environment change to where certificates are now
>> needed when they weren’t before?  Not necessarily just the Remedy system,
>> but also network protocols?  I’m not a big cert guy, but I know in our
>> environment new policies come out from time to time that affect how
>> connections and ‘stuff’ work.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [
>> mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG <arslist@ARSLIST.ORG>] *On Behalf Of *Warren
>> R. Baltimore II
>> *Sent:* Monday, October 19, 2015 9:24 AM
>> *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG <arslist@arslist.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: Email Struggles
>>
>>
>>
>> **
>>
>> Problem is, I can't find a cert that expired on that day!  In fact, none
>> of them are set to expire this year.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 9:15 AM, <tboot...@objectpath.com> wrote:
>>
>> Warren:
>>
>> Sounds like your cert has expired on your server that is running the
>> Remedy Email client.  All certs have an expiry date.  You will have to go
>> to your server management group and have them re-issue the cert for this
>> server (from your cert provider, whomever that is).  Then, you can install
>> it on your server and you should be golden.
>>
>>
>>
>> You should also have them check the expiry date of the Microsoft 365
>> server certificate as well... :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Terry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2015-10-19 08:32, Warren R. Baltimore II wrote:
>>
>> **
>>
>> ARS 6.3 patch 16
>>
>> Solaris SunOS 5.10
>>
>> Java SDK 1.4.2_07
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm having a problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> I connect using IMAP4 to a Microsoft 365 server to download my email.
>> I've been using this method for a couple of years now without problems.
>> Prior to that, I had been using MBOX.  I have been supporting this server
>> for 7 years now and not once have I loaded a certificate for SSL.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday evening, my server stopped downloading email from Office
>> 365.  In the aremaild.sh_log file, I see the following error:
>>
>>
>>
>> Oct 19, 2015 7:55:27 AM com.sun.mail.imap.IMAPStore protocolConnect
>>
>> SEVERE: sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: No trusted certificate
>> found;
>>
>>   nested exception is:
>>
>> javax.net.ssl.SSLHandshakeException:
>> sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: No trusted certificate found
>>
>> javax.mail.MessagingException: sun.security.validator.ValidatorException:
>> No trusted certificate found;
>>
>>   nested exception is:
>>
>> javax.net.ssl.SSLHandshakeException:
>> sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: No trusted certificate found
>>
>> at com.sun.mail.imap.IMAPStore.protocolConnect(IMAPStore.java:303)
>>
>> at javax.mail.Service.connect(Service.java:233)
>>
>> at javax.mail.Service.connect(Service.java:134)
>>
>> at
>> com.remedy.arsys.emaildaemon.ReceiverModule.initializeIncommingMailbox(ReceiverModule.java:1687)
>>
>> at

Re: Email Struggles

2015-10-19 Thread Terry Bootsma 
 

Warren: 

Sounds like your cert has expired on your server that is running the
Remedy Email client. All certs have an expiry date. You will have to go
to your server management group and have them re-issue the cert for this
server (from your cert provider, whomever that is). Then, you can
install it on your server and you should be golden. 

You should also have them check the expiry date of the Microsoft 365
server certificate as well... :-) 

Terry 

On 2015-10-19 08:32, Warren R. Baltimore II wrote: 

> ** 
> 
> ARS 6.3 patch 16 
> Solaris SunOS 5.10 
> Java SDK 1.4.2_07 
> 
> I'm having a problem. 
> 
> I connect using IMAP4 to a Microsoft 365 server to download my email. I've 
> been using this method for a couple of years now without problems. Prior to 
> that, I had been using MBOX. I have been supporting this server for 7 years 
> now and not once have I loaded a certificate for SSL. 
> 
> On Wednesday evening, my server stopped downloading email from Office 365. In 
> the aremaild.sh_log file, I see the following error: 
> 
>> Oct 19, 2015 7:55:27 AM com.sun.mail.imap.IMAPStore protocolConnect 
>> SEVERE: sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: No trusted certificate 
>> found; 
>> nested exception is: 
>> javax.net.ssl.SSLHandshakeException: 
>> sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: No trusted certificate found 
>> javax.mail.MessagingException: sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: No 
>> trusted certificate found; 
>> nested exception is: 
>> javax.net.ssl.SSLHandshakeException: 
>> sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: No trusted certificate found 
>> at com.sun.mail.imap.IMAPStore.protocolConnect(IMAPStore.java:303) 
>> at javax.mail.Service.connect(Service.java:233) 
>> at javax.mail.Service.connect(Service.java:134) 
>> at 
>> com.remedy.arsys.emaildaemon.ReceiverModule.initializeIncommingMailbox(ReceiverModule.java:1687)
>>  
>> at 
>> com.remedy.arsys.emaildaemon.ReceiverModule.initialization(ReceiverModule.java:470)
>>  
>> at 
>> com.remedy.arsys.emaildaemon.ReceiverModule.doWork(ReceiverModule.java:170) 
>> at com.remedy.arsys.emaildaemon.ThreadBase.run(ThreadBase.java:268) 
>> at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:534)
> 
> Microsoft has said that they have not made any changes on their end. My UNIX 
> team tells me no changes have been made there (and I believe them). 
> 
> I've done quite a few searches against these errors. Everything seems to be 
> pointing to a certificate issue on my end. But I'm not really sure exactly 
> what I need to do to update it. From what I can tell, I need to make the 
> change to the cacerts file at: /usr/java142_07/jre/lib/security. I'm afraid 
> the instructions for updating or creating these certs are a bit hazy. And the 
> manual from Remedy is next to useless (due to the multiple methodologies to 
> do this thing). Could somebody point me in the right direction? Do I need a 
> cert from Microsoft? Or is this something I need to get from somewhere else? 
> 
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! 
> -- 
> 
> Warren R. Baltimore II
> Remedy Developer
> 410-533-5367 _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_

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Re: Email Struggles

2015-10-19 Thread Warren R. Baltimore II 
Problem is, I can't find a cert that expired on that day!  In fact, none of
them are set to expire this year.

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 9:15 AM,  wrote:

> Warren:
>
> Sounds like your cert has expired on your server that is running the
> Remedy Email client.  All certs have an expiry date.  You will have to go
> to your server management group and have them re-issue the cert for this
> server (from your cert provider, whomever that is).  Then, you can install
> it on your server and you should be golden.
>
>
>
> You should also have them check the expiry date of the Microsoft 365
> server certificate as well... :-)
>
>
>
> Terry
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2015-10-19 08:32, Warren R. Baltimore II wrote:
>
> **
> ARS 6.3 patch 16
> Solaris SunOS 5.10
> Java SDK 1.4.2_07
>
> I'm having a problem.
>
> I connect using IMAP4 to a Microsoft 365 server to download my email.
> I've been using this method for a couple of years now without problems.
> Prior to that, I had been using MBOX.  I have been supporting this server
> for 7 years now and not once have I loaded a certificate for SSL.
>
> On Wednesday evening, my server stopped downloading email from Office
> 365.  In the aremaild.sh_log file, I see the following error:
>
>
> Oct 19, 2015 7:55:27 AM com.sun.mail.imap.IMAPStore protocolConnect
> SEVERE: sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: No trusted certificate
> found;
>   nested exception is:
> javax.net.ssl.SSLHandshakeException:
> sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: No trusted certificate found
> javax.mail.MessagingException: sun.security.validator.ValidatorException:
> No trusted certificate found;
>   nested exception is:
> javax.net.ssl.SSLHandshakeException:
> sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: No trusted certificate found
> at com.sun.mail.imap.IMAPStore.protocolConnect(IMAPStore.java:303)
> at javax.mail.Service.connect(Service.java:233)
> at javax.mail.Service.connect(Service.java:134)
> at
> com.remedy.arsys.emaildaemon.ReceiverModule.initializeIncommingMailbox(ReceiverModule.java:1687)
> at
> com.remedy.arsys.emaildaemon.ReceiverModule.initialization(ReceiverModule.java:470)
> at
> com.remedy.arsys.emaildaemon.ReceiverModule.doWork(ReceiverModule.java:170)
> at com.remedy.arsys.emaildaemon.ThreadBase.run(ThreadBase.java:268)
> at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:534)
>
>
>  Microsoft has said that they have not made any changes on their end.  My
> UNIX team tells me no changes have been made there (and I believe them).
>
> I've done quite a few searches against these errors.  Everything seems to
> be pointing to a certificate issue on my end.  But I'm not really sure
> exactly what I need to do to update it.  From what I can tell, I need to
> make the change to the cacerts file at:  /usr/java142_07/jre/lib/security.
> I'm afraid the instructions for updating or creating these certs are a bit
> hazy.  And the manual from Remedy is next to useless (due to the multiple
> methodologies to do this thing).  Could somebody point me in the right
> direction?  Do I need a cert from Microsoft?  Or is this something I need
> to get from somewhere else?
>
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
> --
>
> Warren R. Baltimore II
> Remedy Developer
> 410-533-5367
> _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_
>
>


-- 
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
410-533-5367

___
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Re: Email Struggles

2015-10-19 Thread Ken Pritchard 
Did something in your environment change to where certificates are now needed 
when they weren’t before?  Not necessarily just the Remedy system, but also 
network protocols?  I’m not a big cert guy, but I know in our environment new 
policies come out from time to time that affect how connections and ‘stuff’ 
work.

 

From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Warren R. Baltimore II
Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 9:24 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Email Struggles

 

** 

Problem is, I can't find a cert that expired on that day!  In fact, none of 
them are set to expire this year.  

 

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 9:15 AM, <tboot...@objectpath.com 
<mailto:tboot...@objectpath.com> > wrote:

Warren:

Sounds like your cert has expired on your server that is running the Remedy 
Email client.  All certs have an expiry date.  You will have to go to your 
server management group and have them re-issue the cert for this server (from 
your cert provider, whomever that is).  Then, you can install it on your server 
and you should be golden.

 

You should also have them check the expiry date of the Microsoft 365 server 
certificate as well... :-)

 

Terry

 

 

 

On 2015-10-19 08:32, Warren R. Baltimore II wrote:

**

ARS 6.3 patch 16

Solaris SunOS 5.10

Java SDK 1.4.2_07

 

I'm having a problem.

 

I connect using IMAP4 to a Microsoft 365 server to download my email.  I've 
been using this method for a couple of years now without problems.  Prior to 
that, I had been using MBOX.  I have been supporting this server for 7 years 
now and not once have I loaded a certificate for SSL.

 

On Wednesday evening, my server stopped downloading email from Office 365.  In 
the aremaild.sh_log file, I see the following error:

 

Oct 19, 2015 7:55:27 AM com.sun.mail.imap.IMAPStore protocolConnect

SEVERE: sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: No trusted certificate found;

  nested exception is:

javax.net.ssl.SSLHandshakeException: 
sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: No trusted certificate found

javax.mail.MessagingException: sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: No 
trusted certificate found;

  nested exception is:

javax.net.ssl.SSLHandshakeException: 
sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: No trusted certificate found

at com.sun.mail.imap.IMAPStore.protocolConnect(IMAPStore.java:303)

at javax.mail.Service.connect(Service.java:233)

at javax.mail.Service.connect(Service.java:134)

at 
com.remedy.arsys.emaildaemon.ReceiverModule.initializeIncommingMailbox(ReceiverModule.java:1687)

at 
com.remedy.arsys.emaildaemon.ReceiverModule.initialization(ReceiverModule.java:470)

at 
com.remedy.arsys.emaildaemon.ReceiverModule.doWork(ReceiverModule.java:170)

at com.remedy.arsys.emaildaemon.ThreadBase.run(ThreadBase.java:268)

at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:534)

 

 Microsoft has said that they have not made any changes on their end.  My UNIX 
team tells me no changes have been made there (and I believe them).

 

I've done quite a few searches against these errors.  Everything seems to be 
pointing to a certificate issue on my end.  But I'm not really sure exactly 
what I need to do to update it.  From what I can tell, I need to make the 
change to the cacerts file at:  /usr/java142_07/jre/lib/security.  I'm afraid 
the instructions for updating or creating these certs are a bit hazy.  And the 
manual from Remedy is next to useless (due to the multiple methodologies to do 
this thing).  Could somebody point me in the right direction?  Do I need a cert 
from Microsoft?  Or is this something I need to get from somewhere else? 

 

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

--

 

Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
410-533-5367  

_ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_




-- 

Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
410-533-5367

_ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_ 


___
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"Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years"

Re: Email Struggles

2015-10-19 Thread remedyboy 
Would not be surprised here warren
1.4.2_07 ?  Really???

This might help 
I would update a few versions 
I do see 6.x and still wondering why...
But I would not be surprised if your Java has a lot to do with it. It could be 
as simple as you are using TLS 1.0 
Would have to look at it... 
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/documentation/overview-142120.html

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2015, at 11:45 AM, Ken Pritchard <pri...@ptd.net> wrote:
> 
> **
> Did something in your environment change to where certificates are now needed 
> when they weren’t before?  Not necessarily just the Remedy system, but also 
> network protocols?  I’m not a big cert guy, but I know in our environment new 
> policies come out from time to time that affect how connections and ‘stuff’ 
> work.
>  
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) 
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Warren R. Baltimore II
> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2015 9:24 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Email Struggles
>  
> **
> Problem is, I can't find a cert that expired on that day!  In fact, none of 
> them are set to expire this year. 
>  
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 9:15 AM, <tboot...@objectpath.com> wrote:
> Warren:
> 
> Sounds like your cert has expired on your server that is running the Remedy 
> Email client.  All certs have an expiry date.  You will have to go to your 
> server management group and have them re-issue the cert for this server (from 
> your cert provider, whomever that is).  Then, you can install it on your 
> server and you should be golden.
> 
>  
> 
> You should also have them check the expiry date of the Microsoft 365 server 
> certificate as well... :-)
> 
>  
> 
> Terry
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> On 2015-10-19 08:32, Warren R. Baltimore II wrote:
> 
> **
> 
> ARS 6.3 patch 16
> Solaris SunOS 5.10
> Java SDK 1.4.2_07
>  
> I'm having a problem.
>  
> I connect using IMAP4 to a Microsoft 365 server to download my email.  I've 
> been using this method for a couple of years now without problems.  Prior to 
> that, I had been using MBOX.  I have been supporting this server for 7 years 
> now and not once have I loaded a certificate for SSL.
>  
> On Wednesday evening, my server stopped downloading email from Office 365.  
> In the aremaild.sh_log file, I see the following error:
>  
> Oct 19, 2015 7:55:27 AM com.sun.mail.imap.IMAPStore protocolConnect
> SEVERE: sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: No trusted certificate 
> found;
>   nested exception is:
> javax.net.ssl.SSLHandshakeException: 
> sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: No trusted certificate found
> javax.mail.MessagingException: sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: No 
> trusted certificate found;
>   nested exception is:
> javax.net.ssl.SSLHandshakeException: 
> sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: No trusted certificate found
> at com.sun.mail.imap.IMAPStore.protocolConnect(IMAPStore.java:303)
> at javax.mail.Service.connect(Service.java:233)
> at javax.mail.Service.connect(Service.java:134)
> at 
> com.remedy.arsys.emaildaemon.ReceiverModule.initializeIncommingMailbox(ReceiverModule.java:1687)
> at 
> com.remedy.arsys.emaildaemon.ReceiverModule.initialization(ReceiverModule.java:470)
> at 
> com.remedy.arsys.emaildaemon.ReceiverModule.doWork(ReceiverModule.java:170)
> at com.remedy.arsys.emaildaemon.ThreadBase.run(ThreadBase.java:268)
> at java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:534)
>  
>  Microsoft has said that they have not made any changes on their end.  My 
> UNIX team tells me no changes have been made there (and I believe them).
>  
> I've done quite a few searches against these errors.  Everything seems to be 
> pointing to a certificate issue on my end.  But I'm not really sure exactly 
> what I need to do to update it.  From what I can tell, I need to make the 
> change to the cacerts file at:  /usr/java142_07/jre/lib/security.  I'm afraid 
> the instructions for updating or creating these certs are a bit hazy.  And 
> the manual from Remedy is next to useless (due to the multiple methodologies 
> to do this thing).  Could somebody point me in the right direction?  Do I 
> need a cert from Microsoft?  Or is this something I need to get from 
> somewhere else? 
>  
> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!
> --
>  
> Warren R. Baltimore II
> Remedy Developer
> 410-533-5367
> _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Warren R. Baltimore II
> Remedy Developer
> 410-533-5367
> _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_
> _ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are" and have been for 20 years_

___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org
"Where the Answers Are, and have been for 20 years"