Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? - Resolved!
John,
THANK YOU so much. With all the great ideas presented, this one will
require only a minimum of my time and is just the sort of solution I was
hoping to find. As a side bar, I will make a second filter to ensure
that every form is at least touched during that week.
To EVERYONE who helped contributed to this thread, THANKS for all your
help,
Leigh
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Sundberg
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:59 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
** (off the top of my head - so some details are missing - but you
should get the point)
A technique to find if you can take advantage of submitter mode locked:
Create a new table called SubmitterChangeTracker
create a filter if 'TR.Submitter' != $NULL$ -- push a record to
SubmitterChangeTracker with schemaname, recordnumber, etc
Put that filter on Modify -- for all your schemas
Then let it run for a week -- if you find records in
SubmitterChangeTracker -- you will be able to track it down.
etc...
-John
On 7/11/07, Leigh Gruber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
**
Good Morning Listers,
We have an existing system operating with the Submitter Mode set to
Changeable. This system has around 750 forms with a mix of Remedy and
home grown applications. We need to change submitter mode to Locked so
we can host another custom application which must run in Submitter Mode
Locked.
I have 3 questions!
1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to
determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the
submitter field? I have set the development box to Submitter Mode
locked and tried some very limited record modification, but I don't have
any testing resources available.
Here's what I've tried so far on our dev system (Remedy 6.3; MS SQL
Server):
* Analyzed Advanced search results on the object_search_details
form. The selection criteria was ('Item Details' LIKE %Submitter%)
AND NOT('Item Details' LIKE %1 = 0%). I haven't seen a problem in
resulting (100 or so) records.
* I've also checked the Submitter field #2 for other names it may
have.
2. Are there any gotchas I should know about that might cause us
problems if/when I change the production system?
3. Is it safe to assume that our Remedy/BMC applications will NOT have
workflow that writes to the Submitter form?
I would appreciate any words of wisdom you might have for me.
Many thanks,
Leigh Gruber
The information contained in this message may be privileged and/or
confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, or responsible for
delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review,
forwarding, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication
or any attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
message in error, please so notify the sender immediately, and delete it
and all attachments from your computer and network.
__20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in
it___
--
John David Sundberg
235 East 6th Street, Suite 400B
St. Paul, MN 55101
(651) 556-0930-work
(651) 247-6766-cell
(651) 695-8577-fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED] __20060125___This
posting was submitted with HTML in it___
___
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Answers Are
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? - Resolved!
Hello everyone,
Just an FYI.
'TR.Submitter' != $NULL$ would not work if you want to track the following
scenario:-
1. 'Submitter' field has a value in it and user erased the value in it and
saved it. In that case 'TR.Submitter' would be NULL even though a change
occured on that field.
I would suggest to use , 'Submitter'!='DB.Submitter'. This would track all
records.
Thanks
Chintan.
Leigh Gruber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
** v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
John,
THANK YOU so much. With all the great ideas presented, this one will require
only a minimum of my time and is just the sort of solution I was hoping to
find. As a side bar, I will make a second filter to ensure that every form is
at least touched during that week.
To EVERYONE who helped contributed to this thread, THANKS for all your help,
Leigh
-
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Sundberg
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:59 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
** (off the top of my head - so some details are missing - but you should get
the point)
A technique to find if you can take advantage of submitter mode locked:
Create a new table called SubmitterChangeTracker
create a filter if 'TR.Submitter' != $NULL$ -- push a record to
SubmitterChangeTracker with schemaname, recordnumber, etc
Put that filter on Modify -- for all your schemas
Then let it run for a week -- if you find records in SubmitterChangeTracker --
you will be able to track it down.
etc...
-John
On 7/11/07, Leigh Gruber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
**
Good Morning Listers,
We have an existing system operating with the Submitter Mode set to
Changeable. This system has around 750 forms with a mix of Remedy and home
grown applications. We need to change submitter mode to Locked so we can host
another custom application which must run in Submitter Mode Locked.
I have 3 questions!
1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to determine
if the original system has workflow that modifies the submitter field? I have
set the development box to Submitter Mode locked and tried some very limited
record modification, but I don't have any testing resources available.
Here's what I've tried so far on our dev system (Remedy 6.3; MS SQL Server):
Analyzed Advanced search results on the object_search_details form. The
selection criteria was ('Item Details' LIKE %Submitter%) AND NOT('Item
Details' LIKE %1 = 0%). I haven't seen a problem in resulting (100 or so)
records.
I've also checked the Submitter field #2 for other names it may have.
2. Are there any gotchas I should know about that might cause us problems
if/when I change the production system?
3. Is it safe to assume that our Remedy/BMC applications will NOT have
workflow that writes to the Submitter form?
I would appreciate any words of wisdom you might have for me.
Many thanks,
Leigh Gruber
The information contained in this message may be privileged and/or
confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, or responsible for
delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review, forwarding,
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication or any
attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in
error, please so notify the sender immediately, and delete it and all
attachments from your computer and network.
__20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in
it___
--
John David Sundberg
235 East 6th Street, Suite 400B
St. Paul, MN 55101
(651) 556-0930-work
(651) 247-6766-cell
(651) 695-8577-fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED] __20060125___This posting was submitted
with HTML in it___
__20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in it___
-
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.
___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the
Answers Are
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? - Resolved!
Isn't the Submitter field a required system field? An error would
result if this field was blank.
Stephen
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chintan Shah
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 11:55 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? - Resolved!
**
Hello everyone,
Just an FYI.
'TR.Submitter' != $NULL$ would not work if you want to track the
following scenario:-
1. 'Submitter' field has a value in it and user erased the value in it
and saved it. In that case 'TR.Submitter' would be NULL even though a
change occured on that field.
I would suggest to use , 'Submitter'!='DB.Submitter'. This would track
all records.
Thanks
Chintan.
Leigh Gruber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
**
John,
THANK YOU so much. With all the great ideas presented, this one
will require only a minimum of my time and is just the sort of solution
I was hoping to find. As a side bar, I will make a second filter to
ensure that every form is at least touched during that week.
To EVERYONE who helped contributed to this thread, THANKS for
all your help,
Leigh
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Sundberg
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:59 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
** (off the top of my head - so some details are missing - but
you should get the point)
A technique to find if you can take advantage of submitter mode
locked:
Create a new table called SubmitterChangeTracker
create a filter if 'TR.Submitter' != $NULL$ -- push a record to
SubmitterChangeTracker with schemaname, recordnumber, etc
Put that filter on Modify -- for all your schemas
Then let it run for a week -- if you find records in
SubmitterChangeTracker -- you will be able to track it down.
etc...
-John
On 7/11/07, Leigh Gruber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
**
Good Morning Listers,
We have an existing system operating with the Submitter Mode set
to Changeable. This system has around 750 forms with a mix of Remedy
and home grown applications. We need to change submitter mode to Locked
so we can host another custom application which must run in Submitter
Mode Locked.
I have 3 questions!
1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force,
to determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the
submitter field? I have set the development box to Submitter Mode
locked and tried some very limited record modification, but I don't have
any testing resources available.
Here's what I've tried so far on our dev system (Remedy 6.3; MS
SQL Server):
* Analyzed Advanced search results on the
object_search_details form. The selection criteria was ('Item Details'
LIKE %Submitter%) AND NOT('Item Details' LIKE %1 = 0%). I haven't
seen a problem in resulting (100 or so) records.
* I've also checked the Submitter field #2 for other names
it may have.
2. Are there any gotchas I should know about that might cause
us problems if/when I change the production system?
3. Is it safe to assume that our Remedy/BMC applications will
NOT have workflow that writes to the Submitter form?
I would appreciate any words of wisdom you might have for me.
Many thanks,
Leigh Gruber
The information contained in this message may be privileged
and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, or
responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any
review, forwarding, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication or any attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have
received this message in error, please so notify the sender immediately,
and delete it and all attachments from your computer and network.
__20060125___This posting was submitted with
HTML in it___
--
John David Sundberg
235 East 6th Street, Suite 400B
St. Paul, MN 55101
(651) 556-0930-work
(651) 247-6766-cell
(651) 695-8577-fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in
it___
__20060125___This posting was submitted with
HTML in it___
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers
http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48252/*http://mobile.yahoo.com
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Leigh,
There are some spreadsheets I have seen that will do some pretty clever
analysis on workflow from def files.
You could also run some sample logging and look for pushes to that
field.
Steven Teale
AEGON Shared Services
Louisville, Kentucky
Phone: 502.560.2856
Mobile: 502.243.5619
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Check Us Out ! www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leigh Gruber
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:18 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Good Morning Listers,
We have an existing system operating with the Submitter Mode set to
Changeable. This system has around 750 forms with a mix of Remedy and
home grown applications. We need to change submitter mode to Locked so
we can host another custom application which must run in Submitter Mode
Locked.
I have 3 questions!
1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to
determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the
submitter field? I have set the development box to Submitter Mode
locked and tried some very limited record modification, but I don't have
any testing resources available.
Here's what I've tried so far on our dev system (Remedy 6.3; MS SQL
Server):
* Analyzed Advanced search results on the object_search_details
form. The selection criteria was ('Item Details' LIKE %Submitter%)
AND NOT('Item Details' LIKE %1 = 0%). I haven't seen a problem in
resulting (100 or so) records.
* I've also checked the Submitter field #2 for other names it may
have.
2. Are there any gotchas I should know about that might cause us
problems if/when I change the production system?
3. Is it safe to assume that our Remedy/BMC applications will NOT have
workflow that writes to the Submitter form?
I would appreciate any words of wisdom you might have for me.
Many thanks,
Leigh Gruber
The information contained in this message may be privileged and/or
confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, or responsible for
delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review,
forwarding, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication
or any attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
message in error, please so notify the sender immediately, and delete it
and all attachments from your computer and network.
__20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in
it___
___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the
Answers Are
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Once a record has been created Remedy will not let you change the
Submitter (field ID 2) field. Submitter mode Locked means that even if
the Submitter has a Read License they will be able to update the record
(the non system fields of course) where they are the submitter not that
they can change the Submitter field.
Fred
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Teale, Steven
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:44 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
**
Leigh,
There are some spreadsheets I have seen that will do some pretty clever
analysis on workflow from def files.
You could also run some sample logging and look for pushes to that
field.
Steven Teale
AEGON Shared Services
Louisville, Kentucky
Phone: 502.560.2856
Mobile: 502.243.5619
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Check Us Out ! www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leigh Gruber
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:18 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Good Morning Listers,
We have an existing system operating with the Submitter Mode set to
Changeable. This system has around 750 forms with a mix of Remedy and
home grown applications. We need to change submitter mode to Locked so
we can host another custom application which must run in Submitter Mode
Locked.
I have 3 questions!
1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to
determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the
submitter field? I have set the development box to Submitter Mode
locked and tried some very limited record modification, but I don't have
any testing resources available.
Here's what I've tried so far on our dev system (Remedy 6.3; MS SQL
Server):
* Analyzed Advanced search results on the object_search_details
form. The selection criteria was ('Item Details' LIKE %Submitter%)
AND NOT('Item Details' LIKE %1 = 0%). I haven't seen a problem in
resulting (100 or so) records.
* I've also checked the Submitter field #2 for other names it may
have.
2. Are there any gotchas I should know about that might cause us
problems if/when I change the production system?
3. Is it safe to assume that our Remedy/BMC applications will NOT have
workflow that writes to the Submitter form?
I would appreciate any words of wisdom you might have for me.
Many thanks,
Leigh Gruber
___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the
Answers Are
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Steven,
Turning on the logging is a good idea. I'll try that.
Do you have any additional info about the spreadsheets and how they
might do the analysis?
Thanks
Leigh
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Teale, Steven
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:44 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Leigh,
There are some spreadsheets I have seen that will do some pretty clever
analysis on workflow from def files.
You could also run some sample logging and look for pushes to that
field.
Steven Teale
AEGON Shared Services
Louisville, Kentucky
Phone: 502.560.2856
Mobile: 502.243.5619
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Check Us Out ! www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leigh Gruber
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:18 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Good Morning Listers,
We have an existing system operating with the Submitter Mode set to
Changeable. This system has around 750 forms with a mix of Remedy and
home grown applications. We need to change submitter mode to Locked so
we can host another custom application which must run in Submitter Mode
Locked.
I have 3 questions!
1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to
determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the
submitter field? I have set the development box to Submitter Mode
locked and tried some very limited record modification, but I don't have
any testing resources available.
Here's what I've tried so far on our dev system (Remedy 6.3; MS SQL
Server):
* Analyzed Advanced search results on the object_search_details
form. The selection criteria was ('Item Details' LIKE %Submitter%)
AND NOT('Item Details' LIKE %1 = 0%). I haven't seen a problem in
resulting (100 or so) records.
* I've also checked the Submitter field #2 for other names it may
have.
2. Are there any gotchas I should know about that might cause us
problems if/when I change the production system?
3. Is it safe to assume that our Remedy/BMC applications will NOT have
workflow that writes to the Submitter form?
I would appreciate any words of wisdom you might have for me.
Many thanks,
Leigh Gruber
The information contained in this message may be privileged and/or
confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, or responsible for
delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review,
forwarding, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication
or any attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
message in error, please so notify the sender immediately, and delete it
and all attachments from your computer and network.
__20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in
it___ __20060125___This posting was submitted with
HTML in it___
___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the
Answers Are
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
I don't believe that to be correct. I am fairly certain (unless BMC
changed this in version 7.x), that if the Submitter Mode is set to
Changeable, the value in the Submitter field CAN be changed.
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Grooms, Frederick W
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:57 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Once a record has been created Remedy will not let you change the
Submitter (field ID 2) field. Submitter mode Locked means that even if
the Submitter has a Read License they will be able to update the record
(the non system fields of course) where they are the submitter not that
they can change the Submitter field.
Fred
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Teale, Steven
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:44 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
**
Leigh,
There are some spreadsheets I have seen that will do some pretty clever
analysis on workflow from def files.
You could also run some sample logging and look for pushes to that
field.
Steven Teale
AEGON Shared Services
Louisville, Kentucky
Phone: 502.560.2856
Mobile: 502.243.5619
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Check Us Out ! www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leigh Gruber
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:18 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Good Morning Listers,
We have an existing system operating with the Submitter Mode set to
Changeable. This system has around 750 forms with a mix of Remedy and
home grown applications. We need to change submitter mode to Locked so
we can host another custom application which must run in Submitter Mode
Locked.
I have 3 questions!
1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to
determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the
submitter field? I have set the development box to Submitter Mode
locked and tried some very limited record modification, but I don't have
any testing resources available.
Here's what I've tried so far on our dev system (Remedy 6.3; MS SQL
Server):
1. Analyzed Advanced search results on the object_search_details
form. The selection criteria was ('Item Details' LIKE %Submitter%)
AND NOT('Item Details' LIKE %1 = 0%). I haven't seen a problem in
resulting (100 or so) records.
2. I've also checked the Submitter field #2 for other names it may
have.
2. Are there any gotchas I should know about that might cause us
problems if/when I change the production system?
3. Is it safe to assume that our Remedy/BMC applications will NOT have
workflow that writes to the Submitter form?
I would appreciate any words of wisdom you might have for me.
Many thanks,
Leigh Gruber
__20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in
it___
___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the
Answers Are
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
You are correct. The question and response by Fred is in reference to
having the system set to Submitter Mode Locked.
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E CIV USAF 96
CS/SCCE
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 11:09 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
**
I don't believe that to be correct. I am fairly certain (unless BMC
changed this in version 7.x), that if the Submitter Mode is set to
Changeable, the value in the Submitter field CAN be changed.
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Grooms, Frederick W
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:57 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Once a record has been created Remedy will not let you change the
Submitter (field ID 2) field. Submitter mode Locked means that even if
the Submitter has a Read License they will be able to update the record
(the non system fields of course) where they are the submitter not that
they can change the Submitter field.
Fred
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Teale, Steven
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:44 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
**
Leigh,
There are some spreadsheets I have seen that will do some pretty clever
analysis on workflow from def files.
You could also run some sample logging and look for pushes to that
field.
Steven Teale
AEGON Shared Services
Louisville, Kentucky
Phone: 502.560.2856
Mobile: 502.243.5619
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Check Us Out ! www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leigh Gruber
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:18 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Good Morning Listers,
We have an existing system operating with the Submitter Mode set to
Changeable. This system has around 750 forms with a mix of Remedy and
home grown applications. We need to change submitter mode to Locked so
we can host another custom application which must run in Submitter Mode
Locked.
I have 3 questions!
1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to
determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the
submitter field? I have set the development box to Submitter Mode
locked and tried some very limited record modification, but I don't have
any testing resources available.
Here's what I've tried so far on our dev system (Remedy 6.3; MS SQL
Server):
1. Analyzed Advanced search results on the object_search_details
form. The selection criteria was ('Item Details' LIKE %Submitter%)
AND NOT('Item Details' LIKE %1 = 0%). I haven't seen a problem in
resulting (100 or so) records.
2. I've also checked the Submitter field #2 for other names it may
have.
2. Are there any gotchas I should know about that might cause us
problems if/when I change the production system?
3. Is it safe to assume that our Remedy/BMC applications will NOT have
workflow that writes to the Submitter form?
I would appreciate any words of wisdom you might have for me.
Many thanks,
Leigh Gruber
__20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in
it___ __20060125___This posting was submitted with
HTML in it___
___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the
Answers Are
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
A copy of ARInside will tell you all workflow that touches that field to
include pushes or setfields to it. You would need to manually check each
form...but it's better than nothing
_
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leigh Gruber
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:00 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
**
Steven,
Turning on the logging is a good idea. I'll try that.
Do you have any additional info about the spreadsheets and how they might do
the analysis?
Thanks
Leigh
_
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Teale, Steven
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:44 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Leigh,
There are some spreadsheets I have seen that will do some pretty clever
analysis on workflow from def files.
You could also run some sample logging and look for pushes to that field.
Steven Teale
AEGON Shared Services
Louisville, Kentucky
Phone: 502.560.2856
Mobile: 502.243.5619
Email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Check Us Out ! http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
_
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leigh Gruber
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:18 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Good Morning Listers,
We have an existing system operating with the Submitter Mode set to
Changeable. This system has around 750 forms with a mix of Remedy and home
grown applications. We need to change submitter mode to Locked so we can
host another custom application which must run in Submitter Mode Locked.
I have 3 questions!
1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to
determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the submitter
field? I have set the development box to Submitter Mode locked and tried
some very limited record modification, but I don't have any testing
resources available.
Here's what I've tried so far on our dev system (Remedy 6.3; MS SQL Server):
* Analyzed Advanced search results on the object_search_details form.
The selection criteria was ('Item Details' LIKE %Submitter%) AND NOT('Item
Details' LIKE %1 = 0%). I haven't seen a problem in resulting (100 or so)
records.
* I've also checked the Submitter field #2 for other names it may
have.
2. Are there any gotchas I should know about that might cause us problems
if/when I change the production system?
3. Is it safe to assume that our Remedy/BMC applications will NOT have
workflow that writes to the Submitter form?
I would appreciate any words of wisdom you might have for me.
Many thanks,
Leigh Gruber
The information contained in this message may be privileged and/or
confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, or responsible for
delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review, forwarding,
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication or any
attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in
error, please so notify the sender immediately, and delete it and all
attachments from your computer and network.
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Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Hi Leigh, You ought to be able to determine whether workflow modifies a Submitter field's contents by querying the ARS database. Run SQL queries against the filter_set, filter_push, actlink_set, and actlink_push tables to see whether fieldId 2 (Submitter) is the object of any set-field or push-field actions. The escalation actions are stored along with the filter actions, so you'll get 2-for-one there. That would not catch any direct-SQL modifications to Submitter, but I am not certain that having submitter mode = locked prevents those anyway. HTH, Doug Anderson Mayo Clinic Rochester, MN Opinions expressed are necessarily mine, not necessarily those of the Mayo Foundation. Original message: Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:17:44 -0400 From: Leigh Gruber [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? Good Morning Listers, We have an existing system operating with the Submitter Mode set to Changeable. This system has around 750 forms with a mix of Remedy and home grown applications. We need to change submitter mode to Locked so we can host another custom application which must run in Submitter Mode Locked. I have 3 questions! 1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the submitter field? I have set the development box to Submitter Mode locked and tried some very limited record modification, but I don't have any testing resources available. snip I would appreciate any words of wisdom you might have for me. Many thanks, Leigh Gruber ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Doug, I completely forgot about possible DIRECT SQL commands. I'll add them to my list of things to check. Also I'll take a look at the filter_set tables too. I know there are many push actions which create new records. They aren't a problem, but sorting out the new record push actions from any that might attempt to update an existing record is my concern. Thanks Leigh From: Anderson, Douglas W. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 11:54 AM To: listmembers- arslist Cc: Leigh Gruber Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? Hi Leigh, You ought to be able to determine whether workflow modifies a Submitter field's contents by querying the ARS database. Run SQL queries against the filter_set, filter_push, actlink_set, and actlink_push tables to see whether fieldId 2 (Submitter) is the object of any set-field or push-field actions. The escalation actions are stored along with the filter actions, so you'll get 2-for-one there. That would not catch any direct-SQL modifications to Submitter, but I am not certain that having submitter mode = locked prevents those anyway. HTH, Doug Anderson Mayo Clinic Rochester, MN Opinions expressed are necessarily mine, not necessarily those of the Mayo Foundation. Original message: Date:Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:17:44 -0400 From:Leigh Gruber [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? Good Morning Listers, We have an existing system operating with the Submitter Mode set to Changeable. This system has around 750 forms with a mix of Remedy and home grown applications. We need to change submitter mode to Locked so we can host another custom application which must run in Submitter Mode Locked. I have 3 questions! 1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the submitter field? I have set the development box to Submitter Mode locked and tried some very limited record modification, but I don't have any testing resources available. snip I would appreciate any words of wisdom you might have for me. Many thanks, Leigh Gruber The information contained in this message may be privileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, or responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review, forwarding, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication or any attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please so notify the sender immediately, and delete it and all attachments from your computer and network. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?I do not think it would catch Direct SQL commands as an SQL statement in a Direct SQL command is not evaluated by the ARS before its passed to the DB for execution. You could pretty much type Hello and pass that to SQL and it would error only at the time of execution. However if you try to change the submitter value using Direct SQL, the database server would not return a valid SQL statement as an error and hence I am pretty certain it would execute.. Whether you are or not ALLOWED to do that without breaking a license agreement, I am not certain. Joe -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anderson, Douglas W. Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 11:54 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? ** Hi Leigh, You ought to be able to determine whether workflow modifies a Submitter field's contents by querying the ARS database. Run SQL queries against the filter_set, filter_push, actlink_set, and actlink_push tables to see whether fieldId 2 (Submitter) is the object of any set-field or push-field actions. The escalation actions are stored along with the filter actions, so you'll get 2-for-one there. That would not catch any direct-SQL modifications to Submitter, but I am not certain that having submitter mode = locked prevents those anyway. HTH, Doug Anderson Mayo Clinic Rochester, MN Opinions expressed are necessarily mine, not necessarily those of the Mayo Foundation. Original message: Date:Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:17:44 -0400 From:Leigh Gruber [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? Good Morning Listers, We have an existing system operating with the Submitter Mode set to Changeable. This system has around 750 forms with a mix of Remedy and home grown applications. We need to change submitter mode to Locked so we can host another custom application which must run in Submitter Mode Locked. I have 3 questions! 1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the submitter field? I have set the development box to Submitter Mode locked and tried some very limited record modification, but I don't have any testing resources available. snip I would appreciate any words of wisdom you might have for me. Many thanks, Leigh Gruber No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.2/894 - Release Date: 7/10/2007 5:44 PM ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
ARInside might be able to help _ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leigh Gruber Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:03 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? ** Doug, I completely forgot about possible DIRECT SQL commands. I'll add them to my list of things to check. Also I'll take a look at the filter_set.. tables too. I know there are many push actions which create new records. They aren't a problem, but sorting out the new record push actions from any that might attempt to update an existing record is my concern. Thanks Leigh _ From: Anderson, Douglas W. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 11:54 AM To: listmembers- arslist Cc: Leigh Gruber Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? Hi Leigh, You ought to be able to determine whether workflow modifies a Submitter field's contents by querying the ARS database. Run SQL queries against the filter_set, filter_push, actlink_set, and actlink_push tables to see whether fieldId 2 (Submitter) is the object of any set-field or push-field actions. The escalation actions are stored along with the filter actions, so you'll get 2-for-one there. That would not catch any direct-SQL modifications to Submitter, but I am not certain that having submitter mode = locked prevents those anyway. HTH, Doug Anderson Mayo Clinic Rochester, MN Opinions expressed are necessarily mine, not necessarily those of the Mayo Foundation. Original message: Date:Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:17:44 -0400 From:Leigh Gruber [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? Good Morning Listers, We have an existing system operating with the Submitter Mode set to Changeable. This system has around 750 forms with a mix of Remedy and home grown applications. We need to change submitter mode to Locked so we can host another custom application which must run in Submitter Mode Locked. I have 3 questions! 1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the submitter field? I have set the development box to Submitter Mode locked and tried some very limited record modification, but I don't have any testing resources available. snip I would appreciate any words of wisdom you might have for me. Many thanks, Leigh Gruber The information contained in this message may be privileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, or responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review, forwarding, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication or any attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please so notify the sender immediately, and delete it and all attachments from your computer and network. __20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in it___ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Yes, I think at the very least it would contrary to the spirit of the license agreement to change submitter field with SQL, if the mode was locked. Our mode is currently changeable, so I would just need to be sure we didn't do that in the past! It seems unlikely. Thanks, L. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe D'Souza Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 12:23 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? I do not think it would catch Direct SQL commands as an SQL statement in a Direct SQL command is not evaluated by the ARS before its passed to the DB for execution. You could pretty much type Hello and pass that to SQL and it would error only at the time of execution. However if you try to change the submitter value using Direct SQL, the database server would not return a valid SQL statement as an error and hence I am pretty certain it would execute.. Whether you are or not ALLOWED to do that without breaking a license agreement, I am not certain. Joe -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Anderson, Douglas W. Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 11:54 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? ** Hi Leigh, You ought to be able to determine whether workflow modifies a Submitter field's contents by querying the ARS database. Run SQL queries against the filter_set, filter_push, actlink_set, and actlink_push tables to see whether fieldId 2 (Submitter) is the object of any set-field or push-field actions. The escalation actions are stored along with the filter actions, so you'll get 2-for-one there. That would not catch any direct-SQL modifications to Submitter, but I am not certain that having submitter mode = locked prevents those anyway. HTH, Doug Anderson Mayo Clinic Rochester, MN Opinions expressed are necessarily mine, not necessarily those of the Mayo Foundation. Original message: Date:Wed, 11 Jul 2007 10:17:44 -0400 From:Leigh Gruber [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? Good Morning Listers, We have an existing system operating with the Submitter Mode set to Changeable. This system has around 750 forms with a mix of Remedy and home grown applications. We need to change submitter mode to Locked so we can host another custom application which must run in Submitter Mode Locked. I have 3 questions! 1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the submitter field? I have set the development box to Submitter Mode locked and tried some very limited record modification, but I don't have any testing resources available. snip I would appreciate any words of wisdom you might have for me. Many thanks, Leigh Gruber __20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in it___ The information contained in this message may be privileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, or responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review, forwarding, dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication or any attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please so notify the sender immediately, and delete it and all attachments from your computer and network. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Fred,
Norm and I have been having a side discussion. Each of us read your
response differently. I get in trouble when I assume. Could you
clarify your response for me?
Thanks,
Dave
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Grooms, Frederick W
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:57 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
**
Once a record has been created Remedy will not let you change the
Submitter (field ID 2) field. Submitter mode Locked means that even if
the Submitter has a Read License they will be able to update the record
(the non system fields of course) where they are the submitter not that
they can change the Submitter field.
Fred
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Teale, Steven
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:44 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
**
Leigh,
There are some spreadsheets I have seen that will do some pretty clever
analysis on workflow from def files.
You could also run some sample logging and look for pushes to that
field.
Steven Teale
AEGON Shared Services
Louisville, Kentucky
Phone: 502.560.2856
Mobile: 502.243.5619
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Check Us Out ! www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leigh Gruber
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:18 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Good Morning Listers,
We have an existing system operating with the Submitter Mode set to
Changeable. This system has around 750 forms with a mix of Remedy and
home grown applications. We need to change submitter mode to Locked so
we can host another custom application which must run in Submitter Mode
Locked.
I have 3 questions!
1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to
determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the
submitter field? I have set the development box to Submitter Mode
locked and tried some very limited record modification, but I don't have
any testing resources available.
Here's what I've tried so far on our dev system (Remedy 6.3; MS SQL
Server):
* Analyzed Advanced search results on the object_search_details
form. The selection criteria was ('Item Details' LIKE %Submitter%)
AND NOT('Item Details' LIKE %1 = 0%). I haven't seen a problem in
resulting (100 or so) records.
* I've also checked the Submitter field #2 for other names it may
have.
2. Are there any gotchas I should know about that might cause us
problems if/when I change the production system?
3. Is it safe to assume that our Remedy/BMC applications will NOT have
workflow that writes to the Submitter form?
I would appreciate any words of wisdom you might have for me.
Many thanks,
Leigh Gruber
__20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in
it___
___
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Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Yup - this one got us stumped, too. Submitter Mode Locked simply means that the value entered in Field ID 2 for a record can't be changed after it's been created. Fred's response seems to indicate that there's some kind license or permission behavior difference relative to Submitter Mode setting, which I don't believe to be the case. That said, Submitter is a permission group, and changing the value of Submitter could reassign permissions from one person to another, but that's not the central point here. There was a subsequent thread that changing Submitter Mode and/or using Direct SQL to do so would violate the spirit of the license agreement. I don't understand what Submitter Mode has to do with licenses - it's simply a server setting that allows or disallows the value in a field to be changed. Mike White Office: 813-978-2192 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Shellman, David [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG RONICS.COM cc: Sent by: Action RequestSubject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? System discussion list(ARSList) arslist@ARSLIST.ORG 07/11/2007 12:46 Please respond to arslist ** Fred, Norm and I have been having a side discussion. Each of us read your response differently. I get in trouble when I assume. Could you clarify your response for me? Thanks, Dave From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Grooms, Frederick W Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:57 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? ** Once a record has been created Remedy will not let you change the Submitter (field ID 2) field. Submitter mode Locked means that even if the Submitter has a Read License they will be able to update the record (the non system fields of course) where they are the submitter not that they can change the Submitter field. Fred From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Teale, Steven Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:44 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? ** Leigh, There are some spreadsheets I have seen that will do some pretty clever analysis on workflow from def files. You could also run some sample logging and look for pushes to that field. Steven Teale AEGON Shared Services Louisville, Kentucky Phone: 502.560.2856 Mobile: 502.243.5619 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check Us Out ! www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leigh Gruber Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:18 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? Good Morning Listers, We have an existing system operating with the Submitter Mode set to Changeable. This system has around 750 forms with a mix of Remedy and home grown applications. We need to change submitter mode to Locked so we can host another custom application which must run in Submitter Mode Locked. I have 3 questions! 1. Is there any way, other than ones that require “brute force”, to determine
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Leigh, I totally agree with your concerns about changing the Submitter mode value on an ARS server.. They are well founded. If you have an application that is designed for Submitter mode = Locked then it should also work fine on a server with Submitter mode = Changeable too. However the reverse is not true. ( If the application is designed for Changeable it _may_ not work in a Locked environment. ) Personally I think the behavior of a Push action should be more intelligent to the environment setting of Submitter mode during its Modify behavior. If Submitter mode = Locked then field 2 values should never be Pushed to the target record for a Modify. (Yes it can be sent during a Submit.) It just seems like a simple change to make that would prevent a lot of pain for all application developers. Maybe it becomes a footnote in some of the docs, but the reason the workflow would work that way is to honor the user defined configuration of the AR Server. I have often wondered how much effort was put into the OOB apps due to the above gotchas with ARS workflow and the Submitter mode setting. I also think some changes should be made in the by matching field ID stuff too. But this is a slightly different topic for Push actions and does not depend on Submitter mode. Like prevent modify of core field IDs ( field ID 1-99) by default. There might be a need/want to also allow a way to define exceptions to core field IDs to force them to be modified too. I can see some arguments for the fields 4,7, 8, and maybe for other fields like 16-99 [If I knew what those fields are. :) ]. But you could just as easily define a local, non-core field that you could use to communicate those few core field values too. So the workaround for not having an exception list would be easy enough to do and keep the change in the basic action much smaller. So the exception list would be overkill in my book. Back to your original questions: 1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the submitter field? I have set the development box to Submitter Mode locked and tried some very limited record modification, but I don't have any testing resources available. Testing is the most accurate way to know the actual answer. In theory you might find a bug that includes field 2 in a push action even though it is not defined in the workflow. (Like the ARS Server incorrectly parse the Push action and splits a 2 off the end of a different field ID that was actully in the Push action. ) But that kind of bug has not been seen by me, and I hope it never is. :) However, looking through the workflow is your best predictive approach to the problem. Several good tools have been listed. However I think ARSDocs was left out of the list. So let me push that one out there too... https://sourceforge.net/projects/arsdoc 2. Are there any gotchas I should know about that might cause us problems if/when I change the production system? Yep. First you have to stop and start the AR Server to make the newly changed Mode effective. So you need a change window to have an outage to change the setting. And if you find problems in production then you have to make the choice between having an outage or living with the problem until you can have an outage. If you find workflow (Push or Set actions) that try to alter the field then the users will be BLOCKED from using the application (as they expect it to work) after you go from Changed to Locked. 3. Is it safe to assume that our Remedy/BMC applications will NOT have workflow that writes to the Submitter form? Uh... IMHO, that is not a save assumption to make. There were many versions of the OOB's that were not fully Submitter Mode = Locked compliant. Those need checking/testing too. HTH. -- Carey Matthew Black Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP) ARS = Action Request System(Remedy) Love, then teach Solution = People + Process + Tools Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Well, the submitter mode is tied to the license agreement. Here's how it works...or it least how I explain it to myself: The default mode is submitter mode is changeable, meaning the value of the submitter field can be changed via workflow. In this mode, people with read licenses cannot update records submitted by themselves, because then it would be very easy to circumvent the write license enforcing code all together. That is, if a person with a read license can update a record if he's the submitter AND the submitter value can be changed with workflow, one could easily design a system whereby a user with a free read license could update ANY record by simply first changing the submitter value to the username of the person desiring to make the change. So to prevent this, if you set the submitter mode to LOCKED, a person with a read license can update a record HE created, but the submitter field is unchangeable...PERIOD. If submitter is changeable, the submitter field value can be changed via workflow, but people with read licenses cannot update records. In short, it's just a measure to help prevent people from skirting the license agreement. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike White Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 12:24 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? Yup - this one got us stumped, too. Submitter Mode Locked simply means that the value entered in Field ID 2 for a record can't be changed after it's been created. Fred's response seems to indicate that there's some kind license or permission behavior difference relative to Submitter Mode setting, which I don't believe to be the case. That said, Submitter is a permission group, and changing the value of Submitter could reassign permissions from one person to another, but that's not the central point here. There was a subsequent thread that changing Submitter Mode and/or using Direct SQL to do so would violate the spirit of the license agreement. I don't understand what Submitter Mode has to do with licenses - it's simply a server setting that allows or disallows the value in a field to be changed. Mike White Office: 813-978-2192 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Shellman, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] Shellman, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) arslist@ARSLIST.ORG 07/11/2007 12:46 Please respond to arslist To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG cc: Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? ** Fred, Norm and I have been having a side discussion. Each of us read your response differently. I get in trouble when I assume. Could you clarify your response for me? Thanks, Dave From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Grooms, Frederick W Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:57 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? ** Once a record has been created Remedy will not let you change the Submitter (field ID 2) field. Submitter mode Locked means that even if the Submitter has a Read License they will be able to update the record (the non system fields of course) where they are the submitter not that they can change the Submitter field. Fred From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Teale, Steven Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:44 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? ** Leigh, There are some spreadsheets I have seen that will do some pretty clever analysis on workflow from def files. You could also run some sample logging and look for pushes to that field. Steven Teale AEGON Shared Services Louisville, Kentucky Phone: 502.560.2856 Mobile: 502.243.5619 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Check Us Out ! www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leigh Gruber Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:18 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? Good Morning Listers, We have an existing system operating with the Submitter Mode set to Changeable. This system has around 750 forms with a mix of Remedy and home grown applications. We need to change submitter mode to Locked so we can host another custom application which must run in Submitter Mode Locked. I have 3 questions! 1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the submitter field? I have set the development box to Submitter Mode locked and tried some very limited record
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
We could not work if we could not set the submitter field on create. We have people submitting tickets for other people. When this happens we set the submitter field to the customer id. So they can modify certain fields we have set to submitter -modify. If we could not do this we would have to thousands of license for our people world-wide. and some of those people only have 1 or 2 tickets per year. If we had to have thousands of license I know we would dump ready in a heartbeat as we could not afford it. *Rocky* Rocky Rockwell eMA Team – Remedy Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph#1: 214-567-8874 Ph#2: 325-884-1263 Carey Matthew Black wrote: Leigh, I totally agree with your concerns about changing the Submitter mode value on an ARS server.. They are well founded. If you have an application that is designed for Submitter mode = Locked then it should also work fine on a server with Submitter mode = Changeable too. However the reverse is not true. ( If the application is designed for Changeable it _may_ not work in a Locked environment. ) Personally I think the behavior of a Push action should be more intelligent to the environment setting of Submitter mode during its Modify behavior. If Submitter mode = Locked then field 2 values should never be Pushed to the target record for a Modify. (Yes it can be sent during a Submit.) It just seems like a simple change to make that would prevent a lot of pain for all application developers. Maybe it becomes a footnote in some of the docs, but the reason the workflow would work that way is to honor the user defined configuration of the AR Server. I have often wondered how much effort was put into the OOB apps due to the above gotchas with ARS workflow and the Submitter mode setting. I also think some changes should be made in the by matching field ID stuff too. But this is a slightly different topic for Push actions and does not depend on Submitter mode. Like prevent modify of core field IDs ( field ID 1-99) by default. There might be a need/want to also allow a way to define exceptions to core field IDs to force them to be modified too. I can see some arguments for the fields 4,7, 8, and maybe for other fields like 16-99 [If I knew what those fields are. :) ]. But you could just as easily define a local, non-core field that you could use to communicate those few core field values too. So the workaround for not having an exception list would be easy enough to do and keep the change in the basic action much smaller. So the exception list would be overkill in my book. Back to your original questions: 1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the submitter field? I have set the development box to Submitter Mode locked and tried some very limited record modification, but I don't have any testing resources available. Testing is the most accurate way to know the actual answer. In theory you might find a bug that includes field 2 in a push action even though it is not defined in the workflow. (Like the ARS Server incorrectly parse the Push action and splits a 2 off the end of a different field ID that was actully in the Push action. ) But that kind of bug has not been seen by me, and I hope it never is. :) However, looking through the workflow is your best predictive approach to the problem. Several good tools have been listed. However I think ARSDocs was left out of the list. So let me push that one out there too... https://sourceforge.net/projects/arsdoc 2. Are there any gotchas I should know about that might cause us problems if/when I change the production system? Yep. First you have to stop and start the AR Server to make the newly changed Mode effective. So you need a change window to have an outage to change the setting. And if you find problems in production then you have to make the choice between having an outage or living with the problem until you can have an outage. If you find workflow (Push or Set actions) that try to alter the field then the users will be BLOCKED from using the application (as they expect it to work) after you go from Changed to Locked. 3. Is it safe to assume that our Remedy/BMC applications will NOT have workflow that writes to the Submitter form? Uh... IMHO, that is not a save assumption to make. There were many versions of the OOB's that were not fully Submitter Mode = Locked compliant. Those need checking/testing too. HTH. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
If you have an application that is designed for Submitter mode = Locked then it should also work fine on a server with Submitter mode = Changeable too. However the reverse is not true. ( If the application is designed for Changeable it _may_ not work in a Locked environment. ) This is not necessarily true! If you have an app that's designed to allow people with just a READ license to update their own requests--thus the app is designed to run on a SUBMITTER LOCKED server--setting the server to SUBMITTER CHANGEABLE will block those people from being able to do that. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Mike, The submitter mode Locked has everything to do with Licenses for my purposes!! The LICENSE aspect applies when you have an application like ours which is designed to operate with Read only licenses. When the submitter mode is LOCKED, my application (which tracks employees' skill sets) allows all the employees in the company to submit and MODIFY their own skill sets with only READ licenses... NO license charge for the vast majority of our employees who only enter and update their own skill sets. This whole email thread started because I want to move this app to a different server that is running with the submitter mode changeable. In order for the app to run (and not cost us big $$$ in extra licenses) I need to put the destination server in server mode locked. I don't want to mess up the existing applications on the destination server. If I lock the submitter and then the users hit workflow which would ordinarily be able to change the submitter field, there will be an uproar!! Too many forms and too little knowledge on my part of the existing apps caused me to request help. Now if I haven't' confused the heck out of everyone, I'd like to thank everyone for their help and ideas. Best regards, Leigh From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike White Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 1:24 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? Yup - this one got us stumped, too. Submitter Mode Locked simply means that the value entered in Field ID 2 for a record can't be changed after it's been created. Fred's response seems to indicate that there's some kind license or permission behavior difference relative to Submitter Mode setting, which I don't believe to be the case. That said, Submitter is a permission group, and changing the value of Submitter could reassign permissions from one person to another, but that's not the central point here. There was a subsequent thread that changing Submitter Mode and/or using Direct SQL to do so would violate the spirit of the license agreement. I don't understand what Submitter Mode has to do with licenses - it's simply a server setting that allows or disallows the value in a field to be changed. Mike White Office: 813-978-2192 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Shellman, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] Shellman, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) arslist@ARSLIST.ORG 07/11/2007 12:46 Please respond to arslist To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG cc: Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? ** Fred, Norm and I have been having a side discussion. Each of us read your response differently. I get in trouble when I assume. Could you clarify your response for me? Thanks, Dave From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Grooms, Frederick W Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:57 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? ** Once a record has been created Remedy will not let you change the Submitter (field ID 2) field. Submitter mode Locked means that even if the Submitter has a Read License they will be able to update the record (the non system fields of course) where they are the submitter not that they can change the Submitter field. Fred From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Teale, Steven Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:44 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? ** Leigh, There are some spreadsheets I have seen that will do some pretty clever analysis on workflow from def files. You could also run some sample logging and look for pushes to that field. Steven Teale AEGON Shared Services Louisville, Kentucky Phone: 502.560.2856 Mobile: 502.243.5619 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Check Us Out ! www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leigh Gruber Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:18 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? Good Morning Listers, We have an existing system operating with the Submitter Mode set to Changeable. This system has around 750 forms with a mix of Remedy and home grown applications. We need to change submitter mode to Locked so we can host another custom application which must run in Submitter Mode Locked. I have 3 questions! 1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the submitter field? I have set
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Having 'Submitter Mode' = Locked does have a very dramatic effect on what a Read licensed user can do. With 'Submitter Mode' = Locked a Read license can: A) Query and Submit new records where their 'Group List' allows them to have access to the form and all the fields of interest. B) For any existing record where $ USER$ = Field 2 and the Submitter Group has change access to the fields then the Read licensed $ USER$ can change (modify) the fields value. However if 'Submitter Mode' = Changeable a Read license can: A) Query and Submit new records where their 'Group List' allows them to have access to the form and all the fields of interest. and CAN NOT Modify any record on the server. If the user has a Fixed or Float license then the 'Submitter Mode' = Locked does not really apply. Well it could apply if the user has a Float license and all the Float tokens are currently in use by other users. ( However, the user would likely be use to doing other actions that are not permitted by the Submitter access control [group] too. So they might be able to make some changes to the record, but maybe not all of their normal changes.) -- Carey Matthew Black Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP) ARS = Action Request System(Remedy) Love, then teach Solution = People + Process + Tools Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two. On 7/11/07, Mike White [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yup - this one got us stumped, too. Submitter Mode Locked simply means that the value entered in Field ID 2 for a record can't be changed after it's been created. Fred's response seems to indicate that there's some kind license or permission behavior difference relative to Submitter Mode setting, which I don't believe to be the case. That said, Submitter is a permission group, and changing the value of Submitter could reassign permissions from one person to another, but that's not the central point here. There was a subsequent thread that changing Submitter Mode and/or using Direct SQL to do so would violate the spirit of the license agreement. I don't understand what Submitter Mode has to do with licenses - it's simply a server setting that allows or disallows the value in a field to be changed. Mike White Office: 813-978-2192 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Grooms, Frederick W Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:57 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? ** Once a record has been created Remedy will not let you change the Submitter (field ID 2) field. Submitter mode Locked means that even if the Submitter has a Read License they will be able to update the record (the non system fields of course) where they are the submitter not that they can change the Submitter field. Fred ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
I was commenting on the Submitter Mode functionality ... from the 6.3
docs Configuring AR System Guide p136
Submitter Mode
Defines the conditions under which submitters can modify the requests
they initially submit (that is, where their names are in the Submitter
field). Choose one of the following options:
- Locked-Users can modify requests they submit without a write license.
This does not apply to users with a Restricted Read license who cannot
modify requests under any circumstances. In the locked submitter mode,
after the entry is submitted, the value in the Submitter field cannot be
changed.
- Changeable (the default)-Users must have a write license to modify
requests.
Note: Changes to the Submitter Mode settings do not take effect until
the server is stopped and restarted.
I believe the default on Remedy forms (no matter how the Submitter-Mode
is set) is that the Submitter field is Read-Only when Displaying a
record
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Shellman, David
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 11:46 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
**
Fred,
Norm and I have been having a side discussion. Each of us read your
response differently. I get in trouble when I assume. Could you
clarify your response for me?
Thanks,
Dave
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Grooms, Frederick W
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:57 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
**
Once a record has been created Remedy will not let you change the
Submitter (field ID 2) field. Submitter mode Locked means that even if
the Submitter has a Read License they will be able to update the record
(the non system fields of course) where they are the submitter not that
they can change the Submitter field.
Fred
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Teale, Steven
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:44 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
**
Leigh,
There are some spreadsheets I have seen that will do some pretty clever
analysis on workflow from def files.
You could also run some sample logging and look for pushes to that
field.
Steven Teale
AEGON Shared Services
Louisville, Kentucky
Phone: 502.560.2856
Mobile: 502.243.5619
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Check Us Out ! www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leigh Gruber
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:18 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Good Morning Listers,
We have an existing system operating with the Submitter Mode set to
Changeable. This system has around 750 forms with a mix of Remedy and
home grown applications. We need to change submitter mode to Locked so
we can host another custom application which must run in Submitter Mode
Locked.
I have 3 questions!
1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to
determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the
submitter field? I have set the development box to Submitter Mode
locked and tried some very limited record modification, but I don't have
any testing resources available.
Here's what I've tried so far on our dev system (Remedy 6.3; MS SQL
Server):
* Analyzed Advanced search results on the object_search_details
form. The selection criteria was ('Item Details' LIKE %Submitter%)
AND NOT('Item Details' LIKE %1 = 0%). I haven't seen a problem in
resulting (100 or so) records.
* I've also checked the Submitter field #2 for other names it may
have.
2. Are there any gotchas I should know about that might cause us
problems if/when I change the production system?
3. Is it safe to assume that our Remedy/BMC applications will NOT have
workflow that writes to the Submitter form?
I would appreciate any words of wisdom you might have for me.
Many thanks,
Leigh Gruber
__20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in
it___ __20060125___This posting was submitted with
HTML in it___
___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the
Answers Are
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
The old 5.x apps we still have in production (and earlier versions) used a Submitter = Requester push or set fields on Submit mechanism to ensure that the Requesters would always be able to update their own tickets, which normally are submitted on their behalf by agents or other IT staff. ITSM 7 does NOT work this way, except through the Requester Console service requests. Christopher Strauss, Ph.D. Remedy Database Administrator University of North Texas Computing Center http://remedy.unt.edu/helpdesk/ -Original Message- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rocky Rockwell Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 12:40 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? We could not work if we could not set the submitter field on create. We have people submitting tickets for other people. When this happens we set the submitter field to the customer id. So they can modify certain fields we have set to submitter -modify. If we could not do this we would have to thousands of license for our people world-wide. and some of those people only have 1 or 2 tickets per year. If we had to have thousands of license I know we would dump ready in a heartbeat as we could not afford it. *Rocky* Rocky Rockwell eMA Team - Remedy Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph#1: 214-567-8874 Ph#2: 325-884-1263 Carey Matthew Black wrote: Leigh, I totally agree with your concerns about changing the Submitter mode value on an ARS server.. They are well founded. If you have an application that is designed for Submitter mode = Locked then it should also work fine on a server with Submitter mode = Changeable too. However the reverse is not true. ( If the application is designed for Changeable it _may_ not work in a Locked environment. ) Personally I think the behavior of a Push action should be more intelligent to the environment setting of Submitter mode during its Modify behavior. If Submitter mode = Locked then field 2 values should never be Pushed to the target record for a Modify. (Yes it can be sent during a Submit.) It just seems like a simple change to make that would prevent a lot of pain for all application developers. Maybe it becomes a footnote in some of the docs, but the reason the workflow would work that way is to honor the user defined configuration of the AR Server. I have often wondered how much effort was put into the OOB apps due to the above gotchas with ARS workflow and the Submitter mode setting. I also think some changes should be made in the by matching field ID stuff too. But this is a slightly different topic for Push actions and does not depend on Submitter mode. Like prevent modify of core field IDs ( field ID 1-99) by default. There might be a need/want to also allow a way to define exceptions to core field IDs to force them to be modified too. I can see some arguments for the fields 4,7, 8, and maybe for other fields like 16-99 [If I knew what those fields are. :) ]. But you could just as easily define a local, non-core field that you could use to communicate those few core field values too. So the workaround for not having an exception list would be easy enough to do and keep the change in the basic action much smaller. So the exception list would be overkill in my book. Back to your original questions: 1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the submitter field? I have set the development box to Submitter Mode locked and tried some very limited record modification, but I don't have any testing resources available. Testing is the most accurate way to know the actual answer. In theory you might find a bug that includes field 2 in a push action even though it is not defined in the workflow. (Like the ARS Server incorrectly parse the Push action and splits a 2 off the end of a different field ID that was actully in the Push action. ) But that kind of bug has not been seen by me, and I hope it never is. :) However, looking through the workflow is your best predictive approach to the problem. Several good tools have been listed. However I think ARSDocs was left out of the list. So let me push that one out there too... https://sourceforge.net/projects/arsdoc 2. Are there any gotchas I should know about that might cause us problems if/when I change the production system? Yep. First you have to stop and start the AR Server to make the newly changed Mode effective. So you need a change window to have an outage to change the setting. And if you find problems in production then you have to make the choice between having an outage or living with the problem until you can have an outage. If you find workflow (Push or Set actions) that try to alter the field then the users will be BLOCKED
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Well there is a difference in behavior and what can be done..
Here's the info from the Config Doc:
Defines the conditions under which submitters can modify the requests
they initially submit (that is, where their names are in the Submitter
field). Choose one of the following options:
! Locked-Users can modify requests they submit without a write license.
This does not apply to users with a Restricted Read license who cannot
modify requests under any circumstances. In the locked submitter mode,
after the entry is submitted, the value in the Submitter field cannot be
changed.
! Changeable (the default)-Users must have a write license to modify
requests.
Dave
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike White
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 1:24 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Yup - this one got us stumped, too.
Submitter Mode Locked simply means that the value entered in Field ID 2
for a record can't be changed after it's been created.
Fred's response seems to indicate that there's some kind license or
permission behavior difference relative to Submitter Mode setting, which
I don't believe to be the case. That said, Submitter is a permission
group, and changing the value of Submitter could reassign permissions
from one person to another, but that's not the central point here.
There was a subsequent thread that changing Submitter Mode and/or using
Direct SQL to do so would violate the spirit of the license agreement. I
don't understand what Submitter Mode has to do with licenses - it's
simply a server setting that allows or disallows the value in a field to
be changed.
Mike White
Office: 813-978-2192
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Shellman, David [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Shellman, David
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: Action Request System
discussion list(ARSList) arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
07/11/2007 12:46
Please respond to arslist
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
cc:
Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
**
Fred,
Norm and I have been having a side discussion. Each of us read your
response differently. I get in trouble when I assume. Could you clarify
your response for me?
Thanks,
Dave
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Grooms, Frederick W
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:57 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
**
Once a record has been created Remedy will not let you change the
Submitter (field ID 2) field. Submitter mode Locked means that even if
the Submitter has a Read License they will be able to update the record
(the non system fields of course) where they are the submitter not that
they can change the Submitter field.
Fred
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Teale, Steven
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 9:44 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
**
Leigh,
There are some spreadsheets I have seen that will do some pretty clever
analysis on workflow from def files.
You could also run some sample logging and look for pushes to that
field.
Steven Teale
AEGON Shared Services
Louisville, Kentucky
Phone: 502.560.2856
Mobile: 502.243.5619
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Check Us Out ! www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
http://www.aegonusa.com/AITSharedServices
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leigh Gruber
Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:18 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Good Morning Listers,
We have an existing system operating with the Submitter Mode set to
Changeable. This system has around 750 forms with a mix of Remedy and
home grown applications. We need to change submitter mode to Locked so
we can host another custom application which must run in Submitter Mode
Locked.
I have 3 questions!
1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to
determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the
submitter field? I have set the development box to Submitter Mode locked
and tried some very limited record modification, but I don't have any
testing resources available.
Here's what I've tried so far on our dev system (Remedy 6.3; MS SQL
Server):
* Analyzed Advanced search results on the
object_search_details form. The selection criteria was ('Item Details'
LIKE %Submitter%) AND NOT('Item Details' LIKE %1 = 0%). I haven't
seen a problem in resulting (100
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Thanks all for 'splaining the relationship to read/write licenses. Interesting discussion. (I learn something new every day...) Mike White Office: 813-978-2192 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Carey Matthew Black To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG [EMAIL PROTECTED]cc: COM Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? Sent by: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [EMAIL PROTECTED] ORG 07/11/2007 13:39 Please respond to arslist Having 'Submitter Mode' = Locked does have a very dramatic effect on what a Read licensed user can do. With 'Submitter Mode' = Locked a Read license can: A) Query and Submit new records where their 'Group List' allows them to have access to the form and all the fields of interest. B) For any existing record where $ USER$ = Field 2 and the Submitter Group has change access to the fields then the Read licensed $ USER$ can change (modify) the fields value. However if 'Submitter Mode' = Changeable a Read license can: A) Query and Submit new records where their 'Group List' allows them to have access to the form and all the fields of interest. and CAN NOT Modify any record on the server. If the user has a Fixed or Float license then the 'Submitter Mode' = Locked does not really apply. Well it could apply if the user has a Float license and all the Float tokens are currently in use by other users. ( However, the user would likely be use to doing other actions that are not permitted by the Submitter access control [group] too. So they might be able to make some changes to the record, but maybe not all of their normal changes.) -- Carey Matthew Black Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP) ARS = Action Request System(Remedy) Love, then teach Solution = People + Process + Tools Fast, Accurate, Cheap Pick two. On 7/11/07, Mike White [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yup - this one got us stumped, too. Submitter Mode Locked simply means that the value entered in Field ID 2 for a record can't be changed after it's been created. Fred's response seems to indicate that there's some kind license or permission behavior difference relative to Submitter Mode setting, which I don't believe to be the case. That said, Submitter is a permission group, and changing the value of Submitter could reassign permissions from one person to another, but that's not the central point here. There was a subsequent thread that changing Submitter Mode and/or using Direct SQL to do so would violate the spirit of the license agreement. I don't understand what Submitter Mode has to do with licenses - it's simply a server setting that allows or disallows the value in a field to be changed. Mike White Office: 813-978-2192 E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] snip From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Grooms, Frederick W Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2007 10:57 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force? ** Once a record has been created Remedy will not let you change the Submitter (field ID 2) field. Submitter mode Locked means that even if the Submitter has a Read License they will be able to update the record (the non system fields of course) where they are the submitter not that they can change the Submitter field. Fred ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
That is the point I was trying to make from a comment made. that the licenses are not affected if the submitter field is locked or unlocked. It does or I would be buying a ton of licenses. *Rocky* Rocky Rockwell eMA Team – Remedy Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph#1: 214-567-8874 Ph#2: 325-884-1263 Carey Matthew Black wrote: Rocky, Hum... I am not sure where some of your response came from... I am guessing that you do understand the details, but just to make sure we (all on arslist) are all on the same page The ability to set the submitter field on create is not altered based on the Submitter Mode value(Changeable or Locked). The user and workflow are able to alter the value up and to the point that it is first saved to the DB. [So all the way through Submit filters, but not in After Submit Active Links.] After that point however if Submitter Mode =Locked then an AR Server will not let the user or the ARS workflow MODIFY the value. ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers Are
Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
(off the top of my head - so some details are missing - but you should get
the point)
A technique to find if you can take advantage of submitter mode locked:
Create a new table called SubmitterChangeTracker
create a filter if 'TR.Submitter' != $NULL$ -- push a record to
SubmitterChangeTracker with schemaname, recordnumber, etc
Put that filter on Modify -- for all your schemas
Then let it run for a week -- if you find records in SubmitterChangeTracker
-- you will be able to track it down.
etc...
-John
On 7/11/07, Leigh Gruber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
**
Good Morning Listers,
We have an existing system operating with the Submitter Mode set to
Changeable. This system has around 750 forms with a mix of Remedy and home
grown applications. We need to change submitter mode to Locked so we can
host another custom application which must run in Submitter Mode Locked.
I have 3 questions!
1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to
determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the submitter
field? I have set the development box to Submitter Mode locked and tried
some very limited record modification, but I don't have any testing
resources available.
Here's what I've tried so far on our dev system (Remedy 6.3; MS SQL
Server):
- Analyzed Advanced search results on the object_search_details
form. The selection criteria was ('Item Details' LIKE %Submitter%) AND
NOT('Item Details' LIKE %1 = 0%). I haven't seen a problem in resulting
(100 or so) records.
- I've also checked the Submitter field #2 for other names it may
have.
2. Are there any gotchas I should know about that might cause us
problems if/when I change the production system?
3. Is it safe to assume that our Remedy/BMC applications will NOT have
workflow that writes to the Submitter form?
I would appreciate any words of wisdom you might have for me.
Many thanks,
Leigh Gruber
The information contained in this message may be privileged and/or
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attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in
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John David Sundberg
235 East 6th Street, Suite 400B
St. Paul, MN 55101
(651) 556-0930-work
(651) 247-6766-cell
(651) 695-8577-fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
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Re: Submitter Mode - Locked ...Brute force?
Side note:
In my survey for 6/22/2007
http://kineticsr.kineticdata.com/kinetic/6-22-07_arslist_survey.html
I noticed approx 1/2 (or at least -- way too close to half) of the group
uses submitter mode changeable.
Funny observation -- 1/2 the people on the list (and the world) are above
average and 1/2 are below average -- I think that a direct relationship
exists for submitter mode locked vs changeable.
NOW CHANGE YOUR SETTINGS.
-John
On 7/11/07, Leigh Gruber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
**
Good Morning Listers,
We have an existing system operating with the Submitter Mode set to
Changeable. This system has around 750 forms with a mix of Remedy and home
grown applications. We need to change submitter mode to Locked so we can
host another custom application which must run in Submitter Mode Locked.
I have 3 questions!
1. Is there any way, other than ones that require brute force, to
determine if the original system has workflow that modifies the submitter
field? I have set the development box to Submitter Mode locked and tried
some very limited record modification, but I don't have any testing
resources available.
Here's what I've tried so far on our dev system (Remedy 6.3; MS SQL
Server):
- Analyzed Advanced search results on the object_search_details
form. The selection criteria was ('Item Details' LIKE %Submitter%) AND
NOT('Item Details' LIKE %1 = 0%). I haven't seen a problem in resulting
(100 or so) records.
- I've also checked the Submitter field #2 for other names it may
have.
2. Are there any gotchas I should know about that might cause us
problems if/when I change the production system?
3. Is it safe to assume that our Remedy/BMC applications will NOT have
workflow that writes to the Submitter form?
I would appreciate any words of wisdom you might have for me.
Many thanks,
Leigh Gruber
The information contained in this message may be privileged and/or
confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, or responsible for
delivering this message to the intended recipient, any review, forwarding,
dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication or any
attachment(s) is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in
error, please so notify the sender immediately, and delete it and all
attachments from your computer and network.
__20060125___This posting was submitted with HTML in
it___
--
John David Sundberg
235 East 6th Street, Suite 400B
St. Paul, MN 55101
(651) 556-0930-work
(651) 247-6766-cell
(651) 695-8577-fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
___
UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:Where the Answers
Are
