Re: [Assam] caste system
Santanu The case of Srimanta Sankaradeva Sangha in Assam is an example of people revolting against the old varna order and yet maintaining a Hindu identity. Here Sankaradeva's teachings came handy to built a new socio-religious system. The yuga dharma is 'naam' as per the tenets followed by SSS, as well as neo vaishnavite; while the reigning deities remain almost the same. The population of gods also maintained at 33 crores, on an average of 1 per 5 Hindus. Somewhere "shastra"s have mentioned - 'xatya yugot dhyan, tretat tapp, dwaporot puja, kolit 'naam'. Buddhism, Islam and Christianity are mostly 'naam' based. I think Assam's transition to Islam will be very smooth. manoj On 3/27/06, Roy, Santanu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Saurav, > > Thanks for your knowledgeable note. > > Two observations: > > 1. There are probably quite a few historical instances where castes have > been fostered within a non-Aryan jati or community that has come into > contact with mainstream Hinduism at a late stage. Indeed, the process by > which an outside jati enters into mainstream Hindu society must logically > consist of at least two social processes. First, the way the existing > mainstream society - the upper castes - in particular, view the community in > question - an exogenous aspect. Second, the way the jati views itself and > reshapes & redefines its own social stratification using the adopted > language and mirrors of mainstream Hindu society -an endogenous aspect. > Indeed, these two processes need not be congruent. The relics of these > processes are found in several low caste untouchable communities that have > their own "Brahmins". To the mainstream outsider, they are all untouchable, > but to the insider there is a caste system within - a microcosm of the > society that lies above them. A similar structure is also observed with > respect to many tribes prior to the importing of Brahmins from mainstream > society. > > 2. The varna system, like many other aspects of Hindu society, is in > fundamental contradiction with modern society. The question in my mind is > not whether Hinduism can be reformed. The real question is how will Hindus > resolve these contradictions between what they ought to hold sacred and the > needs of actual material life in today's society. > > One option is to stand by the varna system and all other traditional mores, > to oppose liberal western values and in effect, do a fundamentalist jig. > > The other option is to gloss over and plainly deny the existence of all > these aspects (as many on this net do) and then to march forward with a very > selective view of Hinduism that is in consonance with modern society and > liberal values. The trouble with this approach is that in all honesty, you > cannot be very sure of what it is you are clutching on to & therefore, in > the long run, are bound to run into certain contradictions - perhaps as your > children question you > > A third option would be to abandon the grand tradition altogether and, in > effect, convert to religious orders that have their own philosphical systems > that, even though historically rooted in the grand narrative, actually offer > a distinct axiomatic system (Buddhism and Jainism were among the many such > early orders, as were some of the Vaishnava orders). The third option is > essentially fractious and inimical to the cause of a grand Hindu identity. > But it may well be the most honest and logical way out for those who seek a > religion. > > Santanu-da. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of xourov pathok > Sent: Mon 3/27/2006 4:37 AM > To: assam@assamnet.org > Subject: [Assam] caste system > > a short note on the caste system: > > the varna system, which found its first mention in the > rig veda itself, has been the only unbroken tradition > of hinduism. gods have come and gone (from indra to > rudra to krishna), forms of worship has changed (from > yajnas to puja) but the varna system has persisted. > there is an oft repeated dictum, that hinduism did not > have a name for itself earlier. this is not true. > the name of the religion was varnashram dharma. the > varna system is the most defining aspect of hinduism. > > another dictum is that it divides. this also is > untrue. in fact the varna system makes it possible > for a jati to place itself in a readymade order. this > is important because there is no personal conversion > system in hinduism. instead entire jatis are > converted (by placing them in the varna system), like > the scythians and the koches were made hindus by > placing them in the kshatriya varna. this is > important. because it lets, say, a sarma or a barua > from assam relate in a some meaningful way with a > aiyar or an iyengar from tamil nadu. > > since the varna system is the most defining aspect of > hinduism, how can you remove or reform it out of the religion? > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired
Re: [Assam] caste system
Saurav, Thanks for your knowledgeable note. Two observations: 1. There are probably quite a few historical instances where castes have been fostered within a non-Aryan jati or community that has come into contact with mainstream Hinduism at a late stage. Indeed, the process by which an outside jati enters into mainstream Hindu society must logically consist of at least two social processes. First, the way the existing mainstream society - the upper castes - in particular, view the community in question - an exogenous aspect. Second, the way the jati views itself and reshapes & redefines its own social stratification using the adopted language and mirrors of mainstream Hindu society -an endogenous aspect. Indeed, these two processes need not be congruent. The relics of these processes are found in several low caste untouchable communities that have their own "Brahmins". To the mainstream outsider, they are all untouchable, but to the insider there is a caste system within - a microcosm of the society that lies above them. A similar structure is also observed with respect to many tribes prior to the importing of Brahmins from mainstream society. 2. The varna system, like many other aspects of Hindu society, is in fundamental contradiction with modern society. The question in my mind is not whether Hinduism can be reformed. The real question is how will Hindus resolve these contradictions between what they ought to hold sacred and the needs of actual material life in today's society. One option is to stand by the varna system and all other traditional mores, to oppose liberal western values and in effect, do a fundamentalist jig. The other option is to gloss over and plainly deny the existence of all these aspects (as many on this net do) and then to march forward with a very selective view of Hinduism that is in consonance with modern society and liberal values. The trouble with this approach is that in all honesty, you cannot be very sure of what it is you are clutching on to & therefore, in the long run, are bound to run into certain contradictions - perhaps as your children question you A third option would be to abandon the grand tradition altogether and, in effect, convert to religious orders that have their own philosphical systems that, even though historically rooted in the grand narrative, actually offer a distinct axiomatic system (Buddhism and Jainism were among the many such early orders, as were some of the Vaishnava orders). The third option is essentially fractious and inimical to the cause of a grand Hindu identity. But it may well be the most honest and logical way out for those who seek a religion. Santanu-da. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of xourov pathok Sent: Mon 3/27/2006 4:37 AM To: assam@assamnet.org Subject: [Assam] caste system a short note on the caste system: the varna system, which found its first mention in the rig veda itself, has been the only unbroken tradition of hinduism. gods have come and gone (from indra to rudra to krishna), forms of worship has changed (from yajnas to puja) but the varna system has persisted. there is an oft repeated dictum, that hinduism did not have a name for itself earlier. this is not true. the name of the religion was varnashram dharma. the varna system is the most defining aspect of hinduism. another dictum is that it divides. this also is untrue. in fact the varna system makes it possible for a jati to place itself in a readymade order. this is important because there is no personal conversion system in hinduism. instead entire jatis are converted (by placing them in the varna system), like the scythians and the koches were made hindus by placing them in the kshatriya varna. this is important. because it lets, say, a sarma or a barua from assam relate in a some meaningful way with a aiyar or an iyengar from tamil nadu. since the varna system is the most defining aspect of hinduism, how can you remove or reform it out of the religion? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] caste system
a short note on the caste system: the varna system, which found its first mention in the rig veda itself, has been the only unbroken tradition of hinduism. gods have come and gone (from indra to rudra to krishna), forms of worship has changed (from yajnas to puja) but the varna system has persisted. there is an oft repeated dictum, that hinduism did not have a name for itself earlier. this is not true. the name of the religion was varnashram dharma. the varna system is the most defining aspect of hinduism. another dictum is that it divides. this also is untrue. in fact the varna system makes it possible for a jati to place itself in a readymade order. this is important because there is no personal conversion system in hinduism. instead entire jatis are converted (by placing them in the varna system), like the scythians and the koches were made hindus by placing them in the kshatriya varna. this is important. because it lets, say, a sarma or a barua from assam relate in a some meaningful way with a aiyar or an iyengar from tamil nadu. since the varna system is the most defining aspect of hinduism, how can you remove or reform it out of the religion? __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] PLESE IGNROEWishes- afterthought - gender, romance , location
My sitake - I think I was thinking about something else and wrote assamnet's address automatically. Pl ignore. Umeshumesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:Dear Margaret, I hope you looked at my last letter (copied below this one). I wanted to add some more. Reading your last blog post in www.geocities.com/margaretelise/micronesia/ I was overcome with emotion and unburdened my deepest thoughts. To me - spending 3-5 weeks on bed thru illness in a strange place (even though a paradize like Micronesia) is an unbearbale thought - even I would feel very vulnerable in such a position. Though you are my Jane Goodall and I'm sure you can manage it bravely. Second, your post previous to that (3/17) showed that you were interviewing for a Korean jon (and you speak the language fluently) - for a moment I felt numb since I was hoping that at the end of your current job you would be back in US so we could meet - though I am all for females in my life working across the globe. (my current US visa expires on coming June end though I can stay on in US without working for 2 more months if trying for visa extension/change - and I am planning to apply for a non immigrant work visa [H-1B] thru my current job - though I am not very sure they would agree despite my good work which is being appreciated. I would also then try some K-12 schools as sponsors - my info is very limited about that and I would prefer to work with edu reform non profit than with a K-12 school. However, the other option is that my current F-1 student visa - on which I can stay on in USA indefinitely [it expires in '09] as long as I remain a full time student - be extended if I enroll in some teacher training program - it is very long shot since I would need atleast $15,000 ( i cannot work then) to stay on - a loan from somewhere - quite dicewy though. The Green Card permanant resident card [as legal immigrant] which gives all rights except voting in US alos needs a sponsor -either parents, children or spouse - seems like a workable option - if i find such a sponsor. Since I can then apply for any suitable work and be considered eligible for any work inside US [though it takes 6 months to process - though I can stay in US during that time or go abroad for short term edu reform volunteer /consultant position ] . Without work permit or Green Card it is rather unlikely that any US based employer would ever look at my resume for the kind of jon we prepared for at Harvard. The other starnge requirement is that visa /card holders have to spend a large portion of their time inside US until they finally apply for and become US citizens - it takes atleast 5 years after you get a Green Card though. Generally people come on H-1B (like my computer techie roommates and lanlord - all from India) and cross over to Green card and ina total 10 years become US citizens - all this while they have to spend 6-9 months each year inside US to be eligible. If they wantr to work all over the world as globally attuned execs/expats/workers - they have to wait for 10 years - I wonder how Prof. Reimers and his wife Prof. Velligas-Reimers managed that - after they both came yto Harvard from venezuela. I remember Prof Fernando Reimers spent more than two years in Pakistan while working for HIID (Harvard Inst. of Intl. Dev) . His wife I think worked all this while in US for Wheelock College perhaps on work visa. I had hoped to evade this search for H-1B and Green Card - by coming to DC and straightaway getting a global career with World Bank or getting a foreign posting (as expat) in some third country with some Itnl NGO - but that seems like a futile search - with about 300 applicants for every job which is advertised - even in farthest NGOS like Norvegian Refugee Council -which gave me these fugures for an Afghanistan based post. Tucker said that same about his experience inside US. Most applicants from rich countries already have had experience of working at a variety of international locations in developing countires -which perhaps more than offsets my Harvard degree and India specific experience. Thus, I am now trying this more rugged and circuitous route of working in US -even though I have always been keenly interestd in comparing Indian and US edu systems -which I had mentioned in my SOP for Harvard admission. Working with school kids in US has been a challenging [esp. culturally] which I feel most US/West based teachers /volunteers in other countires may not be facing in poor countries [except for language tough I did face accent problem sometims still do] . Though I spend only 3 hours per day at work [plus 3 more commuting] it is very exhaisting and I feel I need to continue this half load till I am acclimatized. Coming back to the relationhip question I had been wondering when we would meet gain [though internet has improved communication and eeling of being near dramatically]. Last week I was victim of a lottery hoax [by ema
Re: [Assam] Wishes- afterthought - gender, romance , location
Dear Margaret, I hope you looked at my last letter (copied below this one). I wanted to add some more. Reading your last blog post in www.geocities.com/margaretelise/micronesia/ I was overcome with emotion and unburdened my deepest thoughts. To me - spending 3-5 weeks on bed thru illness in a strange place (even though a paradize like Micronesia) is an unbearbale thought - even I would feel very vulnerable in such a position. Though you are my Jane Goodall and I'm sure you can manage it bravely. Second, your post previous to that (3/17) showed that you were interviewing for a Korean jon (and you speak the language fluently) - for a moment I felt numb since I was hoping that at the end of your current job you would be back in US so we could meet - though I am all for females in my life working across the globe. (my current US visa expires on coming June end though I can stay on in US without working for 2 more months if trying for visa extension/change - and I am planning to apply for a non immigrant work visa [H-1B] thru my current job - though I am not very sure they would agree despite my good work which is being appreciated. I would also then try some K-12 schools as sponsors - my info is very limited about that and I would prefer to work with edu reform non profit than with a K-12 school. However, the other option is that my current F-1 student visa - on which I can stay on in USA indefinitely [it expires in '09] as long as I remain a full time student - be extended if I enroll in some teacher training program - it is very long shot since I would need atleast $15,000 ( i cannot work then) to stay on - a loan from somewhere - quite dicewy though. The Green Card permanant resident card [as legal immigrant] which gives all rights except voting in US alos needs a sponsor -either parents, children or spouse - seems like a workable option - if i find such a sponsor. Since I can then apply for any suitable work and be considered eligible for any work inside US [though it takes 6 months to process - though I can stay in US during that time or go abroad for short term edu reform volunteer /consultant position ] . Without work permit or Green Card it is rather unlikely that any US based employer would ever look at my resume for the kind of jon we prepared for at Harvard. The other starnge requirement is that visa /card holders have to spend a large portion of their time inside US until they finally apply for and become US citizens - it takes atleast 5 years after you get a Green Card though. Generally people come on H-1B (like my computer techie roommates and lanlord - all from India) and cross over to Green card and ina total 10 years become US citizens - all this while they have to spend 6-9 months each year inside US to be eligible. If they wantr to work all over the world as globally attuned execs/expats/workers - they have to wait for 10 years - I wonder how Prof. Reimers and his wife Prof. Velligas-Reimers managed that - after they both came yto Harvard from venezuela. I remember Prof Fernando Reimers spent more than two years in Pakistan while working for HIID (Harvard Inst. of Intl. Dev) . His wife I think worked all this while in US for Wheelock College perhaps on work visa. I had hoped to evade this search for H-1B and Green Card - by coming to DC and straightaway getting a global career with World Bank or getting a foreign posting (as expat) in some third country with some Itnl NGO - but that seems like a futile search - with about 300 applicants for every job which is advertised - even in farthest NGOS like Norvegian Refugee Council -which gave me these fugures for an Afghanistan based post. Tucker said that same about his experience inside US. Most applicants from rich countries already have had experience of working at a variety of international locations in developing countires -which perhaps more than offsets my Harvard degree and India specific experience. Thus, I am now trying this more rugged and circuitous route of working in US -even though I have always been keenly interestd in comparing Indian and US edu systems -which I had mentioned in my SOP for Harvard admission. Working with school kids in US has been a challenging [esp. culturally] which I feel most US/West based teachers /volunteers in other countires may not be facing in poor countries [except for language tough I did face accent problem sometims still do] . Though I spend only 3 hours per day at work [plus 3 more commuting] it is very exhaisting and I feel I need to continue this half load till I am acclimatized. Coming back to the relationhip question I had been wondering when we would meet gain [though internet has improved communication and eeling of being near dramatically]. Last week I was victim of a lottery hoax [by email] and I visulaized that I would visit you in Korea - while going for a brief visit to India . Many Indians change planes in Seoul on their flights to West coast
[Assam] A new website launched on Majuli
Friends, A new website launched on Majuli by members of silchartoday.com. Visit www.majuli.info and know this island. Majuli, the largest river island in the world Pradip Kumar Datta Admin (Majuli.info) Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] Office of Profit
I was wondering what "office of profit" meant and how it was illegal for an MP to hold an office of profit. Finally I saw this article in the Assam Tribune that explained some of it. I'd think there are others who also are confused and they may find the article useful. Dilip Office of profit Sonia Gandhi has done it again. Ending all speculation about her disqualification from membership of the Lok-Sabha for holding on office of profit as chairperson of the National Advisory Council and anguished over attempts by some persons to create an atmosphere that the government and the Parliament were being used for her benefit, she has resigned from Lok-Sabha and also from the chairpersonship of the National Advisory Council. Her resignation has been hailed by the Congress Party as the vindication of high moral principle maintained by Smt Gandhi in the political arena. Following the disqualification of Jaya Bachchan from Rajya Sabha, political parties across the board are demanding disqualification of rival MPs for holding offices of profit. The disqualification case of Amar Singh, Samajwadi Party leader is at present under hearing at the Election Commission on the ground of his holding office of profit as chairman of the UP Development Council. The Samajwadi Party has petitioned disqualification of Kapila Vatsayan from Rajya Sabha for holding office of profit as chairperson of Indira Gandhi National Centre for Art and Culture, besides leading its loudest voice to the chorus against Sonia Gandhi. The Trinamool Congress has levelled allegation against 10 MPs of the Left Front including the Speaker Somnath Chatterjee of holding offices of profit and has demanded their disqualification. The Telegu Desam Party wants Union Minister T Sabbi Rami Reddy to go for occupying the office of chairman of Trinamool Tirupathi Devasthanam Board and disqualification of Dr Karan Singh for holding the office of Indian Council for Cultural Relations. Dr Karan Singh, Kapila Vatsayana have followed the leader and resigned from Rajya Sabha. It appears, there are as many as 40 MPs who are holding offices of profit and face the threat of disqualification including the 10 MPs of the Left Front. Even the BJP MP V K Malhotra is accused of holding office of profit as chairman of the Sports Authority of India. In this context, Samajwadi leader and Rajya Sabha MP Amar Singhs comment that at this rate, there would be no one left in Parliament bears significance.The office of profit has not been defined in the Constitution of India. Article 102 of the Constitution of India disqualities a member of either House of Parliament, for holding office of profit under the Government of India or the government of any State except those offices declared by Parliament by law not to disquality its holder. Parliament enacted Parliament (Prevention of Disqualification) Act, 1959 giving a list of offices, holders of which are exempted from disqualification. The Act has not been amended to include new offices created by the Central and the State governments over the years putting the MPs holding such offices liable for disqualification under Article 102. The object behind this Article is that a person who is elected to the legislature should be free to carry on his duties fearlessly without being subjected to any pressure by the government. There should not be a conflict between his duties as member of the legislature and his employment so that purity of the legislature is unaffected. In the absence of a clear-cut definition of the office of profit, there is a grey area for which Jaya Bachchan has approached the Supreme Court to classify the term office of profit in the Constitution.In the long history of the Parliament, only two MPs have been disqualified for holding office of profit. Before Jaya Bachchan, an ADMK MP R Mohanarangan was disqualified for holding the office of the Special Representative of the Tamil Nadu government in 1982. By disqualifying Jaya Bachchan, the Election Commission poked its hands in a nest of hornets. Besides the complaint against the MPs, a large number of complaint against MLAs have also reached the Election Commission demanding their disqualification for holding offices of profit. The UPA governments handling of this controversy shows indecision and haste. It hastily adjourned both the Houses sine-die with a view to promulgate an ordinance to save Sonia Gandhi from disqualification. Such a move would have degraded Sonia Gandhi from the high moral ground she acquired after declining the Prime Ministership in May, 2004, to an ordinary politician seeking power and position. After her resignation, the urgency of an Ordinance no longer exists. The UPA government should now re-convene both Houses of Parliament, bring forward an amendment to the Parliament (Prevention of Disqualification Act), 1959 removing the deficiencies in the Act so that the la
Re: [Assam] The jewel in the Assam politician's cr own -The Statesman
Title: Re: [Assam] The jewel in the Assam politician's cr own -Th >They have the choice of NOT voting such people into power. *** Brilliant Ram :-)! But I don't believe you are as naive as you make yourself appear to be in this prescription. I am quite sure you know the right answer, but to touch that would be sinning against your icon/s . Therefore you took the easier path of joining the 'gaon-burha' crowd . Tsk, tsk :-)! c-da At 8:42 AM -0600 3/25/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: C'da, >WHAT are the CHOICES that the voters get? They have the choice of NOT voting such people into power. The media can publish the names and the amount of wealth these politicians have acquired and educate the voters where they stand. The public can also demand (the AASU for example) that thorough investigations be conducted on these politicians. The AASU is powerful enough to bring Assam to a standstill, why are such issues ignored. They have taken other issues and got results, what about something like this? >When you can have control over that, THEN you can complain. But >otherwise you are no different from the clueless voters you so talk >down to! If people point out things that are way wrong, they are accused of 'looking down'. It is only assuming that the voter is helpless, are we saying things like 'Upai nai' or 'kopalot likha ase'. --Ram On 3/24/06, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: WHAT are the CHOICES that the voters get? When you can have control over that, THEN you can complain. But otherwise you are no different from the clueless voters you so talk down to! At 7:40 PM -0600 3/24/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote: "If an average candidate's wealth is calculated at Rs 10.12 lakh, his wife is presented as being in possession of some Rs 27 lakh. " - The Statesman And yet, the voting public is extremely happy to re-elect these scoundrels every election cycle. ___ The jewel in the Assam politician's crown Statesman News Service GUWAHATI, March 24. - Assam is considered a poor state but its politicians live lavishly - apparently because they are married to wealth. These super-rich wives, not required to work for a living, are the stay-at-home type, deigning sometimes to be associated with voluntary organisations. Or, that is the impression which is being sought to be created. If their husbands have power, they have money; oodles of it, going by affidavits submitted to the Election Commission by the more than 500 candidates in the first phase of the forthcoming Assembly polls. Mandatory declarations indicate that the combined assets of the candidates' wives would be worth Rs 266 crore. The candidates' wealth adds up to a mere Rs 82 crore. And Mr Badarudin Ajmal, perfume mogul who is also the president of the Assam United Democratic Front (AUDF), alone accounts for Rs 16 crore of it. The candidates claim to have an average of Rs 3 lakh in cash to fight the elections but their wives are said to possess between Rs 6.3 lakh and Rs 43 lakh, apart from jewellery and other assets. If an average candidate's wealth is calculated at Rs 10.12 lakh, his wife is presented as being in possession of some Rs 27 lakh. The candidates' ornaments total Rs 3.10 crore in value; their wives', Rs 35 crore. Most candidates have declared that their wives own houses and land in many places. ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
[Assam] New website launched on Majuli (www.majuli.info)
Friends, A new website launched on Majuli by members of silchartoday.com. Visit www.majuli.info and know this island. Majuli, the largest river island in the world Pradip Kumar Datta Admin (Majuli.info) Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
