[Assam] jonbeel fair

[xourov pathok]

http://in.news.yahoo.com/indiaabroad/20080119/r_t_ians_nl_general/tnl-an-assamese-tribal-fair-where-curren-b9e311f.html
An Assamese tribal fair where currency is taboo








Sat, Jan 19 12:21 PM
Jonbeel
(Assam), Jan 19 (IANS) It's like a gala carnival with thousands of
people shopping amid the cacophony of pop music - the only difference
is that currency is forbidden in this exotic fair in India's
northeastern state of Assam.


More than 10,000 tribal villagers
from distant locations have gathered at a sprawling meadow at a
roadside village in Jonbeel, about 60 km east of Assam's main city of
Guwahati, for the three-day fair that ends Saturday.


>From rice to
turmeric, wild potatoes, fish and fowl to fruits, villagers in their
traditional costumes have set up makeshift stalls in this unique annual
bazaar.


'The most interesting aspect of this three-day fair is
that people practice the age-old barter system. Cash transactions here
are considered a crime,' Dipsing Deo Raja, the 15-year-old king of the
Tiwa tribe in Assam, told IANS.


Dipsing, perhaps the world's youngest living king, inaugurated the fair 
Thursday by invoking Agni, the Hindu god of fire.


'It
is a sight to watch, with people from far flung areas coming to
participate at the fair carrying items ranging from rice to dry fish,
bamboo shoots to poultry,' the king, a class nine student at an English
medium school in the neighbouring Meghalaya state, said.
'They do
their business like any other trader and at the end of the fair return
to their villages happy and satisfied although there is no question of
profit and loss,' he added.


Hopsin Bey, a Karbi tribal farmer, trekked through dense forests for about 
eight hours to reach Jonbeel.
'I
and my wife came with some turmeric, garlic, and sticky rice. In matter
of hours we traded our items in exchange for some sugar, salt, and dry
fish,' Bey said.


His wife Pramilla said the fair acts as a meeting ground for scores of ethnic 
groups.


'It is pure fun here as we meet people from various other tribes,' she said.


Like the Bey's, there are many families who visit the annual Jonbeel fair 
regularly.


'Me
and my family have come here from a very distant village only to see
the boy king and pay our obeisance to him,' Timola Amsih, an elderly
Tiwa tribal woman, said.


For the hundreds of people who come down
from the hills and dales to participate in the fair, it is like
festival time - they set up makeshift bamboo and thatch huts for the
three days and eat together in groups.


'This fair is a part of
the tribal tradition here and has been going on for ages. There is no
recorded history as to when the Jonbeel fair first began,' N.
Barbaruah, a Tiwa tribal elder, said.


'It is our endeavour to
keep alive this ancient annual barter fair. The day this fair is
stopped means the end of tribal culture and our roots.'







  

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[Assam] assamese bashing

[xourov pathok]

santanu roy wrote:
>  Political assertion by the community therefore threatens many. There is
>  an aspect of yet another assertive group adding to the ethnic
>  fragmentation and potential conflict in Assam - always unnerving to the
>  nationalist Assamese cause.santanu-da,

i am surprised that you feel the ethnic fragmentation and the potential
conflict can be unnerving only to the assamese nationalists and not to the
others.

but first, a few comments on the assamese bashing.  i would let it
pass, but it really has a bearing on the issue.

when a mob set on the arsonists at beltola, and did what only a mob
does so well, the responsibility was laid at the feet of the assamese---
by insinuation, and sometimes quite explicitly.  so now, it seems,
the assamese are not only responsible for the beltola incident, 
the general plight of the tea laborers but also for opposing the 
santhali demands for st status.

nothing can be more perverse that this.  for one, it adds to the ethnic
fragmentation and conflict.  it is also historically inaccurate.
the people of assam were not responsible for bringing in the santhalis 
to work in the tea gardens.  they too were victims of the same
process.  the segregation of the tea laborers from the rest 
of the community, which you mention, benefits the tea industry, 
with its capital in kolkata, and with which the assamese have very 
little to do.

what you seem to ignore is that the ethnic fragmentation is caused
by the very model of ethnic development (st status in this case),
which has been foisted on us.  the bodos and other groups that
already enjoy the benefits of this status, are opposing it.  what 
sanjib-da does in his article is bring this very model into question,
but it seems you are more comfortable in discussion this in the
context of assamese nationalism.  unfortunately, it does nothing
but hide the real issues.

x





  

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[Assam] (no subject)

[xourov pathok]

>  http://www.telegraphindia.com/1071211/asp/opinion/story_8654412.asp

>  The Telegraph, Calcutta. Tuesday, December 11, 2007

>  READING THE TEA LEAVES
>  - The understanding of tribal status must be rid of colonial errors

>  SANJIB BARUAH

thank you, sanjib-da, for this article.
i found it almost lyrical.  

x





  

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[Assam] adivasi-santals

[xourov pathok]

Mohan Rao Palleti said:


> I seriously think that the Assam government should provide them with a

> assamese status and no longer call them adivasis. Adivasi means

> aborigines. They may have been aborigines from another state with a

> distinct culture.


you are probably unaware that the assam government cannot profer the status of 
assamese on the santals.  or anyone for that matter.  as far as i am aware, the 
many definitions of assamese that go around these days do not exclude them.

also, traditionally, they are called chaotals (santals), and in assamese 
literature they are celebrated for their straightforwardness and militancy: 
"chaotal maradar dhanur kar jen lakhyabhedi eku ekuta xobdo mur" -- hiren 
bhattacharya.  the same militancy is now on display.  and adivasi is not an 
appellation  imposed on them, but something which some of them themselves 
prefer (aasaa -- all adivasi students association of assam).

x



  

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[Assam] (no subject)

[xourov pathok]

Krishnendu Chakraborty wrote: 

> You said it all Alpana'ba  it is a shame ...

> period.



> People seem to be beating around the bushes blaming

> media rather then  the real villains

and 

> 1.  From the outrage we are seeing here,  people are
> more concerned at Assam's Image NOT at modesty of the

> woman (refer postings of BD, JS).

 > First, please clarify the reason of this outrage


you seem to be conflating a number of issues together.  people are not as much 
concerned with assam's image as with the deteriorating inter-ethnic situation.  
the sensational picture of the woman without clothes reached the national media 
rather late, when it was no longer news.  instead of helping people resolve the 
problems, the media inflamed the situation further.  yes, people have a right 
to know.  we would like to know a lot about what went wrong that day.  what is 
being done to ameliorate the pain of the victims, compensate them for their 
loss and what punitive measures are taken.  but the picture, instead of saying 
a thousand words, did just the opposite by pushing back these issues.  

assam has a sensitive ethnic equation.  the locals understand this, and 
generally don't instigate each other needlessly.  i have talked to people in 
assam who are working to prevent further trouble, and they are utterly 
frustrated with some journalists, especially from outside the state.  the 
resulting ethnic strife will touch not just the city-based assamese and the 
chaotals, but would involve everyone else.  the bengalis, the bodos, the 
rajbanshis.  i have been told that the rangapara clashes, that occurred after 
the pictures were published, involved bengalis.

so, use your outrage judiciously lest it leads to further trouble.

x




  

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[Assam] gujarat 2002 --- tehelka sting operation

[xourov pathok]

http://www.tehelka.com/story_main35.asp?filename=Ne031107gujrat_sec.asp

saja has started a discussion page on the ethics of such sting operations, in 
the context of government complicity in such crimes.

http://www.sajaforum.org/2007/10/tehelkas-sting.html


On October 25, Tehelka, an Indian investigative magazine, published a special 
feature
devoted to the Hindu-Muslim riots* that took place in Gujarat in 2002,
and the state government's active role in fomenting the violence
against Muslims. It refers to the gruesome events, which some have
labeled genocide, as “the most important story of our time," and in the
last week it has in fact generated headlines in India and abroad (see
links to coverage at the bottom). However, while the magazine’s editors
boldly defend their sting journalism, some question the ethics of such
reporting.



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[Assam] What noooo is it India ?

[xourov pathok]

+  Check this ---
+  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Homeless_in_LA.jpg

+  I am almost convinced this is a picture of India
+  wrongly labelled.

+  Afterall,  when Citizens of US  are more busy
+  discussing  issues of India, I am sure all issues of
+  US have already been resolved :) 


homelessness is widespread in the us.  not because 
people are cruel, but because of scant social security.
people from countries like canada, and especially from
the scandinavian countries, are often aghast at some
of these situations they see in the us.  i think i can
understand your reasons for pointing your fingers at
the us. 

nevertheless, people react in a very different way to 
poverty and homelessness in the usa than they do in 
india.  here is a story.
http://www.knbc.com/news/13242136/detail.html
many elements in the story would appear very
strange from an indian point of view.  

here is the homeless man caught by google maps.
http://tinyurl.com/yu94bb

x




   

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[Assam] updating national register of citizens

[xourov pathok]

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070925/asp/frontpage/story_8357199.asp

Assam clears NRC hurdle
A STAFF REPORTER

Guwahati, Sept. 24: The Tarun Gogoi government today
cleared the first hurdle for updating the National
Register of Citizens with the group of ministers
constituted for the purpose finalising the modalities
for the process.

The panel, led by Assam Accord implementation minister
Bhumidhar Barman, decided that the NRC of 1950 and
voters’ list of 1971 would be the basis for the
updating process.

One of the ministers in the panel said later that only
Delhi was empowered to prepare the NRC in accordance
with the Citizenship Act of 1955. “The state
government is not authorised to prepare the NRC unless
powers are delegated to it,” he added.

When the Gogoi government requested Delhi to make an
exception, it was asked to first finalise the
modalities. If Delhi finally gives the green signal,
the register will be updated with March 25, 1971, as
the cut-off date.

Apart from Barman, the members of the group
constituted to work out the modalities are planning
and labour minister Prithibi Majhi, parliamentary
affairs minister Bharat Chandra Narah, minority
affairs minister Nazrul Islam and health and family
welfare minister Himanta Biswa Sarma.

Copies of the NRC of 1950 and voters’ lists would be
distributed in every ward of the state for
house-to-house enumeration. Barman said today’s
meeting decided to convene an all-party meeting on
September 28.


   

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[Assam] ananya assam

[xourov pathok]

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070913/asp/northeast/story_8308305.asp

A little trivia, a lot of inspiration
- NGO compiles encyclopaedia that will contain
information about all Assamese villages
UMANAND JAISWAL
Back to the roots

Guwahati, Sept. 12: It’s not just nostalgia. It’s not
even a sense of having “come a long way”, which he
literally has.

For the head of mathematics department of Rhode Island
University, it is a crushing desire to tell his
American colleagues and his Indian friends what it was
like to lie on his back outside his hut and watch the
stars.

To study in a school that did not even have walls. To
smell the pitha on Bihu.

If everything works as planned, Prof. Dilip Dutta may
soon be able to fish out an encyclopaedia from his
bookrack and show what his little village in Assam was
like — complete with its smell, colour, customs and
rituals.

Aitihasik Samol Sangrah Abhayak Mancha, an NGO, is
compiling an encyclopaedia that will contain
information about all the villages of Assam — an
effort which is being billed as the first of its kind
in the world. In fact, the acronym — ASSAM — sums up
the spirit and ambition of the project.

Named the Anonya Asom (Unique Assam), the project will
prepare a data bank of Assam’s villages with their
social, cultural, economic and historical profiles.

“Everything started from villages and even the big
towns and cities were once rural habitations. Each and
everyone has some connection with one village or the
other,” said K.K. Bhuyan, chief convenor of the
project.

The project will take off with an essay competition
where participants will be asked to write about
his/her village with all possible information. Three
of the best essays will be awarded cash prizes of Rs
10,000, Rs 7,000 and Rs 5,000.

According to the 2001 census, there are 26,247
villages in Assam, but the research and the essay
contest will hopefully take this data beyond numbers.

After the first phase of research, the organisation
will be assisted by universities and the state
government as well as organisations like the Asam
Sahitya Sabha and All Assam Students’ Union, in
compilation.

An expert associated with the Asam Sahitya Sabha said
the number of illustrious Assamese who had a rural
background, “is very long”.

“Life in a village has shaped many a personality and
the effort to make a data base of villages is a
wonderful idea,” he added.

Take Numal Chandra Borah, for instance. The
chairman-cum-managing director of GNRC ploughed fields
and sold betel leaves and nuts to support his family
while in school at Bubia village in Sonitpur district.

“The database could be used for future reference not
only for social scientists but also for the government
and corporate houses,” said Bhuyan.

“Assam lives in its villages but there is no
documentation about the character of a village barring
the number of villages or estimated population. The
project will help people understand their village folk
better and also make them aware about their social,
educational and other development index. It is going
to be a virtual treasure trove.”


   

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Re: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom?

[xourov pathok]

--- SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi Xourov,
> 
> Thanks for your email. Your observation about the
> neutrality of a language is very much in coherence
> with today's needs. For eg. most of us here are
> equally at home with Hindi & English in addition to
> our mother tongues (Oxomiya, Bodo, Bangla etc.)
> 
> Its time the others took notice too :-).
> 

let sleeping dogs lie.  the problems in assam are no
longer tied to language.

imposing languages on peoples are never a good idea.
bengali was imposed on the assamese in the 19th 
century. assamese was imposed in the entire assam in 
20th century, partly as a revenge.  nothing good came 
off either of them.  in the 21st century we should 
keep away from prescribing languages for peoples.

it might be best to let people use the language they 
prefer.  instead of making rules and laws, peoples and

governments should use the language that is the most
convenient.

as for the mother tongues, it is probably best to let
people expand and stretch their own languages at will.
 
the bodos, the karbis and the dimasas should take 
their languages where they never were before.  and 
they should share it with others.  the sylhetis
in barak valley should be able to discover and enrich
their own siloti, and in their own newly discovered 
siloti-nagari hand.

the problems today have nothing to do with language.
it has been fashionable to blame the "assamese" for 
all ills in the region.  look at manipur-nagaland.  
assam-nagaland.  look at hiren gohain's article.

rajiv gandhi famously said that only 15% of government

spending reach the common man.  do you have a plan to 
curb the struggle for an access to the remaining 85%? 

in the times of terrible unemployment, do you have a 
plan to stop the struggle for government jobs via 
sc/st status?

blaming language today is living in the past.

x


  

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[Assam] hiren gohain on the assam-nagaland border issue

[xourov pathok]

>From EPW, Aug 11, 2007 issue.

http://epw.org.in/uploads/articles/10903.pdf

x


   

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gohain2007-epw-violent-borders.pdf
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Re: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom?

[xourov pathok]

--- SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> What you wrote is quite true..but I have heard now
> that in many districts since they have the numbers,
> they are registering as Bengali again.
> 
> So now what?

hi sandip, thanks for your reply.  it is actually the
same old, same old.  and please accept my apologies
for a delayed reply.  

the assamese language did not spread via a hegemony of
the assamese people.  it spread mainly via the market
place.  and without even the "assamese" people
knowing, people were talking in one version or the
other in nagaland (nagamese) and arunachal pradesh
(arunamese).  arunamese is gone, replaced by hindi. 
nagamese is not replaced by hindi yet.  

from anecdotal evidence, a bengali tailor and a bihari
laborer in the streets of guwahati still talk with
each other in assamese.  assamese is neither the
language of the bengali nor the language of the
bihari.  it is a neutral language.  and that is
precisely how the language spread for the last few
hundred years.  the language survives today mainly
because it is still a language of the market place. 
not because of its literary output or anything.  ask
any assamese writer.  he will tell you he is lucky if
he sells a few thousand copies of his novel or poems. 
ask assamese film producers.  hardly anyone went out
to watch assamese movies.  even before the ulfa ban.

and when the language became a language championed by
some who tried to force it into schools and offices,
it lost its neutral tag.  and since then there has
been problems.  without a doubt, the assamese will
never force their language into anyone's living room.

but maybe, maybe, if more assamese poems are written
of a future with room for lovers and romantics---who
knows, the language might reach their bedrooms...

x

> 
> Rgds,
> Sandip
> 
> 
> - Original Message 
> From: xourov pathok <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Roy, Santanu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
> assam@assamnet.org; Dilip/Dil Deka
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 5:27:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom?
> 
> 
> --- "Roy, Santanu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> > 
> > And then all this talk about Bangladeshi versus
> > Indian migration. If
> > Bongals had not filled up the land, 
> 
> bongals.
> 
> by using the word bongals, i guess you are referring
> to the anti-bengali feelings in assam.  you might
> recall that that word has a history.  in days past,
> before the british came along, bongal was used to
> refer to foreigners. specifically, the turk and
> afghan
> rulers of bengal.  
> 
> then, after the demise of the ahom kingdom, the
> bengali babus, mostly hindus, came along and became
> the symbol of colonialism.  they too were called
> bongals, maybe to anoint them with the same
> abhorence
> of earlier times.  it was not the ahom rulers who
> used
> the word this time though. a different set of
> people---the newly emerging assamese middle class
> aspiring the jobs held by the bengali babus---used
> the
> word.  
> 
> but the bengali babus had come to assam much earlier
> than the muslim peasants.  and skipping much of
> history, we can say that the word bongal never much
> caught on for the muslim peasants.  i believe mainly
> because the assamese middle class did not quite
> aspire
> for the muslim peasants' job. 
> 
> social history is complex.  the muslim peasants
> mentioned assamese as their mother tongue in the
> census.  at least some of them.  and guess what,
> some
> of them have gone ahead formed the asam chor-chapori
> sahitya sabha.  if you have watched "angst at large"
> by shankar barua, he talks to a young assamese (a
> sarma, who i have met in delhi) who calls them
> na-asamiya.  by all indications, some of them have
> indeed taken to assamese.  whereas the assamese send
> their children to english schools today, some of
> these
> muslim peasants send their children to assamese
> schools.
> 
> this is also something i want the people to talk
> about, beyond the usual rhetoric.
> 
> some more later :-)
> 
> cheers,
> x
> 
> 
> > Counterfactual history is always dangerous. But
> > think about it for a
> > moment. If walls of fire were erected to prevent
> > people from coming to
> > Assam from East Pakistan and Bangladesh in 1947,
> the
> > Indian constitution
> > would not have defended the state from potential
> > migration that the
> > economic mechanism would have engineered instead
> > from mainland India.
> > The pace would be different. The fact that the
> poor
> > arid regions of
> > central and ea

Re: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom?

[xourov pathok]

--- "Roy, Santanu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Because it provokes stuff - such as this little
> exchange of ours. 

i can see that you would like to use "bongal" in the
same way as the word "desi" is used in north america.

first, bongal has a connotation.  just like the word
"paki" has in uk.  it could be offensive to some. 
second, the legitimization has to come from those who
would like to be called bongals.  this becomes a
problem when extended to the muslim immigrant
peasants.  many of them had clearly made a break from
the hindu bengalis.  but ultimately, it depends upon
them.

x  





> Best -
> Santanu-da. 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: xourov pathok [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 10:21 AM
> To: Roy, Santanu; assam@assamnet.org; Dilip/Dil Deka
> Subject: RE: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom?
> 
> 
> if they are evolving into something new, why use an
> old and loaded term?
> 
> X
> 



   

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Re: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom? Reply to Xourov I.

[xourov pathok]

--- "Roy, Santanu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The term colonialism is very frequently used to
> describe the root of all
> evils so much so that it has lost much of its
> meaning to me. The
> colonial state in India was not an unknown monster -
> it was a fairly
> well ordered set of people with definite objectives
> - many of which were
> economic.
> 

no santanu-da, i wasn't blaming colonialism.  i was
pointing out that you cannot use "economic
opportunity" as a value neutral "cause" for
bangladeshi peasant immigration (i said economic
opportunity is not as innocent as it sounds). i
mentioned the reasons in that post.


> The economic differentials and conditions that
> attracted migration to
> Assam are also, in my view, the very same ones that
> prompted the
> colonial state to facilitate and promote such
> migration. 

the primary reason the colonial state promoted
migration was revenue.  this was not what caused the
migration, directly.  but i wouldn't like to take this
discussion further in this direction.  i think i will
leave for later the discussion on whether assam's
peasants of 1826 had it coming. 

the main reason why i am still at it is the overdose
of rhetoric on the bangladeshi immigration issue
today.  from both sides.  by those who condemn the
"bangladeshi immigration", missing out the details,
and also by those who characterize any critical
discussion as xenophobic or chauvinistic.  rhetoric
inflames and provides no solution.

cheers,
x

 
> 
> This is not an accident. In most situations where
> economic surplus can
> be created for individual agents by choosing certain
> actions - the
> political and social institutions eventually
> recognize and facilitate it
> - the agents that control and design such
> institutions stand to
> privately and collectively gain from it. 
> 
> Thus, the 19th century changes in the property
> rights structure, the
> alienation of collective property rights, the
> changes in the revenue
> collection mechanism - all of this created basic
> conditions for
> realization of the gains from migration - but this
> was the intention all
> along. Institutions are not givens. They respond to
> economic incentives.
> 
> 
> [In my view (and this is debatable), even a
> sovereign national
> government of Assam would have instituted most of
> these changes, allowed
> some of the migration for purely Leviathan reasons.]
> 
> If the 1901 census superintend lamented the lack of
> migration, he was
> probably expressing the frustrations of the colonial
> state that not
> sufficient amount of institutional change had
> occurred to attract the
> migration they were praying for. 
> 
> It is not sufficient to look at institutions as they
> came were, one has
> to ask why they came to be the way they were, what
> incentives played
> their roles.
> 
> I, of course, totally agree with you that the
> changes that facilitated
> migration were directly and particularly harmful to
> the indigenous
> peasants - they lost their historical assets and
> rights. There is
> absolutely no doubt about this. It is a general fact
> that all migration
> must hurt those the migrants compete with. It hurts
> even now by driving
> up the market price of land and inputs.   
> 
> I also agree that migration creates opportunities
> for further migration
> and the network effect is very strong. 
> 
> I will write separately to respond to your comments
> about the losers not
> having a voice, what can be done and the need for
> transparency. 
> 
> So much for now. Take care -
> 
> Santanu-da. 
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: xourov pathok [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Sent: Monday, July 30, 2007 7:11 AM
> To: Roy, Santanu; assam@assamnet.org; Dilip/Dil Deka
> Subject: RE: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom?
> 
>  
> 
> santanu-da,
> 
>  
> 
> thank you for your response.  it is good to hear
> from
> 
> you.  i am afraid this might get a little long.  but
> 
> do give it a read and i look forward to your
> comments.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> --- "Roy, Santanu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>  
> 
> > 
> 
> > The flow of human beings from the plains of Bengal
> 
> > (including
> 
> > Bangladesh) to Assam is and has always been driven
> 
> > by differences in
> 
> > economic opportunities except possibly the middle
> 
> > class Hindus who moved
> 
> > after 1947. 
> 
> > 
> 
> > [Even in the latter case, it is not clear that all

Re: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom?

[xourov pathok]

--- "Roy, Santanu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


> 
> And then all this talk about Bangladeshi versus
> Indian migration. If
> Bongals had not filled up the land, 

bongals.

by using the word bongals, i guess you are referring
to the anti-bengali feelings in assam.  you might
recall that that word has a history.  in days past,
before the british came along, bongal was used to
refer to foreigners. specifically, the turk and afghan
rulers of bengal.  

then, after the demise of the ahom kingdom, the
bengali babus, mostly hindus, came along and became
the symbol of colonialism.  they too were called
bongals, maybe to anoint them with the same abhorence
of earlier times.  it was not the ahom rulers who used
the word this time though. a different set of
people---the newly emerging assamese middle class
aspiring the jobs held by the bengali babus---used the
word.  

but the bengali babus had come to assam much earlier
than the muslim peasants.  and skipping much of
history, we can say that the word bongal never much
caught on for the muslim peasants.  i believe mainly
because the assamese middle class did not quite aspire
for the muslim peasants' job. 

social history is complex.  the muslim peasants
mentioned assamese as their mother tongue in the
census.  at least some of them.  and guess what, some
of them have gone ahead formed the asam chor-chapori
sahitya sabha.  if you have watched "angst at large"
by shankar barua, he talks to a young assamese (a
sarma, who i have met in delhi) who calls them
na-asamiya.  by all indications, some of them have
indeed taken to assamese.  whereas the assamese send
their children to english schools today, some of these
muslim peasants send their children to assamese
schools.

this is also something i want the people to talk
about, beyond the usual rhetoric.

some more later :-)

cheers,
x


> Counterfactual history is always dangerous. But
> think about it for a
> moment. If walls of fire were erected to prevent
> people from coming to
> Assam from East Pakistan and Bangladesh in 1947, the
> Indian constitution
> would not have defended the state from potential
> migration that the
> economic mechanism would have engineered instead
> from mainland India.
> The pace would be different. The fact that the poor
> arid regions of
> central and eastern India do not have the skills to
> exploit wet areas
> would have been a factor. In the long run, however,
> the socio-economic
> picture would probably not be very different. The
> faces would have
> looked different. Less of lungis, less Bengali, more
> Hindi, more Hindu
> possibly.   



  



> 
> Then, what remains of the 1979 agitation? Perhaps,
> an awareness of the
> reality that just won't go away. A gnawing feeling
> in the indigenous
> soul that something has changed, something has been
> lost - realized in
> hard facts. For the urban dwellers, the veils have
> been lifted. And as
> the last thirt years have taught, the change is
> irretrievable. The
> politics of camouflage has been replaced by the
> politics of ethnic
> polarization. The middle class has learnt that
> language. Even the
> oxomiya bhdralok has.  
> 
> Santanu. 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of xourov pathok
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 10:17 AM
> To: assam@assamnet.org; Dilip/Dil Deka
> Subject: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom?
> 
> > I can see you are trying to steer the discussion 
> > to the same issues that you are so fond of and 
> > have discussed here so many times - that India has
> > totally failed and Assam will be better off by
> > opting out of India.
> 
> dilip-da, that is c-da, not me.  could you show me
> where i have argued assam is better off opting out
> of
> india?  the possibility of that happening is too
> remote, imho, and there is not point in speculating
> on
> it.  it is not going to happen.  period.
> 
> i am trying to keep to the issue of immigration, and
> not going on a tangent on freedom.  independence.
> principles.  or thought experiments.  
> 
> i am trying to focus on the failure of the assam
> agitation and what it means for assam.  also, i am
> trying to focus on the mechanism how immigration is
> happening.  what sustains it.  etc.
> 
> >  On your email below - All of your allegations are
> >  valid, not always but in many instances. India is
> >  still experimenting with democracy 
>[snipped]
> 
> i am not interested in the discussion on indian
> democracy in the present context.  i am strongly
> interested in the issue of democracy, of course. 
> but
> that is an entirely different issue.
> 
> x
> 
> 
&

Re: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom?

[xourov pathok]

 when the suggestion is made that we need to look
at the networks on the indian side of the border it is
so out of the blue people say "oh, you are looking for
independence".  duh!  or in the spirit of things,
doh!!
 
> Migration should then cease after a period of time. 

from the look of it, this will not cease for a long
time.  the population density in bangladesh is in the
900s.  it is in the 300s in assam.  the situation in
bangladesh countryside can only deteriorate, with
decreasing land and increasing population, how long do
you think it will take to catch up with the
bangladeshi countryside?  

i think it is already getting too long.  i shall leave
the rest for later.

cheers,
x



 
> As for politicians encouraging migration and the
> existence of corruption
> in state agencies that legitimise illegal migration
> - these should seen
> as mere exploitation of the fact that migrants want
> to move in search of
> economic opportnuities. The migrant is willing to
> pay with money and
> vote for the right to live here - there is a market
> - the politicians
> and the bureaucrats will be suppliers in this
> market. Nothing that one
> can think of can prevent this. 
> 
> And then all this talk about Bangladeshi versus
> Indian migration. If
> Bongals had not filled up the land, the vacuum
> created by the wedge
> between per capita resource availability in Assam
> and rest of "Bharat"
> would have meant a huge migration of people from
> mainland India.
> Counterfactual history is always dangerous. But
> think about it for a
> moment. If walls of fire were erected to prevent
> people from coming to
> Assam from East Pakistan and Bangladesh in 1947, the
> Indian constitution
> would not have defended the state from potential
> migration that the
> economic mechanism would have engineered instead
> from mainland India.
> The pace would be different. The fact that the poor
> arid regions of
> central and eastern India do not have the skills to
> exploit wet areas
> would have been a factor. In the long run, however,
> the socio-economic
> picture would probably not be very different. The
> faces would have
> looked different. Less of lungis, less Bengali, more
> Hindi, more Hindu
> possibly.   
> 
> Then, what remains of the 1979 agitation? Perhaps,
> an awareness of the
> reality that just won't go away. A gnawing feeling
> in the indigenous
> soul that something has changed, something has been
> lost - realized in
> hard facts. For the urban dwellers, the veils have
> been lifted. And as
> the last thirt years have taught, the change is
> irretrievable. The
> politics of camouflage has been replaced by the
> politics of ethnic
> polarization. The middle class has learnt that
> language. Even the
> oxomiya bhdralok has.  
> 
> Santanu. 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of xourov pathok
> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 10:17 AM
> To: assam@assamnet.org; Dilip/Dil Deka
> Subject: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom?
> 
> > I can see you are trying to steer the discussion 
> > to the same issues that you are so fond of and 
> > have discussed here so many times - that India has
> > totally failed and Assam will be better off by
> > opting out of India.
> 
> dilip-da, that is c-da, not me.  could you show me
> where i have argued assam is better off opting out
> of
> india?  the possibility of that happening is too
> remote, imho, and there is not point in speculating
> on
> it.  it is not going to happen.  period.
> 
> i am trying to keep to the issue of immigration, and
> not going on a tangent on freedom.  independence.
> principles.  or thought experiments.  
> 
> i am trying to focus on the failure of the assam
> agitation and what it means for assam.  also, i am
> trying to focus on the mechanism how immigration is
> happening.  what sustains it.  etc.
> 
> >  On your email below - All of your allegations are
> >  valid, not always but in many instances. India is
> >  still experimenting with democracy 
>[snipped]
> 
> i am not interested in the discussion on indian
> democracy in the present context.  i am strongly
> interested in the issue of democracy, of course. 
> but
> that is an entirely different issue.
> 
> x
> 
> 
>
>

> 
> Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you
> sell. 
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Re: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom?

[xourov pathok]

--- "Alpana B. Sarangapani"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
  
> Yes, having a world without the international border
> would be great. A lot of problems in Assam itself
> would get solved automatically then.

alpana-baideu,

it looks like the international border is meaningless
already.  at least in assam.  the inner line, on the
other hand, is real.

x


   

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Re: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom?

[xourov pathok]

--- umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Xourov-da,
> 
> 
> It is vry easy to be utopian and talk about freedom
> to occupy any land and live there - how about
> letting anyone come and takeover your house, family
> etc - do you allow others that freedom? Freedom has
> to be within some rules or parameters. 

did i say that?  i think you need to ask dilip-da.

x



   

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[Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom?

[xourov pathok]

> I can see you are trying to steer the discussion 
> to the same issues that you are so fond of and 
> have discussed here so many times - that India has
> totally failed and Assam will be better off by
> opting out of India.

dilip-da, that is c-da, not me.  could you show me
where i have argued assam is better off opting out of
india?  the possibility of that happening is too
remote, imho, and there is not point in speculating on
it.  it is not going to happen.  period.

i am trying to keep to the issue of immigration, and
not going on a tangent on freedom.  independence.
principles.  or thought experiments.  

i am trying to focus on the failure of the assam
agitation and what it means for assam.  also, i am
trying to focus on the mechanism how immigration is
happening.  what sustains it.  etc.

>  On your email below - All of your allegations are
>  valid, not always but in many instances. India is
>  still experimenting with democracy 
   [snipped]

i am not interested in the discussion on indian
democracy in the present context.  i am strongly
interested in the issue of democracy, of course.  but
that is an entirely different issue.

x


   

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Re: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom?

[xourov pathok]

--- Dilip/Dil Deka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> The answer is in your own email - border districts
> and a full blown investigation. 

dilip-da, i cannot speak for you.

> The drive needs to
> be against the officials in the border districts who
> according to you issue fake papers. 
>   As for a long term solution to the problem of
> illegal Bangladeshi mass migration, there is none.
> Some reprieve could be gained if the political
> parties stop taking advantage of it and the locals
> stop providing means of livelihood to the
> immigrants. 

do you think this position has any feasibility?  that
we just ask the political parties to behave.  and they
will do so on their own volition?

let us face it.  there are many in assam who benefit
from these immigrations.  they get votes, or small
bribes.  or cheap labor.  

as i see it, the "assamese" have missed the boat. 
they tried negotiating with the government via the
assam agitation and they failed.  the next phase is
ethnic based, where the individual groups will protect
their small pockets or turfs.  the arunachalis, the
nagas and the bodos in assam.  and from the look of
it, they are probably not too keen on negotiating with
the government.  what this will lead to, i don't know.

>   Tell me why Assam did not see mass migration till
> the 1930's and that may explain many things.

the migration began in 1905, when the british settled
cultivators from mymensingh to increase
production---and colonial revenue.

from what i gather, the immigration is no longer from
mymensingh exclusively, and that there are, in fact,
many different kinds of immigrations.  they bring to
assam many different demographic characteristics. 
while some mix well with the locals, others don't.

there are many today who come as fishermen, who do not
settle but go back.  they are much better fishermen
than the local ones.

x 


   

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Re: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom?

[xourov pathok]

--- Dilip/Dil Deka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> " He asked what you will do about these people who
> will produce the papers and will be let go by the
> police." --
>   If you are talking about those who have  valid
> papers (I assume that's what you mean by "who will
> produce papers") to prove they have the right to
> remain in India, the police has to release them and
> let them resettle wherever they want to.

the principles are clear enough.  but what would you
do if the "valid" papers were obtained via bribes in
border districts?  you know how pervasive bribes are. 
would you press for a full blown investigation?  which
would be very costly involving many man-hours?  or
would you just let matters be, and let the police
release those under detention?

x


   

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Re: [Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom?

[xourov pathok]

--- Dilip/Dil Deka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Xourov,
>   Let's talk about before and after the
> international border disappears between India and
> Bangladesh.
>   Before:  Bangladeshis should have the freedom to
> live wherever they want in Bangladesh, not in India.
>   After: Bangladeshis should be able to live
> wherever they want in Bangladesh or India. If the
> concept of international borders disappears
> altogether and everyone is a citizen of the world,
> that freedom should extend even to Pakistan, China,
> USA or any other place.
>   Dilipda

c-da got my question.  what will you do if those who
were caught produce documents that show they are
citizens?  and the police is forced to release them?

btw, your thought experiment is nice.  the assam
agitation began in nov 1979.  the 30th anniversary is
a little more than 2 years away.  

what do you think?

x




> 
> xourov pathok <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   > Tasiruddin,
> 
> > We have not connected yet on the issue. By asking 
> > "Who is the Sentinel of Freedom?", I meant this --
> 
> > is ULFA the sentinel of Assam's freedom the way 
> > people of Assam want it or would you call the 
> > Sentinel and other popular newspapers like it the 
> > sentinels of the same kind of freedom?
> 
> > Sentinel in this context means sentry or guard.
> 
> > Freedom is as in freedom to speak, freedom to
> choose
> 
> > where to live, freedom to choose how to make a 
> > living, freedom as in religion and culture,
> freedom 
> > to vote etc. 
> 
> > What do you think?
> 
> what do you think of the freedom of the bangladeshis
> to speak, to choose where to live, how to make a
> living, religion, culture and the freedom to vote?
> 
> as you probably know, these people who have been
> caught have the papers. the police will be releasing
> them very soon.
> 
> what do you think, dilip-da?
> 
> x
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

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> the added security of spyware protection.
>
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[Assam] Who is the Sentinel of Freedom?

[xourov pathok]

> Tasiruddin,
  
> We have not connected yet on the issue. By asking 
> "Who is the Sentinel of Freedom?", I meant this -- 
> is ULFA the sentinel of Assam's freedom the way 
> people of Assam want it or would you call the 
> Sentinel and other popular newspapers like it the 
> sentinels of the same kind of freedom?
  
> Sentinel in this context means  sentry or guard.

> Freedom is as in freedom to speak, freedom to choose

> where to live, freedom to choose how to make a 
> living, freedom as in religion and culture, freedom 
> to vote etc. 
  
> What do you think?

what do you think of the freedom of the bangladeshis
to speak, to choose where to live, how to make a
living, religion, culture and the freedom to vote?

as you probably know, these people who have been
caught have the papers.   the police will be releasing
them very soon.

what do you think, dilip-da?

x




   

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[Assam] mainland vs northeast in delhi

[xourov pathok]

having been in delhi for sometime as a student, i see
it is getting worse.

x

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070712/asp/frontpage/story_8048182.asp

Right intentions, wrong message
- Delhi police accused of dividing India into
‘mainland’ & ‘Northeast’
NISHIT DHOLABHAI

New Delhi, July 11: Delhi police’s advisory to youths
from the Northeast studying in the capital is being
seen by most as segregating the region from the
so-called mainland.

The minister for development of the northeastern
region (DoNER), Mani Shankar Aiyar, had only recently
discouraged the use of this syntax. “There is no
mainland, you are the mainland,” he had told a
reporter in Shillong.

Aiyar was unavailable for comment on the booklet
released by Delhi police, but those who responded
seemed to cringe at the thought of someone advising
students from the region to change their food habits,
customs and manner of dressing to assimilate into the
“mainstream”.

Dipankar Gupta, professor of sociology at Jawaharlal
Nehru University, said the police’s advice not to
create a “ruckus in the neighbourhood” by cooking
“smelly dishes” and dress decently was gratuitous, to
say the least.

“The police come up with these advisories, but there
is no implementation. There should be a departmental
memo of some sort that if a person from the Northeast
is harmed, punishment will be stringent,” Gupta said.

Moses Kharbithi, who is doing his MPhil at JNU, said
the advisory was tantamount to undermining the ability
of Northeast students in New Delhi to assimilate. “I
wonder if they have given such booklets to students
from the South,” he said.

Kharbithi said the fact that the booklet was
well-intentioned could not mask the sense of
discrimination.

Asom Gana Parishad MP Arun Kumar Sarma and his
Congress colleague Kirip Chaliha said there was no
denying the need to spruce up security for students
from the region in view of some incidents in the
recent past. But commenting on food habits and
clothing was unfair, the duo said.

“How can one tell somebody what to eat and how to
dress?” Sarma asked.

Chaliha said he would take up the issue with the authorities.


   

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[Assam] Asomiya Jatiya Abhidhan

[xourov pathok]

http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/details.asp?id=jul0907/at08

Longest Assamese dictionary in the making
>From A Correspondent
 JORHAT, July 8 – A new Assamese dictionary – the 
‘longest in the language produced so far’ – will be 
available to users and learners if the grand project 
sees the light of the day. A team of lexicographers 
has been working with a feverish pitch at the 
Jorhat-based office of the Asom Jatiya Prakash, a 
publication house, with the avowed purpose to compile 
the most comprehensive, unilingual and encyclopaedic 
dictionary in the Assamese language.

The lexicon, with a mammoth stock of more than one 
lakh entries, is aimed at fulfilling the needs of 
users in the 21st century. The first edition of the 
dictionary is slated to come out on January 1, 2010. 
It may run into two volumes to cut down on the size.

The brainchild of a galaxy of noted intellectuals, the

concept of the Asomiya Jatiya Abhidhan was first 
developed at a workshop held here under the aegis of 
the Asom Jatiya Siksha Samanway Parishad on July 7, 
2002. Those who presented the guidelines as to how the

proposed work should be like included Dr Dilip Kumar 
Dutta, Dr Kabindra Nath Phukan, Dr Madan Mohan Sharma,

Dr Bhimkanta Barua, Dr Benu Gogoi and Dr Devabrata 
Sharma, who is now working as the chief editor of the 
Asomiya Jatiya Abhidhan.

“We shall borrow generously from all sources to 
prepare the lexicon which will not leave out any major

sub-languages spoken and written in the State,” Dr 
Sharma said. He pointed out that the words spoken in 
certain areas like Kamrup, Goalpara, Darrang and 
Nagaon and by specific groups like tea tribes and 
those residing in the char areas, which do not find 
mention in the conventional Assamese dictionaries, 
would be entered in the Asomiya Jatiya Abhidhan.

In addition to this, words originating from Arabic, 
Persian and Urdu languages as well as those derived 
from different religions and forms of art and culture 
will make up the dictionary. “We shall leave no stone 
unturned to chronicle the progress of the Assamese 
language during the last 1,000 years,” Dr Sharma, who 
is the Head of the Department of English of Jorhat 
College, stressed. He claimed that the Asomiya Jatiya 
Abhidhan would list all words prevalent during the 
times of Madhav Kandali, Ram Saraswati and Sankaradeva

and those with their etymology traced to the ethnic 
languages spoken in the north-eastern region and 
outside.

Words forming part of slang and other common lingo, 
too, will be adequately defined in the dictionary. To 
suit the needs of the techno-savvy user, names of all 
modern gadgets of communication, the terms of 
Information Technology and various streams of science 
and technology will be incorporated into the Asomiya 
Jatiya Abhidhan, the English teacher pointed out. In 
fact, noted scientist Dr Dinesh Chandra Goswami is 
contributing 12,000 entries relating to the latest 
terminology in science and technology to the 
dictionary, he added. In a word, nothing that has 
passed into common usage in the Assamese language will

be left out, Dr Sharma quipped.

Assamese once served as the major link language for 
all peoples in the North-east. The Asomiya Jatiya 
Abhidhan will hopefully lay the foundation of a 
greater and generous Assamese society and reinforce 
the position of Assamese as the principal language, 
which is now sadly spoken by only one-third of the 
population in the State itself, Dr Sharma maintained.

The chief editor of the Asomiya Jatiya Abhidhan said 
that a sum of Rs 12 lakh will be spent till the 
preparation of the manuscript.


   

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[Assam] Refinery pollution

[xourov pathok]

santanu roy said:

> From BBC:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6220892.stm

i was talking to someone in guwahati this weekend, and
he mentioned that some species of fish have
disappeared due to pollution.

x


  

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[Assam] AFSPA

[xourov pathok]

> If that is what the law is it does certainly sounds 
> very undemocratic. Why did they enact this kind of 
> law in the first place? 
> What were the oposition
> doing? And more importantly, how much opposition(or 
> support) did the MPs
> from Assam offer?

afspa ultimately owes its origin to a british colonial
law---the armed forces (special powers) ordinance,
1942.  its child, the assam disturbed areas act, 1955,
was enacted by the assam state assembly, against phizo
in nagaland---within 8 years of independence from
british rule.  compare the language from the two acts
in this graphic:
http://www.flonnet.com/fl2118/images/20040910005401400.jpg

the 1955 law was followed by the central act in 1958
and later extended to all states in the north-east,
1972.  in 1990, a similar law was passed for kashmir
(look at the graphic again).  

the above is paraphrased from m s prabhakar's article
http://www.flonnet.com/fl2118/stories/20040910006101200.htm.
he mentions that no one in assam protested the 1955
law since it affected a remote area.  since then, the
law has spread to many other areas, including all
places in assam.


> In any case, bad laws are bad laws - they ought to
go.

the news item looks as if afspa is on its way out. 
but look at some of the other reports:

"In a suggestion which may not be acceptable to many 
states, the Administrative Reforms Commission (ARC) on

Monday recommended sweeping powers to the Centre to 
deploy armed forces in states and favoured a new law 
governing "federal crimes" — like terrorism and human 
trafficking — which can be probed by CBI on its own."
(http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Centre_may_get_power_to_deploy_troops_in_states/articleshow/2148754.cms)

in other words, afspa will not die, but probably
spread to other states in some other form.  in central
india, you have the naxalite menace to take care of. 
i think an afpsa-like law for the entire country would
be acceptable to many, ram-da!  








 

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[Assam] history from below

[xourov pathok]

readers who have read howard zinn's "people's history
of usa" would have realized that history looks very
different from below.  here is a glimpse of history in
india from below.

http://www.flonnet.com/stories/20070629006501100.htm
History from below
IRFAN HABIB

some readers might also have been aware that william
dalrymple's "the last mughal" asserts that the 1857
ghaddar was a religious uprising.  but in habib's
article one finds evidence that though the uprising
were triggered by narrow personal incidences, they
soon found their places in a larger context.

one particularly interesting factoid was the
monotheistic argument put forth by the rebels.  they
claimed that both hinduism and islam were monotheistic
religions, (allah and adipurush), whereas the english
christians believed in the trinity.  

in just 90 years the division sharpened and continues
to get sharper today.  from the delhi urdu akhbar,
june 14, 1857:

“O my countrymen, Looking at the strategy and devious
cleverness of the English … and their overflowing
treasuries you may feel disheartened and doubt that
such a people could ever be overcome. But those who
are my Muslim brothers by faith, let them consider —
if they are anxious and concerned out of worldly
considerations — to look at their religious books,
such as the Qur’an, the Tafsir and Hadis, and those
who belong to the Hindu dharm , let them, by the light
of their gyan (wisdom) and dharm (faith), illumine
their hearts and first see that except the Adipurush,
the primaeval Deity, nothing is permanent.”

x




 

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[Assam] New Towns Around Guwahati and Medha Patkar

[xourov pathok]

Dilip-da,

You had written:

> The shallowness in the thought process of social 
> activist critic Medha Patkar 
> is so apparent in the paragraph, "Referring to the 
> proposed creation of three 
> more towns to expand the Guwahati metropolitan area,

> she said that shopping 
> malls and highways should not be the yardstick to 
> measure development. The 
> development approach should also take into 
> consideration the issues like how 
> many people are going to be displaced and how many 
> people are getting their 
> livelihood affected by such projects."
   
Why do you think this displays a shallowness of medha
Patkar's thought process?  Are you disputing her
contention that shopping malls are not good indicators
of development?

You probably know that this was made in the context
planned development programs in Assam and not just in
the context of the Guwahati Master plan.  The
experience with these projects have been that many
people were displaced, without adequate compensation. 
If a dam is constructed on the Pagladia river in
Kamrup, for instance, many Assamese farmers will be
displaced.

A resolution in the meeting is given below.  Do you
have any objections to it?
(http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/details.asp?id=jun2007/at05)

GUWAHATI, June 19 – Participants of the two-day
national dialogue on environment and sustainable
development that ended at the BKB Auditorium of
Gauhati University yesterday, resolved to reject all
development policies and programmes if free, prior and
informed consent to them is not obtained from the
indigenous peoples of the region.

x  



> Anyone who visited Guwahati in recent times knows
how 
> congested Guwahati has 
> become. Spreading the population to three more urban

> areas would surely improve 
> the quality of life. Shopping malls and highways are

> not the primary reasons 
> for the new plan, Guwahatians know well. As a part
of 
> the redistribution of 
> people and enterprise, if such facilities are
needed, 
> they will definitely 
> emerge as the secondary need.  
  
> Does Ms. Patkar know how to make an omelette without

> breaking an egg?



   

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[Assam] rare assamese words

[xourov pathok]

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1070608/asp/northeast/story_7891185.asp

For the right word in the right place
- Geologist-philologist compiles unique bilingual
thesaurus with rare Assamese entries
DAULAT RAHMAN

Guwahati, June 7: These are Assamese words that will
not turn up in a Google search. Nor can they be found
in any dictionary. So what do you do when you need one
of these? More so, when most of these have gone out of
circulation.

But there is hope. An Assamese wordsmith has come out
with a book — the result of 23 long years of
painstaking research — which lists all those rare
words in the Assamese language. And his canvas spans
all fields: from hunting and fishing, traditional
dress and jewellery, to punishments in medieval Assam,
ghosts and witches, et al.

To top it all, the researcher — Pranavjyoti Deka — has
also given English synonyms and meanings for all these
words.

“A Google search will throw up the meanings and
explanations of most words in most languages of the
world. But where do we look for the rarer Assamese
words? That was the basis of my work,” said Deka. “We
have also discovered words which are not even included
in dictionaries.”

Deka’s Jyoti Bilingual Thesaurus — which he claims is
the world’s first such effort — will hit the stands
very soon. The book has been published by Kitab Bhaban
Publications.

Deka explained that after the rapid urbanisation of
Assamese society from the 1960s and gradual
mechanisation of agriculture, weaving and the
transport system, there have been radical changes in
the lexicographic requirements of the Assamese
language. This has been accelerated by the
introduction of English-medium schools all across the
state, even in rural areas. Many names of ornaments,
clothes and traditions are on the brink of extinction.

Deka, a geologist and a retired professor of Gauhati
University, pointed out that the existing Assamese
dictionaries have failed to meet the lexicographic
needs of the language.

According to Deka, there is a great need for a
bilingual thesaurus. His book is a compilation of a
massive number of Assamese words in use from between
the middle of the 18th century till 1960. Thousands of
words not found in standard Assamese dictionaries are
included in this thesaurus.

To help readers understand the words better, drawings
of some traditional Assamese dresses, arms and other
materials have been placed next to several entries in
the thesaurus.

The thesaurus is in two parts.

In the first part, each entry is in Assamese with its
English equivalent. In the second part, the reader can
not only find out the exact meaning of an Assamese
word and its synonyms, he or she can gain an insight
into the nuances of its use in the language.


   

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Re: [Assam] baresohoriya bhaona II

[xourov pathok]

Yes, the website has some good info.  I found this article particularly 
informative.

http://www.barechahariabhowna.com/article-4.htm.  



The website seems to be designed by a web-design company called WebX.  The link 
is in the bottom of the website.  

The youtube.com videos were uploaded by someone called SANDIPON, which are also 
linked from the website.  You may be able to reach him via his youtube account.



Since the site may go away at some point, I have taken the liberty to cut and 
paste the article below.







- Original Message 

From: Dilip/Dil Deka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: xourov pathok <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; assam@assamnet.org

Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 11:37:33 AM

Subject: Re: [Assam] baresohoriya bhaona II



Thank you, Xourov, for leading us to the Baresohoriya Bhaona site. I always 
wondered what 

Baresohoriya Bhaona was about. Now I know a little more.





  The website is well planned and well presented. Do you know who built the 
website?

  Dilipda

  ===

  

 Barechaharia Bhowna – a cultural asset

 Pabitra Kr. Nath

  Jamugurihat  has immensely been contributing to the wide-ranging spectrum of 
vast Assamese  culture with its glorious institution of Barechaharia Bhowna. 
Barechaharia  Bhowna Mahotsava is an institution of Shankari culture which has 
a chequered  history of more than two centuries. Barechaharia Bhowna has 
already gone beyond  the extent of the state and has been reckoned with 
natioinal importance. It is  the largest socio-cultural extravaganza of the 
north east India. 


Barechaharia Bhowna, in brief, can be said to be the simultaneous performance 
of  Bhownas by different village-troupes at a particular place. Bhownas are  
generally performed on or 3 nights. The style of presentation of quite a number 
 of Bhownas under the same mandap (top-cover) is really unique. The exuberance 
of  the people to participate in it and purity of form are two other striking  
features of this Mahotsava.


The fifteenth century saw the emergence of neo-Vaishnavism, inculcated by  
Shankardeva. The artist, poet, social reformer of transcendental genius had a  
wide social outlook based on principle of human equality. He had initiated a  
socio-cultural and religious movement bringing about drastic changes in all  
walks of life of the contemporary society, the influence of which is still 
being  felt. His establishment of Namghars (hall for congregational prayer) and 
Satras  as social-cultural and religious centres is a rare instance in the 
world. 


He wrote Ankia Nats to be staged in Satras and Namghars and accordingly  
performances of the same flourished in the Satras and Namghars. In is a period  
of efflorescence in drama, dance, music, literature. His approach was all  
encompassing and his contribution in building a unified social order is  
stupendous. Srimanta Shankardeva aimed to spread the message of neo-Vaisnavism  
to the masses and he used the occasions such as Bhownas with a view to 
gathering  people together. What we call today Assamese culture actually stands 
on the  foundation of Vaishnavite culture of which Akia Bhowna is a colossus.


Shankardeva was inspired by the India classical tradition of drama associated  
with religion. He had a thorough understanding of Sanskrit dramaturgy as  
envisaged in the Natyasastra. A poet, an artist, actor, director, singer and a  
producer Shankardev had proficiency in Sankskrit rehetoric and prosody. He gave 
 Assamese culture a new aesthetic taste along with moral and spiritual values.  
During his extensive pilgrimage he is expected to study some of the theatre  
forms prevailing in some of the regions he had come across. Shankardeva took up 
 Bhowna as a medium of attaining great virtue and an institution of popular  
entertainment. The elements of folk culture are so fused with it making their  
synthesis a difficult task.


In an apparent view Barechaharia Bhowna is said to be a production of 
Vaisnavite  culture. But, a minute observation enables us to identify many 
elements of  agrarian culture dissolved in it. This post-harvest festival is 
actually a blend  of Shankari and agrarian culture. Let us trace it back and 
throw light on the  path of its evolution for clear understanding. However, we 
refrain from detailed  discussion in this write-up to paucity of space.


In 1769 AD Mowamoriya revolt broke out and in the early part of 19th century 
the  Burmese invasion took place. In such political and social upheavals 
myriads of  persons had to shift their place to north bank of the Brahmaputra 
from Nagaon  and upper Assam districts. In search of a safe and fertile land a 
portion of  them arrived and settled in present day Barbhogia, Chilabandha and 
Murhadol  Mouza of Jamugurihat. The area was being inhabitated by people 
belonging to  various communities, such as Koch, Rabha, Kachari, Mising and 
Kaibarta. The new  gro

Re: [Assam] Profile on Shantikam Hazarika ---by Mitra Kalita

[xourov pathok]

A good question.  The last few days I have been looking for barasahoriya bhaona 
on the net, and that culture did not look dependent.  But put another way, it 
could mean the Assamese have a strong sense of community, and work best in a 
community.  The individualist streak is missing, probably.   

The individualistic streak can only develop in an urban environment, and even 
Guwahati is just a generation away from its rural moorings.  Shantikam Hazarika 
is probably a pioneering urbanizer, in that sense.

x
 


- Original Message 
From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: xourov pathok <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; assam@assamnet.org
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 10:21:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] Profile on Shantikam Hazarika ---by Mitra Kalita


Re: [Assam] Profile on Shantikam Hazarika ---by
Mitra Kali
That was a fine article by Mitra. Hazarika can take just pride on
it.  I saw it earlier. One of Hazarika's comments struck me as
loaded:




"Here, we don't teach
people to stand on their own two feet,"
he says, rueful again. "I call
>it the dependency culture. It is the biggest stumbling
block to development out here," he adds.







*** Question is WHY? Where did it spring from? Is it genetic? Is
it acquired? If so from what?




Perhaps we can dissect it and learn from? Perhaps Hazarika can
elaborate on it?










   
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[Assam] baresohoriya bhaona II

[xourov pathok]

http://www.barechahariabhowna.com/

Past bhaonas:

1 1797 Raghudalani Field west of Pachi Village
2 1807 Northern Field of Khunkhowa Haat of Pachi Village
3 1812 Phakuwa Field to the west of Barbhogia Village
4 1817 Raghudalani Field
5 1885 Ghiladharia ( Field in front of Nandikeshwar Devalaya )
6 1895 "Domar Baakori" to the west of Sholguri (Present Name Panchojonya Khetra)
7 1900 Dhaakori Field to the west of Rangsolia Kaathbari
8 1905 Pakamura Field
9 1910 Borhampur & Baalipora Field within Sorubhogia
10 1917 Pakamura Field
11 1919 Western Corner Baakori of "paatalar chook" Village
12 1921 Pakamura Field
13 1928 Pakamura Field
14 1933 Pakamura Field
15 1949 Pakamura Field
16 1954 Phutukatoli
17 1961 Pakamura Field
18 1965 Pakamura Field
19 1969 Pakamura Field
20 1975 Pakamura Field
21 1979 Pakamura Field
22 1986 Pakamura Field
23 1993 Pakamura Field
24 1999 Pakamura Field




   
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[Assam] Profile on Shantikam Hazarika ---by Mitra Kalita

[xourov pathok]

http://www.livemint.com/2007/05/14234933/Shantikam-Hazarika-Promoting.html

Hazarika: Promoting the East, this man tells its youth to go west

Assam credit Hazarika with offering youth the first signs of hope in a long time
S. Mitra Kalita

   New Delhi



Guwahati: Shantikam
Hazarika says he was on the fast track. The graduate of the Indian
Institute of Management-Ahmedadabad could actually picture himself in
the managing director’s seat of Oil India Ltd (OIL). In 1979, he was
despatched to Norway for three months of training. 

He
returned to Dhuliajan before the new year, just in time for the first
fatality of thousands more to come in the infamous Assam agitation, a
movement partly defined by a people’s desire for control over and
higher royalties from their natural resources—including oil.

“Tej deem, tel nideeu!”
(we’ll give you blood, but not our oil) protesters chanted through the
streets in between slurs on then-prime minister Indira Gandhi. 

Only
fleetingly, Hazarika faced a quandary between the soil that had given
him life and the oil that gave him livelihood. His sympathies lay with
the former, but he assured his bosses it wouldn’t affect his
professional performance. 

Impossible, he recalls they said,
eventually sending him on a punishment transfer to Bhubaneswar. Two
years passed and Hazarika returned home to help set up the Assam
Institute of Management (AIM) and serve as its director. By then, the
Assam Accord had been signed, and hopes brimmed for a return to
normalcy and a flood of investment. 

Two decades later,
Hazarika sits in his office at the institute he’s created and
matter-of-factly laments what has actually happened: “This state is
doomed. I’ll be 60 in a few months and I don’t think I’ll make an
impact.”

Those who know him—and in tight-knit, insular Assam,
that is a lot of people—disagree, crediting Hazarika with offering
youth the first signs of hope they have seen in a long time. That’s
significant as sectors from airlines to retail to business process
outsourcing (BPO) look to regions such as this one to provide manpower
in a growing economy. And so Hazarika has become the man many turn to
to help make their escape from bandhs, bombings, from home. 

His
tentacles extend far beyond the dingy halls of the institute to
encompass the entire country, as he lures recruiters, friends and
fellow IIM graduates in the position of hiring, assuring them of a
large pool of employable high performers in the Northeast. To keep
himself honest, he hustles to ready students before their interviews
and challenges them to think for themselves, outside of the box, like
the leaders they could be. 

For many people eyeing
development and recruitment in the Northeast, from companies to
non-governmental organizations, Hazarika has become a first point of
contact, a translator, negotiator, navigator. The barriers to operating
in this conflict-plagued region go far beyond language and cultural
differences, entrenched corruption and weak infrastructure. The
Assamese possess an entirely different mindset, Hazarika maintains.

“Here, we don’t teach
people to stand on their own two feet,” he says, rueful again. “I call
it the dependency culture. It is the biggest stumbling block to
development out here,” he adds.

Earlier in the day, Hazarika
cruised down a newly constructed national highway, planned for more
than a decade, but hastily paved in time for the 2007 National Games
held in Guwahati. The scene on either side of him mixes old and new:
temples and brick-making factories, tennis courts and a sleek-looking
athletes village. Around are the hills that form the bowl that is
Guwahati, lushness occasionally interrupted by brown patches of
presumable development. 

“It’s difficult to make things
happen out here. Business development is taking place,” Hazarika says.
“But most of it has not been well planned.”

Upon arrival at
his office just after 10am, the visitors were already waiting, phone
messages stacked up—the previous day AIM had announced its admission
list. Nearly 160 had applied and about 50 received an offer in the
first round. From a former chief minister’s phone call to a slight man
arguing his daughter’s case in person, it seemed everyone was making a
plea on behalf of the rejected. Hazarika, though, commented on those
overwhelmingly absent: applicants themselves. 

“This man is
coming for his daughter,” Hazarika says, after the father had left. “I
would have been more impressed if she came. They are 29, 30 years old
and still relying on their fathers and uncles to help do something for
them. This is a big Assamese trait.”

Hazarika was born the
same year as India—1947. Just as partition required reflection and
redefinition, the agitation through the 1980s and its after-effects
today have forced the same once again of denizens from a state
connected to the rest of India through geography described as a
“chicken’

[Assam] sattriya nritya

[xourov pathok]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJ15-lRx_dA

a beautiful piece.




   
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[Assam] baresohoriya bhaona

[xourov pathok]

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=SANDIPON

look at some of the videos on baresohoriya bhaona, a 200-year old
festival from jamuguri near tezpur.  boring, at first dekko---nothing seems
to happen.  but on a second thought, i was completely floored.

each worker seems to know what he had to do, and there is 
perfect cooperation.  it seems almost surreal.  people were
working, discussing, joking and getting things done.  when you 
step back to think about it, it is mind boggling.

it was like a perfect colony of ants, but more relaxed.  the
land of lahe-lahe is lazy for a reason.

also, note that all materials were perishable and locally available.  
the pillars were bamboo.  the twines that bound them were bamboo.
the rod that dug up holes in the ground were bamboo with
a split end.  the hay was from the last crop.  a perfect harmony
with the environment!!  the only iron tool was the typical dao with the 
pointed end.  absolutely amazing!!

i hope this tradition continues in just this way, uncorrupted.

maybe some netters, who have organized mega-events
or lead major projects can comment on this.

x




  

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[Assam] Right to Information in Assam

[xourov pathok]

> RTI FINDINGS LEAD TO VIOLENT THREATS IN ASSAM

> Guwahati, May 20, 2007:  Akhil Gogoi of Golaghat town in Assam has been a 
> beleaguered man for more than a year now. His life under threat, he has 
> been practically forced to go underground following multiple applications 
> under the RTI Act that would bring to light massive corruption by local 
> officials. He is not alone.  Namita Subedi,  Sanjit Tanti and many others 
> in Assam have also faced violent threats after they questioned the 
> implementation of various schemes through RTI.

Thank you, Sanjib-da, for forwarding this article.

It is not a coincidence that the anti-corruption movement is called the 
Transparency International.
(http://www.transparency.org/).  Right to information and transparency in 
governance is indeed
the way to go forward.  I hope the scope of RTI in India is further extended so 
that greater
public participation, or at least scrutiny, in public affairs and governance 
becomes possible.

x




 

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[Assam] good pepa playing - more bihu

[xourov pathok]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KgJEcbKULDg




 

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[Assam] bihu

[xourov pathok]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0bwnc5zdeI0

let no one object to our dhemali.  bihu lives on in us!!




 

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[Assam] pitha on youtube

[xourov pathok]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_5HispzzqZw
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wYuMIMeutSA




 

Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html 

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[Assam] jeevan reddy committee report

[xourov pathok]

http://www.hindu.com/nic/afa/

if the recommendations (http://www.hindu.com/nic/afa/afa-part-iv.pdf) are 
accepted than this is a good example how draconian laws/policies (or a part 
thereof) applicable in a small region or special cases finally make their ways 
into the general system.  

x





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Re: [Assam] Nehru favoured flow of migrants to NE

[xourov pathok]

--- umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Xourav-da,
>
>   Really?
>
>   The question which you have to answer is that
> whether nehru favored illegal migration from
> Bangladesh, Burma or China etc into Assam.
> Bangladeshi illegal immigrants are all over India
> --even about 200,000 in Delhi slums and even on
> Western border in Rajasthan. Did Nehru favor all
> that. Was that because he hailed from Kashmir from
> where the Hindus had to run as refugees into rest of
> India?
>

yes and no.  first, it is likely they are discussing
the refugee problem following the partition of india,
and not the "bangladeshi immigration" issue.  the
letter is dated 1949, which is very close to indian
independence; and in this period it is likely that
some muslims returned to the then east pakistan and
not the other way around, especially since sylhet had
decided in a referendum to break away from assam and
go with pakistan.

what is very interesting is nehru's threat of
withholding financial payments.  bordoloi and gang
were known to be not nehru's men.  i hope some
scholars look into the archives and tell us what
actually happened.

second, who shoulders the burden of the illegal
immigrants is a different issue.  it will naturally
attract imdt and other sub issues.

x-da


>
>   Umesh
> 
> xourov pathok <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   http://www.assamtribune.com/oct0806/at02.html
> 
> Nehru favoured flow of migrants to NE
> By Prabal Kr Das
> GUWAHATI, Oct 7 – “The refugee problem is one of
> the two or three problems to which we give first
> priority in India at present. This applies to the
> utilisation of our financial resources also. Our
> development schemes are thought of in terms, to some
> extent, of refugees. If Assam adopts an attitude of
> incapacity to help in solving the refugee problem,
> then the claims of Assam for financial help
> obviously
> suffer.”
> 
> The peculiar pro quid pro finds mention in a letter
> written to former State Chief Minister, the late
> Gopinath Bardoloi by the then Prime Minister
> Jawaharlal Nehru. The communication to Bordoloi
> dated
> New Delhi, May 18, 1949 and bearing number 413
> –P.M.
> was in response to a letter the Assam Chief Minister
> had written on May 7 that year.
> 
> The letter was found among the dossiers belonging to
> the eminent politician late Gauri Shankar
> Bhattacharya, who shared close ties with Bardoloi.
> Handing it over to The Assam Tribune today, his son
> Siddhartha Bhattacharya, senior lawyer at the
> Guwahati
> High Court, attested its authenticity.
> 
> Apart from linking financial flow to the issue of
> refugees, Nehru in his two-page correspondence
> expresses his surprise that Bardoloi was finding it
> difficult to deal “with influx of Muslims into
> Assam.” He then becomes somewhat tentative and
> says,
> “I do not think there is a permit system in regard
> to Eastern Bengal and Western Bengal and possibly no
> such system exists in regard to Assam either.”
> Later, Nehru hints at devising ways and means to
> deal
> with it.
> 
> In his letter Nehru takes note of Bardoloi’s
> belief
> that dearth of land in his state was an issue, and
> contends that if availability of land was a problem
> in
> Assam, “it is still less available in the rest of
> India which is very heavily populated, barring the
> deserts and mountains.”
> 
> Nehru’s posture is in stark contrast to
> Bardoloi’s
> concern in protecting the interest of his State when
> the Chief Minister is asked, “Where are these
> [refugees] to go if each Province adopts the
> attitude
> that Assam apparently has done?”
> 
> Subsequently, the Prime Minister makes his position
> clearer on the issue and states what appears like
> words of finality – “Therefore, we have to
> absorb
> them and make provision for them so that they might
> be
> good citizens. In doing this all provinces have to
> help and cooperate and it will do no good to a
> province to refuse cooperation in the national
> work.”
> 
> Nehru took exception to the stance of one minister
> of
> Bardoloi’s Cabinet, “I understand that Medhi,
> your
> Finance minister, is a strong opponent of any
> further
> refugees coming to Assam. I think he is wrong in
> this.”
> 
> >From the letter it becomes patently obvious that
> Nehru
> favoured Assam to act as host to refugees flowing in
> from erstwhile East Pakistan. Some other parts of
> the
> letter highlight corresponding views approving an
> easy
> acceptance of migrants flowing into the region.
> 
> On the other hand, Gopinath Bardoloi’s concerns
> rev

[Assam] Nehru favoured flow of migrants to NE

[xourov pathok]

http://www.assamtribune.com/oct0806/at02.html

Nehru favoured flow of migrants to NE
By Prabal Kr Das
GUWAHATI, Oct 7 – “The refugee problem is one of
the two or three problems to which we give first
priority in India at present. This applies to the
utilisation of our financial resources also. Our
development schemes are thought of in terms, to some
extent, of refugees. If Assam adopts an attitude of
incapacity to help in solving the refugee problem,
then the claims of Assam for financial help obviously
suffer.”

The peculiar pro quid pro finds mention in a letter
written to former State Chief Minister, the late
Gopinath Bardoloi by the then Prime Minister
Jawaharlal Nehru. The communication to Bordoloi dated
New Delhi, May 18, 1949 and bearing number 413 –P.M.
was in response to a letter the Assam Chief Minister
had written on May 7 that year.

The letter was found among the dossiers belonging to
the eminent politician late Gauri Shankar
Bhattacharya, who shared close ties with Bardoloi.
Handing it over to The Assam Tribune today, his son
Siddhartha Bhattacharya, senior lawyer at the Guwahati
High Court, attested its authenticity.

Apart from linking financial flow to the issue of
refugees, Nehru in his two-page correspondence
expresses his surprise that Bardoloi was finding it
difficult to deal “with influx of Muslims into
Assam.” He then becomes somewhat tentative and says,
“I do not think there is a permit system in regard
to Eastern Bengal and Western Bengal and possibly no
such system exists in regard to Assam either.”
Later, Nehru hints at devising ways and means to deal
with it.

In his letter Nehru takes note of Bardoloi’s belief
that dearth of land in his state was an issue, and
contends that if availability of land was a problem in
Assam, “it is still less available in the rest of
India which is very heavily populated, barring the
deserts and mountains.”

Nehru’s posture is in stark contrast to Bardoloi’s
concern in protecting the interest of his State when
the Chief Minister is asked, “Where are these
[refugees] to go if each Province adopts the attitude
that Assam apparently has done?”

Subsequently, the Prime Minister makes his position
clearer on the issue and states what appears like
words of finality – “Therefore, we have to absorb
them and make provision for them so that they might be
good citizens. In doing this all provinces have to
help and cooperate and it will do no good to a
province to refuse cooperation in the national
work.”

Nehru took exception to the stance of one minister of
Bardoloi’s Cabinet, “I understand that Medhi, your
Finance minister, is a strong opponent of any further
refugees coming to Assam. I think he is wrong in
this.”

>From the letter it becomes patently obvious that Nehru
favoured Assam to act as host to refugees flowing in
from erstwhile East Pakistan. Some other parts of the
letter highlight corresponding views approving an easy
acceptance of migrants flowing into the region.

On the other hand, Gopinath Bardoloi’s concerns
revealed a deeper understanding of contemporary
reality. In retrospect, no less manifest is the fact
that what once was perceived as “national work” by
a statesmanlike figure has now become the root cause
of a grave problem afflicting the State.

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[Assam] planter raj to swaraj

[xourov pathok]

the book was actually first published around 1977.
sukanya sarmah fails to mention that and the possible
enhancements over the 1977 edition (if there are any).

x

Ram Sarangapani wrote:

> A new history just out. The book traces out the 
> history of Assam from 1846-1947 and talks about 
> tea plantations, freedom struggle, and electoral
> politics.
 
> Sukanya Sharma critiques the book by Amalendu Guha 
> and writes "His work has given Assam a world-class
> history book, based on solid research"
 
> --Ram

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[Assam] first step away from a colonial police system

[xourov pathok]

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1060923/asp/nation/story_6783588.asp

After 145 years, the friendly policeman
OUR LEGAL CORRESPONDENT

New Delhi, Sept. 22: The Supreme Court today moved to
reform India’s 145-year-old, Raj-created policing
system to free it from political control and make it
answerable to the public.

The court ordered a “police complaints authority”
set up in every district to probe complaints against
officers and a watchdog called “state security
commission” in every state to ensure governments
didn’t influence or pressure the force.

The Centre must establish its own watchdog, a
“national security commission”, for paramilitary
forces like the CRPF, CISF and BSF.

To curb politicians’ power to transfer upright
officers, the court ordered a “police establishment
board” set up to decide transfers, postings and
promotions for officers below deputy superintendent.
It fixed a minimum tenure of two years for station
house officers and their juniors.

Petitioner and former BSF chief Prakash Singh, who had
fought for these changes for a decade, said the
judgment “is bound to change the working philosophy
of Indian police who… first served their colonial
masters and later the political bosses”.

The order, setting up the first major reform of the
force since the Indian Police Act was passed in 1861,
“will make the police people-friendly…. Good and
honest officers won’t fear getting thrown out if
they don’t bend before political bosses,” Singh
said.

To celebrity policewoman Kiran Bedi, the day is
“historic not only for police but also citizens of
India”.

The Centre, states and Union territories must file
compliance reports by January 3 next year. The order
will stay in force even after the Centre frames a
“model police code” on the recommendations of
various committees.

The Centre’s code on a state subject like law and
order can only be optional, but the states must obey
the court’s directives. 

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Re: [Assam] auhomia's of bangladesh

[xourov pathok]

the article you mentioned is on the web:
http://tpoi.blogspot.com/2000/01/bangladeshi-assamese.html



--- Manoj Das <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> fantastic piece of information..let the kharkhowas
> live forever wherever
> they are, irrespective of their religious believes.
> BTW the famous
> bangladeshi silver screen queen was Maya Hazarika.
> 
> 
> Lahey Lahey Zindabad!!
> 
> mkd
> 
> 
> On 9/11/06, xourov pathok <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > +  We discovered Mac in 1997 through Assamnet
> > +  and he wrote an article "The Bangladeshi
> Assamese"
> > +  in the Golden Jubilee souvenir "Smoronika"
> > +  published by Assam Association, Delhi.
> >
> > +  They still follow some Typical Assamese customs
> > +  in marriage and other social gatherings. Mac is
> > +  a very humble guy and is a very successful pop
> > +  star there.
> >
> > +  Manoj
> >
> > Here are some of them celebrating Bihu.
> > http://auhomias.blogspot.com/
> >
> > xourov
> >
> > __
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> > ___
> > assam mailing list
> > assam@assamnet.org
> >
>
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Manoj Kumar Das
> C 172 Gr Floor
> Sarvodaya Enclave
> New Delhi 110017
> Tel: 91 11 26533824
> Telefax: 91 11 26533829
> Hand Phone: 91 9312650558
> 
> 
> 
> Be so unselfish that when God writes your destiny;
> he can be free to ask:
> What do you want?
> 


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[Assam] auhomia's of bangladesh

[xourov pathok]

+  We discovered Mac in 1997 through Assamnet 
+  and he wrote an article "The Bangladeshi Assamese" 
+  in the Golden Jubilee souvenir "Smoronika" 
+  published by Assam Association, Delhi.
 
+  They still follow some Typical Assamese customs 
+  in marriage and other social gatherings. Mac is 
+  a very humble guy and is a very successful pop 
+  star there.
 
+  Manoj

Here are some of them celebrating Bihu.
http://auhomias.blogspot.com/

xourov

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Re: [Assam] positives vs negatives

[xourov pathok]

--- "Roy, Santanu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Xourav: 
> I did not have any specific process in mind when I
> wrote that. 
> I want to pose the debate not just in terms of
> positive and negative features (and which of these
> are more serious) but the relationship between them.
> 

Santanu-da,

I do not want the debate to be in these terms either,
but the focus on the failures of economic reforms is
an essential part of the feedback which all reforms
should encompass.  More of this below.


> Let me say at the outset that this is not something
> I clearly understand - like most of us, I only have
> small pieces and clues, and being so far from the
> country for so long makes me ill informed. 
> But I am sure we would all like to hear what people
> think. Particularly, in the context of Assam. 
> 1. Are there certain aspects of the boom in certain
> service and urban sectors of the Indian economy that
> may actually be detrimental to economic growth and
> poverty alleviation in Assam? In other words, is
> there a potential conflict of interest?

You should probably not ask non-economists trick
questions :)  Nevertheless this is my reply:  No, I do
not believe economics is a zero-sum game.   But that
does not mean conflicts never occur.  The Narmada
Bachao Andolan is a glaring example.

Let alone Assam, the effect on the India poverty
figures themselves seem controversial.  
http://www.wws.princeton.edu/rpds/downloads/deaton_kozel_datadogma.pdf
Amidst all the statistical/data confusion, it is
reasonable to assume that reforms have had negligible
effect on poverty eradication.  But the review
mentions that vulnerable groups are worse off.  The
mango kernel deaths in Orissa, the Bt Cotton farmers'
suicides, the child mortality in general and
malnourishment in tribal areas of Maharastra etc. are
(my) examples.

So the conflict of interests you mention are not
"potential" but already on display.  

As far as Assam is concerned, it has missed the 1990s
reforms bus.  This is not disputed.  So I see very
little value, from the Assam point of view, to keep
harping on them.  

As I mentioned earlier, the focus on the failures form
a feedback mechanism that can be used to drive some of
the benefits of the reforms toward the less
privileged.  
But there is an effective "gag order" against
"emphasis of the negatives" which is why I posted my
initially reaction to Dilip-da.

> 2. Does the emerging economy in India create
> implications for the political system that may
> inhibit the role of the state in creating conditions
> for economic growth in Assam and north east India?

>From my perspective, it does.  But the effect is not
automatic, and it could go either way, depending on
the way we act.  I believe the state mechanisms have
to be influenced one way or the other.  Like Sanjib
Baruah does when he emphasizes that India's look East
policy has to be Northeast based.  The problem in the
northeast can be stated simply as this---the region
has tried to open the state to local needs, and has
tried various tactics, violence included, but has not
found the right set of keys yet. 

There are some positives from the state.  Jairam
Ramesh, for instance, is looking at the problems
afresh
http://www.india-seminar.com/2005/550/550%20jairam%20ramesh.htm
The center is trying to negotiate with the ULFA. Etc.

> ..questions such as these. 
> I realise you will be smiling as you read this. But
> lets just say, its my turn to ask questions.
>  

I have answered your questions.  But you didn't answer
mine :)

xourov

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Re: [Assam] positives vs negatives

[xourov pathok]

--- "Roy, Santanu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Perhaps, the difference between the two points of
> view - for example,
> that of Xourov and Dilip-da - originates in whether
> one regards the
> significant dark sides of the economy - such as
> Assam and north east
> India - as simply transitory historical elements
> that will eventually be
> brought to "light" by certain well established
> socio-economic processes
> that are in operation or whether one sees the areas
> of darkness as
> essentially being on the other side of deep
> institutional fault lines
> that are very much exacerbated by the dominant
> socio-economic processes
> that operate in India today. 
> Are the forces that contribute to sharp economic
> growth in the areas of
> light also directly and indirectly contributing to
> depression and
> stagnation in the areas of darkness or do they pull
> them up?
> 

Santanu-da,

Which socio-economic processes do you have in mind?

xourov

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Re: [Assam] positives vs negatives

[xourov pathok]

--- Dilip/Dil Deka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Dear Xourov,
>   Why did you pick only a part of my email? The
> essence of what you wrote below was in the second
> part of my email. Did you read that part differently
> than I intended to convey?

Dilip-da,

If what I said agrees with what you said in the second
paragraph, why are you piqued?

Yes, I did read that part differently.  "More people
must move on to the middle class" is as innane a
statement as one could come across.  I suspect you
said it because you are trying to apply the US model,
which is a land predominantly of the middle class
(which Katrina showed, is not actually true.  There is
a large but hidden lower class).  The middle class in
India is in fact growing at a tremendous rate now. 
But the rate at which it needs to grow to become
dominant is just mindboggling.  It is simply not
possible.

Moreoever, to sustain the middle classes in India also
requires a lot of effort.  Plus, there is a caste
component to the middle class itself.  This was on
display in the recent anti-reservation agitation in
India.

The government made the present middle class possible
by subsidizing education.  At present, the government
is now moving away from such subsidies.  The easy
access to education that you (or even I had) in India
is now a thing of the past.

Nevertheless, it was not my intention to focus on an
unrealistic solution.  My interest was to focus on the
Assam situation instead---what the positives in the
Indian economy mean for Assam.  

xourov



>   I'd like you to know that I and many others like
> me do not believe that all is well in India. Some
> people are trying hard in India and they are seeing
> fruits of their labor. So why try to pull them down?
> I agree the Haves in India must constantly work to
> lift the living standard of the Have-nots if they
> want to maintain the pace of their achievement and
> live in India. Like I said if the likes of P Mishra
> are providing that vigil only, I have no complaint. 
> Dilipda
> xourov pathok <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   + Pankaj Mishra's observations are not wrong but
> he
> is
> + emphasizing the negatives while playing down the
> + positives. 
> 
> Pankaj Mishra does not emphasize the negatives, but
> restores parity in the discussion. The negatives are
> never mentioned, which is what he is doing.
> 
> + By playing with words no one can deny the fact
> that
> + Indian economy has improved. It is also a fact
> that
> + the wealth made in India is not well distributed.
> + Yes there is stark poverty in India but it is not
> + as bad as it was in the fifties and sixties.
> 
> Though absolute poverty seems to have decreased,
> that
> alone does not speak of the problems today. By
> emphasizing only on the positives, one runs the risk
> of forgetting the other side and the associated
> risks
> involved. For example, farmers are commiting
> suicides, mostly due to debt and a lack of a viable
> agricultural policy. Manmohan Singh recently visited
> the areas and listened to the farmers. There seems
> to
> be an increasing problem of infant malnutrition and
> moratality in Maharastra in the tribal areas.
> Poverty
> data alone will not be able to catch these problems.
> 
> In many other areas, as the government moves away
> from
> direct economic policies, the ultra-leftists have
> grown. The government now views this solely as a
> security issue, and local governments like the one
> is
> Jharkhand now wants to buy helicopter gunships to
> kill
> the naxalites! Besides forming village militia. From
> the experience in the northeast I hope you realise
> what this means-- a veritable civil war! 
> 
> The problems of regional disparity is all the more
> fearsome, and should be the focus of attention on
> Assamnet. If you looked at the per capita income
> over
> the years, you will see that whereas the average
> India
> index saw a rapid rise in the 1980s, the Assam index
> has not kept pace. Both have risen, of course, but
> the widening gap is a concern, especially since
> Assam's was higher than the India average soon after
> Independence.
> (http://www.undp.org.in/hdrc/shdr/assam/Chp2.pdf
> page
> 25).
> 
> From the point of view of Assam, it is useless to
> focus on the positives in the Indian economy because
> de-regulation has not resulted in much benefit for
> the
> state. Assam is very unlikely to benefit from a
> growing software industry, which is already on
> display. The economy is still a captive of
> government
> policies today. The implosion of the tea industry
> would result in a very big problem, which will
> easily
> take on ethnic colors. If the sea level increases
>

[Assam] positives vs negatives

[xourov pathok]

+  Pankaj Mishra's observations are not wrong but he
is
+  emphasizing the negatives while playing down the
+  positives. 

Pankaj Mishra does not emphasize the negatives, but
restores parity in the discussion.  The negatives are
never mentioned, which is what he is doing.

+  By playing with words no one can deny the fact that
+  Indian economy has improved. It is also a fact that
+  the wealth made in India is not well distributed.
+  Yes there is stark poverty in India but it is not
+  as bad as it was in the fifties and sixties.

Though absolute poverty seems to have decreased, that
alone does not speak of the problems today.  By
emphasizing only on the positives, one runs the risk
of forgetting the other side and the associated risks
involved.  For example, farmers are commiting
suicides, mostly due to debt and a lack of a viable
agricultural policy.  Manmohan Singh recently visited
the areas and listened to the farmers.  There seems to
be an increasing problem of infant malnutrition and
moratality in Maharastra in the tribal areas.  Poverty
data alone will not be able to catch these problems.

In many other areas, as the government moves away from
direct economic policies, the ultra-leftists have
grown.  The government now views this solely as a
security issue, and local governments like the one is
Jharkhand now wants to buy helicopter gunships to kill
the naxalites!  Besides forming village militia.  From
the experience in the northeast I hope you realise
what this means-- a veritable civil war!  

The problems of regional disparity is all the more
fearsome, and should be the focus of attention on
Assamnet.  If you looked at the per capita income over
the years, you will see that whereas the average India
index saw a rapid rise in the 1980s, the Assam index
has not kept pace.  Both have risen, of course, but
the widening gap is a concern, especially since
Assam's was higher than the India average soon after
Independence.
(http://www.undp.org.in/hdrc/shdr/assam/Chp2.pdf page
25).

>From the point of view of Assam, it is useless to
focus on the positives in the Indian economy because
de-regulation has not resulted in much benefit for the
state.  Assam is very unlikely to benefit from a
growing software industry, which is already on
display. The economy is still a captive of government
policies today.  The implosion of the tea industry
would result in a very big problem, which will easily
take on ethnic colors.  If the sea level increases due
to environmental reasons and inundates the coastal
regions of Bangladesh, you can imagine how it would
impact the politics and the demographics in Assam.
Assam still does not have viable indigenous industries
that can provide employment for the locals, which will
require investment in infrastructure.  As India
develops as a service economy, what happens to the
northeast?  Let alone Assam having access to markets
for indigenous products, it is itself a captive market
for mainstream Indian products.

xourov

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[Assam] people's history of delhi

[xourov pathok]

meet some jihadis here, from 1857.
http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20060703&fname=Cover+Story+%28F%29&sid=1

but delhi is much more than that...

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Re: [Assam] beef-eating in india -myth of Jesus, Muhhamad, Moses etc

[xourov pathok]

--- umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Any comments about Mythical nature of Jesus, Moses
> or Muhammad?
>   There is NO historical proof that any of the above
> did any miraculous work to render them divine --like
> resurrection of Christ, parting the waves crossing
> the Red sea by Moses etc  --yet despite the stories
> circulating around them which defy human logic -they
> are believed to have existed. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus


>   Why not about Ram or Krishna ( recently they have
> even found an underwater city -adjacent Dwarka-
> established by Krishna -as mentioned in Mahabharat
> and other Hindu texts) -despite some
> miraculous/illogical events?

rama and krishna are given as much historicity as
possible, according to the evidence.  the underwater
city they claim as dwarka is not confirmed.  the
problem is let alone dwarka, even hastinapur,
indraprastha etc have not been properly identified. 
even though they have found settlements, they do not
correspond to cities, let alone grand cities as
depicted in the epics.  this does not negate the
possibility of a historical indraprastha, of course. 
it simply means we have not found it yet.





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Re: [Assam] beef-eating in india

[xourov pathok]

--- umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I think most Hindus in the whole world are really
> concerned that History books term their religious
> heroes and actions as myths -as mentioned in their
> numerous texts- even while quoting from these very
> texts on other non-isses .

they are mentioned as myths because their
historicities have not been established yet.  the
excavations at ayodhya and other mythological sites
have given us nothing.  there is a strong opinion that
the ayodhya is possibly in afghanistan.  the vedic
sarayu is identified with the avestan haroyu, the
present name of which is helmand in afghanistan. it is
possible we might find the copper age rama's ayodhya
there.

the archeological evidence will only provide the date
and time of a possible settlement.  the myth of rama
has grown over the centuries, each rendering adding
newer and newer details.  so in the end, the
historical rama could be very different from the
mythological rama.



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Re: [Assam] beef-eating in india

[xourov pathok]

--- Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 
> All I am saying is that some small segment like the
> BJP or some Govt.
> official/s took it upon themselves to prove or
> disprove some issue that most
> Hindus are either ambivalent or truely don't care
> whether ancient Hindus did
> or did not eat beef.

people are actually very sensitive about eating beef
and cow slaughter.  you probably remember that most
communal riots in the past were started by someone
placing a dead pig in front of a mosque or a dead cow
in front of a temple.  in an incident a couple years
ago 5 dalits were lynched by a mob because they
suspected they were skinning a live cow.  they were
actually skinning a cow that was already dead for 24
hours.  the dalits made their living by collecting
cowhides and selling them to tanneries.

http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/fl1923/stories/20021122003703800.htm

eating beef and cow slaughter are big and potentially
explosive issues in india.  talking about the past and
the record of beef-eating in hinduism is a means to
difusing the situation.


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Re: [Assam] beef-eating in india: History is from Hindu texts?

[xourov pathok]

--- umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Pl comment on the following:
>
>   Pl. see what Ambedkar quotes from Hindu texts.
> Given that he was educated in the West - Columbia
> Univ, London Sch. of Economics etc , Germany etc -we
> can believe that his quotes are not fabricated (any
> questions about tis assumption?) .

if you doubt his quotes, check them up.  there are
sanskrit versions as well as english translations
available.


>   His quotes from Rig Ved show that cow is Aghnya
> -NOT to be killed.

that is not the only thing he says about the cow in
the vedas.  



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Re: [Assam] beef-eating in india: History is from Hindu texts?

[xourov pathok]

--- umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Pl comment on the Ambedkar's quotes of cow killing
> -in my other post.
>

i could not find ambedkar's quotes in your other
mails, but i presume you mean the comments made here:

http://www.countercurrents.org/dalit-ambekarbeef050703.htm

do you want me to comment on this?


That the Aryans of the Rig Veda did kill cows for
purposes of food and ate beef is abundantly clear from
the Rig Veda itself. In Rig Veda (X. 86.14) Indra
says: “They cook for one 15 plus twenty oxen”. The
Rig Veda (X.91.14) says that for Agni were sacrificed
horses, bulls, oxen, barren cows and rams. From the
Rig Veda (X.72.6) it appears that the cow was killed
with a sword or axe.


i would say he does not contradict jha and achaya.



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Re: [Assam] beef-eating in india: History is from Hindu texts?

[xourov pathok]

--- umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> You are wrong there. I have read while in India (I
> have brought the book with me here as well) the
> passage in Rig Ved which mentions beef eating. It
> says " Beef eating is not good --try to reduce beef
> eating" --while speaking to some devotee.

there is not one but many references in the vedas
about beef.

jha's is not the first book that talks about beef in
the vedas.  look at k t achayas "indian food: a
historical companion" and "historical dictionary of
indian food" under beef.  and the references therein. 



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Re: [Assam] beef-eating in india: History is from Hindu texts?

[xourov pathok]

--- umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Iraq war took place as did WW2 -we have some
> evidence of it now. What is the certainty that this
> evidence would remain after 5,000 years -when all
> the damaged aircrafts, guns , cannon and warships
> are melted and used to make some other tools: When
> the buildings  are remade to house new tenants.
>
>   The only facts (historically provable ) would be
> the texts, photographs etc -to prove Iraq war o WW2
> took place. Similarly about Jesus or Hitler or
> anyone including my great grandfather (i have no DNA
> match to prove that he was really my great
> grandfather --we all believe so -about our
> anscestors:) ). Hindu texts are first and foremost
> --written texts -the few written texts or knowledge
> we have about that era. 

much of history is based on written texts.  but again,
they have to bear witness.  and they have to be
reliable witness.

take for example the gospel of judas made public
recently by national geographic.  it has been dated to
about 180 CE.  as a result it bears closer witness to
events then than a document from today, say.  as a
result historians have been forced to re-evaluate a
lot of things.

(texts could be in the form of stone inscription and
other paleographic sources.  they are neven taken
literally).


>
>   Why pick and choose. Why take up a small issue of
> who ate what and not who was the king and what wars
> and polictics took place in those days - gleaned
> from these texts?

who ate what and not is not a small issue.  it is
political as well as religious.  

and religious texts are being used to piece together
histories.  as far as they are seen to bear witness. 
the vedic texts are being used to piece together the
picture of societies in which they were written.  what
is being resisted is a literal reading of these texts.
just as a literal reading of the bible is being
resisted by some.



>
>   It can be argued that if some Hindu saint today
> wrote some literary piece or was quoted in some
> newsreport as admonishing or cautioning some small
> segment of  Hindus (read tribals , neo-converts etc)
> not to eat beef (which they had been doing earlier
> -as in NE India USA's ISKCON members etc)-and
> later such a text is found after 5,000 years --they
> might assume that all Hindus today eat beef---going
> by your logic of quoting Hindu texts.
>
>   Your comments are welcome.
>

a careful historian would see that it was addressed to
a small segement of ne tribals.  and he will present
his inference accordingly.   if he didn't his rivals
would get a chance to correct him.

for a lay person, what is important is whether beef
was eaten.  yes, it was.  whether it had official
sanction.  yes, it had.  this is enough to show those
who claim that the cow was always sacred and that beef
was never eaten that they are wrong.

if the satapatha brahmana says: meat is the best kind
of food, what is your inference?  if the vedas said
that indra liked cattle sacrifices, what is your
inference?









>   Umesh
> 
> xourov pathok <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
> 
> --- umesh sharma wrote:
> 
> > even Xourav-da's article quotes only Hindu
> religious
> > texts --where is the historical info -- which is
> not
> > in religious tests. Why don't you believe Hindu
> > texts when they say that Mahabharat war took place
> > and Ram and Krishna etc were heroes born and bred
> in
> > India. Why do you declare them to be myths -and
> they
> > do not find a place in history of ancient India.
> > Why such one-sided version of history --why cow
> > killing is more important that the Mahabharat war?
> > 
> 
> a point to note here is that something is historical
> if someone or something bears witness to things. 
> things are never so clear cut in real life and a
> very
> reliable witness is rare, but this is a good thumb
> rule. generally, if there are more than one witness,
> our confidence increases.
> 
> religious texts are excellent witnesses to certain
> things. religious belief systems, for instance. if
> you wanted to find out what christianity believes
> in,
> then the bible is an excellent source. 
> 
> but the bible is not a good guide for other things. 
> like the historicity of jesus christ, for instance. 
> this has to be backed up from other sources too. 
> leave alone the historicity of the seize of troy
> even
> the existence of troy is not fully established.
> 
> you may hate history for it, but generally this is
> the best choice.
> 
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Re: [Assam] beef-eating in india: History is from Hindu texts?

[xourov pathok]

--- umesh sharma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> even Xourav-da's article quotes only Hindu religious
> texts --where is the historical info -- which is not
> in religious tests. Why don't you believe Hindu
> texts when they say that Mahabharat war took place
> and Ram and Krishna etc were heroes born and bred in
> India. Why do you declare them to be myths -and they
> do not find a place in history of ancient India.
>   Why such one-sided version of history --why cow
> killing is more important that the Mahabharat war?
> 

a point to note here is that something is historical
if someone or something bears witness to things. 
things are never so clear cut in real life and a very
reliable witness is rare, but this is a good thumb
rule.  generally, if there are more than one witness,
our confidence increases.

religious texts are excellent witnesses to certain
things.  religious belief systems, for instance.  if
you wanted to find out what christianity believes in,
then the bible is an excellent source.  

but the bible is not a good guide for other things. 
like the historicity of jesus christ, for instance. 
this has to be backed up from other sources too. 
leave alone the historicity of the seize of troy even
the existence of troy is not fully established.

you may hate history for it,  but generally this is
the best choice.

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Re: [Assam] beef-eating in india

[xourov pathok]

--- Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Beef-eating could be a big issue in India today. But
> that was not the issue
> we were discussing here.
> 
> What I said was most mainstream Hindus don't really
> care if ancient Hindus
> ate beef, and if this was touted to be true in
> today's textbooks. That the
> BJP and others trying to rewrite this, is I think a
> small segment hell-bent
> on such trivialities.
> 

i am not sure what you are trying to say.  who are
indulging in trivialities?  those who are pointing out
that hindus ate beef or those who are trying to ignore
issue that the hindus ate beef?



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[Assam] beef-eating in india

[xourov pathok]

Ram Sarangapani wrote:

+  I really don't think mainstream Hindus have
+  any problem in this. Many Hindus recognize that
+  ancient Hindus supposedly did eat beef. Who is 
+  trying
+  to hide this fact? Most Hindus don't care one way
+  or
+  the other about this. The fact that some in the
+  education department now or in previous BJP govt.
+  tried to rewrite some textbooks has little
+  relevance
+  to mainstream Hindus.

this is not entirely true.  beef-eating is a big issue
in india.  as far as i know, beef and beef-products
are banned in many states in india.  there was a move
to ban cow slaughter at the union level (which would
have affected meghalaya too).  i don't know whether
this is law today.  nevertheless, it is interesting
that the present anti-cow slaughter movement is a
recent phenomenon.

d h jha, a history prof from delhi university, wrote a
book.  he had to ask for police security because of
threats.  his article here is more readable than his
book:

http://www.indowindow.com/sad/article.php?child=17&article=11

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[Assam] a stranger discovers the bodo language

[xourov pathok]

i have heard it being said that bodo is one of the
most expressive languages.  here, a stranger discovers
it from a dusty book in a library:

http://www.lostmag.com/issue4/verbs.php

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[Assam] Two articles from Sanjib Baruah

[xourov pathok]

Here are two articles on the elections. Kindly post
them. Thanks

SB

Times of India June 1st 2006
http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Repository/ml.asp?Ref=Q0FQLzIwMDYvMDYvMDEjQXIwMjYwMA==&Mode=HTML&Locale=english-skin-custom

Minority Report
Impact of Assam polls on Muslim politics

By SANJIB BARUAH

It is a myth that Muslims vote for the Congress
because of its secular credentials. Minority prudence
has always been a factor. Muslims have often voted
strategically for the most likely winner. The
phenomenon hides a dark side of our democracy.
Security of life and property should be a universal
public good. It has become a private good that
political parties provide selectively in exchange for
political support. Voting to ensure ones physical
security erodes the meaning of citizenship.

  Security is a major reason why Muslims of
East Bengali descent have traditionally voted for the
Congress in Assam. The emergence of the Assam United
Democratic Front (AUDF) signals the desire to reject
that dependency. Liberal democrats should welcome the
assertion of a confident political voice by a
minority. It is not surprising that such a party
should come up in Assam. Nearly 31 per cent of Assams
population of 26.6 million is Muslim, according to the
2001 census. This is second only to Jammu and Kashmirs
and is about the same as the proportion of Muslims in 
undivided India.

  The AUDF, however, is not conceived as a
Muslim party. It put up a number of non-Muslim
candidates. But central to the success of all AUDF 
candidates was Badruddin Ajmals resources and support
among Muslims. For instance, Dimasa candidate Aditya
Langthasa is a doctor at Hojais impressive Ajmal Majid
Memorial Charitable Hospital funded by Ajmal. It used
to be said that all politics is local. In these times,
all politics may also be global.

  Ajmal is a small-town boy with a global
business empire. He is extremely well connected to
Islamic circles in India and abroad. This explains why
the imam of Jama Masjid campaigned so actively in this
election. While dissatisfaction with the Congress
following the courts invalidation of the IMDT law may
have precipitated Ajmals decision to launch AUDF, his
political optic and track record have never been
local. The foundation of Ajmals global business empire
is the aromatic bark that the Assamese call agaru or
agar. For much longer than oil and tea, demand for
agar has shaped Assams economic and political
fortunes. Agarbatti is made from it and oil extracted
from agar is the base for many attars and perfumes. It
is said that Mughals invaded Assam for the lure of
agar.

  The Rs 30 crore of his reported wealth that
made Ajmal the richest candidate in Assam is only a
small part of his global worth. The oil boom in the
Middle East raised the demand for agar enormously.
Ajmals once sleepy little hometown Hojai  the agar
capital of the world  shows the impact of that boom.
His Dubai-based Ajmal Group of Companies boasts of a
network of shops and distribution outlets in Bahrain,
Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the UAE. Ajmal
Perfumes produces attars and fragrances that sell not
only in India and Middle Eastern countries, it has 
different lines of perfumes for African and East
European markets as well. The House of Ajmal has
showrooms and production units in Mumbai.

  Businessman-politician Ajmal is also Maulana
Badruddin Ajmal Al-Qasmi. He is a member of the
Majlis-e-Shura of his alma mater Darul Uloom, Deoband,
and a major benefactor of the institution. He has been
on the frontline of the defence of the embattled
Deobandi madrassas in the post-9/11 environment.
Deoband has now opened a department of English
language and literature on Ajmals initiative. Ajmal is
founderchairman of the Markazul Maarif (centre for
knowledge). It has introduced a highly competitive
two-year training programme in English language and 
computers for top madrassa graduates. According to a
report by a sympathetic observer, With flowing beards
and traditional madrassa dress of kurta and  pyjama
not lower than ankles, these young people flaunt
fluent English and etiquette believed to be
prerogative of only people with a public school 
background. Countering the turbaned and bearded hordes
image of the madrassa-educated men is clearly a goal
of this ambitious programme.

  Markazul Maarif is also a publishing house.
Among its publications is a short history of Deoband.
In Ajmals introduction he talks about Islam being the
most misunderstood religion and rejects the
fashionable distinction between fundamentalist and
Sufi Islam, one being bad and the other good. To
readers of Barbara Metcalf s classic study Islamic
Revival in British India: Deoband, 1860-1900 this
would be a familiar theme. The original Deobandis,
according to Metcalf, offered a composite form of
religious leadership and were simultaneously ulama and
Sufis. Ajmal heads the Assam unit of the
Jamait-Ulema-e-Hind  hardly surp

[Assam] places

[xourov pathok]

since my geography is very poor, i always wonder where
a particular place in assam is.  so i copied a
solution:

http://www.geocities.com/xourov/pp.html

have fun.  zoom in and try to figure out the landmarks
in guwahati---dighali pukhuri, gandhi mandap etc.  

the standard disclaimers apply.

xourov

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[Assam] Of Temple Terror - Sentinel letter - ritual killings of animals

[xourov pathok]

Umesh Sharma wrote:

> It is believed by many that these Muslims are always

> ready to fight because of two things - or three .
> One is that they have a festival of Muharram --
where
> they inflict pain upon themselves - making
themselves
> impervious to pain.

it is generally seen that smaller groups that feel
threathened by larger groups go to extraordinary
lengths to display their loayality.  it helps to keep
loyalties. it is likely that the shia, who celebrate
muharram, are the smaller group that have to keep
themselves intact against the larger sunni group.

the pain in muharram is not islam specific.  similar
display of pain exists in hindu groups, for example in
malaysia.  here are some photos of the thaipusam
festival and i am sure you will see the parallel with
muharram:

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=571037

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Re: [Assam] caste system

[xourov pathok]

--- Rajib Das <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Some responses to the points you have made:
> 
> 1. As per my readings, earlier it used to be called
> just Dharma (not Varnashrama Dharma) and Dharma
> became
> Sanatana Dharma later when other religions came
> about
> on Indian soil which are also essentially Dharmic in
> origin. I haven't really found a reference to the
> whole of Hinduism being represented as Varnashrama
> Dharma anywhere. 

dharma is a general term that roughly means "duty"
(set of prescribed conduct leading to release from
life-death).  it does not signify any particular duty,
so it does not signify any particular religion. it has
been used by religions other than hinduism (eg
buddhism).  If it implied hinduism in particular,
buddhism would not have used it.

even if we ignored the other religions, dharma on its
own does not specify the hindu religion.  this is
because there are 4 different sets of dharmas for the
4 different varnas.  to specify the religion, you need
to specify the system that binds these different
dharmas together.  which is varnashrama.

"sanatana" means eternal.  so you are right, it was
another appelation used to emphasize the point that
Hinduism had no beginning, unlike say Jainism and
Buddhism.  It was the original religion.

> 
> 2. No doubt - Manusmriti is where the Varnas are
> codified into an unjust social order. But Manusmriti
> came much much later and was not a part of the
> original scriptures - those that ONLY some consider
> as
> infallible in Hinduism. Manusmriti can be thrown
> away
> very easily. And that is where my questions were
> regarding what exactly did you find in the original
> scriptures (the Rig Veda if you may) regarding a
> hereditary system of Varna. And how much does it
> impact the core essence of Hinduism.  
> 

according to accepted dates, the manusrimiti is closer
to the vedas in time than it is to the present. 
nevertheless, you will not find a pure original state
between the vedic and the manu times.  your
originalist attempt will therefore give you only half
a desired result and your choices will reflect your
present needs, not original edicts from the past.

i am actually not surprised that you want to just make
the varna system non-hereditary, and not remove the
varna system entirely. 


> 3. The fight for Dalits and Tribals is one of the
> many
> elements of the interest in throwing Varna out.
> There
> are others such as OBCs, SCs and in certain regions
> even Brahmins that clamor for change. By itself it
> is
> a noble enough cause for which there would be
> transformation. In fact, the VHP's highly successful
> strategy in the tribal belt of Gujarat is about 2/3
> things: Social Welfare, a non-Varna system and the
> restoration of the village deities. Is there
> anything
> wrong with the whole idea?
> 

this is primarily a political issue.  a few decades
ago, there were anti-dalit riots in gujarat which
basically led to the KHAM electoral alliance and
decades of congress rule.  what the vhp was able to do
was turn some in the KHAM against the others.  the
muslims had protected the dalits from the rioters
then, but in the post-godhra riots, the dalits and the
adivasis turned against the muslims.  also, it turned
the fortune of the bjp party, which was reeling after
the cooperative bank scams.

so are you asking whether the "gujarat experiment",
which climaxed with the post-godhra riots, is wrong?


> I am not convinced with what has been presented that
> the Varna system as defined in the original
> scriptures
> (and NOT Manusmriti) is the most defining aspect of
> Hinduism. I am not convinced also that if the Varna
> system is thrown out or modified it will result in
> contradictions in the essence of Hinduism coming to
> the fore. My questions really was about addressing
> this point - not about whether in my personal
> capacity
> I am a Hindu or not.


its fine if you aren't convinced.  whatever makes you
happy :)

xourov


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Re: [Assam] caste system

[xourov pathok]

--- Rajib Das <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Here are a few questions. Hopefully you guys can
> answer:
>

many of the questions you ask can be encapsulated into
"why am i a hindu?"  i leave those questions alone,
because those are personal questions which every man
has to answer for himself.  i am merely adding my
comments to only the varna related parts.  

here i would like to point out that a critical (that
is objective, not antagonistic) look at religions is
not equivalent to challenging either their value
systems or questioning anyone's personal religious
choices.   


 
> 1. Is Varnashrama Dharma really the original name of
> Hinduism or is it Sanatana Dharma?
> 

sanatana dharma is a later concept that incorporates
many other aspects of hinduism, including that of
varnashram dharma.

"sanatana dharma" never became a popular name for the
religion.  though it is an older name, i would guess
that it became more widely used in the 19th century as
a result of the many hindu reformist movements in that
period.


> 2. Does Varnashrama Dharma refer specifically to and
> only to the 4 castes and the 4 ashramas - or does it
> posit on a bigger spiritual and philosophical
> canvas?

varnashram dharma sets down the duties for the 4
castes with, of course, some spiritual and
philosophical justifications.  the gita is one example
but the best exposition is manusmriti.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/manu.htm

the dalits  do not fall anywhere in the varna system. 
whereas many ethnic groups were accepted into the
varna system, the dalits were very strongly kept away.
 even though the buddha (whose religion posed the
greatest threat to hinduism at one time) was later
inducted into the pantheon of vishnu avatars, the
dalits were vehemently rejected.  

the dalits today are as large as the muslim population
in india and are an important component in the
hindutva politics.  the animosity against the
christians is essentially rooted in the battle over
the dalits and the tribals.  this explains the new
interest in dumping the varna system from hinduism.


> 2. Varna finds its mention in the Rig Veda all
> right.
> But do the Vedas themselves specify that the Varnas
> are defined by birth? Or did it come much later with
> the likes of Manu? And if the Varna system were not
> to
> be defined by birth but by someone's desire, will
> and
> action, would it change anything in the way we
> percieve things about Hinduism?


it is very likely that the varna system has always
been hereditary, because the main function of the
system was to put an order in the myriad jatis that
were entering it.  manusmriti (dated to 1st-2nd
century bc) tried to codify this order and give it a
rigidity.  the gita, which came earlier, already
prescribed an evolved concept of the varna system as a
answer to some ills.

the varna system has become rigid, but it is not
absolute.  but what must be borne in mind is that it
operates not on individuals but on jatis.  it is
probably easier to find a community (as opposed to an
individual) changing varna.  in more recent times when
shivaji wanted to declare himself a king, the local
brahmins refused to anoint him because of his "lowly
origins".  shivaji then imported a brahman from
elsewhere who drew up an impressive lineage and
anointed him.  so along with shivaji, his community as
well as his ancestors became kshatriyas.  it is
possible to suspect that in such cases, if the
community does not display the characteristics of the
new varna over time it might relapse into the old
varna. 


> 
> 3. Does Hinduism (or if I may use the word Sanatana
> Dharma) specify clearly to the infallibility of the
> Vedas themselves in their entirety? Or is a Hindu
> allowed to reject certain tenets? 
> 
> 4. Does Hinduism (and do Hindus) leave the
> interpretation of the Vedas (or their religion
> itself)
> to be changed over time or by different scholars? 
> 
> 5. Is Varna the central tenet of Hinduism - more
> specifically, is it specified anywhere in the Vedas
> that a Hindu MUST believe in Varna? Even more
> specifically, exactly how many shlokas (or what
> percentage) of the Rig Veda mention Varna?
> 
> 6. Since Islam has always had a bloody history right
> from the time of when the transition of leadership
> was
> to happen from the prophet to his disciples and
> since
> it has enough mention in the Koran of killing of
> kufrs, should it be called "Unsalaam" or something
> and
> should Muslims reject Islam in its entirety?
> 
> 7. Should Christianity with its reference to
> slavery,
> keep continuing to celebrate slavery - after all it
> was ONE of the tenets expounded in the Bible and
> therefore you cannot ignore it and ipso facto, a
> Christian must reject the Bible in its entirety?
>


the case here is different.  the claim is that the
varna system *is* the most defining aspect of hinduism
(sanatana dharma if you will).  it defines who is a
hindu and who is not.  you can get away with being an
athiest 

[Assam] caste system

[xourov pathok]

a short note on the caste system:

the varna system, which found its first mention in the
rig veda itself, has been the only unbroken tradition
of hinduism.  gods have come and gone (from indra to
rudra to krishna), forms of worship has changed (from
yajnas to puja) but the varna system has persisted. 
there is an oft repeated dictum, that hinduism did not
have a name for itself earlier.  this is not true. 
the name of the religion was varnashram dharma.  the
varna system is the most defining aspect of hinduism.

another dictum is that it divides.  this also is
untrue.  in fact the varna system makes it possible
for a jati to place itself in a readymade order.  this
is important because there is no personal conversion
system in hinduism.  instead entire jatis are
converted (by placing them in the varna system), like
the scythians and the koches were made hindus by
placing them in the kshatriya varna.  this is
important.  because it lets, say, a sarma or a barua
from assam relate in a some meaningful way with a
aiyar or an iyengar from tamil nadu.

since the varna system is the most defining aspect of
hinduism, how can you remove or reform it out of the religion?

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[Assam] HPI

[xourov pathok]

> I will have to read the verse in detail. I think
> Krishna states bothways:
>
> Those who are born out of my head are the 
> Brahmins
> Those who are born out of my shoulder, are
> the Kshatriyas.
> Those who are born out of my stomach are the
> Vaishya.
> Those who are born out of my feet are the Sudras.

the above comes from the purusa sukta of the rig veda.
 this is the earliest reference to the varna system.

it is significant that this section comes from the
portion of the rig veda that was composed the last. 
the earlier portions were attributed to different
sages and their clans.  the later portions are not. 
this might mean that different clans were coming
together in the rig vedic times under a common order. 
the order is varnashram dharma.

and the gita is the most emphatic statement on the
varna system.  whereas the rest of the mahabharata is
largely irreligious, gita is not.  the basic statement
gita makes is: you may have moral and ethical dilemmas
but they pale in the face of the varnashram dharma. 
if you are a kshatriya it is your duty to fight, even
though in that fight you will kill your own kin.  the
gita places varna above all else.





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Re: [Assam] ahom and buranji

[xourov pathok]

> 
> rajen-da,
> 
> yes, it was indeed written by atan burhagohain.  at
> least that is the accepted fact.  so it was written
> in
> the 17th century.
>

i should be more clear.  only the bahgarhia buranji is
written by atan burhagohain.  the deodhai oxom buranji
is written by someone else.

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Re: [Assam] ahom and buranji

[xourov pathok]

--- Rajen Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Xourov:
> Great!
> Does that 'Dewdhai oxom Buronji' by Aton Buragohai
> tells when it might have
> been written? Was it by Aton Buragoahin himself? And
> can you tell us by
> reading the Buronji how the name of Assam is
> referred as in the Buronji? I
> mean how is it spelled in Assamese, is it Oxom,
> Axam, Acham or Ochom, if
> ever it is mentioned? My prediction is that it will
> be spelled as Acham (ie
> Ah+ Prothom SO + MO) by I may be wrong.
> Rajen Barua

rajen-da,

yes, it was indeed written by atan burhagohain.  at
least that is the accepted fact.  so it was written in
the 17th century.

i shall have to check for the spelling of assam.  i
shall guess that it was not consistent.  you might
notice that there are two spellings for ahom (aahwm
and aahaam) in the pages given here.  the aahaam could
be a variation of aaxaam or aasaam though.  

the "deodhai oxom buranji" was first published in
"orunudoi" in a serial over a few years(?).  the one
that is published by the deparment of historical and
antiquarian studies (this one) which is a combination
of the published one and another one found with
someone.  the bahgarhia burhagohain buranji (and a few
others) are supplementary buranjis in this collection.


i have seen a copy of the orunudoi that carried one of
the deodhai episodes.  it had an article on the
niagara falls, with a pen drawing!

xourov

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[Assam] ahom and buranji

[xourov pathok]

> 1. What is the origin of the name "Ahom" that
> is ascribed to the group of people who came from
> northern Burma and were part of the "Shan" ( did
> they pronounce it as Shan?) tribe before they
> entered Assam ?

dilip-da,

yasmin saikia of univ of north carolina claims that
the  word "ahom" in the buranjis did not denote an
ethnic group, but the offical-dom of the ahom state.
(http://www.india-seminar.com/2005/550/550%20yasmin%20saikia.htm)
 
as for buranjis, you might find the first few pages of
the bahgarhia burhagohain buranji (by atan
burhagohain) interesting.
http://www.geocities.com/xourov/bbb4.pdf
(from "deodhai oxom buranji" s k bhuyan edited)

xourov



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[Assam] online english-assamese dictionary

[xourov pathok]

> Dear All,   
  
  
> Finally I could store information in Assamese
> in a relational database and retrieve them in
> a website dynamically using ASP. The result is
> a baby step towards an Online English-Assamese
> Dictionary. Nevertheless, I believe it is first
> time. Check it out !!!  

> http://www.baruah.in/assamese/word_search.htm   
  
  
  
  

> In case, you can not see the Assamese fonts,
> you can try out the steps shown in
> http://www.baruah.in/assamese/asunicode.htm 
 
  
  

> Regards,
  
  
> Bikram  
  
  
  
  

> Bikram M. Baruah
  
  
> PO-45481
  
  
> Abu Dhabi, UAE

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[Assam] some stuff for himendra-da

[xourov pathok]

Himendra Thakur said:

> The jailed British historian David Irving's 
> opinion that "most Jews died of diseases 
> during World War II" sounds very similar 
> to what one correspondent said in Assamnet 
> implicitly absolving the Islamic invaders 
> of any responsibility of Hindu women's death 
> in Jauhar Vrata, because, according to this
> correspondent, Hindus killed their own wives
> and daughters as a "scorched earth policy". 
> This correspondent did neither furnish any 
> evidence nor did he state whether the scenario
> was his assumption. Under what circumstances a
> man kills his own daughter and wife instead of
> protecting them?

dear himendra-da:

in c1298, the bhati rajputs in jaisalmer were
surrounded by ulugh khan.  the bhati rajputs were on
the trade route and they lived off taxing the
caravans, sometimes attacking them.  the foolhardy
bhati rajputs once made off with the khilji caravan
belonging to the delhi sultanate, and as a result they
were surrounded.  according to the rajput ballads the
seize lasted for 7 years and the bhati rajputs saw no
escape.  the rawal consulted the elders and this is
what they decided: the women and children were put to
death, by fire or sword (jauhar) and then the men put
on ceremonial dresses and opium-intoxicated, opened
the gates and rushed out to a heroic deaths (shaka).

that was probably one of the first instances of
jauhar.  the scorched earth policy is staring you
right in the face and the story is a part of the
rajput lore.  

it might interest you that the bhati rawal's children
did not die in that jauhar.  they were spirited out,
and lived to reclaim jaisalmer later.  there is an
amusing anecdote associated with how they might have
survived.

in c1634, jujhar singh bundela was trying to escape
the wrath of the mughal emperor shah jahan.  he did
not have time to set the women-folk on fire, so he put
some of them to the sword.  he was finally killed,
though.  there are accounts of this incident too.

as time went on, the system of jauhar took on
sati-like characteristics.  some later rajput kings
had their queens, concubines and slave-girls immolated
at their funerals (17th century).  these incidents too
are very well documented.  

you might also reflect a little on the origin of the
word jauhar.  it is said to come from the word
jatugriha---a house of lac.  the imagery is---the
women and children are put in a house, which is then
sealed and put to fire.  

if you need more pointers, you only need to ask.  this
"correspondent" is always happy to oblige!

-xourov
post-script: care must be taken when we discuss
incidents of the past that seem to come into conflict
with contemporary sensibilities.  if we offer
judgements, we lose objectivity.  what the rajputs or
other demographic groups did in the past should not be
held against them in the present.  no group, ethnic or
religious, is collectively responsible today for
incidents in the past.


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[Assam] two editorials

[xourov pathok]

two editorials appeared in the telegraph on the same
day, on feb 13, 2006. 

one was about some calcutta policemen harrassing a
couple from bangalore.  this is what it had to say:
"Such an orchestrated offence, involving more than one
policeman, calls for a far more immediate and
unsparing response because it points towards a
systemic problem within the police force."
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1060213/asp/opinion/story_5837655.asp

even as the first editorial was so clear-headed, the
second was strained and difficult, as it tries to
convince us to ignore the death of ajit mahanta.
"For the dialogue aims at a much larger goal and
should not be the casualty of isolated incidents,
however unhappy."
http://www.telegraphindia.com/1060213/asp/opinion/story_5837488.asp

the police harrassment in calcutta is a "systematic
problem" but the death of ajit mahanta was an
"isolated incident".  the contrast is remarkable.

xourov

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Re: [Assam] Threat to the assamese

[xourov pathok]

santanu-da,

there is a basic difference---the more we use natural
resources, the more we need to worry about
replenishing it; whereas the more we use use social
artifacts, the more we are conserving them!!

i believe what you are trying to hand down are the
values you attach to laru-pitha.  this, as you pointed
out, is impossible.  what you could do instead is let
others (kids, others) *participate* in what is
valuable to *you* and let them assign their own values
to it.  that is, if laru-pitha is important to you,
let the kids know it, and let them just participate in
the rituals without suffocating in your values.

take this for example:
http://www.shirky.com/writings/lutefisk.html

it is hard to imagine a norwegian kid say at the
dinner table: "yuck, mommy, vegetables again?  i want
lutefisk!"  and yet, they grow up and have
lutefisk...once a year in their adult life!!  they
grow to see some value in a poisonous dish! (btw,
given a chance, i would eat lutefisk too, at least for
once.)

so i do not see it as a problem like the way you do. 
and i hope you see what exactly i meant by the
"personal". 

saurav

 

--- "Roy, Santanu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Saurav: 
> 
> Thanks for explaining. But based on what I know of
> you, I am not quite sure that personal sentiments
> are the only reason why YOU care about these issues.
> I may be wrong - but you probably see a future
> social value to conservation.  
> 
> You see, I wrote about this because I see it as a
> vexing problem. 
> 
> The current generation values certain attributes and
> wants to conserve it for the benefit of future
> generations. But the preferences of the future
> generations may be very different and are partly
> determined by how the current generation influences
> social change.
> 
> Take the case of the natural environment. The case
> for conserving the natural environment is the value
> it will yield to future generations. Because we know
> they will value it. To not conserve, would hurt them
> (based on all current conception of what they and
> their world will be like). 
> 
> If you want to extend the same argument to cultural
> attributes (including language, religion etc) - it
> gets a bit dicey. It is qite possible and likely
> that a future generation may assign no value (apart
> from historical curiosity) to such objects. So when
> we ask for conservation, we also implicitly ask that
> social change ought to occur in such a way that the
> future generations will actually value what we want
> to conserve - in some sense, they should be somewhat
> like us. This is a much more difficult proposition. 
> 
> If we believe, the future generation will not care
> about laru pitha, then it is rational for us to
> actually not impart the skill of making laru pithas
> to our progenies. But because we do not teach our
> progenies how to make laru pitha or to value them,
> they will not value it. Thus, the disappearance of
> laru pitha becomes a self-fulilling conjecture. 
> 
> On the other hand, if we collectively modifed
> current society and not only taught our children to
> make laru pithas but also created the kind of social
> transition that allows the making and eating of laru
> pithas to flourish in the future, the value we place
> on conserving laru pithas fr the future could also
> be self-fulfilling. 
> 
> Is one self-fulfilling conjecture better than the
> other from a social point of view? I don't know.
> 
> All I know is that it is probably in this context,
> that one must understand the historical role of
> conservationists of socio-cultural attrbutes. 
> 
> Sorry, I am not being very articulate. More later.
> Take care -
> 
> Santanu-da. 
> 
> Santanu-da. 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: xourov pathok [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Sun 1/29/2006 2:44 PM
> To: Roy, Santanu; assam@assamnet.org
> Subject: RE: Threat to the assamese
>  
> 
> 
> "Roy, Santanu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Saurav: 
> I understand. But quite apart from the context in
> which this discussion arose - let us for a moment
> suppose that Bihu simply degenerates into a holiday
> - an excuse for urban young people to get drunk,
> play hindi music etc. In the extreme, lets suppose
> it simply disappears - no memory whatsover. For that
> matter lets suppose, all of the traditional
> festivals of all the people disappear. Would it
> imply that the people have lost themselves? Or that
> society has simply evolved that new festivals and
> new traditions grounded in the current social
> reality of the people have emerged. And in that
> changed reality, there will be a new perception of
> the people about their past tha

Re: [Assam] Threat to the assamese

[xourov pathok]

"Roy, Santanu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Saurav: I understand. But quite apart from the context in which this discussion arose - let us for a moment suppose that Bihu simply degenerates into a holiday - an excuse for urban young people to get drunk, play hindi music etc. In the extreme, lets suppose it simply disappears - no memory whatsover. For that matter lets suppose, all of the traditional festivals of all the people disappear. Would it imply that the people have lost themselves? Or that society has simply evolved that new festivals and new traditions grounded in the current social reality of the people have emerged. And in that changed reality, there will be a new perception of the people about their past that will allow them to alter the essence of what it means to be an Assamese. Hundred years from now, a new
 Xourav will be identifying threats to Assamese culture thar you - saurav - would consider to be sacrilege - will be fighting to defend a new language - that you might consider entirely alien today.Santanu-da.santanu-da,  you know the answer to this as well as i do.  it would by no means imply that the people have lost themselves.  they would have have simply moved on.  and indeed a new xourov would be listing the new threats to assamese society!!  but you should be able to differentiate between two aspects of the issue.  the objective reality---which is what i tried to portray, and the value of the of the cultural artifacts to me, personally.  they are two different things.  you know it, as well as i do.  in one you attach a personal value, in the other you don't.  somehow, the personal value provides a momentum, to sustain it in one form or the other.  and as you mentioned in reply to
 utpal-da's mail, this is a natural tendency.  saurav
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[Assam] Threat to the assamese

[xourov pathok]

+  Dear Saurav:  
     So much of what one might think of as "bigger challenges to the Assamese today" depends on what one views as being the essence of Assamese society. It does make sense to step back and think whether the search for this essence does not lead to simple yearning for a mythical golden past or some attempt to
 turn back the clock of history and social "progress".     santanu-da,    
    i said what i did in the context of this particular debate---to demostrate the challenges faced by assamese society today in contrast to himendra-da's description.  because he used the word assamese.   i have been very careful in making sure that these do not depend on "mythical golden" pasts.   they are based on pasts, definitely (golden or not), which are
 defnitely not mythical.    for example, i have talked about cultural artifacts, like the bihu, and give its ownership to no one in particular.  because historically bihu itself is the confluence of many traditions, modified and adapted for use by people,  adapted by the  young  men and women (mukoli bihu), by the ahom swargadeos (rang ghar) and by lay communities (husori), ethnic communities (mising bihu) and lately the urban folk (bihu on stage).   it is said historically, the ahoms appropriated it from the chutia kingdom.   therefore, instead of looking back  at a  mythical golden past and trying to take bihu back, i ask: where does bihu go from here?  i hope you see where my emphasis lie.  saurav 
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