Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.....casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussions
Rajen-da,I am sitting in USA and the Hindu scriptures are somewhere deep in India . Anyhow my point is oral tradition is in all religions and no religion before about 1000 CE can rightly say that their religious book is what was said by their prophet --since before that time there were no books !!!No books so no authenticity of religious texts. Which book has God's word -- you tell me!!!Books are written by man -- truth is around us.UmeshBarua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Umesh: I congratulate in your endeavor. This may give you an opportunity to acquaint yourself with the Hindu scriptures. But remember the saying, 'the devil is in the details'.One way to simplify your job is by process of elimination. I would suggest you find one single Hindu scriptures out of the myriads and try to establish the historicity.That will serve a solid purpose instead of speaking in generality. Or if you find any book which has established such historicity please let me know. Rajen da- Original Message - From: umesh sharma To: Barua25 ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; assam@assamnet.org Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussionsRajen-da,I just sawthe museum's exhibit this weekend and so takingme time to make comparisons. One thing which struck me was that even in Christianity most priests and missionaries relied on oral tradition to transmit the tales and teachings over centuries since books or even paper was nearly non-existent at the time of Christ. some used wooden boards and leafs to write on (like Indians). Thus, the Hindu scriptures tell tales of much earlier period -so there were hardly any written material of that period .Books developed much later -and hence Bible (which is a collection of books) and Hindu scriptures etc were gathered fromdifferent sources and much recently declared and true and officially accepted copies.Hindu scriptures are much bigger - in more detail so cannot be compiled in a single book - unlike Christian and muslim or Jewish scriptures which are concise enough to put placed in a single book form.UmeshBarua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you then have a comarable collection of scripture book in Hinduism? Rajen da- Original Message - From: umesh sharma To: Barua25 ; assam@assamnet.org Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussionsBible is also a collection of hundreds of scriptures.UmeshBarua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Why I had gone to the museum was to see why Bible is considered real and Hindu scriptures are considered myths. After the trip they both seem to have evolved the same way ---collections of (real) stories from many story-tellers.Umesh: First, you are trying to compare the historicity of the Bible, the Book, against the historicity of the Hindu scriptures. But before you do that, I think you need to narrow your focus on a particular Hindu scripture as there are literally hundreds of Hindu scriptures and all of them are not supposed to be historical, some are purely philosophical. In my opinion what makes Bible the unique is that there are some records of writing which one can put a date scientifically. Question is does any Hindu scripture have any such records of writing that one can put a date? Historicity is determined by how many people actually recorded the event after it happened. Say in case of Rama, do we have any other record of writing other than that of Valmiki? Or do we find the same story in any other recording other than the Ramayana? You must be very objective in your research. Overall I think it will be a good excercise. Please keep us in the loop.PS: There is more to religion than book reading --anyone can become a scholar---was Jesus a scholar -or was Krishan one or was Guru Nanak one or same for Prophet Muhammad. According to Bertrand Russell, religion has not served any purpose in the world. According to me, it has at least served one purpose; it has contributed to the invention of writing and to the spread of language. So be careful, if you try to take away the reading books from reliogion, you will be left with nothing as Russel says.Rajen-da. - Original Message - From: umesh sharma To: Barua25 ; assam@assamnet.org Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussionsRajen-da,I was trying to bring out some good things about Christian faith --not denounce some negatives about Hindu faith. However, since you raise the issue I may point out that NO religion allows women priests --even now. No Pope or Shankaracharya or Imam or Chief Rabbiis a woman . Nonon-white guy has ever become a Pope
Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.....casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussions
Rajen-da,I just sawthe museum's exhibit this weekend and so takingme time to make comparisons. One thing which struck me was that even in Christianity most priests and missionaries relied on oral tradition to transmit the tales and teachings over centuries since books or even paper was nearly non-existent at the time of Christ. some used wooden boards and leafs to write on (like Indians).Thus, the Hindu scriptures tell tales of much earlier period -so there were hardly any written material of that period .Books developed much later -and hence Bible (which is a collection of books) and Hindu scriptures etc were gathered fromdifferent sources and much recently declared and true and officially accepted copies.Hindu scriptures are much bigger - in more detail so cannot be compiled in a single book - unlike Christian and muslim or Jewish scriptures which are concise enough to put placed in a single book form.UmeshBarua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you then have a comarable collection of scripture book in Hinduism? Rajen da- Original Message - From: umesh sharma To: Barua25 ; assam@assamnet.org Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussionsBible is also a collection of hundreds of scriptures.UmeshBarua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Why I had gone to the museum was to see why Bible is considered real and Hindu scriptures are considered myths. After the trip they both seem to have evolved the same way ---collections of (real) stories from many story-tellers.Umesh: First, you are trying to compare the historicity of the Bible, the Book, against the historicity of the Hindu scriptures. But before you do that, I think you need to narrow your focus on a particular Hindu scripture as there are literally hundreds of Hindu scriptures and all of them are not supposed to be historical, some are purely philosophical. In my opinion what makes Bible the unique is that there are some records of writing which one can put a date scientifically. Question is does any Hindu scripture have any such records of writing that one can put a date? Historicity is determined by how many people actually recorded the event after it happened. Say in case of Rama, do we have any other record of writing other than that of Valmiki? Or do we find the same story in any other recording other than the Ramayana? You must be very objective in your research. Overall I think it will be a good excercise. Please keep us in the loop.PS: There is more to religion than book reading --anyone can become a scholar---was Jesus a scholar -or was Krishan one or was Guru Nanak one or same for Prophet Muhammad. According to Bertrand Russell, religion has not served any purpose in the world. According to me, it has at least served one purpose; it has contributed to the invention of writing and to the spread of language. So be careful, if you try to take away the reading books from reliogion, you will be left with nothing as Russel says.Rajen-da. - Original Message - From: umesh sharma To: Barua25 ; assam@assamnet.org Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussionsRajen-da,I was trying to bring out some good things about Christian faith --not denounce some negatives about Hindu faith. However, since you raise the issue I may point out that NO religion allows women priests --even now. No Pope or Shankaracharya or Imam or Chief Rabbiis a woman . Nonon-white guy has ever become a Pope just as no non-Brahmin has ever beome a Shankaracharya.Why I had gone to the museum was to see why Bible is considered real and Hindu scriptures are considered myths. After the trip they both seem to have evolved the same way ---collections of (real) stories from many story-tellers.Umesh PS: There is more to religion than book reading --anyone can become a scholar---was Jesus a scholar -or was Krishan one or was Guru Nanak one or same for Prophet Muhammad.Barua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:HINDUS: Indians --Hindus esp were content in letting reading of scrptures be the game of a small coterie -- the so-called brahmin priests hence there was no thrust in promoting faith by educating followers to become literate so that they can read scriptures.This is correct, In fact the Hindus were trying to keep the religion of the Vedas very much secret from the public. Thus there was no incentive to evolve a writing method to record the Vedas which was handed over orally for many centuries. Even when writing was evolved, at the inspiration of the Buddhist, this written knowledge of the Vedas was kept as much secret as possible. First the Sudras and women were barred from raeding of the Vedas. Against this Hindu conservativenessm the Christians
Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.....casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussions
Sikhs have a different reason for Diwali celebration -- you know why? Umesh Dear Umesh, Please enlighten us -why. You do deserve to be a GURU-I mean it! mm From:umesh sharma [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To:Barua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED],assam@assamnet.orgSubject:Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussionsDate:Wed, 25 Oct 2006 20:05:50 +0100 (BST) Rajen-da, I just sawthe museum's exhibit this weekend and so takingme time to make comparisons. One thing which struck me was that even in Christianity most priests and missionaries relied on oral tradition to transmit the tales and teachings over centuries since books or even paper was nearly non-existent at the time of Christ. some used wooden boards and leafs to write on (like Indians). Thus, the Hindu scriptures tell tales of much earlier period -so there were hardly any written material of that period . Books developed much later -and hence Bible (which is a collection of books) and Hindu scriptures etc were gathered fromdifferent sources and much recently declared and true and officially accepted copies. Hindu scriptures are much bigger - in more detail so cannot be compiled in a single book - unlike Christian and muslim or Jewish scriptures which are concise enough to put placed in a single book form. UmeshBarua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you then have a comarable collection of scripture book in Hinduism? Rajen da - Original Message - From: umesh sharma To: Barua25 ; assam@assamnet.org Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussions Bible is also a collection of hundreds of scriptures. UmeshBarua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why I had gone to the museum was to see why Bible is considered real and Hindu scriptures are considered myths. After the trip they both seem to have evolved the same way ---collections of (real) stories from many story-tellers. Umesh: First, you are trying to compare the historicity of the Bible, the Book, against the historicity of the Hindu scriptures. But before you do that, I think you need to narrow your focus on a particular Hindu scripture as there are literally hundreds of Hindu scriptures and all of them are not supposed to be historical, some are purely philosophical. In my opinion what makes Bible the unique is that there are some records of writing which one can put a date scientifically. Question is does any Hindu scripture have any such records of writing that one can put a date? Historicity is determined by how many people actually recorded the event after it happened. Say in case of Rama, do we have any other record of writing other than that of Valmiki? Or do we find the same story in any other recording other than the Ramayana? You must be very objective in your research. Overall I think it will be a good excercise. Please keep us in the loop. PS: There is more to religion than book reading --anyone can become a scholar---was Jesus a scholar -or was Krishan one or was Guru Nanak one or same for Prophet Muhammad. According to Bertrand Russell, religion has not served any purpose in the world. According to me, it has at least served one purpose; it has contributed to the invention of writing and to the spread of language. So be careful, if you try to take away the reading books from reliogion, you will be left with nothing as Russel says. Rajen-da. - Original Message - From: umesh sharma To: Barua25 ; assam@assamnet.org Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussions Rajen-da, I was trying to bring out some good things about Christian faith --not denounce some negatives about Hindu faith. However, since you raise the issue I may point out that NO religion allows women priests --even now. No Pope or Shankaracharya or Imam or Chief Rabbiis a woman . Nonon-white guy has ever become a Pope just as no non-Brahmin has ever beome a Shankaracharya. Why I had gone to the museum was to see why Bible is considered real and Hindu scriptures are considered myths. After the trip they both seem to have evolved the same way ---collections of (real) stories from many story-tellers. Umesh PS: There is more to religion than book reading --anyone can become a scholar---was Jesus a scholar -or was Krishan one or was Guru Nanak one or same for Prophet Muhammad.Barua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HINDUS: Indians --Hindus esp were content in letting reading of scrptures be the game of a small coterie -- the so-called brahmin priests hence there was no thrust in promoting faith by educating followers to become literate so that they can read scriptures. This is correct, In fact the Hindus were trying to keep the religion of the Vedas very much secret from the public
Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.....casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussions
Umesh: I congratulate in your endeavor. This may give you an opportunity to acquaint yourself with the Hindu scriptures. But remember the saying, 'the devil is in the details'.One way to simplify your job is by process of elimination. I would suggest you find one single Hindu scriptures out of the myriads and try to establish the historicity.That will serve a solid purpose instead of speaking in generality. Or if you find any book which has established such historicity please let me know. Rajen da - Original Message - From: umesh sharma To: Barua25 ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; assam@assamnet.org Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussions Rajen-da, I just sawthe museum's exhibit this weekend and so takingme time to make comparisons. One thing which struck me was that even in Christianity most priests and missionaries relied on oral tradition to transmit the tales and teachings over centuries since books or even paper was nearly non-existent at the time of Christ. some used wooden boards and leafs to write on (like Indians). Thus, the Hindu scriptures tell tales of much earlier period -so there were hardly any written material of that period . Books developed much later -and hence Bible (which is a collection of books) and Hindu scriptures etc were gathered fromdifferent sources and much recently declared and true and officially accepted copies. Hindu scriptures are much bigger - in more detail so cannot be compiled in a single book - unlike Christian and muslim or Jewish scriptures which are concise enough to put placed in a single book form. UmeshBarua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Do you then have a comarable collection of scripture book in Hinduism? Rajen da - Original Message - From: umesh sharma To: Barua25 ; assam@assamnet.org Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussions Bible is also a collection of hundreds of scriptures. UmeshBarua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why I had gone to the museum was to see why Bible is considered real and Hindu scriptures are considered myths. After the trip they both seem to have evolved the same way ---collections of (real) stories from many story-tellers. Umesh: First, you are trying to compare the historicity of the Bible, the Book, against the historicity of the Hindu scriptures. But before you do that, I think you need to narrow your focus on a particular Hindu scripture as there are literally hundreds of Hindu scriptures and all of them are not supposed to be historical, some are purely philosophical. In my opinion what makes Bible the unique is that there are some records of writing which one can put a date scientifically. Question is does any Hindu scripture have any such records of writing that one can put a date? Historicity is determined by how many people actually recorded the event after it happened. Say in case of Rama, do we have any other record of writing other than that of Valmiki? Or do we find the same story in any other recording other than the Ramayana? You must be very objective in your research. Overall I think it will be a good excercise. Please keep us in the loop. PS: There is more to religion than book reading --anyone can become a scholar---was Jesus a scholar -or was Krishan one or was Guru Nanak one or same for Prophet Muhammad. According to Bertrand Russell, religion has not served any purpose in the world. According to me, it has at least served one purpose; it has contributed to the invention of writing and to the spread of language. So be careful, if you try to take away the reading books from reliogion, you will be left with nothing as Russel says. Rajen-da. - Original Message - From: umesh sharma To: Barua25 ; assam@assamnet.org Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussions Rajen-da, I was trying to bring out some good things about Christian faith --not denounce some negatives about Hindu faith. However, since you raise the issue I may point out
Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.....casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussions
Umesh: Yet the most remarkable feature of the Bibl is its unity. The different books of the Bible were written over a period of at least 1200 years from ancient oral collections by a large number of diverse authors in several languages, Hebrew, Aramaic, Greek etc. Yet all bear witness fundamentally to the same understanding of the nature of God: a God who acts, God who redeems and God who gives hope. Compared to that, Hindu scriptures, all mostly written in the same language, are known for theirdiversity of gods and subjects andphilosophies often times which are 180 degree apart from each other. Thus the central theme of God itself is rather very much weakened in Hinduism and one has to search with arguments the real God.If Christianity can be said to be a river, Hinduism may be said to be an ocean which absorbs all. If Christianity may be compared to a single mango tree, Hinduism may be compared to a huge banyan tree where one cannot differentiate which is themain root and which are the branches touching the ground and shooting new roots. The above perspective may help you in your endeavor. Rajen-da - Original Message - From: umesh sharma To: Barua25 ; assam@assamnet.org Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussions Bible is also a collection of hundreds of scriptures. UmeshBarua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why I had gone to the museum was to see why Bible is considered real and Hindu scriptures are considered myths. After the trip they both seem to have evolved the same way ---collections of (real) stories from many story-tellers. Umesh: First, you are trying to compare the historicity of the Bible, the Book, against the historicity of the Hindu scriptures. But before you do that, I think you need to narrow your focus on a particular Hindu scripture as there are literally hundreds of Hindu scriptures and all of them are not supposed to be historical, some are purely philosophical. In my opinion what makes Bible the unique is that there are some records of writing which one can put a date scientifically. Question is does any Hindu scripture have any such records of writing that one can put a date? Historicity is determined by how many people actually recorded the event after it happened. Say in case of Rama, do we have any other record of writing other than that of Valmiki? Or do we find the same story in any other recording other than the Ramayana? You must be very objective in your research. Overall I think it will be a good excercise. Please keep us in the loop. PS: There is more to religion than book reading --anyone can become a scholar---was Jesus a scholar -or was Krishan one or was Guru Nanak one or same for Prophet Muhammad. According to Bertrand Russell, religion has not served any purpose in the world. According to me, it has at least served one purpose; it has contributed to the invention of writing and to the spread of language. So be careful, if you try to take away the reading books from reliogion, you will be left with nothing as Russel says. Rajen-da. - Original Message - From: umesh sharma To: Barua25 ; assam@assamnet.org Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussions Rajen-da, I was trying to bring out some good things about Christian faith --not denounce some negatives about Hindu faith. However, since you raise the issue I may point out that NO religion allows women priests --even now. No Pope or Shankaracharya or Imam or Chief Rabbiis a woman . Nonon-white guy has ever become a Pope just as no non-Brahmin has ever beome a Shankaracharya. Why I had gone to the museum was to see why Bible is considered real and Hindu scriptures are considered myths. After the trip they both seem to have evolved the same way ---collections of (real) stories from many story-tellers. Umesh PS: There is more to religion than book reading --anyone can become a scholar---was Jesus a scholar -or was Krishan one or was Guru Nanak one or same for Prophet Muhammad.Barua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HINDUS: Indians --Hindus esp were content in letting reading of scrptures be the game of a small coterie -- the so-called brahmin priests hence there was no thrust in promoting faith by educating followers to become literate so that they can read
Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.....casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussions
Bible is also a collection of hundreds of scriptures.UmeshBarua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Why I had gone to the museum was to see why Bible is considered real and Hindu scriptures are considered myths. After the trip they both seem to have evolved the same way ---collections of (real) stories from many story-tellers.Umesh: First, you are trying to compare the historicity of the Bible, the Book, against the historicity of the Hindu scriptures. But before you do that, I think you need to narrow your focus on a particular Hindu scripture as there are literally hundreds of Hindu scriptures and all of them are not supposed to be historical, some are purely philosophical. In my opinion what makes Bible the unique is that there are some records of writing which one can put a date scientifically. Question is does any Hindu scripture have any such records of writing that one can put a date? Historicity is determined by how many people actually recorded the event after it happened. Say in case of Rama, do we have any other record of writing other than that of Valmiki? Or do we find the same story in any other recording other than the Ramayana? You must be very objective in your research. Overall I think it will be a good excercise. Please keep us in the loop.PS: There is more to religion than book reading --anyone can become a scholar---was Jesus a scholar -or was Krishan one or was Guru Nanak one or same for Prophet Muhammad. According to Bertrand Russell, religion has not served any purpose in the world. According to me, it has at least served one purpose; it has contributed to the invention of writing and to the spread of language. So be careful, if you try to take away the reading books from reliogion, you will be left with nothing as Russel says.Rajen-da. - Original Message - From: umesh sharma To: Barua25 ; assam@assamnet.org Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussionsRajen-da,I was trying to bring out some good things about Christian faith --not denounce some negatives about Hindu faith. However, since you raise the issue I may point out that NO religion allows women priests --even now. No Pope or Shankaracharya or Imam or Chief Rabbiis a woman . Nonon-white guy has ever become a Pope just as no non-Brahmin has ever beome a Shankaracharya.Why I had gone to the museum was to see why Bible is considered real and Hindu scriptures are considered myths. After the trip they both seem to have evolved the same way ---collections of (real) stories from many story-tellers.Umesh PS: There is more to religion than book reading --anyone can become a scholar---was Jesus a scholar -or was Krishan one or was Guru Nanak one or same for Prophet Muhammad.Barua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:HINDUS: Indians --Hindus esp were content in letting reading of scrptures be the game of a small coterie -- the so-called brahmin priests hence there was no thrust in promoting faith by educating followers to become literate so that they can read scriptures.This is correct, In fact the Hindus were trying to keep the religion of the Vedas very much secret from the public. Thus there was no incentive to evolve a writing method to record the Vedas which was handed over orally for many centuries. Even when writing was evolved, at the inspiration of the Buddhist, this written knowledge of the Vedas was kept as much secret as possible. First the Sudras and women were barred from raeding of the Vedas. Against this Hindu conservativenessm the Christians as well as the Buddhists attitude was to propogate the Dharma to as many people as possible. Buddha's decree, like that of Jesus, was:"Go and tell the people about the Dharma". Along with Buddhism, and the Indian epic story Ramayana, the local languages were developed in many countries besides India. The Vedas on the other hand are still being recited in Sanskrit. Rajen Barua - Original Message - From: umesh sharma To: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 9:16 PM Subject: [Assam] Guru Granth.....casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussionsHi,Today went to see the exhibit - first of its kind --very long queue to enter--how the Bible (Christian religious book) evolved over the first 1000 years of the religion's origin. http://www.asia.si.edu/exhibitions/current/IntheBeginning.htmHow from the time of Dead Sea Scrolls (rolled paper) the book evolved into a modern style book form (evolving booktechnology) and how in the process of its propagation the missionaries even created alphabets (like for Armenian and Georgian) and helped define what books are today. Ofcourse, over time many new additions were there and some like one refering to Jesus as a teacher (Edgerton's book ?) were declare
Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.....casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussions
Do you then have a comarable collection of scripture book in Hinduism? Rajen da - Original Message - From: umesh sharma To: Barua25 ; assam@assamnet.org Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 8:53 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussions Bible is also a collection of hundreds of scriptures. UmeshBarua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why I had gone to the museum was to see why Bible is considered real and Hindu scriptures are considered myths. After the trip they both seem to have evolved the same way ---collections of (real) stories from many story-tellers. Umesh: First, you are trying to compare the historicity of the Bible, the Book, against the historicity of the Hindu scriptures. But before you do that, I think you need to narrow your focus on a particular Hindu scripture as there are literally hundreds of Hindu scriptures and all of them are not supposed to be historical, some are purely philosophical. In my opinion what makes Bible the unique is that there are some records of writing which one can put a date scientifically. Question is does any Hindu scripture have any such records of writing that one can put a date? Historicity is determined by how many people actually recorded the event after it happened. Say in case of Rama, do we have any other record of writing other than that of Valmiki? Or do we find the same story in any other recording other than the Ramayana? You must be very objective in your research. Overall I think it will be a good excercise. Please keep us in the loop. PS: There is more to religion than book reading --anyone can become a scholar---was Jesus a scholar -or was Krishan one or was Guru Nanak one or same for Prophet Muhammad. According to Bertrand Russell, religion has not served any purpose in the world. According to me, it has at least served one purpose; it has contributed to the invention of writing and to the spread of language. So be careful, if you try to take away the reading books from reliogion, you will be left with nothing as Russel says. Rajen-da. - Original Message - From: umesh sharma To: Barua25 ; assam@assamnet.org Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussions Rajen-da, I was trying to bring out some good things about Christian faith --not denounce some negatives about Hindu faith. However, since you raise the issue I may point out that NO religion allows women priests --even now. No Pope or Shankaracharya or Imam or Chief Rabbiis a woman . Nonon-white guy has ever become a Pope just as no non-Brahmin has ever beome a Shankaracharya. Why I had gone to the museum was to see why Bible is considered real and Hindu scriptures are considered myths. After the trip they both seem to have evolved the same way ---collections of (real) stories from many story-tellers. Umesh PS: There is more to religion than book reading --anyone can become a scholar---was Jesus a scholar -or was Krishan one or was Guru Nanak one or same for Prophet Muhammad.Barua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HINDUS: Indians --Hindus esp were content in letting reading of scrptures be the game of a small coterie -- the so-called brahmin priests hence there was no thrust in promoting faith by educating followers to become literate so that they can read scriptures. This is correct, In fact the Hindus were trying to keep the religion of the Vedas very much secret from the public. Thus there was no incentive to evolve a writing method to record the Vedas which was handed over orally for many centuries. Even when writing was evolved, at the inspiration of the Buddhist, this written knowledge of the Vedas was kept as much secret as possible. First the Sudras and women were barred from raeding of the Vedas. Against this Hindu conservativenessm the Christians as well as the Buddhists attitude was to propogate the Dharma to as many people as possible. Buddha's decree, like that of Jesus, was:"Go and tell the people about the Dharma". Along with Buddhism, and the Indian epic story Ramayana, the local languages were developed in many countries besides India. The Vedas on the other hand are still being recited in Sanskrit. R
Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.....casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussions
Why I had gone to the museum was to see why Bible is considered real and Hindu scriptures are considered myths. After the trip they both seem to have evolved the same way ---collections of (real) stories from many story-tellers. Umesh: First, you are trying to compare the historicity of the Bible, the Book, against the historicity of the Hindu scriptures. But before you do that, I think you need to narrow your focus on a particular Hindu scripture as there are literally hundreds of Hindu scriptures and all of them are not supposed to be historical, some are purely philosophical. In my opinion what makes Bible the unique is that there are some records of writing which one can put a date scientifically. Question is does any Hindu scripture have any such records of writing that one can put a date? Historicity is determined by how many people actually recorded the event after it happened. Say in case of Rama, do we have any other record of writing other than that of Valmiki? Or do we find the same story in any other recording other than the Ramayana? You must be very objective in your research. Overall I think it will be a good excercise. Please keep us in the loop. PS: There is more to religion than book reading --anyone can become a scholar---was Jesus a scholar -or was Krishan one or was Guru Nanak one or same for Prophet Muhammad. According to Bertrand Russell, religion has not served any purpose in the world. According to me, it has at least served one purpose; it has contributed to the invention of writing and to the spread of language. So be careful, if you try to take away the reading books from reliogion, you will be left with nothing as Russel says. Rajen-da. - Original Message - From: umesh sharma To: Barua25 ; assam@assamnet.org Sent: Monday, October 23, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: Re: [Assam] Guru Granth.casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussions Rajen-da, I was trying to bring out some good things about Christian faith --not denounce some negatives about Hindu faith. However, since you raise the issue I may point out that NO religion allows women priests --even now. No Pope or Shankaracharya or Imam or Chief Rabbiis a woman . Nonon-white guy has ever become a Pope just as no non-Brahmin has ever beome a Shankaracharya. Why I had gone to the museum was to see why Bible is considered real and Hindu scriptures are considered myths. After the trip they both seem to have evolved the same way ---collections of (real) stories from many story-tellers. Umesh PS: There is more to religion than book reading --anyone can become a scholar---was Jesus a scholar -or was Krishan one or was Guru Nanak one or same for Prophet Muhammad.Barua25 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: HINDUS: Indians --Hindus esp were content in letting reading of scrptures be the game of a small coterie -- the so-called brahmin priests hence there was no thrust in promoting faith by educating followers to become literate so that they can read scriptures. This is correct, In fact the Hindus were trying to keep the religion of the Vedas very much secret from the public. Thus there was no incentive to evolve a writing method to record the Vedas which was handed over orally for many centuries. Even when writing was evolved, at the inspiration of the Buddhist, this written knowledge of the Vedas was kept as much secret as possible. First the Sudras and women were barred from raeding of the Vedas. Against this Hindu conservativenessm the Christians as well as the Buddhists attitude was to propogate the Dharma to as many people as possible. Buddha's decree, like that of Jesus, was:"Go and tell the people about the Dharma". Along with Buddhism, and the Indian epic story Ramayana, the local languages were developed in many countries besides India. The Vedas on the other hand are still being recited in Sanskrit. Rajen Barua - Original Message - From: umesh sharma To: assam@assamnet.org Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2006 9:16 PM Subject: [Assam] Guru Granth.....casteism vs Bible, literacy IndustrialRevolution; development - Beyond discussions Hi, Today went to see the exhibit - first of its kind --very long queue to enter--how the Bible (Christian religious book) evolved over the first 1000 years of the religion's origin. http://www.asia.si.edu/exhibitions/current/IntheBeginning.htm How from the time of Dead Sea Scrolls (rolled paper) the book evolved into a modern style book form (evolving booktechnology) and how in the process of its propagation the missionaries even created alpha
