Re: [Asterisk-Users] An anniversary and a lament for FXOs
On Fri, 5 Nov 2004, Ryan Thrash wrote: What about an expensive Supermicro dual Xeon PCI-X system with 1GB ECC RAM and a hardware RAID controller (it was SATA, though)? Echo was noticeable even on SIP-to-SIP calls internally with the system, with all sorts fo tweaks to tx/rx gain. Supermicro, too. Oh yeah, and we were on a T1 PRI, which is not *supposed* to have echo. Unfortunately when I left the company, they finally replaced the phone system to get rid of the echo and customer complaints. The sip-sip echo sounds really strange. What was the audio path? phone-sip-asterisk-sip-phone or phone-sip-phone or some other path? A T1 connection just means that that particualr call leg does not introducce echo. The most common point to introduce echo is at a two wire last leg. A digital path is in effect a four wire leg - i.e. the receive and transmit paths are separate and can not leak into one another. If you are on a T1+sip all digital connection the *you* can still hear echos caused by your customers. If your customers still hear echos even though your path is fully digital the you may have an echo canceler somewhere in the path that actaully adds the echo. This can happen if the path characteristics change or if the echo canceler converges to an incorrect solution. Peter ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] An anniversary and a lament for FXOs
On Wed, 3 Nov 2004, Rich Adamson wrote: So, while I've posted with respect to FXOs previously, I must ask againwhat FXO interface device can anyone recommend from real experience? I'd have to agree with you 110%; exactly the same issues here over the past year. I've spent more money on digium cards then you have invested in your old system, tried the spa3000, and a few other external gateways. The external gateways are always far better then the digium/spa adapters, but most of them have other issues that preclude production use. The market space is absolutely wide open for a two-to-four port pstn adapter of some sort that actually works. As I'm sure you've seen over the last six months or so, the digium fxo cards (drivers) suffer from lots of different problems and no one seems to really care. As a non-programmer, I'm about to give up on those as I don't have the skills to attempt fixes, and opening bug reports seem to be totally ignored. Seems at least some of the issues relate to interrupt latency and/or pci controller problems with selected motherboards, however there hasn't been any realistic effort focused on identifying which boards are acceptable/unacceptable. Seems rather strange for a company that wants to finance the * project through sales of adapters to ignore the problems, but guess that's their call. Maybe I'm the exception to the rule, but I have X100P cards in several boxes and as long as I do a little tweaking to the Echo Cancellation, rxgain/txgain and other parameters in the zapata.conf, I've had great sucess with the cards. While I agree that the market is ripe for a multiport FXO card, I would not categorize the X100P cards as failures. Whenever I have opened bug reports on the Bug Tracker, I have had results. In many cases, the responses have been that I need to provide more detailed information, and if/how the problem is repeatable. On my side of the fence, I've done upwards of 200,000 minutes of calls over the past 8 months using X100P cards in my home and with some test servers at clients. That is an average of 400+ hours of calls / month. Through that time, I've only had to update Asterisk a couple of times and reboot the boxes a few times for updated kernels. Other than that, they have run without incident. The feedback that I have gotten from the users of these minutes is that the quality is as good as or better than their existing Key system. Conversely, I've had to restart a client's Pansonic Key system about 25 times in that same space. My own company has a Vodavi Starplus w/ External Datavoice Voicemail system. That has has to be restarted nearly twice a month, and it only seems to be getting worse. As far as Digium ignoring the problems, I'm going to call that a spade. I've called Digium with questions and problems on several occasions, most of which turn out to be MY issues, either through lack of configuration, or not clear understanding of what is required in the application of their products. They have gone above and beyond the call of duty for me, and personally I'm very grateful. Keep in mind that Asterisk is NOT for the feint of heart and is a pretty daunting system for the uninitiated. As for the Interrupt issues and PCI issues, Digium isn't really responsible for broken PCI busses. You need to be complaining to the manufacturer of the $35 motherboard for that. I do agree, however, that a community developed Hardware Compatibility List would be a good thing. -- Vice President of N2Net, a New Age Consulting Service, Inc. Company http://www.n2net.net Where everything clicks into place! KP-216-121-ST ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] An anniversary and a lament for FXOs
On November 5, 2004 12:25 pm, Greg Boehnlein wrote: While I agree that the market is ripe for a multiport FXO card, I would not categorize the X100P cards as failures. Whenever I have opened bug reports on the Bug Tracker, I have had results. In many cases, the responses have been that I need to provide more detailed information, and if/how the problem is repeatable. TDM404P is not a multiport FXO card? Throw two in a system for 8 ports, and beyond 8 ports you really should be considering a channel bank anyway. -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] An anniversary and a lament for FXOs
On Fri, Nov 05, 2004 at 12:35:37PM -0500, Andrew Kohlsmith said: On November 5, 2004 12:25 pm, Greg Boehnlein wrote: While I agree that the market is ripe for a multiport FXO card, I would not categorize the X100P cards as failures. Whenever I have opened bug reports on the Bug Tracker, I have had results. In many cases, the responses have been that I need to provide more detailed information, and if/how the problem is repeatable. TDM404P is not a multiport FXO card? Throw two in a system for 8 ports, and beyond 8 ports you really should be considering a channel bank anyway. Yeah, but unless you buy unsupported used stuff, you are talking somewhere around $2500 - 3000. If you are much over 8 FXO's, you should probably just use a PRI. Personally, I'd like to see a modular multi-port (6 to 8) IAXy using the same modules that work on the TDM4xx. I hate internal cards, and it would make Asterisk MUCH more portable. No driver or interrupt issues. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] An anniversary and a lament for FXOs
On November 5, 2004 01:08 pm, Walt Reed wrote: TDM404P is not a multiport FXO card? Throw two in a system for 8 ports, and beyond 8 ports you really should be considering a channel bank anyway. Yeah, but unless you buy unsupported used stuff, you are talking somewhere around $2500 - 3000. If you are much over 8 FXO's, you should probably just use a PRI. er yes you are right, sorry I flipped from FXO to FXS after that comma. :-) Personally, I'd like to see a modular multi-port (6 to 8) IAXy using the same modules that work on the TDM4xx. I hate internal cards, and it would make Asterisk MUCH more portable. No driver or interrupt issues. Yeah but then you'd have to bitch about cheap networking gear causing weird problems. :-) -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] An anniversary and a lament for FXOs
On Nov 5, 2004, at 11:25 AM, Greg Boehnlein wrote: As for the Interrupt issues and PCI issues, Digium isn't really responsible for broken PCI busses. You need to be complaining to the manufacturer of the $35 motherboard for that. I do agree, however, that a community developed Hardware Compatibility List would be a good thing. What about an expensive Supermicro dual Xeon PCI-X system with 1GB ECC RAM and a hardware RAID controller (it was SATA, though)? Echo was noticeable even on SIP-to-SIP calls internally with the system, with all sorts fo tweaks to tx/rx gain. Supermicro, too. Oh yeah, and we were on a T1 PRI, which is not *supposed* to have echo. Unfortunately when I left the company, they finally replaced the phone system to get rid of the echo and customer complaints. A motherboard list would be REALLY great, indeed. Best regards, Ryan Thrash ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] An anniversary and a lament for FXOs
Michael The problem lies not with Asterisk or the cards but with the combination of voip and analogue telephony in general. I can guarantee that you will have very similar echo when you connect your Panasonic pbx to the analogue lines. In fact, your echo will most likely be worse. It is just that you do not perceive it as echo because it occurs more or less coincident with the original sound. However, the propagation delay through the systems that is introduced by Asterisk and voip (by necessity and design) is the culprit, because this adds the delay which causes the echo to become perceptable. You will never get a match good enough to eliminate echo. What you may be able to do is to get a match that is good enough to allow the built-in echo cancellers to be effective. You don't say where you hear the echo - near end or far end? A small diagram of your system posted on your web site, with an indication of who hears the echo and which echo they are hearing would help me (or countless others!) to help you work this out. I am using 2 X100P cards here in the UK connected to extension ports of a Panasonic KXT616 and we get no perceptable echo at all. Good luck! Rgds Tim Robinson -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 03 November 2004 15:14 To: Asterisk Group Subject: [Asterisk-Users] An anniversary and a lament for FXOs This week marks one year since I first setup an Asterisk server in the hopes of transitioning my home office to a total VoIP system. The process has been an incredible learning experience. I've tried numerous IP hard phones, eventually settling upon the Polycom IP600 as my choice. I've also used multiple ATAs including all the Sipura products. Using Asterisk has been a challenge, a thrill and (when its working) a joy. However, the one thing that I am not satisfied with is the performance of the FXO interfaces that bring in my PSTN lines. I've tried X100p cards but found them horribly unreliable. I presently use Sipura SPA-3000s but they're only marginally better. How is it that my Panasonic 4 line SOHO phone system (KX-TG4000B) can have four stable, reliable FXOs with no echo at all in a device with a total cost of $500? It seems to me that there ought to be hardware available that behaves just as well, but bridges the PSTN to the SIP/IAX domain? I've read a lot on the list about how difficult designing FXOs can be, but that flies in the face of the fact that every small multi-line phone system has them...and without expection those behave better than the devices I've been able to try with Asterisk. The Sipura SPA-3000 has several settings to adjust for line impedance and inductive/capacitive line loadinglots of settings, but it provides nowhere near the basic performance of one of the lines on the Panasonic KSU. It's simply mind boggling. So, while I've posted with respect to FXOs previously, I must ask againwhat FXO interface device can anyone recommend from real experience? Michael P.S. - I even investigated switching my lines to ISDN to get around the need for FXOs, but SBC won't do it where I live. -- Michael Graves [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sr. Product Specialist www.pixelpower.com Pixel Power Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] o713-861-4005 o800-905-6412 c713-201-1262 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
