Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread
On Tue, 2005-06-28 at 14:24 -0400, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: > On Tuesday 28 June 2005 13:49, hank wrote: > > a man loose his mind? > > what was the archive posting on that one? I want to read that :) > > http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2005-April/098768.html > > The whole thread's kind of funny... He started off really calm and rational, > offering to donate time and space on his "modern, progressive" web forum with > all his experience and so on, but when we (the community) ultimately turned > him down he quite literally lost his mind, I think. > > -A. gmane.org appears to have the group gmane.comp.telephony.pbx.asterisk.users (and biz and dev). Gmane is a free service that does smtp->nntp and back again. Has a web interface to read the groups, etc. For those that dont want email they should be able to use that, or at least use that as a feeder if they dont want to deal with email delivery. It also provides group searching for people who want to read archives for more help. Perhaps the easiest way would be to have a mini-faq that explains how to properly ask a question (what information should be provided when asking) along with places to search for information (lists.digium.com, gmane.org, google queries if you want to search, etc). That way some of the complaints about the list can be mitigated. To be honest I dont know if the list sent something like this on subscription, but it may have. Some of the other lists I am on have a faq maintainer (so 100 people dont all do it at the same time) that sends such a faq once per month, but that may be extreme. http://dir.gmane.org/index.php?prefix=gmane.comp.telephony.pbx.asterisk There are 10 lists with posts in them that can all be read that way. Note: I have no affiliation with gmane, and from using it, it appears to be sponsored by donations not banner ads, etc, so it is a clean interface (with multiple interfaces, rss, blog style, threaded, etc). -- Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel UK +44 870 340 4605 Germany +49 801 777 555 3402 US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200 FreeWorldDialup: 635378 signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread
Hi On Tue, Jun 28, 2005 at 10:49:29AM -0700, hank wrote: > a man loose his mind? > what was the archive posting on that one? I want to read that :) Thanks for the kind, tactful and on-topic post. Also thank you for trimming irrelevant quoted text from your message. Shall we drop this? -- Tzafrir Cohen | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | VIM is http://tzafrir.org.il | | a Mutt's [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | best ICQ# 16849755 | | friend ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread
On Tuesday 28 June 2005 13:49, hank wrote: > a man loose his mind? > what was the archive posting on that one? I want to read that :) http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-users/2005-April/098768.html The whole thread's kind of funny... He started off really calm and rational, offering to donate time and space on his "modern, progressive" web forum with all his experience and so on, but when we (the community) ultimately turned him down he quite literally lost his mind, I think. -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread
a man loose his mind? what was the archive posting on that one? I want to read that :) laters hank - Original Message - From: "Michael Di Martino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion" Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 6:44 AM Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Kohlsmith Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 5:26 PM To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread On Monday 27 June 2005 15:46, steve szmidt wrote: One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get started without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A place that frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki. We've effectively argued it to death many many times over the course of the last few years. Check the archives -- it's been thought up and re-thought up and dismissed each and every time. Basic issue: nobody will want to sit on the newbie list because they'll end up answering all the same questions over and over since nobody really seems to want to read for themselves. It's the same argument that comes around for forums, except that last time I think we actually witnessed a man lose his mind on the mailing list. That was entertaining. :-) ~ Their would not be so many newbie questions if their was 1. A fully indexed searchable archive list and 2. Good solid documentation. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread
On Tuesday 28 June 2005 09:44, Michael Di Martino wrote: > Their would not be so many newbie questions if their was 1. A fully > indexed searchable archive list and 2. Good solid documentation. Alright, you've called my bluff. http://www.mail-archive.com/asterisk-users%40lists.digium.com/ Is that not fully indexed and searchable enough for you? http://lists.digium.org is fully indexed, but is not searchable. Googling for "site:lists.digium.com search terms here" is fully searchable but not indexed. So now, you have indexed and searchable, indexed, and searchable. Can we please stop complaining about this now? As for point #2 -- I think everyone is in agreement but it is no small feat and there are several people working on it. Feel free to contribute. -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Kohlsmith Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 5:26 PM To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread On Monday 27 June 2005 15:46, steve szmidt wrote: > One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an > Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get > started without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A > place that frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki. We've effectively argued it to death many many times over the course of the last few years. Check the archives -- it's been thought up and re-thought up and dismissed each and every time. Basic issue: nobody will want to sit on the newbie list because they'll end up answering all the same questions over and over since nobody really seems to want to read for themselves. It's the same argument that comes around for forums, except that last time I think we actually witnessed a man lose his mind on the mailing list. That was entertaining. :-) ~ Their would not be so many newbie questions if their was 1. A fully indexed searchable archive list and 2. Good solid documentation. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread
If you don't like that method, go to http://www.mail-archive.com/index.php?hunt=asterisk I used to use this archive sometimes. Darren Wiebe [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wiley Siler wrote: The archive is very searchable it just is a pain sometimes... To search by relevance... Go to google.com. Enter: site:lists.digium.com You get the archive back with relevance as the main sorter. I have also seen some places that back up the list and sort by date and allow searching. (looking for these again) So it may be labor intensive sometimes but there is certainly the ability to search. W -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Di Martino Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 1:55 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread I agree with that fact the same questions get posted, but that problem is compounded by the fact the archives are not really searchable. If the were as lease some users would search. The archives need to be fully indexed. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve szmidt Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 3:46 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread On Monday 27 June 2005 14:31, Michael Di Martino wrote: If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk admins as it does on trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just might be a great list. As it stands now this list is kind of useless. Most request for assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered. Lists with this number of new members have a repetiveness of the same questions which people sometimes get tired of answering. Which is too bad. However, even though it seemingly does not directly aid asterisk users it does so indirectly. People on this list grow into becoming lemonade stand operators and maybe even bigger service providers. It is often done because people realize that "Wow, I can do it too!". Unfortunately it's not something that lives in the world of the Internet, but enters the heavily controlled area of phones. An area droght with difficulties for any newcomer. The thread is showing and giving reason to be a bit better prepared when entering into this particular service industry. As such it is of great importance to those wise enough to take note. For the rest it's just noise. One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get started without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A place that frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread
On Monday 27 June 2005 17:26, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: > On Monday 27 June 2005 15:46, steve szmidt wrote: > > One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an > > Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get > > started without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A place > > that frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki. > > We've effectively argued it to death many many times over the course of the > last few years. Check the archives -- it's been thought up and re-thought > up and dismissed each and every time. Yes, I remember. > Basic issue: nobody will want to sit on the newbie list because they'll end > up answering all the same questions over and over since nobody really seems > to want to read for themselves. Exactly. Though I think we could have more success if we had a dumb'd down version of the wiki with very few options. Maybe along the line Minimum-1, A-Bit-More-2 and A-Little-Bit -More-3. The wiki could do with a MySQL web type layout. I'm thinking of the many examples part. But I sure don't have the time to do it. But I would be tempted. > It's the same argument that comes around for forums, except that last time > I think we actually witnessed a man lose his mind on the mailing list. > That was entertaining. :-) Hehe... we don't see that much fun every day. Which is probably why it was entertaining. -- Steve Szmidt "They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Michael Di Martino > Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 4:55 PM > To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion > Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread > > I agree with that fact the same questions get posted, but > that problem is compounded by the fact the archives are not > really searchable. If the were as lease some users would search. > The archives need to be fully indexed. > In a Google search box: site:lists.digium.com "What you are searching for" ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread
The archives need to be fully indexed. Can you say Google? site:lists.digium.com query goes here -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve szmidt Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 3:46 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread On Monday 27 June 2005 14:31, Michael Di Martino wrote: If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk admins as it does on trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just might be a great list. As it stands now this list is kind of useless. Most request for assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered. Lists with this number of new members have a repetiveness of the same questions which people sometimes get tired of answering. Which is too bad. However, even though it seemingly does not directly aid asterisk users it does so indirectly. People on this list grow into becoming lemonade stand operators and maybe even bigger service providers. It is often done because people realize that "Wow, I can do it too!". Unfortunately it's not something that lives in the world of the Internet, but enters the heavily controlled area of phones. An area droght with difficulties for any newcomer. The thread is showing and giving reason to be a bit better prepared when entering into this particular service industry. As such it is of great importance to those wise enough to take note. For the rest it's just noise. One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get started without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A place that frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki. -- Steve Szmidt "They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread
On Monday 27 June 2005 15:46, steve szmidt wrote: > One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an > Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get started > without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A place that > frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki. We've effectively argued it to death many many times over the course of the last few years. Check the archives -- it's been thought up and re-thought up and dismissed each and every time. Basic issue: nobody will want to sit on the newbie list because they'll end up answering all the same questions over and over since nobody really seems to want to read for themselves. It's the same argument that comes around for forums, except that last time I think we actually witnessed a man lose his mind on the mailing list. That was entertaining. :-) -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread
The archive is very searchable it just is a pain sometimes... To search by relevance... Go to google.com. Enter: site:lists.digium.com You get the archive back with relevance as the main sorter. I have also seen some places that back up the list and sort by date and allow searching. (looking for these again) So it may be labor intensive sometimes but there is certainly the ability to search. W -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael Di Martino Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 1:55 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread I agree with that fact the same questions get posted, but that problem is compounded by the fact the archives are not really searchable. If the were as lease some users would search. The archives need to be fully indexed. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve szmidt Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 3:46 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread On Monday 27 June 2005 14:31, Michael Di Martino wrote: > If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk > admins as it does on trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just > might be a great list. > As it stands now this list is kind of useless. Most request for > assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered. Lists with this number of new members have a repetiveness of the same questions which people sometimes get tired of answering. Which is too bad. However, even though it seemingly does not directly aid asterisk users it does so indirectly. People on this list grow into becoming lemonade stand operators and maybe even bigger service providers. It is often done because people realize that "Wow, I can do it too!". Unfortunately it's not something that lives in the world of the Internet, but enters the heavily controlled area of phones. An area droght with difficulties for any newcomer. The thread is showing and giving reason to be a bit better prepared when entering into this particular service industry. As such it is of great importance to those wise enough to take note. For the rest it's just noise. One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get started without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A place that frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki. -- Steve Szmidt "They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread
I agree with that fact the same questions get posted, but that problem is compounded by the fact the archives are not really searchable. If the were as lease some users would search. The archives need to be fully indexed. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of steve szmidt Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 3:46 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread On Monday 27 June 2005 14:31, Michael Di Martino wrote: > If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk > admins as it does on trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just > might be a great list. > As it stands now this list is kind of useless. Most request for > assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered. Lists with this number of new members have a repetiveness of the same questions which people sometimes get tired of answering. Which is too bad. However, even though it seemingly does not directly aid asterisk users it does so indirectly. People on this list grow into becoming lemonade stand operators and maybe even bigger service providers. It is often done because people realize that "Wow, I can do it too!". Unfortunately it's not something that lives in the world of the Internet, but enters the heavily controlled area of phones. An area droght with difficulties for any newcomer. The thread is showing and giving reason to be a bit better prepared when entering into this particular service industry. As such it is of great importance to those wise enough to take note. For the rest it's just noise. One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get started without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A place that frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki. -- Steve Szmidt "They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] LiveVoip is Bankrupt - Why this thread
On Monday 27 June 2005 14:31, Michael Di Martino wrote: > If this list spent at least half the time on helping other asterisk > admins as it does on > trivial things like LiveVoips bankruptcy it just might be a great list. > As it stands now this list is kind of useless. Most request for > assistance with asterisk problems go unresolved of unanswered. Lists with this number of new members have a repetiveness of the same questions which people sometimes get tired of answering. Which is too bad. However, even though it seemingly does not directly aid asterisk users it does so indirectly. People on this list grow into becoming lemonade stand operators and maybe even bigger service providers. It is often done because people realize that "Wow, I can do it too!". Unfortunately it's not something that lives in the world of the Internet, but enters the heavily controlled area of phones. An area droght with difficulties for any newcomer. The thread is showing and giving reason to be a bit better prepared when entering into this particular service industry. As such it is of great importance to those wise enough to take note. For the rest it's just noise. One could probably argue effectively for an Asterisk-Basic list. Or an Asterisk-Advanced user list. Something that makes it easier to get started without being overwhelmed by 10,000-15,000 users posts. A place that frequently posted links to the beginner pages on the wiki. -- Steve Szmidt "They that would give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
