RE: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Voicemail and MS Exchange Synchronization
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a Winner folks! Yes, to the user it should only be the choice of where there messages go and if they get deleted. They should not know about anything behind the curtain. Would it not be great to have asterisk voicemail messages stored in a non-asterisk dependent storage box! That is probably why asterisk voicemail is so well liked. You can store the messages pretty much any way you like. Many of you probably do not know that if you want to add voicemail message storage to some proprietary voicemail systems that you have to thousands per megabyte of disk space. You have to buy their magic hard discs that only work with their voicemail systems. Much of the reason I was brought into the world of voicemail to begin with was to fix just that reason. A customer wanted to replace his 200+ voicemail server with a home built system. Why? Because it was going to cost him $10,000 to add about 10,000 minutes to each of his 200+ voicemail servers. And he wanted to add 100 more servers, and many more hours each. He wanted to expand to 1,000,000 customers. Do the math, over $2 million just to do the upgrade. We created his new networked system with unlimited storage and expansion for $1,000,000 in labor in about $250,000 in hardware. He liked the work so much he bought the company (for stock in his, then took the good stuff, dumped the workers and went on to be a more successful business man.) So, do I hear anyone asking for a MySQL database to store asterisk voicemail and configurations (and all that admin stuff?) Add to that a pop/imap/smtp server that is based on the same MySQL database (does anyone see the irony yet?) Hmmm, a message server. A place to collect messages; email, fax, voicemails, pages, and all that. Please don't mention Universal Messaging or the Universal Inbox. Funny, how each way to collect and distribute messages got to be so diverse in which each kind of message got sent to its only pigeon hole. What would the world pay for a Message Server that could act more like a human? You ask for a message, it hands it to you in the correct format for the media you are on? Does anyone remember RIFF? TIFF? Race "the tyrant" Vanderdecken -Original Message- From: Steve Hanselman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Hanselman Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 6:09 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Voicemail and MS Exchange Synchronization Is the solution not to change the voicemail system to enable it to utilise other entities as the store, e.g. a pop3 server or an imap server rather than just flat files on disk (which should remain an option). That way it doesn't matter where they listen to them or delete them from? Steve From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Race Vanderdecken Sent: Sat 11/06/2005 12:52 To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion' Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Voicemail and MS Exchange Synchronization Aye, there's the rub. "Now having said that, obviously we can't delete the message from the local store of the POP3 client after it has been already downloaded, but we are not talking about that, are we?" 1. Thou shall not require any brain cells on the part of the end-user. 2. Thou shall not require any settings to be set on the user's equipment. ... More rules to follow. Rule #3 Thou shall not require the user to delete voicemail messages stored in their email account program by the voicemail server after they have deleted it from their voicemail account, unless they have told the administrator that they will do it, because the user thinks all of their messages (voice, email, fax, paper, phone) are all stored in ROM somewhere on the internet... You will drive your users nuts if they can't delete it from their message from one place. They will not understand they have to delete the same message twice, trust me. Race -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Iassen Hristov Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 7:18 PM To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Voicemail and MS Exchange Synchronization > -- > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:03:04 -0400 > From: David Brodbeck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Voicemail and MS Exchange > To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion' > > Message-ID: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > IMAP is no good. Outlook, at least in older versions, cannot handle both > an IMAP account and an Exchange account at the same time. (They can do > POP3 and Exchange t
[Asterisk-Users] RE: Voicemail and MS Exchange Synchronization
All I am saying it that it won't work if the user is using POP3. I don't think it is at all possible to overcome this. And as I said before this is not the use case we are talking about. The solution simply does not work for users retrieving e-mail via POP3 and I don't see a way that it would. After all we are talking about an enterprise environment here. It will work for everybody using Exchange and Outlook w/ the native Exchange protocol, as well for all other IMAP servers and IMAP clients. I don't see a problem with this approach. Simply if you want this feature you need to be using IMAP, not POP3. I should think POP3 is very obsolete by now in corporate environments anyhow. > > -- > > Message: 2 > Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 19:52:24 -0400 > From: "Race Vanderdecken" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Voicemail and MS Exchange > Synchronization > To: "'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'" > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > You will drive your users nuts if they can't delete it from their > message from one place. They will not understand they have to delete the > same message twice, trust me. > > Race ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Voicemail and MS Exchange Synchronization
Is the solution not to change the voicemail system to enable it to utilise other entities as the store, e.g. a pop3 server or an imap server rather than just flat files on disk (which should remain an option). That way it doesn't matter where they listen to them or delete them from? Steve From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Race Vanderdecken Sent: Sat 11/06/2005 12:52 To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion' Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Voicemail and MS Exchange Synchronization Aye, there's the rub. "Now having said that, obviously we can't delete the message from the local store of the POP3 client after it has been already downloaded, but we are not talking about that, are we?" 1. Thou shall not require any brain cells on the part of the end-user. 2. Thou shall not require any settings to be set on the user's equipment. ... More rules to follow. Rule #3 Thou shall not require the user to delete voicemail messages stored in their email account program by the voicemail server after they have deleted it from their voicemail account, unless they have told the administrator that they will do it, because the user thinks all of their messages (voice, email, fax, paper, phone) are all stored in ROM somewhere on the internet... You will drive your users nuts if they can't delete it from their message from one place. They will not understand they have to delete the same message twice, trust me. Race -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Iassen Hristov Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 7:18 PM To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Voicemail and MS Exchange Synchronization > -- > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:03:04 -0400 > From: David Brodbeck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Voicemail and MS Exchange > To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion' > > Message-ID: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > IMAP is no good. Outlook, at least in older versions, cannot handle both > an IMAP account and an Exchange account at the same time. (They can do > POP3 and Exchange together, though.) Does this matter? All we are saying is that Exchange supports IMAP and we would use IMAP as the protocol to delete the message from the user's mailbox. How does the user access his mailbox is his choice. Now having said that, obviously we can't delete the message from the local store of the POP3 client after it has been already downloaded, but we are not talking about that, are we? ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users The information contained in this email is intended for the personal and confidential use of the addressee only. It may also be privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient then you are hereby notified that you have received this document in error and that any review, distribution or copying of this document is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify Brendata immediately on: +44 (0)1268 466100, or email '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Brendata (UK) Ltd Nevendon Hall, Nevendon Road, Basildon, Essex. SS13 1BX UK Registered Office as above. Registered in England No. 2764339 See our current vacancies at www.brendata.co.uk<>___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Voicemail and MS Exchange Synchronization
Aye, there's the rub. "Now having said that, obviously we can't delete the message from the local store of the POP3 client after it has been already downloaded, but we are not talking about that, are we?" 1. Thou shall not require any brain cells on the part of the end-user. 2. Thou shall not require any settings to be set on the user's equipment. ... More rules to follow. Rule #3 Thou shall not require the user to delete voicemail messages stored in their email account program by the voicemail server after they have deleted it from their voicemail account, unless they have told the administrator that they will do it, because the user thinks all of their messages (voice, email, fax, paper, phone) are all stored in ROM somewhere on the internet... You will drive your users nuts if they can't delete it from their message from one place. They will not understand they have to delete the same message twice, trust me. Race -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Iassen Hristov Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 7:18 PM To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Voicemail and MS Exchange Synchronization > -- > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:03:04 -0400 > From: David Brodbeck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Voicemail and MS Exchange > To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion' > > Message-ID: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > IMAP is no good. Outlook, at least in older versions, cannot handle both > an IMAP account and an Exchange account at the same time. (They can do > POP3 and Exchange together, though.) Does this matter? All we are saying is that Exchange supports IMAP and we would use IMAP as the protocol to delete the message from the user's mailbox. How does the user access his mailbox is his choice. Now having said that, obviously we can't delete the message from the local store of the POP3 client after it has been already downloaded, but we are not talking about that, are we? ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Voicemail and MS Exchange Synchronization
On Fri, Jun 10, 2005 at 07:06:39PM -0400, Iassen Hristov wrote: > > IMAP vs. Exchange > > I would be very weary of using IMAP against an Exchange Server. I have > > not touch it for years but IMAP and Exchange did not play together > > really well back then. > > Has anyone actually used real IMAP to talk to an Exchange server from a > > Linux client lately? > > If your Linux client can play nice then IMAP with exchange might work. > I entirely disagree. > I have been using Mulberry (including the Linux version) with an Exchange > server for years without a hint of a problem. Actually I would say > everybody else in the company (using Outlook) has had problems, not me with > Mulberry. > The IMAP implementation of Exchange is fine AFAIK. I seriously doubt that a > Linux client implementation will not work properly. In earlier versions of Exchange there were some oddities (remember it was based on an X.400 mail system) and IMAP was "bolted on". I believe the IMAP mailstore actually synced itself with the X.400 internals every now and again. In later versions that has changed completely, and MS actually do a pretty reasonable version of an IMAP server. Of course you don't get all the "sexy" features that you do with MAPI, but then I'd guess most people never really use them (something like 80/20 rule). Steve Steve -- NetTek Ltd Fax +44-(0)20 7483 2455 Skype / In stevekennedyuk / UK +442088167166 / US +13106518226 Vonage UK +442079932612 / US +13108577715 / UK mob 07775 755503 Personal Blog http://stevekennedy.blogspot.com Euro Tech News Blog http://eurotechnews.blogspot.com ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[Asterisk-Users] Re: Voicemail and MS Exchange Synchronization
> -- > > Message: 4 > Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2005 10:03:04 -0400 > From: David Brodbeck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Voicemail and MS Exchange > To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion' > > Message-ID: > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > IMAP is no good. Outlook, at least in older versions, cannot handle both > an IMAP account and an Exchange account at the same time. (They can do > POP3 and Exchange together, though.) Does this matter? All we are saying is that Exchange supports IMAP and we would use IMAP as the protocol to delete the message from the user's mailbox. How does the user access his mailbox is his choice. Now having said that, obviously we can't delete the message from the local store of the POP3 client after it has been already downloaded, but we are not talking about that, are we? ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[Asterisk-Users] Re: Voicemail and MS Exchange Synchronization
I entirely disagree. I have been using Mulberry (including the Linux version) with an Exchange server for years without a hint of a problem. Actually I would say everybody else in the company (using Outlook) has had problems, not me with Mulberry. The IMAP implementation of Exchange is fine AFAIK. I seriously doubt that a Linux client implementation will not work properly. > > -- > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 23:49:45 -0400 > From: "Race Vanderdecken" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Voicemail and MS Exchange > To: "'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'" > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > IMAP vs. Exchange > > I would be very weary of using IMAP against an Exchange Server. I have > not touch it for years but IMAP and Exchange did not play together > really well back then. > > Has anyone actually used real IMAP to talk to an Exchange server from a > Linux client lately? > > If your Linux client can play nice then IMAP with exchange might work. > > The trick is getting Exchange to talk to you if you are not a MAPI > client. > > Just some thoughts, if you can get it to work that would be great and I > think people would buy it. > > Race "the tyrant" Vanderdecken ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Voicemail and MS Exchange Synchronization
Good Idea, but not practical as it breaks the second commandment of IT user management. 1. Thou shall not require any brain cells on the part of the end-user. 2. Thou shall not require any settings to be set on the users equipment. ... More rules to follow... Race "the tyrant" Vanderdecken -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Brodbeck Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 10:08 AM To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion' Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Voicemail and MS Exchange Synchronization > -Original Message- > From: Iassen Hristov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Dumb, hacky idea...but just so crazy it might work: Have Asterisk include a read receipt request when sending the voice mail message. Write a script, triggered from a sendmail alias or .forward file, that will parse the incoming receipts and handle the message deletion. Bonus points: When someone listens to the message on the voicemail server, send an Outlook message retraction request. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[Asterisk-Users] Re: Voicemail and MS Exchange Synchronization
The quote below is from an old discussion (2005-03-23) on this list re using IMAP as the backend storage for comedian mail. Once such an abstraction is achieved I believe it would be relatively straightforward to store and retrieve messages from Exchange via MAPI. More upfront work, yes, but it would provide a cleaner and simpler architecture in the long run, wouldn't it? And the benefits can be shared by those using Exchange and those of us who prefer an IMAP server on the backend. James Kevin P. Fleming wrote: > There are discussions currently going about modifying the voicemail > system to use an abstracted storage layer that would allow for this sort > of thing to be easily done. > > If you are interested in helping (with code or sponsorship) email me > off-list and we'll get you into the conversation :-) ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Voicemail and MS Exchange Synchronization
On 6/9/05, Iassen Hristov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I don't see why it has to be Exchange specific. It should be able to work > for all IMAP servers. > > The way I see it, it should be fairly simple to implement in the following > scenario: > > 1) Modify Asterisk source to: > a) when sending the notification e-mail - add a special X-Header that > contains an ID for the VM. > b) when deleting the msg - send a msg to a special e-mail address > > 2) On mail server have a procmail or sieve rule that when sent a special > msg containing the VM ID is able to find it by searching the X-Header and > delete it from the IMAP store. > > Another possibility for 1b) is if the AstManager sends the fact that the VM > was deleted as an event. If this is the case then a client application can > "subscribe" to that event and do the necessary finding and deleting of the > e-mail. > > Matching can technically be done on the subject, but an X-Header seems less > dangerous. > This will work anyhow with any imap server as you say, however most companies use Excahnge and Outlook as a client to Exchange using MAPI and not IMAP or POP. However your idea is very solid as it would work with Exchange and Outlook using MAPI as well. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[Asterisk-Users] Re: Voicemail and MS Exchange Synchronization
I don't see why it has to be Exchange specific. It should be able to work for all IMAP servers. The way I see it, it should be fairly simple to implement in the following scenario: 1) Modify Asterisk source to: a) when sending the notification e-mail - add a special X-Header that contains an ID for the VM. b) when deleting the msg - send a msg to a special e-mail address 2) On mail server have a procmail or sieve rule that when sent a special msg containing the VM ID is able to find it by searching the X-Header and delete it from the IMAP store. Another possibility for 1b) is if the AstManager sends the fact that the VM was deleted as an event. If this is the case then a client application can "subscribe" to that event and do the necessary finding and deleting of the e-mail. Matching can technically be done on the subject, but an X-Header seems less dangerous. > Message: 28 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 11:23:33 -0700 > From: "Rusty Shackleford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Voicemail and MS Exchange > Synchronization > To: "'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'" > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" > >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of >> George Pajari >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 10:19 AM >> To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion >> Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Voicemail and MS Exchange Synchronization >> >> >> We have a customer considering migrating from a large Nortel >> PBX with a >> third-party voicemail system to Asterisk but one of the features they >> really like is the automatic synchronization of voicemail between >> Exchange and their voicemail system -- delete a message from the >> voicemail system and it is deleted from their email inbox and >> vice versa. >> >> Searching has not revealed anything like this being developed for >> Asterisk and yet it would appear to be a critical component needed to >> migrate customers used to fully integrated "Unified >> Messaging" systems >> to Asterisk. >> >> (a) Has anyone cracked this nut (or started on it)? >> >> (b) Anyone interested if we post a bounty? > > Good luck! > > Back in the day, when we were on an Altigen system, we were using this > feature. It NEVER worked right. To be fair, it was not a feature that > had been extensively tested. Altigen's beta program appeared to made up > of paying customers. :( >> From what I recall of the sessions with their engineers trying to debug > things, Exchange Server's behavior in the areas critical to supporting > this feature were poorly documented and seemed to change from one > service pack to the next. > > Things may well have improved, with regards to Exchange Server. It's > been a few years. To be sure, this would be a killer feature in > marketing * to MS Exchange Server shops. But I think I'll go hit myself > with hammer for a while instead. :) > > Message: 28 > Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2005 11:23:33 -0700 > From: "Rusty Shackleford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Voicemail and MS Exchange > Synchronization > To: "'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'" > > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" > >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of >> George Pajari >> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 10:19 AM >> To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion >> Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Voicemail and MS Exchange Synchronization >> >> >> We have a customer considering migrating from a large Nortel >> PBX with a >> third-party voicemail system to Asterisk but one of the features they >> really like is the automatic synchronization of voicemail between >> Exchange and their voicemail system -- delete a message from the >> voicemail system and it is deleted from their email inbox and >> vice versa. >> >> Searching has not revealed anything like this being developed for >> Asterisk and yet it would appear to be a critical component needed to >> migrate customers used to fully integrated "Unified >> Messaging" systems >> to Asterisk. >> >> (a) Has anyone cracked this nut (or started on it)? >> >> (b) Anyone interested if we post a bounty? > > Good luck! > > Back in the day, when we were on an Altigen system, we were using this > feature. It NEVER worked right. To be fair, it was not a feature that > had been extensively tested. Altigen's beta program appeared to made up > of paying customers. :( >> From what I recall of the sessions with their engineers trying to debug > things, Exchange Server's behavior in the areas critical to supporting > this feature were poorly documented and seemed to change from one > service pack to the next. > > Things may well have improved, with regards to Exchange Server. It's > been a few
