[Asterisk-Users] Re: Teliax billing question
"Ryan Burke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Is there any other charges because of the toll free number? I was toying with the idea of getting an 800 number too, but the issue of a substantial per call fee for pay-phones calls has me worried. Hopefully someone here can clarify what the deal is there. I've seen numbers quoted as high as a 60-cents for the payphone settlement. from: http://www.trac.org/news/2005/tracnotes-vol-3-22.html Watch Out for New 1-800 Number Scam - An old scam may be cropping up again for consumers with personal 1-800 numbers. Most long distance companies charge subscribers a per-call fee for calls placed from a payphone to a residential 1-800 number. This fee is then sent back to the owner of the payphone. While this arrangement is perfectly legitimate, in 2002, scammers in Berkeley, California found a way to take advantage of the system. They set up a phony payphone company and connect a bank of payphones to an automatic dialer. The dialer then randomly dialed 1-800 numbers until it hit a residential toll-free number. When the call is picked up, the scammer pocketed the 24¢ fee. Thanks to the auto-dialer, they could quickly rack up profits from the scam. By the time the operation was shut down by police, they had netted almost a half million dollars. Reports of a similar scam are coming in and consumers with residential 800 numbers are urged to check their April and May long distance bills for mysterious one-minute phone calls from Denver, Colorado. If you find such a call, be sure to contact your phone company. For more information on this scam, click herei. (Thanks to ConsumerWorld.org for this tip.) WIRELESS WATCH -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ Direct SIP URL Dialing: http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/phonedirectory.html ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[Asterisk-Users] Re: Teliax billing question
>> from: http://www.trac.org/news/2005/tracnotes-vol-3-22.html > > The scam isn't new, and its certainly not limited to home 800 numbers. > The same basic principles were used by some of the 900 number folks > a few years ago as well. My fear wasn't that someone would stuff phony charges on my bill (like charges for 900 calls that were never made). I was more afraid of the case where someone in bad faith war-dials the 800 number so they can collect the 60-cent (???) per call payphone charge. Will VOIP providers let your dispute this charge because the calls were made in bad-faith or is this simply a grin-and-bear it type situation? I understand that within the PSTN there is a 2-bit value associated with the class of phone that the call is placed from (normal, payphone, prison-phone). If voip/pstn gateways started passing this on it might make it easier for folks to guard against payphone scams by configuring their asterisk to only answer the 800 calls made from normal residential phones. -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ Direct SIP URL Dialing: http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/phonedirectory.html ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Teliax billing question
wolfgang, Thanks for the heads up. I'm hoping to get some feedback from Teliax toll-free customers and see if they would recommend the service. Plus I have those few questions on billing. Thanks again, Ryan - Original Message - From: "Wolfgang S. Rupprecht" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 7:05 PM Subject: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Teliax billing question "Ryan Burke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Is there any other charges because of the toll free number? I was toying with the idea of getting an 800 number too, but the issue of a substantial per call fee for pay-phones calls has me worried. Hopefully someone here can clarify what the deal is there. I've seen numbers quoted as high as a 60-cents for the payphone settlement. from: http://www.trac.org/news/2005/tracnotes-vol-3-22.html Watch Out for New 1-800 Number Scam - An old scam may be cropping up again for consumers with personal 1-800 numbers. Most long distance companies charge subscribers a per-call fee for calls placed from a payphone to a residential 1-800 number. This fee is then sent back to the owner of the payphone. While this arrangement is perfectly legitimate, in 2002, scammers in Berkeley, California found a way to take advantage of the system. They set up a phony payphone company and connect a bank of payphones to an automatic dialer. The dialer then randomly dialed 1-800 numbers until it hit a residential toll-free number. When the call is picked up, the scammer pocketed the 24¢ fee. Thanks to the auto-dialer, they could quickly rack up profits from the scam. By the time the operation was shut down by police, they had netted almost a half million dollars. Reports of a similar scam are coming in and consumers with residential 800 numbers are urged to check their April and May long distance bills for mysterious one-minute phone calls from Denver, Colorado. If you find such a call, be sure to contact your phone company. For more information on this scam, click herei. (Thanks to ConsumerWorld.org for this tip.) WIRELESS WATCH -wolfgang -- Wolfgang S. Rupprechthttp://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/ Direct SIP URL Dialing: http://www.wsrcc.com/wolfgang/phonedirectory.html ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Teliax billing question
> > Is there any other charges because of the toll free number? > > I was toying with the idea of getting an 800 number too, but the issue > of a substantial per call fee for pay-phones calls has me worried. > Hopefully someone here can clarify what the deal is there. I've seen > numbers quoted as high as a 60-cents for the payphone settlement. > > from: http://www.trac.org/news/2005/tracnotes-vol-3-22.html The scam isn't new, and its certainly not limited to home 800 numbers. The same basic principles were used by some of the 900 number folks a few years ago as well. Hell, even the local telephone companies are doing weird billings, and the average home owner never bothers to read the details to even recognize it. It's really no different then any other invoice; pay attention to what you are being invoiced. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Teliax billing question
Rich, Thanks for your feedback. Sounds like what I was looking for. I think I'll sign up tonight! Thanks, Ryan - Original Message - From: "Rich Adamson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion" Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2005 8:30 PM Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Teliax billing question > Is there any other charges because of the toll free number? I was toying with the idea of getting an 800 number too, but the issue of a substantial per call fee for pay-phones calls has me worried. Hopefully someone here can clarify what the deal is there. I've seen numbers quoted as high as a 60-cents for the payphone settlement. from: http://www.trac.org/news/2005/tracnotes-vol-3-22.html The scam isn't new, and its certainly not limited to home 800 numbers. The same basic principles were used by some of the 900 number folks a few years ago as well. Hell, even the local telephone companies are doing weird billings, and the average home owner never bothers to read the details to even recognize it. It's really no different then any other invoice; pay attention to what you are being invoiced. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Teliax billing question
On Mon, 2005-12-19 at 10:13 -0800, Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote: > >> from: http://www.trac.org/news/2005/tracnotes-vol-3-22.html > > > > The scam isn't new, and its certainly not limited to home 800 numbers. > > The same basic principles were used by some of the 900 number folks > > a few years ago as well. > > My fear wasn't that someone would stuff phony charges on my bill (like > charges for 900 calls that were never made). I was more afraid of the > case where someone in bad faith war-dials the 800 number so they can > collect the 60-cent (???) per call payphone charge. Will VOIP > providers let your dispute this charge because the calls were made in > bad-faith or is this simply a grin-and-bear it type situation? > That could be covered under 18 USC 1343 (wire fraud). afaik there has not been a single case that was prosecuted, and for the payphone operator (providing they meet the compensation requirements of the FCC rules - 13.65 comes to mind but I havent owned a payphone business since 1998 so I may not remember correctly) to make up some wild story about how it was a kid or something (which doesnt negate the payphone operators claim to compensation). An elligible payphone must be available for the general public to get access to it. All payments are typically made through clearinghouses as opposed to inidvidual carriers processing the billing. This makes fraud tracking slightly easier since all the calls are there. They have kept averages of total calls by a payphone to compensatable numbers, carrier averages (ie mci, sprint, at&t, etc) and stuff that way. If someone were to use an auto dialer to call a tollfree they violate at least 47 CFR 64.1200 and I think a criminal statute too (I dont remember where in the USC it is anymore, but there is one for that). According to the FCC rules back in 1997-98 on this matter even if fraud is suspected you must pay the payphone operator. They also talk about civil damages being sought, but that doesnt preclude criminal charges, only gives you easy rights to sue, which of course costs money and the burden of proof is then upon you. > I understand that within the PSTN there is a 2-bit value associated > with the class of phone that the call is placed from (normal, > payphone, prison-phone). If voip/pstn gateways started passing this > on it might make it easier for folks to guard against payphone scams > by configuring their asterisk to only answer the 800 calls made from > normal residential phones. Any reasonable provider should be able to block those calls, however in a blocking situation its all or nothing. If you have ani you can look for the same number calling over and over and reject it that way. You should have ani with a tollfree. The additional info is commonly not sent and afaik there is no 'standard' way to send that. SIP IM might work (that is how verisign sends SS7 info in their SIP-7 product so doing something in this case shouldnt be *too* hard but the provider has to agree to it). -- Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanel UK +44 870 340 4605 Germany +49 801 777 555 3402 US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200 FreeWorldDialup: 635378 http://www.sacaug.org/ Sacramento Asterisk Users Group signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Re: Teliax billing question
FYI 60/1 measn first 60 seoncd billed then each 1 /60th of a minute so 1minute 25 second call is billed as 1 minute 25 45 second as one minute wher the first number is minimum seconds so 6/6 is first 6 seconds no matter what then every block of 6 seconds.. 6/1 well you get the point.. its like cell carriers.. where some bill per minute others like canada fido per second.. On 12/19/05, trixter aka Bret McDanel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Mon, 2005-12-19 at 10:13 -0800, Wolfgang S. Rupprecht wrote:> >> from: http://www.trac.org/news/2005/tracnotes-vol-3-22.html> > > > The scam isn't new, and its certainly not limited to home 800 numbers.> > The same basic principles were used by some of the 900 number folks> > a few years ago as well.>> My fear wasn't that someone would stuff phony charges on my bill (like > charges for 900 calls that were never made). I was more afraid of the> case where someone in bad faith war-dials the 800 number so they can> collect the 60-cent (???) per call payphone charge. Will VOIP > providers let your dispute this charge because the calls were made in> bad-faith or is this simply a grin-and-bear it type situation?>That could be covered under 18 USC 1343 (wire fraud). afaik there has not been a single case that was prosecuted, and for the payphoneoperator (providing they meet the compensation requirements of the FCCrules - 13.65 comes to mind but I havent owned a payphone business since 1998 so I may not remember correctly) to make up some wild story abouthow it was a kid or something (which doesnt negate the payphoneoperators claim to compensation). An elligible payphone must beavailable for the general public to get access to it. All payments are typically made through clearinghouses as opposed toinidvidual carriers processing the billing. This makes fraud trackingslightly easier since all the calls are there. They have kept averages of total calls by a payphone to compensatable numbers, carrier averages(ie mci, sprint, at&t, etc) and stuff that way.If someone were to use an auto dialer to call a tollfree they violate atleast 47 CFR 64.1200 and I think a criminal statute too (I dont rememberwhere in the USC it is anymore, but there is one for that).According to the FCC rules back in 1997-98 on this matter even if fraudis suspected you must pay the payphone operator. They also talk about civil damages being sought, but that doesnt preclude criminal charges,only gives you easy rights to sue, which of course costs money and theburden of proof is then upon you.> I understand that within the PSTN there is a 2-bit value associated > with the class of phone that the call is placed from (normal,> payphone, prison-phone). If voip/pstn gateways started passing this> on it might make it easier for folks to guard against payphone scams > by configuring their asterisk to only answer the 800 calls made from> normal residential phones.Any reasonable provider should be able to block those calls, however ina blocking situation its all or nothing. If you have ani you can look for the same number calling over and over and reject it that way. Youshould have ani with a tollfree.The additional info is commonly not sent and afaik there is no'standard' way to send that. SIP IM might work (that is how verisign sends SS7 info in their SIP-7 product so doing something in this caseshouldnt be *too* hard but the provider has to agree to it).--Trixter http://www.0xdecafbad.com Bret McDanelUK +44 870 340 4605 Germany +49 801 777 555 3402US +1 360 207 0479 or +1 516 687 5200FreeWorldDialup: 635378http://www.sacaug.org/ Sacramento Asterisk Users Group -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)iD8DBQBDpvv1+1olxlzQw5cRAn1hAJ401KFBurmj1nvvc/P8hIMjFbhO4ACfSlngyOMzArCFQIRlGtwuwBqXEJg==UsIX-END PGP SIGNATURE- ___--Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --Asterisk-Users mailing listTo UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- Asterisk-Users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
