Re: [Asterisk-Users] VoipJet Terms of Service
Jean-Michel Hiver wrote: But then again come to them with a few million monthly minutes under your belt and I'm sure they'll change the TOS for you... Maybe not, as the ToS also state: The customer agrees to purchase VoipJet termination in small amounts What does this mean? We have to start with 5-minute calls max, then slowly increase absolute timeout? How small is small? How about this one: VOIPJET DOES NOT SUGGEST, AND VEHEMENTLY DENIES, ANY CLAIM THAT ITS VOIP SERVICES HAVE A LEVEL OF QUALITY OR RELIABILITY ANYWHERE NEAR THAT OF THE REGULAR PHONE SYSTEM BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA this is like saying our system sucks and we know it. How can they seriously expect anyone that reads this ToS to want to sign up with them? It would have been simpler to simply state the usual we cannot guarantee 100% reliability or availability of our service, which depends on third parties over which we have no control or something along these lines. Nice laugh, best regards, Mike ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] VoipJet Terms of Service
On March 11, 2005 10:49 am, John Goerzen wrote: * Then there's the NDA: People are specifically prohibited from telling anyone that they use VoipJet, including end users. Also, we can't tell people what we pay for it, even though the prices are right there on their website. * Then there is this one: The Customer agrees not to undertake any action . . . that would harm VoipJet . . . in any way, including financially. So, if I got crappy service from VoipJet and blogged about it, and thus cost them business, even if the NDA didn't get to me, this would, even if my account was completely accurate. How sickening. You can put any silly thing you want in an agreement. A judge would puncture any NDA clause just as they'd puncture an illegal clause in a EULA or any other contract. Oracle has these stupid types of clauses in their contracts for evaluations too. The only reason people honor them is because if they don't they'll never have another opportunity to evaluate the software and the bad karma would follow them around for years. (Think of online mags and the like.) -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[Asterisk-Users] VoipJet Terms of Service
I've heard good things about VoipJet here, so I was going to set up an account. Then I noticed their Terms of Service here: https://www.voipjet.com/tos.php Several things there are very concerning to me, and I'm interested in what other people here think of them. * The ToS specifically forbids use for any call relating to medical, financial, or government matters -- as well as any important call. So I'm violating my contract if I call to make a doctor appointment or check no an X-ray. * Then there's the NDA: People are specifically prohibited from telling anyone that they use VoipJet, including end users. Also, we can't tell people what we pay for it, even though the prices are right there on their website. This one really bothers me. I feel it is an undue restriction on my free speech. Why should I waive the right to share my experiences with companies with others just because I have bought their services? There have been many people on this list and in #asterisk that have publically violated this NDA. I wonder why people choose to do that? And why VoipJet seems to encourage it? * Then there is this one: The Customer agrees not to undertake any action . . . that would harm VoipJet . . . in any way, including financially. So, if I got crappy service from VoipJet and blogged about it, and thus cost them business, even if the NDA didn't get to me, this would, even if my account was completely accurate. How sickening. * I'm also wondering about this is not a service for end users. How does one assert that one is not an end user? Is the ability to setup and configure asterisk to use VoipJet proof in itself, or is there some other proof necessary? Thoughts? Because of all this, I think I'll go with http://www.livevoip.com/, which has a much more common sense ToS. -- John ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[Asterisk-Users] VoipJet Terms of Service
I've heard good things about VoipJet here, so I was going to set up an account. Then I noticed their Terms of Service here: https://www.voipjet.com/tos.php Several things there are very concerning to me, and I'm interested in what other people here think of them. * The ToS specifically forbids use for any call relating to medical, financial, or government matters -- as well as any important call. So I'm violating my contract if I call to make a doctor appointment or check no an X-ray. * Then there's the NDA: People are specifically prohibited from telling anyone that they use VoipJet, including end users. Also, we can't tell people what we pay for it, even though the prices are right there on their website. This one really bothers me. I feel it is an undue restriction on my free speech. Why should I waive the right to share my experiences with companies with others just because I have bought their services? There have been many people on this list and in #asterisk that have publically violated this NDA. I wonder why people choose to do that? And why VoipJet seems to encourage it? * Then there is this one: The Customer agrees not to undertake any action . . . that would harm VoipJet . . . in any way, including financially. So, if I got crappy service from VoipJet and blogged about it, and thus cost them business, even if the NDA didn't get to me, this would, even if my account was completely accurate. How sickening. * I'm also wondering about this is not a service for end users. How does one assert that one is not an end user? Is the ability to setup and configure asterisk to use VoipJet proof in itself, or is there some other proof necessary? Thoughts? Because of all this, I think I'll go with http://www.livevoip.com/, which has a much more common sense ToS. -- John ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] VoipJet Terms of Service
John Goerzen wrote: I've heard good things about VoipJet here, so I was going to set up an account. Then I noticed their Terms of Service here: https://www.voipjet.com/tos.php Several things there are very concerning to me, and I'm interested in what other people here think of them. * The ToS specifically forbids use for any call relating to medical, financial, or government matters -- as well as any important call. So I'm violating my contract if I call to make a doctor appointment or check no an X-ray. I think they are putting this in to avoid being sued because that duper important call your were placing was cut for reason X Y Z. However it's completely stupid since they're targetting 'emerging carriers'. If you're gonna be a carrier, there's a chance you'll want to route _all calls_. But then again come to them with a few million monthly minutes under your belt and I'm sure they'll change the TOS for you... * Then there's the NDA: People are specifically prohibited from telling anyone that they use VoipJet, including end users. Also, we can't tell people what we pay for it, even though the prices are right there on their website. Well if they're doing you a discount because you're buying bulk, then they might not want everybody to know about it - because then others would be like hey, i want this rate too. That's quite understandable I guess. However it would be better if they asked nicely instead of putting it into a TOS. For me it works better anyway. This one really bothers me. I feel it is an undue restriction on my free speech. Why should I waive the right to share my experiences with companies with others just because I have bought their services? Damn. Here you go: THERE IS A 99.% CHANCE THAT I USE VOIPJET. Perfectly in line with the TOS - :-) * Then there is this one: The Customer agrees not to undertake any action . . . that would harm VoipJet . . . in any way, including financially. So, if I got crappy service from VoipJet and blogged about it, and thus cost them business, even if the NDA didn't get to me, this would, even if my account was completely accurate. How sickening. Well if you make a campaign on a company without tangible proof backing your claims, it's called slander. As for the 'you agree not to sue us' clause, if you do sue them and the judge thinks you actually have a case, it ain't going to do much for them. * I'm also wondering about this is not a service for end users. How does one assert that one is not an end user? Is the ability to setup and configure asterisk to use VoipJet proof in itself, or is there some other proof necessary? I think that basically as long as you: - don't slag them off in public too much - don't sue them because of X Y or Z - don't use your account for immoral / illegal purposes = you'll be fine. All the rest is silly legalese to cover their butts. I've been using VoIPJet for a while for really low volume and apart from the occasional outage, it's been fine. Thoughts? Because of all this, I think I'll go with http://www.livevoip.com/, which has a much more common sense ToS. I didn't know them - I'll take a look! ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] VoipJet Terms of Service
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Goerzen) writes: I've heard good things about VoipJet here, so I was going to set up an account. Then I noticed their Terms of Service here: https://www.voipjet.com/tos.php Ignore them. There are plenty of players and you don't need to deal with one that has NDA clauses or indemnification clauses in their contracts. (My favorite is the latter, where they ask you to pick up their cost of fighting off lawsuits even though they may be their fault and/or not even involve you. Thats real chutzpah.) -wolfgang ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] VoipJet Terms of Service
* The ToS specifically forbids use for any call relating to medical, financial, or government matters -- as well as any important call. It's kind of funny, but their TOS basically eliminated them from consideration for my employer -- A county government. Yeah, I could probably see if they'd change it for me, but really, why bother? Ed Beheler Cass County, IN, USA ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
