RE: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Echo Problems..What's going to happen?
This is what I like to hear. Hopefully with the new can, you can hardly hear it or sometimes only. Please let everyone know when you are able to finish it. Thanks! -Original Message- From: Mark Spencer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 3:30 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Echo Problems..What's going to happen? Echo has nothing to do with TCP vs. UDP. It's an analog phenomenon that occurs where the "hybrid" is, where the four-wire circuit changes to a two-wire circuit. Anyway I have developed a way to accellerate the adaption of the echo canceller but it's not made its way into zaptel yet. I'm in Germany right now so it probably won't get done until I get back (i.e. sometime next week), but it *will* get done soon. Mark On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, John M wrote: > What I don't understand is why MSN messenger is perfect with no echo? I > switch back and forth and still hear a big difference. I believe MSN is > using TCP rather than UDP. Can * run on TCP rather than UDP? I think > this makes senses and can eliminate that echo. > > -Original Message- > From: Uriel Carrasquilla [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 10:02 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Echo Problems..What's going to > happen? > > John: > I have been around voice over data packets for quite a few years and I > am still to see the perfect system that works identical to circuit > switching 100% of the time. My opinion is that there is a lot more to > the story than just parameters. Packet loses, double compressions, > faulty routers, bandwidth, analog to digital and so on can get in the > way. > On the other hand, if your customer understand the benefits, and I mean > more than cost, and can leave with 80% perfect, then you will be able to > understand why a lot of companies have opted for VoIP (or ATM or Frame > Relay). > Regards, > Uriel > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of John M > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 1:41 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Echo Problems..What's going to happen? > Importance: High > I've read and experienced the echo problems with the X100P. Is Digium > going to fix the problem or refund our money? I want to see this work > because myself and other small companies out there use analog lines. I > would trade up to T1 but that requires me to have at least 9 lines. If > I did trade up, do the T1 cards work perfectly with no echo at all? I > get echo with my directly connected computer using Xten SIP. No matter > with all the suggestions to change the parameters, it still has echo. > > Does anyone have the T1 and have no problems at all? I would surely > appreciate you experiences. What's my option to get this too work > flawlessly? > > John > > ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Echo Problems..What's going to happen?
John: I don't use MSN so I can't comment. I do know that when my connections are pure VoIP (no analog PSTN connections), the quality is better if enough bandwidth is available. TCP is a protocol that gets used when you want to make sure a packet arrives at the other end. UDP is better for voice because you don't want packets to be retransmitted and have to wait to assemble them on the other end in sequence so the conversation makes sense. Regards, Uriel -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of John MSent: Monday, October 13, 2003 11:18 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Echo Problems..What's going to happen? What I don’t understand is why MSN messenger is perfect with no echo? I switch back and forth and still hear a big difference. I believe MSN is using TCP rather than UDP. Can * run on TCP rather than UDP? I think this makes senses and can eliminate that echo. -Original Message-From: Uriel Carrasquilla [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 10:02 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Echo Problems..What's going to happen? John: I have been around voice over data packets for quite a few years and I am still to see the perfect system that works identical to circuit switching 100% of the time. My opinion is that there is a lot more to the story than just parameters. Packet loses, double compressions, faulty routers, bandwidth, analog to digital and so on can get in the way. On the other hand, if your customer understand the benefits, and I mean more than cost, and can leave with 80% perfect, then you will be able to understand why a lot of companies have opted for VoIP (or ATM or Frame Relay). Regards, Uriel -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of John MSent: Monday, October 13, 2003 1:41 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Echo Problems..What's going to happen?Importance: High I’ve read and experienced the echo problems with the X100P. Is Digium going to fix the problem or refund our money? I want to see this work because myself and other small companies out there use analog lines. I would trade up to T1 but that requires me to have at least 9 lines. If I did trade up, do the T1 cards work perfectly with no echo at all? I get echo with my directly connected computer using Xten SIP. No matter with all the suggestions to change the parameters, it still has echo. Does anyone have the T1 and have no problems at all? I would surely appreciate you experiences. What’s my option to get this too work flawlessly? John
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Echo Problems..What's going to happen?
>Where does the 4 wire change to a 2 wire? with just a x100p that would be at the telco in their switching gear where they do the a/d to route the call but if you have a channel bank withn T1 to * then you have the a/d at the telco switch and then again more a/d when coming off channel banks fxo to T1 inerface in * you can also get echo because of a an impedance mismatch between the analog line trunk from the telco and the x100p (eg tip/ring reversed, incorrectly provisioning on the analog line) so much for theory ..:) Now i have questions 1) how do you actually measure the impedance that is provisioned on the line ?? 2) what impedance does the x100 expect ?? ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Echo Problems..What's going to happen?
On Tuesday, October 14, 2003 8:32 AM, Eric Wieling [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Where does the 4 wire change to a 2 wire? > 4 to 2 wires happen anywhere the signal goes from digital to a cable pair. First the digital signal is converted to an analog 2 wire for transmit and from 2 wire analog to digital for receive. On the analog side the signals are combined from 2 pair to 1 pair. Examples would be a channel unit in a channel bank or line equipment in a telephone switch. It can also happen in an 4 wire analog to a 2 wire analog as can be used to conserve cable pair but this is not as common. Don Pobanz > On Tue, 2003-10-14 at 03:30, Mark Spencer wrote: > > Echo has nothing to do with TCP vs. UDP. It's an analog phenomenon > > that > > occurs where the "hybrid" is, where the four-wire circuit changes to > > a > > two-wire circuit. > > -- > Sample configs and more: http://www.fnords.org/~eric/asterisk/ > > BTEL Consulting > +1-850-484-4535 x2111 (Pensacola) > +1-504-595-3916 x2111 (New Orleans) > +1-877-677-9643 x2111 (Toll Free) ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Echo Problems..What's going to happen?
Where does the 4 wire change to a 2 wire? On Tue, 2003-10-14 at 03:30, Mark Spencer wrote: > Echo has nothing to do with TCP vs. UDP. It's an analog phenomenon that > occurs where the "hybrid" is, where the four-wire circuit changes to a > two-wire circuit. -- Sample configs and more: http://www.fnords.org/~eric/asterisk/ BTEL Consulting +1-850-484-4535 x2111 (Pensacola) +1-504-595-3916 x2111 (New Orleans) +1-877-677-9643 x2111 (Toll Free) ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Echo Problems..What's going to happen?
Echo has nothing to do with TCP vs. UDP. It's an analog phenomenon that occurs where the "hybrid" is, where the four-wire circuit changes to a two-wire circuit. Anyway I have developed a way to accellerate the adaption of the echo canceller but it's not made its way into zaptel yet. I'm in Germany right now so it probably won't get done until I get back (i.e. sometime next week), but it *will* get done soon. Mark On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, John M wrote: > What I don't understand is why MSN messenger is perfect with no echo? I > switch back and forth and still hear a big difference. I believe MSN is > using TCP rather than UDP. Can * run on TCP rather than UDP? I think > this makes senses and can eliminate that echo. > > -Original Message- > From: Uriel Carrasquilla [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 10:02 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Echo Problems..What's going to > happen? > > John: > I have been around voice over data packets for quite a few years and I > am still to see the perfect system that works identical to circuit > switching 100% of the time. My opinion is that there is a lot more to > the story than just parameters. Packet loses, double compressions, > faulty routers, bandwidth, analog to digital and so on can get in the > way. > On the other hand, if your customer understand the benefits, and I mean > more than cost, and can leave with 80% perfect, then you will be able to > understand why a lot of companies have opted for VoIP (or ATM or Frame > Relay). > Regards, > Uriel > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of John M > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 1:41 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Echo Problems..What's going to happen? > Importance: High > I've read and experienced the echo problems with the X100P. Is Digium > going to fix the problem or refund our money? I want to see this work > because myself and other small companies out there use analog lines. I > would trade up to T1 but that requires me to have at least 9 lines. If > I did trade up, do the T1 cards work perfectly with no echo at all? I > get echo with my directly connected computer using Xten SIP. No matter > with all the suggestions to change the parameters, it still has echo. > > Does anyone have the T1 and have no problems at all? I would surely > appreciate you experiences. What's my option to get this too work > flawlessly? > > John > > ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Echo Problems..What's going to happen?
What I don’t understand is why MSN messenger is perfect with no echo? I switch back and forth and still hear a big difference. I believe MSN is using TCP rather than UDP. Can * run on TCP rather than UDP? I think this makes senses and can eliminate that echo. -Original Message- From: Uriel Carrasquilla [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 10:02 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Echo Problems..What's going to happen? John: I have been around voice over data packets for quite a few years and I am still to see the perfect system that works identical to circuit switching 100% of the time. My opinion is that there is a lot more to the story than just parameters. Packet loses, double compressions, faulty routers, bandwidth, analog to digital and so on can get in the way. On the other hand, if your customer understand the benefits, and I mean more than cost, and can leave with 80% perfect, then you will be able to understand why a lot of companies have opted for VoIP (or ATM or Frame Relay). Regards, Uriel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of John M Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 1:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Echo Problems..What's going to happen? Importance: High I’ve read and experienced the echo problems with the X100P. Is Digium going to fix the problem or refund our money? I want to see this work because myself and other small companies out there use analog lines. I would trade up to T1 but that requires me to have at least 9 lines. If I did trade up, do the T1 cards work perfectly with no echo at all? I get echo with my directly connected computer using Xten SIP. No matter with all the suggestions to change the parameters, it still has echo. Does anyone have the T1 and have no problems at all? I would surely appreciate you experiences. What’s my option to get this too work flawlessly? John
RE: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Echo Problems..What's going to happen?
John: I have been around voice over data packets for quite a few years and I am still to see the perfect system that works identical to circuit switching 100% of the time. My opinion is that there is a lot more to the story than just parameters. Packet loses, double compressions, faulty routers, bandwidth, analog to digital and so on can get in the way. On the other hand, if your customer understand the benefits, and I mean more than cost, and can leave with 80% perfect, then you will be able to understand why a lot of companies have opted for VoIP (or ATM or Frame Relay). Regards, Uriel -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of John MSent: Monday, October 13, 2003 1:41 AMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Echo Problems..What's going to happen?Importance: High I’ve read and experienced the echo problems with the X100P. Is Digium going to fix the problem or refund our money? I want to see this work because myself and other small companies out there use analog lines. I would trade up to T1 but that requires me to have at least 9 lines. If I did trade up, do the T1 cards work perfectly with no echo at all? I get echo with my directly connected computer using Xten SIP. No matter with all the suggestions to change the parameters, it still has echo. Does anyone have the T1 and have no problems at all? I would surely appreciate you experiences. What’s my option to get this too work flawlessly? John
Re: [Asterisk-Users] X100P Echo Problems..What's going to happen?
> I've read and experienced the echo problems with the X100P. Is Digium > going to fix the problem or refund our money? I want to see this work > because myself and other small companies out there use analog lines. I > would trade up to T1 but that requires me to have at least 9 lines. If > I did trade up, do the T1 cards work perfectly with no echo at all? I > get echo with my directly connected computer using Xten SIP. No matter > with all the suggestions to change the parameters, it still has echo. Can you explain what you have tried? If it's _you_ who is getting the echo (not the party calling you) and you just can't kill it, the culprit often enough seems to be your PSTN interface; near-end echo is largely caused by impedance mismatches in the hybrid circuit (the circuit which converts the 4-line interface to the 2-line one) -- the software echo cancellers just try and get rid of the echo in software but the problem is often a hardware issue. Just to reiterate the possible solutions that I am aware of: - try different echo cancel algorithms (mark2 with agressive mode is what I use) - reduce or increase the number of taps (echocancel=yes is equivalent to echocancel=128) -- the fewer taps the better, but more taps may be necessary to eliminate echo. - try reversing the ring and tip on the FXO interface - try attaching the FXO card right at the demarcation point and remove ANY other equipment connected at the point of demarcation. Stubs can play havoc with echo cancellation > Does anyone have the T1 and have no problems at all? I would surely > appreciate you experiences. What's my option to get this too work > flawlessly? I am currently experimenting with the T1 card and a channel bank to see if "telco-grade" equipment will do a better job of removing echo. I'm waiting on a cable before I can start testing though. :-( I have a Carrier Access Channel Bank I with 12 FXO ports on it, and an Adit 600 with 12 FXS ports coming soon. the CBI is pretty old and I've heard that it cannot do far-end disconnect detection but the FXO cards claim that they dynamically adjust to compensate for impedance changes to minimize echo, so I'm keen on seeing what they can do. I just got pricing from our telco (Bell Canada) and to purchase an entire ISDN PRI (23B+D) with 30DID and 911 service, the per-line cost is almost identical to regular analogue PSTN ports. There'd be no echo on those babies, I imagine, since there's no hybrid circuit until you hit the other end of the call. Regards, Andrew ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[Asterisk-Users] X100P Echo Problems..What's going to happen?
I’ve read and experienced the echo problems with the X100P. Is Digium going to fix the problem or refund our money? I want to see this work because myself and other small companies out there use analog lines. I would trade up to T1 but that requires me to have at least 9 lines. If I did trade up, do the T1 cards work perfectly with no echo at all? I get echo with my directly connected computer using Xten SIP. No matter with all the suggestions to change the parameters, it still has echo. Does anyone have the T1 and have no problems at all? I would surely appreciate you experiences. What’s my option to get this too work flawlessly? John
