Re: [asterisk-users] Fax Machine Options
Interesting... I really don;t know the T.38 protocol other than what it does. How it goes about doing it I haven;t really gotten into. I would of thought that gatewaying would of (essentially) be a bridge between a termination and origination action. However that is just completely sort of "what i think" without any real evidence behind my thoughts. One day i'll have to read up on it. -- Matt From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Underwood [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2008 9:42 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Fax Machine Options Matt Watson wrote: > I believe Asterisk 1.6 with app_fax supports T.38 origination and > termination, that is not gatewaying, however if origination and termination > are already there, gatewaying should be fairly trivial to implement. I > haven't actually tested 1.6 using T.38, however I have read: > http://www.asterisk.org/node/48457 > T.38 gateway is a totally different problem than T.38 origination/termination. They share very little code, and almost none of their design. Regards, Steve ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Fax Machine Options
Lee Howard wrote: > As I tried to indicate in my first reply... I would encourage you to > order an analog phone line for that fax machine. There are other > options, but in most cases the customer is happy to pay the line charge. When you go the analog POTS line route it just works. No messing with gains, no issues with jitter, no compression. It Just Works and I can get on with interesting stuff instead of wasting time trying to get fax to work over voice over IP over internet. ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Fax Machine Options
Benny Amorsen wrote: > Lee Howard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > >> Note that if you have a fax machine that performs some variant of T.37 >> (fax-over-email) and you have an on-line service provider that is >> willing to work with you... then you can rather easily get your fax >> machine faxing through their service. (Which is yet another option.) >> > > Tell me of a fax machine which can be programmed to do T.37 while > keeping the same UI as regular faxes, and we'll buy a hundred. > > All the ones I've seen require you to type in email addresses instead > of phone numbers, or use a separate keyboard instead of the usual > numeric one. That is not acceptable for regular users. Unfortunately, I'm not well-versed on all fax machine UI's out there. I know that several of them perform scan-to-email or T.37 variants of some kind... Panasonic was one of them. However, whether or not it was a seamless and transparent switch to T.37 from analog I am not sure... because I never really used them. In the case that I needed T.37 I just built my own "fax machine". Realize that you, too, can build your own fax machine with a scanner, a PC, and a modem. And if you are just doing T.37 you can omit the modem part. I used SANE utilities with some PHP to make a simple UI that ran on the small PC. Thanks, Lee. ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Fax Machine Options
Joseph L. Casale wrote: > It turns out their SIP provider doesn't support the T.38 protocol for faxing. > Their statement is if you really need it, use ulaw and AstraFax? I don't > understand > how AstraFax makes a difference in the process? It doesn't make a difference. uLaw over SIP/UDP still involves jitter which results in data loss ... regardless of what fax device or program you use. As I tried to indicate in my first reply... I would encourage you to order an analog phone line for that fax machine. There are other options, but in most cases the customer is happy to pay the line charge. Thanks, Lee. ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Fax Machine Options
>T.38 gateway is a totally different problem than T.38 >origination/termination. They share very little code, and almost none of >their design. > >Regards, >Steve Well, It turns out their SIP provider doesn't support the T.38 protocol for faxing. Their statement is if you really need it, use ulaw and AstraFax? I don't understand how AstraFax makes a difference in the process? Thanks! jlc ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Fax Machine Options
Matt Watson wrote: > I believe Asterisk 1.6 with app_fax supports T.38 origination and > termination, that is not gatewaying, however if origination and termination > are already there, gatewaying should be fairly trivial to implement. I > haven't actually tested 1.6 using T.38, however I have read: > http://www.asterisk.org/node/48457 > T.38 gateway is a totally different problem than T.38 origination/termination. They share very little code, and almost none of their design. Regards, Steve ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Fax Machine Options
The first part of this is kind of off topic as it doesn't answer OP's original question, but instead is a reply to one of the replies. Cisco is certainly not the only option for doing T38 gatewaying with Asterisk. I believe Asterisk 1.6 with app_fax supports T.38 origination and termination, that is not gatewaying, however if origination and termination are already there, gatewaying should be fairly trivial to implement. I haven't actually tested 1.6 using T.38, however I have read: http://www.asterisk.org/node/48457 "11873, Added core API changes to handle T.38 origination and termination (The version of app_fax in Asterisk-addons now supports this.)" Additionally, there are some 3rd party modules available for Asterisk 1.4 that will add T.38 termination, origination, and gatewaying. The ones I am thinking of specifically are the ones made by Attractel in there Attrafax package (previously known as Faxterisk): http://www.attrafax.com/attrafax.php I have used Attrafax before and it works great for us. We use it in combination with Linksys SPA2102 ATAs. We had problems with it at first but upgrading the firmware on the Linksys ATAs made the problem go away. In our case we have a PRI however and are not using SIP connections over the internet. Another option as you have already stated is using a SIP provider that supports T.38 such as gafachi. However in this particular case I understand the OP has already provisioned DIDs from a SIP provider, assuming one of these DIDs is your fax number you may find yourself with a bit of a problem if your provider does not support T.38. You may have some luck with faxing w/o T.38 using G.711a/u over the internet, but it will be patchy at best, you will probably find you will have many failed faxes doing this. Using G.711a/u internally over a LAN is one thing (still wouldn't recommend it, but you would get a high success rate), but doing it over the internet is a completely different story. If you have no real PSTN connections and are SIP only, your provider *must* support T.38 to achieve an acceptable success rate. If your DIDs are already on print materials and your provider doesn't support T.38, the only options I would see for you are: 1) Have your Fax DID ported to another SIP provider that does support T.38, you can leave your voice ones with your current provider 2) Get a new DID from a another SIP provider and re-print all of your materials (probably incredibly expensive) -- Matt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andreas van dem Helge Sent: Monday, May 19, 2008 11:49 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Fax Machine Options Cisco gateway with T.38 support. That's the only real way to do faxing through asterisk. I think a VG200 with newer firmware will support SIP + T.38 but don't buy on my suggestion because I've never used that device outside call manager configuration. Or see if your VoIP provider supports T.38 fax but you must use SIP in that case. It will work very well once you get it working hint: check udptl.conf On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 11:27 PM, Joseph L. Casale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is my only solution to add a fax machine to our VOIP only setup by using an > IAXy? > I should specify the office people want a traditional fax machine in the > sense that > > fax's be sent and received from a physical unit, they don't want an email to > fax setup. > They have a dedicated sip did provisioned just for the fax. > > > > What are others using? > > > > Thanks! > jlc > > ___ > -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- > > asterisk-users mailing list > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Fax Machine Options
2008/5/20 Benny Amorsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >: > Lee Howard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > Note that if you have a fax machine that performs some variant of T.37 > > (fax-over-email) and you have an on-line service provider that is > > willing to work with you... then you can rather easily get your fax > > machine faxing through their service. (Which is yet another option.) > > Tell me of a fax machine which can be programmed to do T.37 while > keeping the same UI as regular faxes, and we'll buy a hundred. > > All the ones I've seen require you to type in email addresses instead > of phone numbers, or use a separate keyboard instead of the usual > numeric one. That is not acceptable for regular users. > > I just want the machine to add @fax.ipvision.dk (example, this doesn't > currently work from the Internet) That's VERY true : I'm still looking for an MFP accepting numbers (ex: 012345678) as default when a user is typing an email address. Unfortunately, all of them would ask you to press 4 times key labelled 2 (which is also used for A, B and C) when in email mode though it would default to numbers when in fax mode. to the phone number and send off the > email. Authentication would be nice, but I could even live without > that. > > > /Benny > > > > ___ > -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- > > asterisk-users mailing list > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Fax Machine Options
Lee Howard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Note that if you have a fax machine that performs some variant of T.37 > (fax-over-email) and you have an on-line service provider that is > willing to work with you... then you can rather easily get your fax > machine faxing through their service. (Which is yet another option.) Tell me of a fax machine which can be programmed to do T.37 while keeping the same UI as regular faxes, and we'll buy a hundred. All the ones I've seen require you to type in email addresses instead of phone numbers, or use a separate keyboard instead of the usual numeric one. That is not acceptable for regular users. I just want the machine to add @fax.ipvision.dk (example, this doesn't currently work from the Internet) to the phone number and send off the email. Authentication would be nice, but I could even live without that. /Benny ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Fax Machine Options
>and to the OP about the hardware, even a cheap grandsteam ATA will >work just fine... that's what I use on my personal fax machine and it >has no issues. I can't recall a time this year a fax has failed. This >is going over the public internet and then also back out to a voip >provider. We do use decent networks but that's about it. No QoS >anywhere down the line. Hey guys, Cart got before the horse here:) Company already has SIP lines ordered and stationary being printed :/ I need to make a fax machine work now, heh. I thought about the IAXy only because I understood it could take an analogue phone and interface it with Asterisk without the need for an expensive peripheral card. I presume the grandsteam ATA accomplishes the same but uses SIP? Which one do you use that you can say works? What does the SIP-compliant T.38 gateway do differently over a cheap ATA? While we are on this, can you suggest a Multifunction you have used that works? Thanks a lot guys! jlc ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Fax Machine Options
On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 12:23 AM, Lee Howard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Andreas van dem Helge wrote: >> Cisco gateway with T.38 support. That's the only real way to do faxing >> through asterisk. > > Although this statement has marginally more truth to it given the > SIP-only context that the original poster provided, it is still > substantially inaccurate. So, mr accurate, please tell us what is the best way to fax via Asterisk. Keep in mind you can't always control the latency between the endpoint and the asterisk machine/media gateway (yes, I know SIP to asterisk on the same VLAN + send the call via PRI works pretty well). And how do we know he is using SIP only? He asked about the IAXy! > There are several ways to do T.38 other than with a Cisco gateway. Now, > if you meant that T.38 is the only way in the SIP-only context (and not > specifically Cisco-branded T.38) then that has significantly more > accuracy to it. Doesn't have to be Cisco. But there is no Asterisk T38Gateway so either way you need to buy a 3rd party gateway (or use a service that supports it... check out www.gafachi.com) Audiocodes we can take off the list because the violate the GPL so next down my list is Cisco. But any SIP-compliant T.38 gateway will work. > However, if by *real* you also mean *reliable* then be aware that T.38 > over SIP/UDP has an inherent weakness due to the medium that make it, in > my experience, significantly less-reliable than simply having a fax > machine hooked up to a traditional analog line. Yes but significantly the most reliable way to fax at the moment via "VoiP"... well you have that magic answer but I haven't heard it yet. Honestly if the OP is using the phones voip-only and can make calls and understand the remote party and be understood there should be no issues. The problem is even in an environment where voice quality is perceived very well faxing could still be an issue. If you have an issue where your t38 calls can't complete due to packet loss, latency or other such issues I doubt you can make an intelligible phone call. > When my clients come to me with the same issue I generally do not push > them into a corner with T.38. In almost all cases they find that it is > worth the $20-50 monthly for the analog fax line... and if that expense > is too much then the on-line fax service provider is an easy recommendation. You're not my client and I'm not trying to pressure anyone. What if they have 500 fax machine spit over 23 locations is keeping phone lines still cost effective? He's asking on the Asterisk mailing list regarding faxes so I assume 'get a phone line' isn't an option. > Note that if you have a fax machine that performs some variant of T.37 > (fax-over-email) and you have an on-line service provider that is > willing to work with you... then you can rather easily get your fax > machine faxing through their service. (Which is yet another option.) And how many (low cost... not $5000 "copiers") do that? and to the OP about the hardware, even a cheap grandsteam ATA will work just fine... that's what I use on my personal fax machine and it has no issues. I can't recall a time this year a fax has failed. This is going over the public internet and then also back out to a voip provider. We do use decent networks but that's about it. No QoS anywhere down the line. ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Fax Machine Options
Andreas van dem Helge wrote: > Cisco gateway with T.38 support. That's the only real way to do faxing > through asterisk. Although this statement has marginally more truth to it given the SIP-only context that the original poster provided, it is still substantially inaccurate. There are several ways to do T.38 other than with a Cisco gateway. Now, if you meant that T.38 is the only way in the SIP-only context (and not specifically Cisco-branded T.38) then that has significantly more accuracy to it. However, if by *real* you also mean *reliable* then be aware that T.38 over SIP/UDP has an inherent weakness due to the medium that make it, in my experience, significantly less-reliable than simply having a fax machine hooked up to a traditional analog line. When my clients come to me with the same issue I generally do not push them into a corner with T.38. In almost all cases they find that it is worth the $20-50 monthly for the analog fax line... and if that expense is too much then the on-line fax service provider is an easy recommendation. Note that if you have a fax machine that performs some variant of T.37 (fax-over-email) and you have an on-line service provider that is willing to work with you... then you can rather easily get your fax machine faxing through their service. (Which is yet another option.) Thanks, Lee. ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Fax Machine Options
Cisco gateway with T.38 support. That's the only real way to do faxing through asterisk. I think a VG200 with newer firmware will support SIP + T.38 but don't buy on my suggestion because I've never used that device outside call manager configuration. Or see if your VoIP provider supports T.38 fax but you must use SIP in that case. It will work very well once you get it working hint: check udptl.conf On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 11:27 PM, Joseph L. Casale <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is my only solution to add a fax machine to our VOIP only setup by using an > IAXy? > I should specify the office people want a traditional fax machine in the > sense that > > fax's be sent and received from a physical unit, they don't want an email to > fax setup. > They have a dedicated sip did provisioned just for the fax. > > > > What are others using? > > > > Thanks! > jlc > > ___ > -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- > > asterisk-users mailing list > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[asterisk-users] Fax Machine Options
Is my only solution to add a fax machine to our VOIP only setup by using an IAXy? I should specify the office people want a traditional fax machine in the sense that fax's be sent and received from a physical unit, they don't want an email to fax setup. They have a dedicated sip did provisioned just for the fax. What are others using? Thanks! jlc ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
