[asterisk-users] VOIP Bandwidth questions
Hello everyone, This probably isn't the correct place to ask this but I thought I'd check here first. We're getting ready to roll out a hosted pbx solution on a very limited trial basis (some company employees are going to get voip service at home). Our main issue is of course bandwidth. We have enough bandwidth (spread across two locations) to accommodate the few employees (around 10) for the near future but we're worried about how this is going to scale. Obviously at some point we'll need to consider 'real' bandwidth. My question is this: How do huge voip companies like vonage handle bandwidth. I'm pretty sure that they have to have sufficient bandwidth available for X numbers of simultaneous calls, in other words ALL VOIP traffic runs through their servers, right? My boss is of the mind that there is no way that this is a viable business model and his insistence has me doubting myself. So, to clarify - Vonage has to have the necessary bandwidth to handle whatever amount of simultaneous calls. I can imagine that one vonage user calling another vonage user would use some sort of sip re-invite and perhaps even calls to other huge providers (packet8) are direct client to client. (Last time I read about this it seems that even calls to other large voip providers go through the PSTN though). Barring voip to voip calls, everything must run through their bandwidth right? If I'm right on this, I guess we need to come up with some sort of viable business model to do sell our own service. I want to concentrate on smb clients to whom we can then provide an asterisk box which would leave our bandwidth free, but my boss isn't particularly keen on this route. Anyways, Thanks for any insight and advice on this question, sorry if I'm asking this in the wrong place Thanks, Steve ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] VOIP Bandwidth questions
This one will surely heat up. Usually the telcos have to calculate the subscribers vs telco capacity. I use simple figures, so extrapolate this to millions of customers, millions of lines, peak amount of calls at any given time of the day and of course houndreds,thousands of millions of dollars in equipment. For example: Telco A has 100 subscribers to his phone service in a city (home and business), so he needs to ask himself a- Will the telco buy a switch that can handle 100 calls simultaneously? So he can provide service to his subscribers 100% of the time at any time of the day even during riots,panic,flood,etc? b- Or will the telco go for a balance and guess that at the peak time of the day he will have 75 simultaneous call, so he goes out and buy a switch that handles 75-80 calls at the same time? c- how many trunks will the Telco have to talk to other telcos? So telco in City A can communicate with Telco in city B (or even in the same city)? International voice providers suffer from this kind of problem. Some sell plastic cards with a local phone number and a pin so you call them to call to other cities/countries but that cheap voice provider has, let's say, ten thousand long distance lines and ten thousand local phone numbers, but they sell 100k plastic cards a month with a peak usage 3 times every ten days of 12thousand lines? obviously 2 thousand callers wont get connected (only 3 times every ten days in a specific time range) but the other 7 days the peak usage is 10thousand calls? Every ten days the provider try to connect 106k calls but fail to connect 6k calls, that's 6% failure rate every ten days (100% in a 7 days period and 98% in those 3 days). Can you live with that failure ratio? that's up to you. I don't work for a Telco, but a Telco may apply the dialup-internet rule (and they live happy with it) for 30subscribers-to-1line home users and 10(or 5)subscribers-to-1line for business. (correct me if I'm wrong please it will be nice to know real figures). So apply the same rule to you VoIP hosting. -What codec will you use? let say g711 and let's say it uses 100kilobits per leg. -How many subscribers will you have in a 6 month period? 500 -So to provide all of them with service you will need 48Megabits of bandwith all the time just to connect to your Telco equipments. - But you decide that you analyzed the usage patterns of your service and you will have only 125 subscribers calling other 125 subscribers (this is called On-Net) at peak time every day at 6pm (rush hour). So, go out and buy 24mbits of bandwidth only. - But you suddenly have the option to hire burst IP service where your IP carrier can provide you with more bandwidth if your usage starts to rise in any given time of the day. So you calculate again that your minimum constant usage at any time of the day is 40 users On-Net, so go out and buy 5mbits (for a total of 50 calls) of bandwidth with burst IP enabled from 6pm to 8pm of 48mbits (or 24mbits). This scenario is only subscriberyour_companysubscriber. you also need to calculate subscriber--your_companyother_telcos And the last but most important question is: how much money do you have to burn on this? 100% Uptime full-service, Top Carrier Class performance (and even they get busy sometimes)? or almost perfect service with the once-in-awhile glitch of we're sorry all circuits are busy, please try again. Hope this helps, How many times (at least in my country) haven't you suffered from Im sorry all circuits are busy, please try again during christmas midnight, new years eve, election days or similar behaviors that cause massive amounts of calls being initiated and received? So the answer to your question On 11/2/06, mail-lists [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello everyone, This probably isn't the correct place to ask this but I thought I'd check here first. We're getting ready to roll out a hosted pbx solution on a very limited trial basis (some company employees are going to get voip service at home). Our main issue is of course bandwidth. We have enough bandwidth (spread across two locations) to accommodate the few employees (around 10) for the near future but we're worried about how this is going to scale. Obviously at some point we'll need to consider 'real' bandwidth. My question is this: How do huge voip companies like vonage handle bandwidth. I'm pretty sure that they have to have sufficient bandwidth available for X numbers of simultaneous calls, in other words ALL VOIP traffic runs through their servers, right? My boss is of the mind that there is no way that this is a viable business model and his insistence has me doubting myself. So, to clarify - Vonage has to have the necessary bandwidth to handle whatever amount of simultaneous calls. I can imagine that one vonage user calling another vonage user would use some sort of sip re-invite and perhaps even calls to other huge providers (packet8) are direct client to client. (Last time I read about
Re: [asterisk-users] VOIP Bandwidth questions
I forgot to tell that my rant is about a centrally handled servers, with no re-invite and no spider-like interconnects with smaller, geographically located switches. On 11/2/06, Erick Perez [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This one will surely heat up. Usually the telcos have to calculate the subscribers vs telco capacity. I use simple figures, so extrapolate this to millions of customers, millions of lines, peak amount of calls at any given time of the day and of course houndreds,thousands of millions of dollars in equipment. For example: Telco A has 100 subscribers to his phone service in a city (home and business), so he needs to ask himself a- Will the telco buy a switch that can handle 100 calls simultaneously? So he can provide service to his subscribers 100% of the time at any time of the day even during riots,panic,flood,etc? b- Or will the telco go for a balance and guess that at the peak time of the day he will have 75 simultaneous call, so he goes out and buy a switch that handles 75-80 calls at the same time? c- how many trunks will the Telco have to talk to other telcos? So telco in City A can communicate with Telco in city B (or even in the same city)? International voice providers suffer from this kind of problem. Some sell plastic cards with a local phone number and a pin so you call them to call to other cities/countries but that cheap voice provider has, let's say, ten thousand long distance lines and ten thousand local phone numbers, but they sell 100k plastic cards a month with a peak usage 3 times every ten days of 12thousand lines? obviously 2 thousand callers wont get connected (only 3 times every ten days in a specific time range) but the other 7 days the peak usage is 10thousand calls? Every ten days the provider try to connect 106k calls but fail to connect 6k calls, that's 6% failure rate every ten days (100% in a 7 days period and 98% in those 3 days). Can you live with that failure ratio? that's up to you. I don't work for a Telco, but a Telco may apply the dialup-internet rule (and they live happy with it) for 30subscribers-to-1line home users and 10(or 5)subscribers-to-1line for business. (correct me if I'm wrong please it will be nice to know real figures). So apply the same rule to you VoIP hosting. -What codec will you use? let say g711 and let's say it uses 100kilobits per leg. -How many subscribers will you have in a 6 month period? 500 -So to provide all of them with service you will need 48Megabits of bandwith all the time just to connect to your Telco equipments. - But you decide that you analyzed the usage patterns of your service and you will have only 125 subscribers calling other 125 subscribers (this is called On-Net) at peak time every day at 6pm (rush hour). So, go out and buy 24mbits of bandwidth only. - But you suddenly have the option to hire burst IP service where your IP carrier can provide you with more bandwidth if your usage starts to rise in any given time of the day. So you calculate again that your minimum constant usage at any time of the day is 40 users On-Net, so go out and buy 5mbits (for a total of 50 calls) of bandwidth with burst IP enabled from 6pm to 8pm of 48mbits (or 24mbits). This scenario is only subscriberyour_companysubscriber. you also need to calculate subscriber--your_companyother_telcos And the last but most important question is: how much money do you have to burn on this? 100% Uptime full-service, Top Carrier Class performance (and even they get busy sometimes)? or almost perfect service with the once-in-awhile glitch of we're sorry all circuits are busy, please try again. On 11/2/06, mail-lists [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello everyone, This probably isn't the correct place to ask this but I thought I'd check here first. We're getting ready to roll out a hosted pbx solution on a very limited trial basis (some company employees are going to get voip service at home). Our main issue is of course bandwidth. We have enough bandwidth (spread across two locations) to accommodate the few employees (around 10) for the near future but we're worried about how this is going to scale. Obviously at some point we'll need to consider 'real' bandwidth. My question is this: How do huge voip companies like vonage handle bandwidth. I'm pretty sure that they have to have sufficient bandwidth available for X numbers of simultaneous calls, in other words ALL VOIP traffic runs through their servers, right? My boss is of the mind that there is no way that this is a viable business model and his insistence has me doubting myself. So, to clarify - Vonage has to have the necessary bandwidth to handle whatever amount of simultaneous calls. I can imagine that one vonage user calling another vonage user would use some sort of sip re-invite and perhaps even calls to other huge providers (packet8) are direct client to client. (Last time I read about this it seems that even calls to other large voip providers go through
Re: [asterisk-users] VOIP Bandwidth questions
On Thu, Nov 02, 2006 at 02:47:42PM -0500, Erick Perez wrote: This one will surely heat up. Usually the telcos have to calculate the subscribers vs telco capacity. I use simple figures, so extrapolate this to millions of customers, millions of lines, peak amount of calls at any given time of the day and of course houndreds,thousands of millions of dollars in equipment. Do a google on Erlangs ... Steve -- NetTek Ltd UK mob +44-(0)7775 755503 UK +44-(0)20 79932612 / US +1-(310)8577715 / Fax +44-(0)20 7483 2455 Skype/GoogleTalk/AIM/Gizmo/Mac stevekennedyuk / MSN [EMAIL PROTECTED] Euro Tech News Blog http://eurotechnews.blogspot.com ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] VOIP Bandwidth questions
Capacity is planned using Erlang Formulae which is a medium complexity statistical model mainly used for voice communications trunk occupation and switching capacity. Some idea of bandwith usage might be obtained using the simple calculators at www.voipcalculator.com Regards, Jorge A. Erick Perez wrote: This one will surely heat up. Usually the telcos have to calculate the subscribers vs telco capacity. I use simple figures, so extrapolate this to millions of customers, millions of lines, peak amount of calls at any given time of the day and of course houndreds,thousands of millions of dollars in equipment. For example: Telco A has 100 subscribers to his phone service in a city (home and business), so he needs to ask himself a- Will the telco buy a switch that can handle 100 calls simultaneously? So he can provide service to his subscribers 100% of the time at any time of the day even during riots,panic,flood,etc? b- Or will the telco go for a balance and guess that at the peak time of the day he will have 75 simultaneous call, so he goes out and buy a switch that handles 75-80 calls at the same time? c- how many trunks will the Telco have to talk to other telcos? So telco in City A can communicate with Telco in city B (or even in the same city)? International voice providers suffer from this kind of problem. Some sell plastic cards with a local phone number and a pin so you call them to call to other cities/countries but that cheap voice provider has, let's say, ten thousand long distance lines and ten thousand local phone numbers, but they sell 100k plastic cards a month with a peak usage 3 times every ten days of 12thousand lines? obviously 2 thousand callers wont get connected (only 3 times every ten days in a specific time range) but the other 7 days the peak usage is 10thousand calls? Every ten days the provider try to connect 106k calls but fail to connect 6k calls, that's 6% failure rate every ten days (100% in a 7 days period and 98% in those 3 days). Can you live with that failure ratio? that's up to you. I don't work for a Telco, but a Telco may apply the dialup-internet rule (and they live happy with it) for 30subscribers-to-1line home users and 10(or 5)subscribers-to-1line for business. (correct me if I'm wrong please it will be nice to know real figures). So apply the same rule to you VoIP hosting. -What codec will you use? let say g711 and let's say it uses 100kilobits per leg. -How many subscribers will you have in a 6 month period? 500 -So to provide all of them with service you will need 48Megabits of bandwith all the time just to connect to your Telco equipments. - But you decide that you analyzed the usage patterns of your service and you will have only 125 subscribers calling other 125 subscribers (this is called On-Net) at peak time every day at 6pm (rush hour). So, go out and buy 24mbits of bandwidth only. - But you suddenly have the option to hire burst IP service where your IP carrier can provide you with more bandwidth if your usage starts to rise in any given time of the day. So you calculate again that your minimum constant usage at any time of the day is 40 users On-Net, so go out and buy 5mbits (for a total of 50 calls) of bandwidth with burst IP enabled from 6pm to 8pm of 48mbits (or 24mbits). This scenario is only subscriberyour_companysubscriber. you also need to calculate subscriber--your_companyother_telcos And the last but most important question is: how much money do you have to burn on this? 100% Uptime full-service, Top Carrier Class performance (and even they get busy sometimes)? or almost perfect service with the once-in-awhile glitch of we're sorry all circuits are busy, please try again. Hope this helps, How many times (at least in my country) haven't you suffered from Im sorry all circuits are busy, please try again during christmas midnight, new years eve, election days or similar behaviors that cause massive amounts of calls being initiated and received? So the answer to your question On 11/2/06, mail-lists [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello everyone, This probably isn't the correct place to ask this but I thought I'd check here first. We're getting ready to roll out a hosted pbx solution on a very limited trial basis (some company employees are going to get voip service at home). Our main issue is of course bandwidth. We have enough bandwidth (spread across two locations) to accommodate the few employees (around 10) for the near future but we're worried about how this is going to scale. Obviously at some point we'll need to consider 'real' bandwidth. My question is this: How do huge voip companies like vonage handle bandwidth. I'm pretty sure that they have to have sufficient bandwidth available for X numbers of simultaneous calls, in other words ALL VOIP traffic runs through their servers, right? My boss is of the mind that there is no way that this is
