Re: [asterisk-users] Which VoIP router and switch to use for medium size business
On 3/10/07, Lacy Moore - Aspendora [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/10/07, Henry Cobb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So get a second broadband connection and run only voice on it. Has anyone tried this? I have been thinking about this. We're getting so much spam that I think it's taking up too much of our bandwidth. I'm wondering how much bandwidth all the script kiddies take up scanning things as well. That won't be a problem if you've got almost every port blocked at the firewall. Sell this to your client on the basis of uptime. You wouldn't want your phones to be unusable just because your ISP has a routing problem. Buy two links of the same size from two different kinds of providers and put the tiny trickle of voice on the best link and your hordes of data on the non so good link. Then sign up for two different VoIP providers and use whichever is best on your best internet link as your primary with the other as backup. Then all you have to do is ensure that everything on the phone to internet route has UPS protection. (A standby PBX PC wouldn't hurt either.) -HJC ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Which VoIP router and switch to use for medium size business
On Sun, 11 Mar 2007, Henry Cobb wrote: On 3/10/07, Lacy Moore - Aspendora [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 3/10/07, Henry Cobb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So get a second broadband connection and run only voice on it. Has anyone tried this? I have been thinking about this. We're getting so much spam that I think it's taking up too much of our bandwidth. I'm wondering how much bandwidth all the script kiddies take up scanning things as well. That won't be a problem if you've got almost every port blocked at the firewall. Is is a problem, even blocking ports because by the time the packet gets to your firewall, it's already come over the wires to the firewall. Your firewall may well just dump it in the bit-bucket, but it's still taken up wire time. Someone flooding large packets to your router really can screw you up no-matter what you do on your firewall. This is also why inbound QoS is only a reasonable-effort at the best of times... I've found that spam email is much more a problem than the odd port probe though in terms of data flowing through a server/router )-: Buy two links of the same size from two different kinds of providers and put the tiny trickle of voice on the best link and your hordes of data on the non so good link. Then sign up for two different VoIP providers and use whichever is best on your best internet link as your primary with the other as backup. Then all you have to do is ensure that everything on the phone to internet route has UPS protection. (A standby PBX PC wouldn't hurt either.) And then some muppet in a JCB comes long and digs up both wires which are in the same trench ;-) Gordon ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Which VoIP router and switch to use for medium size business
On Fri, 9 Mar 2007, Zeeshan Zakaria wrote: Gordon, thanks for such a detailed and full of information email. It helped me and must have helped hundreds of others on this mailing list. It's quite a simplistic approach really - I think it'seasier to do physical separation at times than dive into the weird and whacky world of QoS, etc... In my scenario, for this client whom I am working for, their main issue has always been echo. They have about 50 extensions, with 20 in the office, busy office, calls all the time, up to 5 at any given time, 10 remote extensions and other virtual extensions just for voicemail purposes. 5 IVRs and 4 queues, one VoIP line and main trunk a T1 PRI. PRI is used for all incoming and outgoing calls except for long distance calls where VoIP line is used. I woudln't be sure that the echo is caused by the internal network. I'd be fairly sure that if you separated the asterisk box from the rest of the network that you'd still hear echo... Ethernet switches do switch very well and as long as they don't have internal issues then 2 devices connecting point to point over the switch really should look like a bit of wire. You haven't said, but maybe you have the phones wired in-line? In which case the PC behind the phone talking to another PC or server on the network might well interrupt the phone calls, but even then I'm not sure it would introduce echo. If they are doing P2P down/uploading over the Internet, then unless you have a very high speed Internet connection (over 10Mb/sec!) then that's unlikely to interfere with the VoIP traffic, even without QoS. One thing to do is make sure everything is talking the right speed though - make sure the ethernet switch realyl is a switch an not a passive hub. (if it has a collision LED then it's a hub and should be thrown in the bin) and make sure all ports come up at 100Mb (or 1Gb if it's a Gb switch) full duplex. I am thinking of going with HWEC and also using a good QoS switch. Right now there is only one switch (don't remember the name) and it is handling all the VoIP and data traffic. Sometimes voice breaks, and it must be because of interference from data traffic. But this is not a very serious problem and one switch with QoS should be able to handle it. Am I right here? Even if someone starts using P2P software. There is a lot of information on the wiki about Echo. Mostly to do with analogue lines though and I've as yet, no 1st hand experience with BRI or PRI circuits Start here: http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/Asterisk+echo+cancellation Current router is a linksys WRT54GL - Wireless-G Broadband Router. Is it good enough if I get a good switch? Can you suggest which switch I should get. I was looking on the Internet and found switches like Adtran NetVanta which are very expensive. What do they do which makes them so expensive? And in my case, is that the type of switch which I need or is there something cheaper out there too. I am ok without PoE. That has a 4-port 10/100 switch and I'm guessing your internet connection is cable (or you have another upstream ADSL modem). I've had good results with DLink switches and Netgear switches. Even Cisco switches work ok, if a shade on the expensive side. (but no-one got sacked for buying cisco ... yet ;-) If you want a reasonable switch that has most features you need, I'd look at: http://www.netgear.co.uk/smart_switch_fs726t.php but I've no 1st hand experience of them, and they're 10/100 only (with 2 Gb ports - and I'd connect one to the asterisk box, the other to the router on the 'VoIP' switch, and on the other, one to a server if they have one and one to the router) So for 20 PCs and 20 phones, you'll need 2 of these. You typically pay a premium on ethernet switches for management. This will give you some sort of command interface to the switch (web, serial, telnet) to let you fiddle with it - set link type/speeds, enable snmp monitoring, create VLANs, and so on. I'm not convinced of the requirement for this in a small office, but it may be features management desire... If you can get the echo cracked on the office extensions out through the T1 line, then all ought to be fine. But if you have a lot of remote SIP users then you might have problems with your internet line - then you need to see if you can enable QoS on the router - which may help, but theres almost mothing you can do to shape incoming traffic, as by the time the rotuer see it to shape it, it's too late, as it's already come over the wire... So your single SIP outgoing line might suffer, as well as your incoming remote SIP users if you have a lot of people on the LAN doing heavy interweb stuff... You might even want to start monitoring the router, if possible using traffic graphing software like MRTG, etc. Good luck! Gordon ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Which VoIP router and switch to use for medium size business
On 3/9/07, Zeeshan Zakaria [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am thinking of going with HWEC and also using a good QoS switch. Right now there is only one switch (don't remember the name) and it is handling all the VoIP and data traffic. Sometimes voice breaks, and it must be because of interference from data traffic. But this is not a very serious problem and one switch with QoS should be able to handle it. Am I right here? Even if someone starts using P2P software. Not a chance. Most of your traffic is doubtlessly downloads such as web and spam mail. A QoS device on your side of the link can only reduce the amount of stuff you send (which isn't much) and can't do anything about the massive amount of downloaded stuff that is getting in the way of voice packets being sent to you. So get a second broadband connection and run only voice on it. -HJC ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Which VoIP router and switch to use for medium size business
On 3/10/07, Henry Cobb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So get a second broadband connection and run only voice on it. Has anyone tried this? I have been thinking about this. We're getting so much spam that I think it's taking up too much of our bandwidth. I'm wondering how much bandwidth all the script kiddies take up scanning things as well. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Which VoIP router and switch to use for medium size business
Lacy Moore - Aspendora wrote: Has anyone tried this? This is how I do serious installations. I use a cheap ADSL connection for browsing traffic and a dedicated feed for voice. Dual hjome the machine, run shorewall setup for two ISPs, and write the rules to route accordingly. -- Chris Mason (264) 497-5670 Fax: (264) 497-8463 Int: (305) 704-7249 Fax: (815)301-9759 UK 44.207.183.0271 Cell: 264-235-5670 Yahoo IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Which VoIP router and switch to use for medium size business
On Sat, 10 Mar 2007, Lacy Moore - Aspendora wrote: On 3/10/07, Henry Cobb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So get a second broadband connection and run only voice on it. Has anyone tried this? Intersting idea. One of the VoIP providers in the UK (where I am) recomends this for small businesses, but I fear that with the standard offering you're still at the 50:1 or 20:1 contention ratios that BT provide the ADSL wholesalers. (And it's £107 for a new phone line install, and £12 a month, and that puts some companies off - until you show them how much an ISDN30 costs...) One company is claiming they bypass the Internet side of it all entirely and can give you dedicated ADSL lines that go right into their (MPLS) network - they call it VxDSL, but I'm not 100% sure how they're doing this... I have been thinking about this. We're getting so much spam that I think it's taking up too much of our bandwidth. I'm wondering how much bandwidth all the script kiddies take up scanning things as well. On my servers and systems I look after, spam email is many many more times the volume than the port-scanners. P2P file-sharing is more of a concern to me than port scanning ... Gordon___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Which VoIP router and switch to use for medium size business
On Fri, 9 Mar 2007, Zeeshan Zakaria wrote: Hi everybody, What is a proper setup for a medium size business with about 20 IP phones and 20 computers. Right now they are using a regular Linksys router which we use at homes. Their switch is also a very standard switch. Now they need to put there something better and VoIP compatible. What people use out there in serious and professional VoIP installations for medium size businesses? Is there a good 24 port router with VoIP compatibility with no need of an extra switch? Please advice me for all the equipment I'd need for a complete network upgrade. You'd need to supply more details for a detailled answer, (like what's the budget ;-) and why do you think you need something better? What do you currently have, and are they actually having problems at present, or it is just a percieved problem? But if this was me, and it was a green site installation, and money was a bit of a consideration (it usually is IME for small businesses unless they are new, VC funded with millions in the bank and Porsches in the car park ;-), So I'd start with 2 decent enough 24-port Ethernet switches and run at least 2 Ethernet lines to each desk (one for the PC, one for the phone) back to a patch panel (actually, these days, I run 4 to each desk, but a lot depends on the type of company!) You might want to investigate switches with PoE capabilities - in an ideal world this would be good, but it adds to the expense, and watch out for their power carrying ability - some can only power 8 of 16 sockets for example - 20 phones at 6W each is 120W which is quite a bit to add to the PSU capacity of a little 1U Ethernet switch! Some switches can let use use 15W per port, for 8 ports, or 7.5W for 16 ports - the Grandstream phones I use claim to suck no more than 6W - is that lucky or what ;-) I'd steer away from using the in-line connections that many IP phones have - unless you were desperately short of cabling capabiltiy, or money. (but I have used the switch facilities on Grandstream GXP phones in an small office environment where I didn't have much choice and not had any issues with it. (Although if you reboot or unplug the phone, it takes the PC offline!) Make sure the switch in the phone is a switch if you need to use it! In the Grandstream Budgetone 100's it's a 10Mb HUB, not a 10/100 switch!) Then plug all phones and the asterisk box into one switch and all PCs and servers into the other. You can then plug each switch into the router, if it has a switch of it's own, (a lot of the netgear ADSL routers have built-in 4-port switches) or have a small 3rd top-level switch to connect the 2 switches and rotuer together. or you can daisy-chain the switches into the router if it only has one port. So without doing anything special, this will keep VoIP traffic inside one switch and PC/PC/Server traffic inside the other and by the switching nature of the switches, stop traffic from PC to PC/Server interfering with switched VoIP traffic on the other switch. If you can't afford the luxury of separate Ethernet switches, then you might need to look into something a bit more exotic and use Layer 2 QoS/801.p/VLan services, etc. The above isn't perfect, but for your average small office, it's hard to beat for a price. Things can go wrong though - someone plugging a PC into the VoIP switch, then running network traffic intensive apps to other PCs or servers (games, viruses). Broadcast/APR storms but these are rare these days (however if you want to experiment, loopback 2 ethernet ports and stand well back!) Some switches will detect this and suppress excessive ARP broadcast traffic though. Your router choice will depends on what you are trying to achieve - if you are placing calls over the Internet, then you might want a router which has QoS functions - however, the reality is that you can only effectively use QoS when you control every aspect of the link - which with most ISPs you can't. (And you don't say if you have an ADSL, Cable, Leased line, etc. connection - not that it matters that much, however) Most routers will make a good effort though, but over the big bad Internet (and incoming data to your site in particular) you have no control over. Saying that, with a good ISP and reasonable staff, most of the time you get away with it, and I regularly chat with my clients and friends over the 'net even when I know some of them have no QoS at all on their company routers. One site in particular has 100 staff, a 4Mb Internet line and I regularly make calls over their non QoS'd Internet line to other sites without any issues at all. (But it just takes one person running some agressive P2P software to kill it for everyone!) If you are running VPNs to other sites, make sure the router is up to it! After many years of using Drayteks, I now find them a PITA as they can only sustain about 1.5Mb/sec through an encrypted VPN and with
Re: [asterisk-users] Which VoIP router and switch to use for medium size business
Gordon, thanks for such a detailed and full of information email. It helped me and must have helped hundreds of others on this mailing list. In my scenario, for this client whom I am working for, their main issue has always been echo. They have about 50 extensions, with 20 in the office, busy office, calls all the time, up to 5 at any given time, 10 remote extensions and other virtual extensions just for voicemail purposes. 5 IVRs and 4 queues, one VoIP line and main trunk a T1 PRI. PRI is used for all incoming and outgoing calls except for long distance calls where VoIP line is used. I am thinking of going with HWEC and also using a good QoS switch. Right now there is only one switch (don't remember the name) and it is handling all the VoIP and data traffic. Sometimes voice breaks, and it must be because of interference from data traffic. But this is not a very serious problem and one switch with QoS should be able to handle it. Am I right here? Even if someone starts using P2P software. Current router is a linksys WRT54GL - Wireless-G Broadband Router. Is it good enough if I get a good switch? Can you suggest which switch I should get. I was looking on the Internet and found switches like Adtran NetVanta which are very expensive. What do they do which makes them so expensive? And in my case, is that the type of switch which I need or is there something cheaper out there too. I am ok without PoE. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[asterisk-users] Which VoIP router and switch to use for medium size business
Hi everybody, What is a proper setup for a medium size business with about 20 IP phones and 20 computers. Right now they are using a regular Linksys router which we use at homes. Their switch is also a very standard switch. Now they need to put there something better and VoIP compatible. What people use out there in serious and professional VoIP installations for medium size businesses? Is there a good 24 port router with VoIP compatibility with no need of an extra switch? Please advice me for all the equipment I'd need for a complete network upgrade. Thanks -- Zeeshan A Zakaria ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
