Re: [Asterisk-Users] large analog to asterisk
Good point. Here is another Suggestion. Why not use the existing analog phones to their PBX and go out to channel banks for their phone line trunks. Then go to Asterisk for the rest. They don't have 700 trunks. This will save on equipment costs and you will get some of the benefits of Asterisk. It's not the best solution but it will work. Also if you do want to replace all you system with new phones then try my idea of using the cat 3 cable. As far as the switches gos, remember it's not the cable the determines the speed but the equipment connected to it. I have yet to see a sip phone above 10 Mb. So you can disregard Mr. Hamilton's statement about the switch. Yes you investment will be high, but that is a business expense. I'm currently doing that cat 3 trick. Don't worry about your customers connecting to your phone system. They won't know it's IP. John Novack wrote: Andy Hamilton wrote: And then you'd need to purchase 700 VoIP phones; not a small investment. With all due respect to Mr. Schelin, I think the analog method may be best, unless you plan to expand the services that you offer to the guests. If the rooms did have cat3, you could eventually expand your offering to include internet access for the guests, advanced phone features (on the IP phones), etc... Even Cat 3 anymore could be a real problem Most inexpensive hubs and switches are 10/100, with no way to lock them to 10 . Wear and tear on SIP phones, most hotels are used to paying 12-15 bucks for room phones, and some always end up walking away.. And then there is the issue of E911. Depending on the location, some jurisdictions, and I feel sure many more to come, are requiring E911 to know not only the street address but the room number. Good luck. Stick with the analog for now. John Novack ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] large analog to asterisk
The cat 3 issue depends on your phone, if you went with VoIP phones, you would need to make sure that it could be set/forced to 10Mbps. I have only used Cisco phones, and, save the 7910 and 7902 (may a few others), they all are fully capable of doing 100Mbps because of their internal switch (you can colocate a comptuer with the phone); you'd need to tell them to go 10. Cisco hardware would also be a huge investment for the hotel, most likely way more than what the average guest needs. Also, just FYI, the 7971does... gigabit ethernet!! That's pretty sweet. -Andy PS - Is the currently installed wiring cat3? On 4/16/05, Michael D Schelin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Good point. Here is another Suggestion. Why not use the existing analog phones to their PBX and go out to channel banks for their phone line trunks. Then go to Asterisk for the rest. They don't have 700 trunks. This will save on equipment costs and you will get some of the benefits of Asterisk. It's not the best solution but it will work. Also if you do want to replace all you system with new phones then try my idea of using the cat 3 cable. As far as the switches gos, remember it's not the cable the determines the speed but the equipment connected to it. I have yet to see a sip phone above 10 Mb. So you can disregard Mr. Hamilton's statement about the switch. Yes you investment will be high, but that is a business expense. I'm currently doing that cat 3 trick. Don't worry about your customers connecting to your phone system. They won't know it's IP. John Novack wrote: snip ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] large analog to asterisk
The way to do this in my opinion is to stay with analog phones in the room and *not* ip phones for a couple of reasons: With Cellphones the way they are right now, you will never recover and/or justify the costs ($60 per phone plus wiring for IP, vs $5 per phone and no wiring for analog). Over complicating the phone with too many features (as is the case with IP Phones), just makes ppl not use them, in an office environment you just train them. I think you should stay with analog phones, and use VOIP cards with the channel banks, and one asterisk box. ADIT 600 support a CMG card which allows you to use MGCP with up to 48 channels per card. There are 2 ways of configuring this: 1. For each 40 channels you use 1 CMG card (since it uses a slot you can't use 48 channel in a single Adit 600 chassis with a CMG card), this way you will be losing 8 channels per VOIP card since you can never use the resources of the card to for the 8 remaining channels is supports. 2. For each 4 adit 600 chassis you use a fifth one that has 2 quad T1 cards, and 4 CMG cards. You plug the 4 chassis to the 8 T1 ports, and you use the 4 CMG cards to convert up to 48 channels to VOIP (you can't use the built in t1 ports on an adit 600 if you use the CMG). You could also configure it relying that not all the rooms will make a call at the exact same moment. In which case you could modify #2 above with another Quad T1(for a total of 3), and only 3 CMG cards, and a total of seven Adit 600 chassis for each set. Plugging in the 12 T1s to the 3 Quad T1 cards, and this will allow for upto (48 *3) 144 simultaneuos conversations (50% of available ports), instead of 288 (12 * 24) 100% available ports. Hope this helps. On 4/15/05, Andy Hamilton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And then you'd need to purchase 700 VoIP phones; not a small investment. With all due respect to Mr. Schelin, I think the analog method may be best, unless you plan to expand the services that you offer to the guests. If the rooms did have cat3, you could eventually expand your offering to include internet access for the guests, advanced phone features (on the IP phones), etc... I stray from the topic. You'll be facing some sort of hardware investment aside from the server, I think, and that is either IP Phones or a lot of hardware to support the analog lines, per Rusty's suggestion. Granted, this will be a large project, I think it would be wise to weigh the benefits of going to IP Phones now that will most likely go mainstream in the near future or support an aging but solid analog technology. -Andy On 4/15/05, Michael D Schelin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If your rooms analog phones are wired with cat 3 cabling you can do 10 Mb over it. Convert all the rooms to Ethernet and use large switches. One Asterisk box should do the trick. Remember not every room will be using the phone system at the same time. This should work for you. shane fowler wrote: we are looking at the ability of being able to convert large phone system over to asterisk or if it's possible at all. The building is two sections containing a large office section (with data cabling) and the second section is a hotel with no data cabling. The first section is a no brainer with sip hard and soft phones but the hotel part is where the problem lies. The current count of rooms in the hotel is about 600...that's at a minimum 600 analog connections. Some rooms have 2-3 phones so as a rough number i'm saying 700 total. I see where some people use the Adit 600 to do up to 48 analog connections that trunks over 2 T1 connections back to asterisk but for 700 phones thats 15 Adits with 30 T1'show in the world would you do that?? just several asterisk servers with 2-3 Adits per server? is there any other way? I'm open to suggestions. Thanks.. Shane ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
RE: [Asterisk-Users] large analog to asterisk
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of shane fowler Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 10:10 AM To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Subject: [Asterisk-Users] large analog to asterisk 600 analog connections. Some rooms have 2-3 phones so as a rough number i'm saying 700 total. I see where some people use the Adit 600 to do up to 48 analog connections that trunks over 2 T1 connections back to asterisk but for 700 phones thats 15 Adits with 30 T1'show in the world would you do that?? just several asterisk servers with 2-3 Adits per server? is there any other way? I'm open to suggestions. Remember that in a hospitality environment, the volume of simultaneous calls is typically quite low, given the number of stations in the system. You could use 600's with the CMG-02 cards to backhaul to asterisk via MGCP. Asterisk's MGCP handling is not as robust as it might be, but it may serve your needs. Another option would be to bank on that high stations:calls ratio. In other words, you'll never need to provide 700 DS0's directly into the PBX. We spec'd a very similar (400 stations) hospitality system recently using a slug of Adtran 624's hanging off of an Adtran 830 equipped with 5 quad T1/PRI cards. Careful planning and dial-plan design can keep most inter-station traffic at the 830, with only those calls requiring trunk or PBX feature access traversing a small number of T1's between the 830 and the PBX (asterisk). -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.11 - Release Date: 04/14/2005 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] large analog to asterisk
The rule of thunb we use is 5% of the in-room stations will be in use at a time. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rusty Shackleford Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 10:45 AM To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion' Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] large analog to asterisk -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of shane fowler Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 10:10 AM To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Subject: [Asterisk-Users] large analog to asterisk 600 analog connections. Some rooms have 2-3 phones so as a rough number i'm saying 700 total. I see where some people use the Adit 600 to do up to 48 analog connections that trunks over 2 T1 connections back to asterisk but for 700 phones thats 15 Adits with 30 T1'show in the world would you do that?? just several asterisk servers with 2-3 Adits per server? is there any other way? I'm open to suggestions. Remember that in a hospitality environment, the volume of simultaneous calls is typically quite low, given the number of stations in the system. You could use 600's with the CMG-02 cards to backhaul to asterisk via MGCP. Asterisk's MGCP handling is not as robust as it might be, but it may serve your needs. Another option would be to bank on that high stations:calls ratio. In other words, you'll never need to provide 700 DS0's directly into the PBX. We spec'd a very similar (400 stations) hospitality system recently using a slug of Adtran 624's hanging off of an Adtran 830 equipped with 5 quad T1/PRI cards. Careful planning and dial-plan design can keep most inter-station traffic at the 830, with only those calls requiring trunk or PBX feature access traversing a small number of T1's between the 830 and the PBX (asterisk). -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.11 - Release Date: 04/14/2005 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.12 - Release Date: 4/15/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.12 - Release Date: 4/15/2005 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] large analog to asterisk
As others have already posted about methods to reduce the number of T1s into your Asterisk box, I will look at some other issues, and a differnt angle. On Fri, 2005-04-15 at 12:09 -0500, shane fowler wrote: we are looking at the ability of being able to convert large phone system over to asterisk or if it's possible at all. The building is two sections containing a large office section (with data cabling) and the second section is a hotel with no data cabling. The first section is a no brainer with sip hard and soft phones but the hotel part is where the problem lies. The current count of rooms in the hotel is about 600...that's at a minimum 600 analog connections. Some rooms have 2-3 phones so as a rough number i'm saying 700 total. I see where some people use the Adit 600 to do up to 48 analog connections that trunks over 2 T1 connections back to asterisk but for 700 phones thats 15 Adits with 30 T1'show in the world would you do that?? just several asterisk servers with 2-3 Adits per server? is there any other way? I'm open to suggestions. Remember you are dealing with Analog lines here. Most hotel rooms that have 3 or 4 phones, only have 1 line. They just have multiple extensions of the same line. A hotel room with one phone in the bathroom, one next to the bed, and one on a table, still only needs one DS0 from your Asterisk system. Unless the hotel has a really large cable plant, each room probably hits a wiring closet on it's floor. I would use the channel banks, large UPS, and a decent asterisk server (dual power supply, server quality hardware, mirrored drives) with a Quad T1 card (or two) for that floor. I would then use dual Gig E to connect your system. Probably to two differnt GigE switches, each on different floors of the hotel. A 600 room hotel would have at most 75-100 rooms per floor, which you can easily handle with a single Asterisk server. Per floor, even with your Quad T1 card, you should be looking at $3000-3500 for the server, $1K for the UPS (unless you Ebay the UPS), and then your channel banks. The only issue here will be cooling for the wiring closet. Harry Thanks.. Shane ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- Harry McGregor, Computing Manager Tucson Support Group - U.S. Geological Survey University of Arizona - Environment and Natural Resource Building 520-670-5574 (office) - [EMAIL PROTECTED] 520-661-7875 (Cell) - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The opinions/statements expressed herein are my own and should not be taken as a position, opinion, or endorsement of the University of Arizona or the U.S. Geological Survey. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] large analog to asterisk
Oh one more thing. There is a 300 foot limit to Ethernet. Also the minimum number of wires is 4. shane fowler wrote: we are looking at the ability of being able to convert large phone system over to asterisk or if it's possible at all. The building is two sections containing a large office section (with data cabling) and the second section is a hotel with no data cabling. The first section is a no brainer with sip hard and soft phones but the hotel part is where the problem lies. The current count of rooms in the hotel is about 600...that's at a minimum 600 analog connections. Some rooms have 2-3 phones so as a rough number i'm saying 700 total. I see where some people use the Adit 600 to do up to 48 analog connections that trunks over 2 T1 connections back to asterisk but for 700 phones thats 15 Adits with 30 T1'show in the world would you do that?? just several asterisk servers with 2-3 Adits per server? is there any other way? I'm open to suggestions. Thanks.. Shane ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] large analog to asterisk
If your rooms analog phones are wired with cat 3 cabling you can do 10 Mb over it. Convert all the rooms to Ethernet and use large switches. One Asterisk box should do the trick. Remember not every room will be using the phone system at the same time. This should work for you. shane fowler wrote: we are looking at the ability of being able to convert large phone system over to asterisk or if it's possible at all. The building is two sections containing a large office section (with data cabling) and the second section is a hotel with no data cabling. The first section is a no brainer with sip hard and soft phones but the hotel part is where the problem lies. The current count of rooms in the hotel is about 600...that's at a minimum 600 analog connections. Some rooms have 2-3 phones so as a rough number i'm saying 700 total. I see where some people use the Adit 600 to do up to 48 analog connections that trunks over 2 T1 connections back to asterisk but for 700 phones thats 15 Adits with 30 T1'show in the world would you do that?? just several asterisk servers with 2-3 Adits per server? is there any other way? I'm open to suggestions. Thanks.. Shane ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] large analog to asterisk
And then you'd need to purchase 700 VoIP phones; not a small investment. With all due respect to Mr. Schelin, I think the analog method may be best, unless you plan to expand the services that you offer to the guests. If the rooms did have cat3, you could eventually expand your offering to include internet access for the guests, advanced phone features (on the IP phones), etc... I stray from the topic. You'll be facing some sort of hardware investment aside from the server, I think, and that is either IP Phones or a lot of hardware to support the analog lines, per Rusty's suggestion. Granted, this will be a large project, I think it would be wise to weigh the benefits of going to IP Phones now that will most likely go mainstream in the near future or support an aging but solid analog technology. -Andy On 4/15/05, Michael D Schelin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If your rooms analog phones are wired with cat 3 cabling you can do 10 Mb over it. Convert all the rooms to Ethernet and use large switches. One Asterisk box should do the trick. Remember not every room will be using the phone system at the same time. This should work for you. shane fowler wrote: we are looking at the ability of being able to convert large phone system over to asterisk or if it's possible at all. The building is two sections containing a large office section (with data cabling) and the second section is a hotel with no data cabling. The first section is a no brainer with sip hard and soft phones but the hotel part is where the problem lies. The current count of rooms in the hotel is about 600...that's at a minimum 600 analog connections. Some rooms have 2-3 phones so as a rough number i'm saying 700 total. I see where some people use the Adit 600 to do up to 48 analog connections that trunks over 2 T1 connections back to asterisk but for 700 phones thats 15 Adits with 30 T1'show in the world would you do that?? just several asterisk servers with 2-3 Adits per server? is there any other way? I'm open to suggestions. Thanks.. Shane ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] large analog to asterisk
Andy Hamilton wrote: And then you'd need to purchase 700 VoIP phones; not a small investment. With all due respect to Mr. Schelin, I think the analog method may be best, unless you plan to expand the services that you offer to the guests. If the rooms did have cat3, you could eventually expand your offering to include internet access for the guests, advanced phone features (on the IP phones), etc... Even Cat 3 anymore could be a real problem Most inexpensive hubs and switches are 10/100, with no way to lock them to 10 . Wear and tear on SIP phones, most hotels are used to paying 12-15 bucks for room phones, and some always end up walking away.. And then there is the issue of E911. Depending on the location, some jurisdictions, and I feel sure many more to come, are requiring E911 to know not only the street address but the room number. Good luck. Stick with the analog for now. John Novack ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] large analog to asterisk
How does his choice of analog or ethernet/SIP phones in the rooms make a difference for E911? They'd still be interfacing with the same Asterisk box and using the same outgoing trunks. And if the setup handles E911 properly for one (which I don't believe would be possible), it would do it for the other. Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I really would like to know why this would make a difference so I don't get myself stuck in this situation at some point. A bit off-topic, but I'm interested to hear from the original poster why this hotel is considering an Asterisk install. What's there now? What is missing or what do they hope to gain? Unless they'te either expanding and outgrew or killed their current PBX (which it doesn't sound like they did) or don't have a PBX at all, what is the point of doing an install that is rather expensive no matter which way you approach it? Unless some of the more advanced features have become a requirement among their clientelle, is there really a return from investing what would be in the range of $25,000 (analog) or $125-15 (SIP) plus wiring/telco-setup/configuring/maintence? I'm not saying its a bad idea, but some information about what they're hoping to gain, the type of clientelle they have, and how much they're willing to spend (i.e. would they see a benefit to tying this into wiring ethernet to all the rooms for guest use and giving higher-end business clients nice SIP phones with features and internet access) would certianlly help identify the best way to approach the problem. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] large analog to asterisk
*snipped I'm not saying its a bad idea, but some information about what they're hoping to gain, the type of clientelle they have, and how much they're willing to spend (i.e. would they see a benefit to tying this into wiring ethernet to all the rooms for guest use and giving higher-end business clients nice SIP phones with features and internet access) would certianlly help identify the best way to approach the problem. i have no idea what this poster is dealing with. i do know that some 'smaller' hotel/motel's use centrex as not to bother themselves with 'basic' pbx functions. just food for thought. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
