RE: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card
I have not had any problems with hangup detection in N America. At least not with Sangoma cards in Eastern and Western Canada. As long as the central office your analog lines are connected to support kewlstart which means they momentarily disconnect the loop current when the other end hangs up. I think almost all if not all central offices support this now a days. That's the easy part. The problem I have run into is answer detection. A lot of central offices do not support this. If they do usually it is done by reversing the polarity. If lines don't have this then you have to set Asterisk to automatically just assumes the line is answered after it dials which is a problem for some things like forwarding to a landline phone or cell but still wanting to switch to voicemail if nobody answers after x seconds. The call progress detection in Asterisk that tries to listen to the sound to try figure out what is happening is not usable at all. Way too many false detections. -Original Message- From: Stephen Bosch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 11:59 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: On Monday 05 February 2007 8:26 am, Stefano Corsi wrote: Uhm... I still don't understand... Does call progress detection work fairly well for analog cards with the US telephony system, or it's still something experimental and randomly working? And if it's working in US, how difficult can it be to port it to the (for example) Italian system? Put it this way: Any serious Asterisk install that wants to pass the wife test will have progressinband turned off in a fairly short order. For those of us without first-hand experience here, what happens when using progressinband? My own experience is that call progress detection -- mostly with respect to remote hangup detection -- is spotty, and I'm in North America. As an alternative, what about having a device (let's say Inalp Patton gateways) connecting to the telco with ISDN and to Asterisk with ethernet/SIP. Should I get correct ANSWER detection (and thus correct billing CDR records) with this setup? I think you're starting to reach beyond what's practical. But yes, something like that would work just fine, because both ISDN BRI/PRI and SIP are digital protocols and employ the concept of line state beyond the simple on hook/offhook. ..and at this point, why wouldn't you just put a BRI card in the Asterisk server and skip the intermediate hardware? -Stephen- ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card
Stefano Corsi wrote: Eric \ManxPower\ Wieling wrote: There's still something I don't understand: when using a simple modem on an analog line, you get correct answers from the modem: NO ANSWER, BUSY, NO DIALTONE, etc... why is this possible with these TDM2400 cards that cost twenty times as much? I know that I'm probably missing something... could you help me understand what? Because the far end sends a carrier tone. Uhm... but wait: I remember old days modem to have also a VOICE return code... again, why should a 20$ box be able to detect VOICE while a 2000$ card shouldn't? This stuff is not done in the card, it is done in software in Asterisk (or Zaptel). Apparently nobody has cared enough to do the very complex audio processing and DSP work to make this work reliably . ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card
At 19.22 04/02/2007, you wrote: if you want exact cdr records, you must go digital. There's still something I don't understand: when using a simple modem on an analog line, you get correct answers from the modem: NO ANSWER, BUSY, NO DIALTONE, etc... why is this possible with these TDM2400 cards that cost twenty times as much? I know that I'm probably missing something... could you help me understand what? Because the far end sends a carrier tone. Ok, understood. I see there's a call progress detector for Asterisk that seems to work only with the US telephony system. In fact, when I try to use it in Italy, results are completely random... it partially works for local calls that last longer than 20 seconds, but doesn't absolutely work with call addressed to cell phones, for example. Is there a way to configure it to work with other telephone systems? Is there someone who has tried to do it, for example, with the italian telephony system or some other european telephony system? Thanks and best regards Stefano ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card
On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 09:28:52AM +0100, Stefano Corsi wrote: At 19.22 04/02/2007, you wrote: if you want exact cdr records, you must go digital. There's still something I don't understand: when using a simple modem on an analog line, you get correct answers from the modem: NO ANSWER, BUSY, NO DIALTONE, etc... why is this possible with these TDM2400 cards that cost twenty times as much? I know that I'm probably missing something... could you help me understand what? Because the far end sends a carrier tone. Ok, understood. I see there's a call progress detector for Asterisk that seems to work only with the US telephony system. In fact, when I try to use it in Italy, results are completely random... it partially works for local calls that last longer than 20 seconds, but doesn't absolutely work with call addressed to cell phones, for example. Is there a way to configure it to work with other telephone systems? Is there someone who has tried to do it, for example, with the italian telephony system or some other european telephony system? Try patching dsp.c :-( There are some tables there. You'll basically need to generate a new progzone. -- Tzafrir Cohen icq#16849755jabber:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +972-50-7952406 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.xorcom.com iax:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/tzafrir ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tzafrir Cohen Sent: 05 February 2007 08:59 To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 09:28:52AM +0100, Stefano Corsi wrote: At 19.22 04/02/2007, you wrote: if you want exact cdr records, you must go digital. There's still something I don't understand: when using a simple modem on an analog line, you get correct answers from the modem: NO ANSWER, BUSY, NO DIALTONE, etc... why is this possible with these TDM2400 cards that cost twenty times as much? I know that I'm probably missing something... could you help me understand what? Because the far end sends a carrier tone. Ok, understood. I see there's a call progress detector for Asterisk that seems to work only with the US telephony system. In fact, when I try to use it in Italy, results are completely random... it partially works for local calls that last longer than 20 seconds, but doesn't absolutely work with call addressed to cell phones, for example. Is there a way to configure it to work with other telephone systems? Is there someone who has tried to do it, for example, with the italian telephony system or some other european telephony system? Try patching dsp.c :-( There are some tables there. You'll basically need to generate a new progzone. -- Hi, Stefano, I can't agree that the line status given by a conventional Modem is due to the far end carrier, as it only gets that if the call connects... The general status results (No answer, Busy, No dialtone etc.) are generated by analysing the standard phone system tones. Tzafrir, Have you set the country codes both in Zaptel's config and for the wctdm24xx module? It's supposed to be a parameter for the module, but I've not managed to get that to work. I change the default country code in wctdm24xxp.c before compiling; original line (around line 431): static char *opermode = FCC; The table of values codes is around line 153. Robert Jenkins. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card
How does going digital help? George - Original Message - From: Matteo Brancaleoni [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Sent: Sunday, February 04, 2007 5:31 PM Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card Hi, On Sun, 2007-02-04 at 16:17 +0100, Stefano Corsi wrote: Hello, I have two TDM2400 card with some 40 FXS modules and 4 FXO modules. I would like use analogue lines for outboud calls. How is it possibile to detect ANSWER? you cannot. it's analogue, no signalling is done on it. unless you write dsp routines to detect the right things at the right moment :) if you want exact cdr records, you must go digital. greetings, matteo. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.24/668 - Release Date: 2/4/2007 1:30 AM ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card
On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 11:20:00AM -, Robert Jenkins wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tzafrir Cohen Sent: 05 February 2007 08:59 To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card On Mon, Feb 05, 2007 at 09:28:52AM +0100, Stefano Corsi wrote: At 19.22 04/02/2007, you wrote: if you want exact cdr records, you must go digital. There's still something I don't understand: when using a simple modem on an analog line, you get correct answers from the modem: NO ANSWER, BUSY, NO DIALTONE, etc... why is this possible with these TDM2400 cards that cost twenty times as much? I know that I'm probably missing something... could you help me understand what? Because the far end sends a carrier tone. Ok, understood. I see there's a call progress detector for Asterisk that seems to work only with the US telephony system. In fact, when I try to use it in Italy, results are completely random... it partially works for local calls that last longer than 20 seconds, but doesn't absolutely work with call addressed to cell phones, for example. Is there a way to configure it to work with other telephone systems? Is there someone who has tried to do it, for example, with the italian telephony system or some other european telephony system? Try patching dsp.c :-( There are some tables there. You'll basically need to generate a new progzone. -- Hi, Stefano, I can't agree that the line status given by a conventional Modem is due to the far end carrier, as it only gets that if the call connects... The general status results (No answer, Busy, No dialtone etc.) are generated by analysing the standard phone system tones. Tzafrir, Have you set the country codes both in Zaptel's config and for the wctdm24xx module? It's supposed to be a parameter for the module, but I've not managed to get that to work. in /etc/modprobe.conf or /etc/modprobe.d/zaptel options wctdm24xxp opermode=UK However: I change the default country code in wctdm24xxp.c before compiling; original line (around line 431): static char *opermode = FCC; The table of values codes is around line 153. opermode is a different thing. It refers to lower level timings, impedences, voltages, currents, and such. Having less places to change the country settings would be nice, though. -- Tzafrir Cohen icq#16849755jabber:[EMAIL PROTECTED] +972-50-7952406 mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.xorcom.com iax:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/tzafrir ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card
On Monday 05 February 2007 5:18 am, George Camilleri wrote: How does going digital help? Digital calls have a state associated with them. They can tell if the far end actually picked up (i.e. answered) or not. Analog devices can't do this, or rather you can make them try (progressdetect) but it's difficult and as such, results are unpredictable. -A. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card
At 13.44 05/02/2007, you wrote: On Monday 05 February 2007 5:18 am, George Camilleri wrote: How does going digital help? Digital calls have a state associated with them. They can tell if the far end actually picked up (i.e. answered) or not. Analog devices can't do this, or rather you can make them try (progressdetect) but it's difficult and as such, results are unpredictable. Uhm... I still don't understand... Does call progress detection work fairly well for analog cards with the US telephony system, or it's still something experimental and randomly working? And if it's working in US, how difficult can it be to port it to the (for example) Italian system? As an alternative, what about having a device (let's say Inalp Patton gateways) connecting to the telco with ISDN and to Asterisk with ethernet/SIP. Should I get correct ANSWER detection (and thus correct billing CDR records) with this setup? Thanks and rgds Stefano ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card
Eric \ManxPower\ Wieling wrote: There's still something I don't understand: when using a simple modem on an analog line, you get correct answers from the modem: NO ANSWER, BUSY, NO DIALTONE, etc... why is this possible with these TDM2400 cards that cost twenty times as much? I know that I'm probably missing something... could you help me understand what? Because the far end sends a carrier tone. Uhm... but wait: I remember old days modem to have also a VOICE return code... again, why should a 20$ box be able to detect VOICE while a 2000$ card shouldn't? Rgds Stefano ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card
On Monday 05 February 2007 1:17 pm, Stefano Corsi wrote: Uhm... but wait: I remember old days modem to have also a VOICE return code... again, why should a 20$ box be able to detect VOICE while a 2000$ card shouldn't? Eric's wrong here; you're right. The modems of yore used inband audio detection, just like asterisk does. They stopped trying to detect inband progress once a carrier was detected though. :-) The TDM400/2400 does not have onboard DSP for detecting progress tones; this is done in asterisk itself (or the zaptel driver, I forget where the actual DSP work for progressinband is done). The algorithms and hardware used in the old modems probably did a much better job than the algorithms in Asterisk/Zaptel. This is just an area that needs some work. I don't think there is any attempt made in the code to STOP trying to detect tones once an ANSWER/BUSY/etc is detected. This, and the ability to turn OFF the hangup detection in the softdsp, and also perhaps detect an answer by way of no longer ringing, would make the asterisk/zaptel algorithm a lot more reliable. That introduces some interesting billing problems, but for most SOHO users, nobody cares whether the far end actually ANSWERED to say the number you have reached has been disconnected or not. Anyone who does care about that is using digital lines anyway, or rather they will once they get hosed on billing the first time. :-) In short: inband progress detection is an itch that nobody really seems to have. -A. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card
On Monday 05 February 2007 8:26 am, Stefano Corsi wrote: Uhm... I still don't understand... Does call progress detection work fairly well for analog cards with the US telephony system, or it's still something experimental and randomly working? And if it's working in US, how difficult can it be to port it to the (for example) Italian system? Put it this way: Any serious Asterisk install that wants to pass the wife test will have progressinband turned off in a fairly short order. As an alternative, what about having a device (let's say Inalp Patton gateways) connecting to the telco with ISDN and to Asterisk with ethernet/SIP. Should I get correct ANSWER detection (and thus correct billing CDR records) with this setup? I think you're starting to reach beyond what's practical. But yes, something like that would work just fine, because both ISDN BRI/PRI and SIP are digital protocols and employ the concept of line state beyond the simple on hook/offhook. -A. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card
Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: On Monday 05 February 2007 8:26 am, Stefano Corsi wrote: Uhm... I still don't understand... Does call progress detection work fairly well for analog cards with the US telephony system, or it's still something experimental and randomly working? And if it's working in US, how difficult can it be to port it to the (for example) Italian system? Put it this way: Any serious Asterisk install that wants to pass the wife test will have progressinband turned off in a fairly short order. For those of us without first-hand experience here, what happens when using progressinband? My own experience is that call progress detection -- mostly with respect to remote hangup detection -- is spotty, and I'm in North America. As an alternative, what about having a device (let's say Inalp Patton gateways) connecting to the telco with ISDN and to Asterisk with ethernet/SIP. Should I get correct ANSWER detection (and thus correct billing CDR records) with this setup? I think you're starting to reach beyond what's practical. But yes, something like that would work just fine, because both ISDN BRI/PRI and SIP are digital protocols and employ the concept of line state beyond the simple on hook/offhook. ...and at this point, why wouldn't you just put a BRI card in the Asterisk server and skip the intermediate hardware? -Stephen- ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card
On Monday 05 February 2007 2:58 pm, Stephen Bosch wrote: For those of us without first-hand experience here, what happens when using progressinband? spontaneous hangups are the biggest one. My own experience is that call progress detection -- mostly with respect to remote hangup detection -- is spotty, and I'm in North America. Exactly; I'm also in North America. ...and at this point, why wouldn't you just put a BRI card in the Asterisk server and skip the intermediate hardware? This is precisely why I said he was getting beyond the practical. :-) -A. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card
So what's the problem with connecting Asterisk to the telco with ISDN and forgetting about analogue cards? I think that you will get the correct records in the CDR and there should be no problems with billing etc. George - Original Message - From: Stefano Corsi [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 2:26 PM Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card At 13.44 05/02/2007, you wrote: On Monday 05 February 2007 5:18 am, George Camilleri wrote: How does going digital help? Digital calls have a state associated with them. They can tell if the far end actually picked up (i.e. answered) or not. Analog devices can't do this, or rather you can make them try (progressdetect) but it's difficult and as such, results are unpredictable. Uhm... I still don't understand... Does call progress detection work fairly well for analog cards with the US telephony system, or it's still something experimental and randomly working? And if it's working in US, how difficult can it be to port it to the (for example) Italian system? As an alternative, what about having a device (let's say Inalp Patton gateways) connecting to the telco with ISDN and to Asterisk with ethernet/SIP. Should I get correct ANSWER detection (and thus correct billing CDR records) with this setup? Thanks and rgds Stefano ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.24/668 - Release Date: 2/4/2007 1:30 AM ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card
Hi, On Sun, 2007-02-04 at 16:17 +0100, Stefano Corsi wrote: Hello, I have two TDM2400 card with some 40 FXS modules and 4 FXO modules. I would like use analogue lines for outboud calls. How is it possibile to detect ANSWER? you cannot. it's analogue, no signalling is done on it. unless you write dsp routines to detect the right things at the right moment :) if you want exact cdr records, you must go digital. greetings, matteo. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card
I have two TDM2400 card with some 40 FXS modules and 4 FXO modules. I would like use analogue lines for outboud calls. How is it possibile to detect ANSWER? you cannot. it's analogue, no signalling is done on it. unless you write dsp routines to detect the right things at the right moment :) if you want exact cdr records, you must go digital. There's still something I don't understand: when using a simple modem on an analog line, you get correct answers from the modem: NO ANSWER, BUSY, NO DIALTONE, etc... why is this possible with these TDM2400 cards that cost twenty times as much? I know that I'm probably missing something... could you help me understand what? Thanks Stefano ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card
Stefano Corsi wrote: I have two TDM2400 card with some 40 FXS modules and 4 FXO modules. I would like use analogue lines for outboud calls. How is it possibile to detect ANSWER? you cannot. it's analogue, no signalling is done on it. unless you write dsp routines to detect the right things at the right moment :) if you want exact cdr records, you must go digital. There's still something I don't understand: when using a simple modem on an analog line, you get correct answers from the modem: NO ANSWER, BUSY, NO DIALTONE, etc... why is this possible with these TDM2400 cards that cost twenty times as much? I know that I'm probably missing something... could you help me understand what? Because the far end sends a carrier tone. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Detecting answer with an analogue card
From: Eric \ManxPower\ Wieling [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stefano Corsi wrote: I have two TDM2400 card with some 40 FXS modules and 4 FXO modules. I would like use analogue lines for outboud calls. How is it possibile to detect ANSWER? you cannot. it's analogue, no signalling is done on it. unless you write dsp routines to detect the right things at the right moment :) if you want exact cdr records, you must go digital. There's still something I don't understand: when using a simple modem on an analog line, you get correct answers from the modem: NO ANSWER, BUSY, NO DIALTONE, etc... why is this possible with these TDM2400 cards that cost twenty times as much? I know that I'm probably missing something... could you help me understand what? Because the far end sends a carrier tone. Makes me wanting Asterisk to be able to drive MODEM protocols. Since X100P is just a soft MODEM, how possible is this? (If not V.92, V.22 would be useful.) Suppose Intel (or Motorola) has a Linux driver for the card, can it be used in conjunction with Asterisk so I can use AGI to do the MODEM part? Yuan Liu ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
