Re: [asterisk-users] Distributed FAX - How to best complement asterisk ?
Benny Amorsen wrote: PvK == Philipp von Klitzing [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: PvK Some of the bigger MFC printer/copy/fax combo devices by Brother PvK (and maybe also other vendors?) provide a fax-via-smtp feature PvK and can built fax networks that way. As far as I can tell, the Brother boxes require the user to enter fax-over-internet addresses as actual email addresses. There is no way to tell the machine to always use fax-over-internet, and there is also no way to configure a default domain. Asking fax users to select email and then type in [EMAIL PROTECTED] on a tiny little keyboard just won't fly. I don't understand why no fax vendors offer an easy fax-via-email user interface. And why on earth don't all the HP MFC's that have Ethernet and or Wireless and a Fax modem also have T.38 built in? I've got 2 of the damn things and the fax capability is useless to me. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Distributed FAX - How to best complement asterisk ?
On Tue, Oct 16, 2007 at 10:56:46AM +0200, John Hughes wrote: And why on earth don't all the HP MFC's that have Ethernet and or Wireless and a Fax modem also have T.38 built in? I've got 2 of the damn things and the fax capability is useless to me. For the same reason that fax modems in dedicated fax machines remain, by and large, completely unable to detect busy signal on outgoing calls, even though data modems have known how since about 1974? Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink [EMAIL PROTECTED] Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth Associates http://baylink.pitas.com '87 e24 St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274 ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Distributed FAX - How to best complement asterisk ?
JH == John Hughes [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: JH And why on earth don't all the HP MFC's that have Ethernet and or JH Wireless and a Fax modem also have T.38 built in? I've got 2 of JH the damn things and the fax capability is useless to me. T.38 would require actual code. T.37 is already implemented in the MFC series, their user interface just sucks. /Benny ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Distributed FAX - How to best complement asterisk ?
Olivier wrote: I was told yesterday (by Cantata guy) that T.38 demands a good level of QoS. That surprised me a lot as I thought the whole purpose of T.38 was to avoid SIP and ToIP latency. T.37 is the answer to reliability, but most people don't want to use it for totally stupid reasons. T.38 is a fudge to make real time FAX over IP less flaky. It isn't all that robust, it just isn't as awful as FAX over VoIP. Another editor (Interstar) told me T.38 passthrough doesn't work. That's not true. As long as the passthrough has fairly low latency (and, of course, a solid reliable implementation), it shouldn't impact the results. As devil lies in details and I couldn't get any, I'm not sure these words would be of any use. In a sane world all FAX would have been T.37 from a few months after that spec was released. :-) Steve ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Distributed FAX - How to best complement asterisk ?
Hello all, I'd like to thank everyone's input which I'll sumarize and comment on bellow. As in all complex solutions, there are no quick answers and no 100% correct solutions. There are trade-offs to be made among very different possiblities... Of course, the purpose of my original post was exactly get some feedback on what I initially designed and to widen my perspective on the particular subject by hearing different approaches to the problem. It's been great ! :-) For those interested, here is the summary: 1. from Mojo with Horan Company, LLC sheet-fed PDF scanners - desktop PDF - print to HylaFAX good: - nice idea, makes use of centralized HylaFAX server bad: - needs investment in replacing current equipment not sure if: - FAX users are PC savvy - there is a PC near every FAX 2. from Andreas van dem Helge suggests using a T.38 fax provider good: - would offload the gatewaying to a provider need to know: - whether T.38 is effectively solid under such scenario (see last comment, below) he also comments: - no success with callweaver T.38 gateway with some betas (answer to his question: the channel banks allow for the connection of analog FAX machines to the asterisk servers via PRI) - then says the topology I presented has too many PRIs: PSTN --PRI-- ast 1.2 --PRI-- AS5300 --SIP-- T.38 ATA he suggests something I don't quite understand (are these three parallel flows ? or does it represent one PRI going to a single AS5300 which would deliver the calls to T.38 ATAs or asterisk based on DDI ? what's the difference between the last two lines, can the AS5300 talk SIP/T.38 directly to an ATA without a SIP proxy ?): PSTN --PRI-- AS5300 --SIP-- ast 1.2 PSTN --PRI-- AS5300 --SIP-- ast 1.4 --SIP-- T.38 ATA PSTN --PRI-- AS5300 --SIP-- T.38 ATA 3. from Olivier shares information he got from Cantata where T.38 requires good levels of QoS my comment: I though T.38 was created to bypass those types of technical hurdles -- interesting ! (as I'll note below, Steve Underwood helps clarifying this notion) 4. from Phillip von Klitzing suggests that some bigger MFC printer/copy/fax combos can do FAX via SMTP good: - great, if it's over SMTP it'll work bad: - small offices won't justify such a big investment (I used to work for HP, I know how much those beasts can cost!) ;-) ...unless anyone's aware of a small FAX machine that can do SMTP ! (btw, there are some sheet-fed network scanners that can do SMTP -- see first comment) he also recalls an important issue: are you sure you want to rely 100% on IP only in your sattelite offices ? It might be wise to have 1 (analog?) line installed anway great point -- this has always been a possibility in the back of my mind... the only thing we'd loose in a setup where the remote office FAXes are directly attached to local analog lines is the ability to do integrated CDR processing for those FAX usages 5. from Benny Amorsen reminds that those big MFC boxes require the fax as email address for sending -- maybe too complex in day to day usage ? how tech savvy are the users ? another good point -- apart from their cost, in terms of usability, they might come short... or be too complex for someone with basic FAX machine abilities 6. from Steve Underwood reminds that T.37 (store and forward instead of realtime) is the answer to reliability... T.38 isn't all that robust, it just isn't as awful as FAX over VoIP he then concludes In a sane world all FAX would have been T.37 from a few months after the spec was released great info -- so, where is the T.37 compliant equipment ? (gateways, ATAs, FAX machines ?) Again, thanks a lot for the feedback (keep those posts coming!). Meanwhile I'll move on to further investigate some of the alternatives you proposed. Cheers, -- exvito ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Distributed FAX - How to best complement asterisk ?
PvK == Philipp von Klitzing [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: PvK Some of the bigger MFC printer/copy/fax combo devices by Brother PvK (and maybe also other vendors?) provide a fax-via-smtp feature PvK and can built fax networks that way. As far as I can tell, the Brother boxes require the user to enter fax-over-internet addresses as actual email addresses. There is no way to tell the machine to always use fax-over-internet, and there is also no way to configure a default domain. Asking fax users to select email and then type in [EMAIL PROTECTED] on a tiny little keyboard just won't fly. I don't understand why no fax vendors offer an easy fax-via-email user interface. /Benny ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Distributed FAX - How to best complement asterisk ?
John, For incoming fax numbers, did you port existing numbers or did you get new numbers from bandwidth.com ? If the later, what if you switch for another provider ? Would you then be able to port the given number to your new provider ? Regards ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Distributed FAX - How to best complement asterisk ?
On 10/10/07, Ex Vito [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi list, I'm evaluating a private telephony scenario of about 20 locations - 300 phones, 50 FAX machines. More than 1 PRI? All other locations, small by themselves, would get SIP phones managed by asterisk, since there is good IP connectivity between all sites. Private network? How good? How saturated? Could be possible to just run ulaw if the quality is as good as your LAN 1. On the locations where asterisk is installed, the solution is trivial; either by connecting FAXes to FXS ports on channelbanks or by managing faxes with iaxmodem + Hylafax. Probably a combination of both... Why channel banks? 2. On the remaining locations we have a problem b) T.38 is the answer to FoIP c) asterisk 1.2 does not support T.38 d) asterisk 1.4 only does T.38 passthrough, not good enough Use a VoIP provider with t.38 for your faxes... easy solution. e) CallWeaver seems to support T.38 gatewaying, although I'd rather move on with asterisk so as to leverage current experience and knowledge and to keep installed base with the same software. I've been waiting for callwaver 1.2 final for a while. Tried some betas and T38 gateway didnt work even when we put a Sangoma card in the machine. Problem was on the SIP side. [PSTN] ---PRI--- [asterisk] ---PRI--- [PRI-to-T38 GW] ... ... --SIP/T.38--- [T.38 ATA] ---FXS--- FAX machine Too many PRI... Try: PSTN ---PRI AS5300 --SIP- Asterisk 1.2 PSTN ---PRI AS5300 --SIP- Asterisk 1.4 -SIP T.38 ATA PSTN ---PRI AS5300 --SIP- T.38 ATA 4. Of course, I could use CallWeaver as a PRI-to-T.38 gateway... But then again, how solid would it be ? With which ATAs ? The CallWeaver website shows a very small amount of ATAs confirmed to be 100% working in T.38. There's a reason why CallWeaver is beta. As much as I'd love to support their stuff. It's still in beta. 5. Would I need to have a SIP proxy between the PRI-to-T.38 gw and the T.38 ATAs or would they be able to talk to each other directly ? (I'd say this would depend on the specific equipment, but...) If that would be a requirement, which way would you go, asterisk 1.4 ? Would SER forward T.38 traffic ? SER is a SIP proxy. T.38 is irrelevant to it. I'd use 1.4, your setup seems pretty straightforward. You don't have a diverse population of SIP phones and locations to manage. ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Distributed FAX - How to best complement asterisk ?
Olivier wrote: 2007/10/12, Jonn Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]: Would you then be able to port the given number to your new provider ? Yes, if you are in the US. Number port ability is one thing that ALL VIOP providers had to provide. Here too (France), number portability is mandatory but in facts, I couldn't find any pure fax service provider complying with this. I think they bet on the fact they are not telco so they don't have to comply with telco regulation. I could find fax services from telco but services are often poor or neglected. That's fine you could find something up to your expectations : it gives me hope I could find one in the future. Cheers ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users Olivier, Check this out, might help. http://www.voipproviderslist.com/country/voip-france/voip-providers-france/ Jonn ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Distributed FAX - How to best complement asterisk ?
I was told yesterday (by Cantata guy) that T.38 demands a good level of QoS. That surprised me a lot as I thought the whole purpose of T.38 was to avoid SIP and ToIP latency. Another editor (Interstar) told me T.38 passthrough doesn't work. As devil lies in details and I couldn't get any, I'm not sure these words would be of any use. Regards ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Distributed FAX - How to best complement asterisk ?
2007/10/12, Jonn Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Would you then be able to port the given number to your new provider ? Yes, if you are in the US. Number port ability is one thing that ALL VIOP providers had to provide. Here too (France), number portability is mandatory but in facts, I couldn't find any pure fax service provider complying with this. I think they bet on the fact they are not telco so they don't have to comply with telco regulation. I could find fax services from telco but services are often poor or neglected. That's fine you could find something up to your expectations : it gives me hope I could find one in the future. Cheers ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Distributed FAX - How to best complement asterisk ?
Olivier wrote: John, For incoming fax numbers, did you port existing numbers or did you get new numbers from bandwidth.com http://bandwidth.com ? Both, we ported numbers and got new one's. If the later, what if you switch for another provider ? I did alot of research before we went with bandwidth.com. They resell Level 3 service. If I would switch, I would verify that the provider that we switch to a) has very low latency b)has mutiple backup nodes. The other key is your internet provider, so long as they pass all TCP header info your good to go. We use Comcast Business service and get 99.999% uptime. Would you then be able to port the given number to your new provider ? Yes, if you are in the US. Number port ability is one thing that ALL VIOP providers had to provide. Regards ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users Jonn ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Distributed FAX - How to best complement asterisk ?
Hi! 2. On the remaining locations we have a problem which I have been studying and trying to address... Faxing over IP. There might be yet another option for you to consider: Some of the bigger MFC printer/copy/fax combo devices by Brother (and maybe also other vendors?) provide a fax-via-smtp feature and can built fax networks that way. I haven't tested that yet myself, but it might be worth a look given the fact that T.38 can't really be said to be a rock solid solution. But then: Are you sure you want to rely 100% on IP only in your satellite offices? It might be wise to have 1 (analog?) line installed anyway. Cheers, Philipp ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Distributed FAX - How to best complement asterisk ?
Ex Vito wrote: 2. On the remaining locations we have a problem which I have been studying and trying to address... Faxing over IP. Could the 'remote' locations make do without a fax machine proper? We have sheet-fed pdf scanners here, drop the document in and hit the button, and acrobat shows up; hit print, select the printer called Fax, hit OK, and type in a phone number. Done. The last bit (the fake printer) is installed by WinPrintHylaFax [1] which is a windows client that sends jobs over IP to a hylafax server.I'm not sure how attached to a manual fax machine your users are, but mine sure were, and this sheet-fed pdf scanner combined with winprinthylafax appeased them. Moj [1] http://winprinthylafax.sourceforge.net/ ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Distributed FAX - How to best complement asterisk ?
Mojo with Horan Company, LLC wrote: Ex Vito wrote: 2. On the remaining locations we have a problem which I have been studying and trying to address... Faxing over IP. Could the 'remote' locations make do without a fax machine proper? We have sheet-fed pdf scanners here, drop the document in and hit the button, and acrobat shows up; hit print, select the printer called Fax, hit OK, and type in a phone number. Done. The last bit (the fake printer) is installed by WinPrintHylaFax [1] which is a windows client that sends jobs over IP to a hylafax server.I'm not sure how attached to a manual fax machine your users are, but mine sure were, and this sheet-fed pdf scanner combined with winprinthylafax appeased them. Moj [1] http://winprinthylafax.sourceforge.net/ ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users We are faxing over SIP trunks from bandwidth.com and have 5 fax numbers all working without any problem. They are iaxmodem + hylafax. We can also send and receive faxes with tx_fax app. The big key is to have a bandwidth manager between your internet connection and your servers. Jonn ___ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
