Re: [asterisk-users] Verizon SIP "trunking" Field Trial

[Michael L. Young]

- Original Message - 

> From: "Logan Bibby" 

> Does anyone have a good contact for their sales? I've attempted
> calling their Enterprise sales a few times and was just spun around
> in circles. Having a sales rep I can just call would be awesome.

Logan,

We have an account manager that we deal with directly for changes or new 
orders.  Supposedly, every customer has their own account manager.

Michael

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Re: [asterisk-users] Verizon SIP "trunking" Field Trial

[Robert-GMAIL]

Good luck! Finding the right person at VZ has always been a beef of mine


Sent from my iPhone 5

On Jan 5, 2013, at 11:12 AM, Logan Bibby  wrote:

> Does anyone have a good contact for their sales? I've attempted calling their 
> Enterprise sales a few times and was just spun around in circles. Having a 
> sales rep I can just call would be awesome.
> 
> - Logan
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Michael L. Young  wrote:
>> - Original Message -
>> > From: "Matthew J. Roth" 
>> 
>> > At least Verizon maintains a consistent customer experience.  ; )
>> >
>> > Overall, we've found the service to be reliable and stable, but when
>> > there are problems or changes needed you're dealing with Verizon and
>> > the
>> > w...h...e...e...l...s..t...u...r...n..s...l...o...w...l...y.
>> 
>> Haha... that is funny... it is sooo true.
>> 
>> Well, you are right.  Once it is working, it is usually pretty stable.  Just 
>> a pain in the butt when things are not working.  Hopefully we can get 
>> through the Field Trial and that is all I have to worry about for a while.
>> 
>> Thanks Matthew for all the encouragement as I go down this temporary (I 
>> hope) unpleasant path.
>> 
>> Michael
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Logan
> 
> Logan Bibby, CEO
> Keobi Communications
> Tuscaloosa, Alabama
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Re: [asterisk-users] Verizon SIP "trunking" Field Trial

[Logan Bibby]

Does anyone have a good contact for their sales? I've attempted calling
their Enterprise sales a few times and was just spun around in circles.
Having a sales rep I can just call would be awesome.

- Logan


On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 1:36 PM, Michael L. Young  wrote:

> - Original Message -
> > From: "Matthew J. Roth" 
>
> > At least Verizon maintains a consistent customer experience.  ; )
> >
> > Overall, we've found the service to be reliable and stable, but when
> > there are problems or changes needed you're dealing with Verizon and
> > the
> > w...h...e...e...l...s..t...u...r...n..s...l...o...w...l...y.
>
> Haha... that is funny... it is sooo true.
>
> Well, you are right.  Once it is working, it is usually pretty stable.
>  Just a pain in the butt when things are not working.  Hopefully we can get
> through the Field Trial and that is all I have to worry about for a while.
>
> Thanks Matthew for all the encouragement as I go down this temporary (I
> hope) unpleasant path.
>
> Michael
>
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Best regards,
Logan

Logan Bibby, CEO
Ke*o*bi Communications
Tuscaloosa, Alabama
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Re: [asterisk-users] Verizon SIP "trunking" Field Trial

[Michael L. Young]

- Original Message -
> From: "Matthew J. Roth" 

> At least Verizon maintains a consistent customer experience.  ; )
> 
> Overall, we've found the service to be reliable and stable, but when
> there are problems or changes needed you're dealing with Verizon and
> the
> w...h...e...e...l...s..t...u...r...n..s...l...o...w...l...y.

Haha... that is funny... it is sooo true.

Well, you are right.  Once it is working, it is usually pretty stable.  Just a 
pain in the butt when things are not working.  Hopefully we can get through the 
Field Trial and that is all I have to worry about for a while.

Thanks Matthew for all the encouragement as I go down this temporary (I hope) 
unpleasant path.

Michael

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Re: [asterisk-users] Verizon SIP "trunking" Field Trial

[Michael L. Young]

- Original Message - 
> From: "Carlos Alvarez" 

> Sounds like the same huge effort it takes to work with
> Qwest/Centurylink, and in the long run we found it simply isn't
> worth it. The few benefits of working with an RBOC are countered by
> the many drawbacks of working with an RBOC.

> Also we recently acquired a half million minutes/mo from a company
> who was tired of dealing with Qwest SIP. They said the same thing I
> said above.

> I suppose the point of what I'm saying is you should really think
> about what you think you will gain from a relationship with them,
> and whether all this is worth it ("all this" means now and how their
> attitude will affect you forever).

Trust me, this was not my choice... They are not fun to deal with when it came 
to our PRI lines.  After dealing with dropped calls and errors on the T1s, they 
wouldn't admit that they had a problem until finally they looked at the 
hardware at the CO while we were down hard (which cost us about 4 - 6 hours 
downtime) and said, "Oh, we do have a problem".  To make a long story short, it 
was fixed and has been good since but I was really trying to move us away from 
Verizon.  Unfortanately, it boils down to cost and Verizon being as big as they 
are were able to make a deal (getting us out of contracts that had been signed, 
credits, etc.) that the ultimate decision maker here at the company went for.  
That decision maker also has the mindset that we have to stick with the phone 
company for some reason.  I was strongly against it and wanted to go with a 
different company.  So, I have to deal with it now.

Thanks for your input.  It pretty much echoes my sentiments.

Michael

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Re: [asterisk-users] Verizon SIP "trunking" Field Trial

[Matthew J. Roth]

> Carlos Alvarez wrote:
>
> Sounds like the same huge effort it takes to work with Qwest/
> Centurylink, and in the long run we found it simply isn't worth it.
> The few benefits of working with an RBOC are countered by the many
> drawbacks of working with an RBOC.
> 
> Also we recently acquired a half million minutes/mo from a company who
> was tired of dealing with Qwest SIP.  They said the same thing I said
> above.
> 
> I suppose the point of what I'm saying is you should really think
> about what you think you will gain from a relationship with them, and
> whether all this is worth it ("all this" means now and how their
> attitude will affect you forever).
> 
> 
>> Eric Wieling wrote:
>> 
>> Trust me, Verizon doesn't really provide support.What they will
>> do is tell you something different (often conflicting stuff) when you
>> send in a ticket.One time they tell us the From must be in e.164
>> format, other times they say it does not.We asked for an updated
>> Interop guide weeks ago and they have not provided us anything.  We
>> have been with VZ SIP for years so I wanted an updated interop guide
>> so we can point them to it when they tell us something which
>> conflicts with their docs.  Don't get me started on trying to upgrade
>> our service with them..


Michael,

At least Verizon maintains a consistent customer experience.  ; )

Overall, we've found the service to be reliable and stable, but when
there are problems or changes needed you're dealing with Verizon and the
w...h...e...e...l...s..t...u...r...n..s...l...o...w...l...y.

It's a trade-off of dealing with such a huge company and I don't have
experience with any other SIP trunk providers to compare it to, so give
proper consideration to the opinions of the other members of this list.

Just know that as you weigh your options, Verizon will work in the end
but this whole field trial process is your preview of all future
dealings with them.  It can make you question your sanity but so far
everything you've said has been spot-on.

Regards,

Matthew Roth
InterMedia Marketing Solutions
Software Engineer and Systems Developer

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Re: [asterisk-users] Verizon SIP "trunking" Field Trial

[Carlos Alvarez]

On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 11:18 AM, Eric Wieling  wrote:

> Trust me, Verizon doesn't really provide support.What they will do is
> tell you something different (often conflicting stuff) when you send in a
> ticket.One time they tell us the From must be in e.164 format, other
> times they say it does not.We asked for an updated Interop guide weeks
> ago and they have not provided us anything.  We have been with VZ SIP for
> years so I wanted an updated interop guide so we can point them to it when
> they tell us something which conflicts with their docs.  Don't get me
> started on trying to upgrade our service with them..
>

Sounds like the same huge effort it takes to work with Qwest/Centurylink,
and in the long run we found it simply isn't worth it.  The few benefits of
working with an RBOC are countered by the many drawbacks of working with an
RBOC.

Also we recently acquired a half million minutes/mo from a company who was
tired of dealing with Qwest SIP.  They said the same thing I said above.

I suppose the point of what I'm saying is you should really think about
what you think you will gain from a relationship with them, and whether all
this is worth it ("all this" means now and how their attitude will affect
you forever).


-- 
Carlos Alvarez
TelEvolve
602-889-3003
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Re: [asterisk-users] Verizon SIP "trunking" Field Trial

[Eric Wieling]

Trust me, Verizon doesn't really provide support.What they will do is tell 
you something different (often conflicting stuff) when you send in a ticket.
One time they tell us the From must be in e.164 format, other times they say it 
does not.We asked for an updated Interop guide weeks ago and they have not 
provided us anything.  We have been with VZ SIP for years so I wanted an 
updated interop guide so we can point them to it when they tell us something 
which conflicts with their docs.  Don't get me started on trying to upgrade our 
service with them..

-Original Message-
From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com 
[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Michael L. Young
Sent: Friday, January 04, 2013 1:07 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Verizon SIP "trunking" Field Trial

- Original Message -
> From: "Matthew J. Roth" 

> Your email documents the same experience we had years ago.  It was 
> strange reading it and I was shocked that nothing has changed in that 
> much time.  Asterisk will work with Verizon's IP trunking product, but 
> they're trying to make you jump through some old hoops first.

Those were my thoughts.  They are making this a lot more complicated than it 
really needs to be.  I think the main thing they are worried about is having to 
support something they don't know anything about.  Well, they won't have to 
support it; we will.  Just as long as they are SIP compliant, there should be 
no issues.

> We were using Verizon IP trunks over an MPLS network in 2008.  At the 
> time, they did not require IPSEC for signaling.  However, they did 
> want us to install an SBC and actually provided us with an AudioCodes 
> nCite 1000 at their cost.  It just acted as a proxy, so it didn't 
> affect interoperability with Verizon's IP trunks and I wouldn't buy 
> one only to satisfy them.

One of the engineers stated that they have received the direction to only use 
"standard" equipment.  So, they are afraid that our setup will not pass ICB 
since it doesn't fit into their "standard" way of doing things.

> We were quite happy with the service, so I'd encourage you to go ahead 
> with the field trial without putting an SBC in place.  Remember that 
> you will be paying them, so they should be working to fit your design 
> and if they reject you for some arcane reason then you are better off 
> with another provider anyway.
> 
> Don't hesitate to let them know that you know you're jumping through 
> the same hoops that have been in place since 2008 and you'd appreciate 
> it if they would streamline the process to save time and money.  Tell 
> them that Asterisk should already be on their certified list of 
> approved devices because they've been running field trials and 
> production setups on it for years.

It is good to hear that you were happy with the service.  I have my 
reservations with all the hoops they are making us jump through and that gives 
me a bit of confidence that it will be worth it.

I did tell them that Asterisk is being used all over the place as well as in 
big call centers.  I know that I have seen others in the Asterisk community on 
Verizon.  Verizon seems to be hung up on this certification stuff and it is 
hard to explain to them that this is not a piece of hardware you buy and 
plugin.  We can build our own servers and put Asterisk on it, and they seem to 
cringe when they hear that.

Thanks for your input Matthew.  It is appreciated.

Michael

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Re: [asterisk-users] Verizon SIP "trunking" Field Trial

[Michael L. Young]

- Original Message -
> From: "Matthew J. Roth" 

> Your email documents the same experience we had years ago.  It was
> strange reading it and I was shocked that nothing has changed in that
> much time.  Asterisk will work with Verizon's IP trunking product,
> but
> they're trying to make you jump through some old hoops first.

Those were my thoughts.  They are making this a lot more complicated than it 
really needs to be.  I think the main thing they are worried about is having to 
support something they don't know anything about.  Well, they won't have to 
support it; we will.  Just as long as they are SIP compliant, there should be 
no issues.

> We were using Verizon IP trunks over an MPLS network in 2008.  At the
> time, they did not require IPSEC for signaling.  However, they did
> want us to install an SBC and actually provided us with an AudioCodes
> nCite 1000 at their cost.  It just acted as a proxy, so it didn't
> affect interoperability with Verizon's IP trunks and I wouldn't
> buy one only to satisfy them.

One of the engineers stated that they have received the direction to only use 
"standard" equipment.  So, they are afraid that our setup will not pass ICB 
since it doesn't fit into their "standard" way of doing things.

> We were quite happy with the service, so I'd encourage you to go
> ahead
> with the field trial without putting an SBC in place.  Remember that
> you will be paying them, so they should be working to fit your design
> and if they reject you for some arcane reason then you are better off
> with another provider anyway.
> 
> Don't hesitate to let them know that you know you're jumping through
> the same hoops that have been in place since 2008 and you'd
> appreciate
> it if they would streamline the process to save time and money.  Tell
> them that Asterisk should already be on their certified list of
> approved devices because they've been running field trials and
> production setups on it for years.

It is good to hear that you were happy with the service.  I have my 
reservations with all the hoops they are making us jump through and that gives 
me a bit of confidence that it will be worth it.

I did tell them that Asterisk is being used all over the place as well as in 
big call centers.  I know that I have seen others in the Asterisk community on 
Verizon.  Verizon seems to be hung up on this certification stuff and it is 
hard to explain to them that this is not a piece of hardware you buy and 
plugin.  We can build our own servers and put Asterisk on it, and they seem to 
cringe when they hear that.

Thanks for your input Matthew.  It is appreciated.

Michael

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Re: [asterisk-users] Verizon SIP "trunking" Field Trial

[Michael L. Young]

> From: "Carlos Alvarez" 

> It may be too late for this, but in working with another RBOC who
> didn't want to deal with Asterisk, I just asked what they do
> support, and modified the headers sent by Asterisk to claim that it
> was one of the devices on that list. Done.

Like everyone else, I was laughing as well when I read this.

One engineer stated that they like to have an SBC to manipulate the headers to 
normalize things.  I stated that Asterisk was capable of manipulating headers 
if need be.  You just proved that it works :)

Michael

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Re: [asterisk-users] Verizon SIP "trunking" Field Trial

[Matthew J. Roth]

Michael L. Young wrote:

> I should have probably stated that this is going to be going through
> an MPLS network being setup with Verizon.  They may not be requiring
> that since it is within their network, not going over the internet.
> They have not said anything about the the need to secure the traffic
> coming from them or to them since the VoIP traffic will be on
> Verizon's network.


Michael,

Your email documents the same experience we had years ago.  It was
strange reading it and I was shocked that nothing has changed in that
much time.  Asterisk will work with Verizon's IP trunking product, but
they're trying to make you jump through some old hoops first.

We were using Verizon IP trunks over an MPLS network in 2008.  At the
time, they did not require IPSEC for signaling.  However, they did
want us to install an SBC and actually provided us with an AudioCodes
nCite 1000 at their cost.  It just acted as a proxy, so it didn't
affect interoperability with Verizon's IP trunks and I wouldn't
buy one only to satisfy them.

We were quite happy with the service, so I'd encourage you to go ahead
with the field trial without putting an SBC in place.  Remember that
you will be paying them, so they should be working to fit your design
and if they reject you for some arcane reason then you are better off
with another provider anyway.

Don't hesitate to let them know that you know you're jumping through
the same hoops that have been in place since 2008 and you'd appreciate
it if they would streamline the process to save time and money.  Tell
them that Asterisk should already be on their certified list of
approved devices because they've been running field trials and
production setups on it for years.

Regards,

Matthew Roth
InterMedia Marketing Solutions
Software Engineer and Systems Developer

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Re: [asterisk-users] Verizon SIP "trunking" Field Trial

[Ron Wheeler]

On 03/01/2013 11:04 AM, Jeff LaCoursiere wrote:

On 01/03/2013 09:56 AM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 8:13 AM, Michael L. Young > wrote:



Where I am at is that they want us to use an SBC.  One engineer
asked about Cisco Call Manager.  I told them that basically if I
can accomplish the same thing with a Linux box (routing box and
sip proxy box) without having to spend money on SBCs or expensive
Cisco gear, that is the route we would like to go.  We are
looking at the possibility of handling 140 concurrent calls...
that is what they are designing on their end as well.

So, I am asking the community for any input.  I have read on here
and seen on IRC that some in the community are successfully using
Asterisk with Verizon SIP.  Verizon was going to check and see if
they have any notes about that and those particular setups.  Can
anyone help share any information or tidbits on how they were
able to sucessfully work with Verizon?


It may be too late for this, but in working with another RBOC who 
didn't want to deal with Asterisk, I just asked what they do support, 
and modified the headers sent by Asterisk to claim that it was one of 
the devices on that list.  Done.





ROFL!!  Well done.

j


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+1


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skype: ronaldmwheeler
phone: 866-970-2435, ext 102

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Re: [asterisk-users] Verizon SIP "trunking" Field Trial

[Jeff LaCoursiere]

On 01/03/2013 09:56 AM, Carlos Alvarez wrote:
On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 8:13 AM, Michael L. Young > wrote:



Where I am at is that they want us to use an SBC.  One engineer
asked about Cisco Call Manager.  I told them that basically if I
can accomplish the same thing with a Linux box (routing box and
sip proxy box) without having to spend money on SBCs or expensive
Cisco gear, that is the route we would like to go.  We are looking
at the possibility of handling 140 concurrent calls... that is
what they are designing on their end as well.

So, I am asking the community for any input.  I have read on here
and seen on IRC that some in the community are successfully using
Asterisk with Verizon SIP.  Verizon was going to check and see if
they have any notes about that and those particular setups.  Can
anyone help share any information or tidbits on how they were able
to sucessfully work with Verizon?


It may be too late for this, but in working with another RBOC who 
didn't want to deal with Asterisk, I just asked what they do support, 
and modified the headers sent by Asterisk to claim that it was one of 
the devices on that list.  Done.





ROFL!!  Well done.

j
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Re: [asterisk-users] Verizon SIP "trunking" Field Trial

[Carlos Alvarez]

On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 8:13 AM, Michael L. Young  wrote:

>
> Where I am at is that they want us to use an SBC.  One engineer asked
> about Cisco Call Manager.  I told them that basically if I can accomplish
> the same thing with a Linux box (routing box and sip proxy box) without
> having to spend money on SBCs or expensive Cisco gear, that is the route we
> would like to go.  We are looking at the possibility of handling 140
> concurrent calls... that is what they are designing on their end as well.
>
> So, I am asking the community for any input.  I have read on here and seen
> on IRC that some in the community are successfully using Asterisk with
> Verizon SIP.  Verizon was going to check and see if they have any notes
> about that and those particular setups.  Can anyone help share any
> information or tidbits on how they were able to sucessfully work with
> Verizon?
>

It may be too late for this, but in working with another RBOC who didn't
want to deal with Asterisk, I just asked what they do support, and modified
the headers sent by Asterisk to claim that it was one of the devices on
that list.  Done.

-- 
Carlos Alvarez
TelEvolve
602-889-3003
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Re: [asterisk-users] Verizon SIP "trunking" Field Trial

[Eric Wieling]

It doesn't matter.  They still require IPSEC VPN.

-Original Message-
From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com 
[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Michael L. Young
Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2013 10:32 AM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Verizon SIP "trunking" Field Trial

- Original Message -
> From: "Steven Howes" 
>
> I *think* Verizon require IPSEC for the signalling, so it may be worth 
> reading up on configuring IPSEC in Linux (or acquiring additional 
> hardware) whilst you're looking at the Asterisk part.
> This could have just been for a specific product / contract or 
> something, I don't recall the details exactly.

I should have probably stated that this is going to be going through an MPLS 
network being setup with Verizon.  They may not be requiring that since it is 
within their network, not going over the internet.  They have not said anything 
about the the need to secure the traffic coming from them or to them since the 
VoIP traffic will be on Verizon's network.

Thanks for the heads up, though.  I will keep that in mind.

Michael

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Re: [asterisk-users] Verizon SIP "trunking" Field Trial

[Leandro Dardini]

2013/1/3 Steven Howes 

> On 3 Jan 2013, at 15:13, Michael L. Young wrote:
> > So, I am asking the community for any input.  I have read on here and
> seen on IRC that some in the community are successfully using Asterisk with
> Verizon SIP.  Verizon was going to check and see if they have any notes
> about that and those particular setups.  Can anyone help share any
> information or tidbits on how they were able to sucessfully work with
> Verizon?
>
> I *think* Verizon require IPSEC for the signalling, so it may be worth
> reading up on configuring IPSEC in Linux (or acquiring additional hardware)
> whilst you're looking at the Asterisk part. This could have just been for a
> specific product / contract or something, I don't recall the details
> exactly.
>
> S
> --
>

I have no direct experience with Verizon, but another big player asks for a
long series of tests, like "call and answer",  "call and don't answer",
"call and cancel". It took me two full days of work to accomplish all the
tasks. For every call I have to dump the Call-ID, the date and the hours...
So, don't be scared by the "field test", it will be probably long and
tedious, but doable.

Leandro
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Re: [asterisk-users] Verizon SIP "trunking" Field Trial

[Michael L. Young]

- Original Message -
> From: "Steven Howes" 
>
> I *think* Verizon require IPSEC for the signalling, so it may be
> worth reading up on configuring IPSEC in Linux (or acquiring
> additional hardware) whilst you're looking at the Asterisk part.
> This could have just been for a specific product / contract or
> something, I don't recall the details exactly.

I should have probably stated that this is going to be going through an MPLS 
network being setup with Verizon.  They may not be requiring that since it is 
within their network, not going over the internet.  They have not said anything 
about the the need to secure the traffic coming from them or to them since the 
VoIP traffic will be on Verizon's network.

Thanks for the heads up, though.  I will keep that in mind.

Michael

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Re: [asterisk-users] Verizon SIP "trunking" Field Trial

[Steven Howes]

On 3 Jan 2013, at 15:13, Michael L. Young wrote:
> So, I am asking the community for any input.  I have read on here and seen on 
> IRC that some in the community are successfully using Asterisk with Verizon 
> SIP.  Verizon was going to check and see if they have any notes about that 
> and those particular setups.  Can anyone help share any information or 
> tidbits on how they were able to sucessfully work with Verizon?

I *think* Verizon require IPSEC for the signalling, so it may be worth reading 
up on configuring IPSEC in Linux (or acquiring additional hardware) whilst 
you're looking at the Asterisk part. This could have just been for a specific 
product / contract or something, I don't recall the details exactly.

S
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