Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? Hey, Jayde, totally understand you.! My knowledge of programing is really limited and basic but I know about games itself, I played a lot and saw a lot in my life.In my opinion this community is closing many times on cooperation and doing things together building a team with a people who know how to do programming, knows a lot about games and the mechanics rather than doing everything on their own.I know everyone especially who is trying to get cash from the product wants to be alone just to get as much as possible (atleast it looks like that) but it will not work in many situations. I know few good coders who can do amazing stuff but their gaming knowledge is really, really bad. What I am trying to say is: You can't make good and tasty soup if you never tried it even if you skills are amazing. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=349075#p349075 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? Hey, there's nothing wrong with stating your opinion. That's what the forum is here for, by and large.I agree with you for the most part. Some people are great coders and poor balancers/actual world developers. Then you get folks like me, who can't code worth a damn but who understand the basic concepts, and who would rather plunge into a world numerically and story-wise to hand off to a programmer to get stuff rolling. The community needs both.Honestly though, regarding BK3, I feel like that game was about twice as long as it needed to be. A lot of repetition, and past a certain point, it felt, to me at least, as if you were just doing the same thing with bigger numbers. Faster rate of fire, higher damage, better ammo, etc. That doesn't make it a bad game. it did a lot of things right. it just makes it...well, repetitive, I guess. But again, that's just me. Not knocking the dev here. For those who like it, have on. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=349072#p349072 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? Well...Audio games are still really limited, easy to play (mostly) short, boring in terms of story lines (if there's any), not addicting enough (with few exceptions) and overpriced (usually)One thing I learned in my life is you don't need lots of cash, huge team behind a project to do something good, ambitious and creative. Of course it depends on the project: You can't create something massive like AHC without voice actors but I saw lots of video games made by one / two people and even if 8-bit, games were played by many gamers for many many hours.Greatest example is BK3, easy to pickup but hard to master. Tons of secrets, unlockables and stuff. Is this one sounds really like a pro video game? of course not but it's really additing, original and groundbreaking.I played most (if not every) audio game out there and sadly most of the audio games are just clones of each other. Someone mentioned games from SEGA systems, yes, but games from 90s were more original and complex compared to our audio games we have for now.Many times I feel like a blind developer is:1. Hungry for money and this is why development takes really short amount of time.2. Blind developers don't have any kind of experiences regarding video games (Of course it could be understandable, not every blind should play video games)When I was testing and every time I am playing AHC I feels like developers are gamers, true gamers as they knew what to do and how to do things to make AHC a game like it is now: Balanced, with great living world, with fantastic atmosphere.No offence of course, just say what I am thinking. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=349060#p349060 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? Amen to that, having to understand the crystals in order to destroy them in the correct order lest you breathe a sigh of distress because you got the blue one last and it decided to restore one of the others just when you were getting ready to finish it off is seriously annoying, but cool. Then there's that whole transformation bit with Allysa, at which point you'd better hope you have either summoned snakes and spiders that can poison her before she starts causing you serious damage, a ton of silence scrolls, or a fighter assassin that can sneak attack her for extreme damage and exceptional accuracy to go for the head. I'm sure there are other strategies as well that are just as inventive if not more so, but those are the three that worked for me, apart from summoning that angry troll on floor 20 and using his axe along with another legendary one I managed to acquire through the bazarre, and a giant with a bunch of nice armor and weaponry along with him to make for a nice, undead duet. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=349021#p349021 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? I would have to do a playthrough on hard starting at level 1, which I'll do when I have time...but even on normal I didn't notice specific strategy. i.e., turn 1 the boss does this thing, then turn 2 one of his lackeys does this other thing to help him and turn 4 the boss, protected by that lackey, does something epic. Stuff like that. I have never seen cooperative groups, not even in boss fights. The closest is the final battle, but all you need to do there is AoE the hell out of them, and all strategy goes out the window (this is true on both easy and normal, and I wrecked the final boss on normal even easier than on easy, funnily enough). I really hope Blessed Peace got a hard nerf, not a soft one. lolAnyway, yeah. I'll have more specific data about hard mode at some point, but so far I noticed little enough difference between easy and normal that I'm...not really expecting much. And like I say, this is where an RPG falls down for me. It's why I liked Entombed...at least in general, its boss fights were kind of interesting. I'm thinking of the final battle, and the way the Alyssa and the crystals worked. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=348949#p348949 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? @Jayd, have you tried it on all the difficulties? I assume you have given that you're making such a statement. I figure that kind of thing might happen on easy, which was my first go with the game; I still haven't finished by first go around yet because children and housework and bla bla bla, but if you can still say that after trying it on the most difficult setting then I'm entirely with ya and there should be some tinkering done with the AI aspect of things. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=348880#p348880 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? lol Noted and well spotted. Actually, I have a habit of copying and pasting people's names in which escaped me this time around, probably because I was too busy thinking about goodness only knows what else. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=348886#p348886 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : SplendidFault via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? Her or his user name is spelled Jayde,. I thought you would want to know. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=348882#p348882 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-22
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? @Jade, have you tried it on all the difficulties? I assume you have given that you're making such a statement. I figure that kind of thing might happen on easy, which was my first go with the game; I still haven't finished by first go around yet because children and housework and bla bla bla, but if you can still say that after trying it on the most difficult setting then I'm entirely with ya and there should be some tinkering done with the AI aspect of things. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=348880#p348880 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? Actually Love quest...on that score, the idea of "talk to everyone" pays dividends.slightspoilersBeatrice will help you. And she's close by the armourer, so while it's a little bit of an odd one, it's not utterly impenetrable.I'm assuming I've done all the quests the game has to offer - thirty-five of them, at last count - and none of them really and truly gave me fits except Laying Down the Law, for reasons I've explained elsewhere.Crystal, I understand what you're saying about wanting to enjoy vs. wanting to struggle. I feel like this is nothing more or less than a personal preference thing. I love to explore, personally, and as long as I'm not dying right and left, I don't really care. Being able to save anywhere, at no cost, really helps in this regard. I save religiously. This does not mean your perspective is wrong, it simply differs from mine, and I'm okay with that.I agree, Nocturnis, that we don't have to give a game a complete pass just because it's good at what it does. I've never, ever thought that. And on the one hand, I'll admit that it was annoying to have so many little bugs in AHC when it launched, but on the other, it was very nice to see just how fast those bugs got patched.I confess that the stuff using the mouse to sword-swing or gestures to cast spells just seems gimicky. This is a turn-based RPG, there's nothing wrong with selecting things. Where I personally feel AHC falls down a bit is that there's no real AI that I can see. I don't see complex strategy. If you bash stuff hard enough, it dies, and sometimes monsters will waste turns not doing the optimal thing. One thing I've always liked about Final Fantasy and Crono Trigger and games like that is that bosses, while sometimes laden with gimicks, are also smart, sort of. If you cast a magic spell, the boss counters with Silence. Or, a particularly lovely example, the Magus sisters from FFIV. One of them casts protection spells on the trio. One of them is a huge damage dealer. The third will heal the hell out of all three. So you have to figure out how to deal with that. This is the sort of strategy I like, and where I found AHC lacked a little. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=348838#p348838 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CrystalD via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? @Nocturnus Imitation I think is a far better word than clone lol. AHC definitely imitates a lot of fantasy RPGs - whenever I describe it to my brother I'm like "It's like Skyrim" so I totally think of that more than a clone of something. Also - all of your points are points I've brought up to people when talking about the game, and I don't think it's much to ask for to want that sort of added detail to a game with as much hype as AHC got. In particular, when I first saw the magic tutorial, I thought the buying spell books to get more skills was going to be the mechanic used. It took me dying to the Hydra too many times to keep count of and trying to figure out a good strategy to realize oh, expertise points raise the level of spells/teach them to you! And that was baffling to me because the tutorial made it like you used those points to go buy spellbooks to get spells. I think that would have been a great mechanic to add to the game. I'm not going to touch upon anything else you said because like legit everything you said is what I've been thinking about as far as making the game better goes, especially having it not have been released for at least a few more months until the bugs were ironed out of it. Also really wish that some tutorials were a bit more specific, along with some quest lines but that may be a matter of my playstyle. I'd much rather enjoy playing a game and experiencing the story rather than figuring out where to go to the extent that AHC wants you to figure out where to go at times (I figured it out, but the Actually Love quest comes to mind with just having to figure out where to go out of the blue with no direction at all). But like I said, may just be how I like to play games lol. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=348803#p348803 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? @CrystalD,Awesome stuff and well phrased post; thumbs up on 63. I'm not trying to discount any of what AHC has done. My concern actually lies in the fact that a game of this caliber comes out and then we settle for saying that this is the best we can do or the best that we've done up until now. You're absolutely right, however; every title is going to serve as a drop of history by which we can establish something else, a point of reference we can work around when the next title comes along. either way, it is what it is to every single one of us differently. Because this is the case, I'm going to address all of the points in post 1 and hope that will actually get the ball rolling in the right direction. this is gonna be rather long, so if you read it in its entirety, I sincerely appreciate your attention in advance.1. What makes this game any different to the 5000 clones out there? I think we've hashed and rehashed this aspect of gaming quite enough where AHC is concerned; some people believe it to be a clone by virtue of the fact that the concepts are not unique; others are not entirely convinced and prefer to call something a clone only if it deliberately goes out of its way to look exactly like something else, which is a fair assessment of the word clone, I suppose. Perhaps we should use the word immitation instead?2. What will make people want to come back and keep playing for longer than 5 minutes? In the case of AHC there are a few things. First, the game is not all fighting and not all story line. the quests are somewhat difficult and there isn't always obvious answers. The various paths one can take are also worth mentioning, even just within dialogues... see the easter eggs topic if you want further examples. Given I've only begun to scratch the surface on this one, I'm sure there's much I'm missing, so I'm willing to admit that there may be much, much more to it than all of the above, but as it stands right now, the kind of expansion i'd' like to see concerns itself more with what and how we do things. Aside from the obvious ones that might make a game like this more enjoyable to some, myself included, such as multi-player support, the ability to buy and sell from other players in a centralized location or the ability to craft your own weapons or enhance those that already exist by some means, more simplistic goals might be things like actually having to learn the spells and or skills you're dealing with, either through tomes or training, having to use a wand/staff/rod and strange mechanics/gestures to cast some spells more reliably than others perhaps simulated through the use of the mouse, possibly even doing the same with melee weapons and the like so that you have to hold down left or right mouse button and slide the thing to swing a sword or what have you, instructing a character to act as a hitter, blaster or a tank entirely through his or her lifespan/the time they're with you/any extended amount of time of your choosing. sound complicated? Fine! but I'm tired of simplistic number crunching and keypad mashing where the result is determined by setting a stat to this and putting experience into that.3. When I sit down tomorrow and hammer out another game, will I think about the game I just made yesterday? this one is not one I can answer because I'm not a dev, but I hope other devs are going to take it seriously because it holds a ton of implications. Recycling code and even certain aspects of your games is perfectly fine; n64's Golden Eye and Perfect Dark, made by the same company are, I feel, perfect examples. The controls feel almost the same, but you can tell that PD was slightly more than GE given there are more achievements to collect, more dialogue, acted scenes, new sounds, even new mechanics! IN GE you constantly threw grenades by holding down the z button. In PD, a grenade could actually detonate in your hand if you did the same exact thing. In GE your guns only did one thing. Because PD was more sci-fi, you were given a secondary mode for practically every weapon, even those that were simplly average every day handguns. In GE every door had to be manually opened. In PD some doors opened of their own accord to showcase the futuristic aspect. In GE you could enter cheats even if you hadn't completed the game by entering codes right in your playscreen through the use of your remote. In PD you seriously needed a gameshark because screw you! I'm not letting you cheat unless you beat me first!4. How can I get the best with my sound design with whatever limited resources I may or may not possess? (I know that last one is a very grey area). Seriously, I actually think this is an area where AHC did immensely well; I was pleased to see we weren't sticking to old 90's stock sounds all the way throug
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? That's about where I am as well. It deserves a lot of praise for what it does right, but it has a few notable things that might do well to be addressed as well. This is a very solid game that has a few areas where it might improve, but that isn't a bad thing. That's true of most mainstream games, actually, so I'm in agreement. The main thrust should be not in which game is a clone (unless the status as a clone is to its detriment somehow), but rather in the merits and flaws of games in general. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=348618#p348618 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CrystalD via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? @Jayde I couldn't have said it better myself! I consider a clone to be a 1 for 1 rip off of something. Like you could say Final Fantasy 3 is a clone of Final Fantasy IV if you're going off of mechanics, but they both have differing stories and characters and all that jazz. I'd just rather see actual conversation about how to better AHC as a whole (because I do have issues with it's execution, no matter how much I'm enjoying the game) rather than seeing everyone say that it's a clone because...it's a fantasy RPG. Going that route every piece of fantasy fiction is just a clone of Lord of the Rings~@Nocturnus I'm the same way, I see the flaws in AHC, I'm not here to sing it's praises. But to completely discount what it's done in the audio gaming space by saying it's a clone when it's just inspired by the fantasy genre I feel just shuts down the conversation, gets people on the defensive, and makes any actual conversation about making games like it better in the future become rather pointless because then the whole subject of "Is it a clone? Is it not" pops up. But I do think from a story line stand point, it could be better. I think from a balance standpoint, it could be better, but it's still something we can play and enjoy, and learn from to take into developing audio games, and accessible games in general in the future URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=348580#p348580 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? I like it! Seriously! I do!so much so, that I'm willing to give it away! I'm not here to bash on it, not here to rip it apart, but honestly, I just wish we had a bit more, uniqueness in our games overall. I love it! From the amusing and quirky dialogues, to the fact that thought went in to the various skills and spells and they weren't just named all over because of things you've seen named in the past, whatever, to the various effects they can actually bring about, the quests, all of it! It's good! But it feels the same! it's not revolutionary! I'm not saying it has to be, but I wish it was, given the hype that went into it and the way people seem to have this, knee jerk reaction when you say something even slightly negative concerning it. All that sound design gimics will never put to rest that one could honestly make a great game without the entirety of it sounding like the greatest cinematic story you've ever heard, unfolding before you over a span of time. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=348527#p348527 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? As someone who's actually done my fair share of design from the dev side (online and otherwise), I can tell you largely why magic hits more often than melee. It's because magic actually has a cost. You can plug away with a mace and sometimes you'll miss, but magic, by virtue of the fact that it has an associated cost, generally has to either hit harder, or hit more often. This is, in fact, an area where I think AHC has missed just a wee bit, but not by much. I'm not saying magic should never, ever, ever miss, ever. I'm saying that it should be harder to miss with magic because it has a cost.No, AHC is not 100% totally original. But is any RPG 100% original? Is this to be a point of contention? Because that's what I feel like at the moment. We can agree that the idea of levelling up, learning skills, using stats to improve combat performance and killing the big bad guy, in and of itself, has been done a lot. A whole lot. It's all in how you get there. Are the maps interesting? I'd say they are. Is the combat interesting? Again, I'd say so, though I'd make buff-stacking outside of battle stop being possible because it wrecks balance. Is levelling up and learning skills good? Well, it's decent, anyway; you never feel like you have to grind for five hours just to be competent, the way you might have in, say, FFVI or Dragon Warrior or Crono Trigger, two of which are rather iconic in the RPG genre. And is the story good? Again, I'd say it's pretty good. I've seen better, I'veseen far worse (Paladin, I'm looking at you). Rather than focus on the fact that a game is an RPG, and shares traits with a lot of RPGs, ask yourself how well it does those things.The reason Manamon has gotten slammed so hard is because it's unapologetically a rip-off. And it doesn't even have superiority to its source to argue for it. A lot of moves/creatures/mechanics are iffy, the story is interesting but rather shaky, its maps are decent, and its level-up system is bog standard (not bad, not good, just standard). Manamon gets slammed because it goes into a genre, borrows very heavily from a source, then fails to execute properly. AHC, on the other hand, succeeds because it goes into a genre, borrows not quite so heavily from its source material and, for the most part, does a good job with it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=348511#p348511 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? Crystal, thanks for this. Clearly you get it.Manamon is not a terrible game, btw, even if it's a shameless clone. Its status as a shameless clone should absolutely be held as a point against it, however, because even if it's virtually bug-free and has decent sound design, it is asking us to pay forty dollars and more for something which is heavily, heavily plagiarized. I'm not in favour of causing any legal trouble for VG Storm, by any means, but I'm also not in favour of letting things just slide by either. I refer to it as calling a spade a spade.AHC is not a clone, not in the pure sense. If it's supposed to be a DND clone, where's charisma? Where are feats and saving throws? Where is Magic Missile? No, it's a high-fantasy-inspired RPG, as are about half a thousand others in the mainstream market. This should not and must not be held against it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=348496#p348496 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CrystalD via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? Manamon is 100 percent a clone of Pokemon and when I ran across it I was shocked that they could even get away with it. I find it ridiculous that anyone would defend it because "It's name is different so it isn't a clone" because as Jayde so eloquently pointed out in a previous post it is 100 percent played as a Pokemon game, and I would have prefered it just be a Pokemon port for the blind in the same vain as Braillemon instead of pretending to be something "new"That being said, AHC is a clone? Seriously? It's an RPG with it's own plot, own original characters, own original music. A clone would be taking music from Final Fantasy or something and changing character names and giving us the exact same plot from say, FFVI and saying they made it themselves. They built a story, a game engine, and just because it lends itself to be a high fantasy story doesn't make it any less original because you can look at seasonal anime, or visual novels, or any JRPG and say they are all clones of each other. Every dark magical girl anime is "A Madoka Magica clone" with that logic.As far as the game development side goes, I'm not a game dev. I'd like to make accessible visual novels, but I know nothing about coding (am going to start learning this year). I'm coming at this from the view point of someone who has played mainstream games all their lives, got out of it when my vision got bad enough to not be able to see said games, and am now jumping back into gaming in general, both mainstream and audio. Is AHC going to stand up to a mainstream RPG? Probably not. Is it a good game that set out what it was planning to, and gave what it planned to it's customers? I think so! I always say this: I don't care if it's an accessible game, a mainstream game, or an indi game. MAKE A GOOD GAME!!! It doesn't matter if it's all audio, all text, all story based click and shoot puzzles: If it's an engaging game, with good mechanics, a good story, and well thought out code then people will play it. I have sighted friends who say they love some of the older text adventure games, and used to play them as much as any other game. If you want to make an all audio game, then fine, do it: But make sure the all audio aspect will lend itself to mechanics, and gameplay that will make everyone want to play it. You don't have to market it to the blind, you can market it as a game that you only have your ears to play or something like that and bam it will interest sighted players along with being accessible. It's all in marketing, all in how you approach things. I'm a firm believer in work with what you've got, so if you only have 1 engine to build a game on, make it the best game you can in that engine. Test it's limits, test your limits, be creative. In order to get accessibility in mainstream games, we have to let developers know from the start. I always say we're better off letting them know from the get go so they can integrate accessibility while coding a game (which, one of my sighted friends is actually doing in a game they are making) but sitting around and saying a game isn't accessible, when trying to do nothing to make it accessible has always bothered me. Go out and talk to devs to get accessibility in there, or make the games you want yourself!AHC raised the bar in the audio game scene for sure. I wasn't even remotely interested in anything I had heard of before - though I wasn't aware there were other RPGs made, as well. But because AHC set a new standard, people are deciding to call it a clone? Not cool. Push yourself to do something extraordinary like Out of sight games did, and see how the audio games scene not only changes, but appeals to sighted people as well. You'd be surprised how many people just aren't playing a game because they think it's only for one nitch market. Making a game only for the blind is just as limiting to a sighted player as a game with all text, and no voice acting is to a blind player. Both sides would be going "Why should I play this? I'm not ___".[[wow]] I went off on a few tangents there haha. TL;DR: AHC raised the audio game bar, and it's up to us to make audio games that can appeal to wider audiences, not with fancy sound, but with an overall good gameplay experience that everyone would want to play, no matter what format the game is in. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=348471#p348471 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-15
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : crashmaster via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? Well manamon is the clone of pokemon, but there is digimon, the japanese have cloned their own thing so it hardly seems to matter.Unlike some of us they seem to not have any issues cloning things with slightly different names.I do aggree manamon's idea is not new it is a clone but the fact there is a name change is probably enough to say that it is origional enough.Becides, if you are emulating a console you are basically making a clone of a console and no one seems to mind that much unless you don't own your cart and not everyone does. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347843#p347843 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? @Jade:The thing with FF is it's a Japanese game, and Japanese games tend to know what they're doing and take their time to get it right, it's a cultureal thing as much as anything for the Japanese to do the best they can in life or anywhere else. Remember Japan is a very honor driven society and they want to put out the best they can to live up to that honor.@Exodus: Well said. People shouldn't rip a game apart because it's similar. If you want to take it back to the basic building blocks. Every audiogame is a clone of every other just because of the fact it's limited, you're just using sounds, and in many many cases, sounds overlap and you only have a certain number of ways to convey soundss though. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347792#p347792 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-15
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Exodus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? so here's a thing that's been bothering the hell out of me for a while now. People seem to sling about the word clone like it's some sort of insult. Don't like someone's game? Durr ur gams a clone lolz. It's almost like these people think that because a game borrowed a feature or two from another game, it's automatically worthless and should be treated with the utmost disdain. Granted, some games have really taken the piss, claiming that they are doing revolutionary things never seen before(TM) and it turns out that they've just completely ripped off another game and just changed the name of things. There are also the games like crazy party, that make no secret of the fact that they are clones, Crazy party has music from just about every mario game I can think of as well as other 90s platformers like crock. That's cool it makes no secret out of the fact that this is the game it's emulating It is right there in the gameplay, the music and the sound effects. Then you have games like AHC, that lean on their RPG tropes and that's completely fair to do that kind of thing. This is out of sight's first game, and joseph pretty much came out and said I want this to emulate KOTOR/ jade empire in some ways, because I loved those games and want people to get a taste of what they were like. KOTOR leant on those RPG tropes, jade empire leant on those tropes and did you see the sighted gaming community whipping themselves up into a rage because you could form a party in those games like you could in final fantasy/ xenogear/persona/whatever I think you get the picture? You didn't because in general people realised that every game is going to have a bit of another games DNA in it, because that's generally how humans work. We see things, think hey that thing is cool and then incorporate that thing into our thing. Now, people in this community seem to think that every single game that gets released ever is going to be some special unique kind of snowflake and if it's not, it has to be ripped apart and shat on. These type of people need to STFU and get a grip on reality, because it really does not work like that. To be honest, that type of person contributes literally nothing and makes this place in general a crappier place to be in. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347789#p347789 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? All these things having been said - and there are some good points here, I should add - I do want to make a counterpoint.Final Fantasy VI came out in 1994, and it's still a damn good game. Crono Trigger came out a year later and it's hailed as one of the greatest games of its genre. Does it stand up to Skyrim for depth and complexity? Nope. Perish the thought. But what it does, it nails.This can be true of audio games as well. Games do not, absolutely do not, have to tread new ground in order to be worthwhile, but my stance is that if you're going to do something that's been done before, do it well.For me, AHC does this. We don't have too many good blind-accessible RPGs out there, but AHC does a lot right. Does it need all the fancy dialogue trees, positional audio and such to make it good? No, but those things help.I guess my point here is to remember that while it's true that good games push the bar much of the time, they don't have to. Final Fantasy took the same basic setup for years and made it work, and not just on a brand either. Ditto Mario, Zelda, even Metroid, Castlevania...you get the idea. They took something they knew how to do, did it well, and fans wanted more. Sure, they wanted better, but they also wanted more. The community has been crying for a good RPG, and Out of Sight delivered. Now that we've got a good one, it'll be up to future developers to make sure that their own entries into the genre don't just roll over the same old ground with little to no differences.Personally, anything you said about AHC, Nocturnis, I'd say about Manamon nine times over. That game is way, way, way closer to source material than AHC is, and really didn't do anything particularly innovative that hasn't already been done before to some extent. Was it fun? For a loose little romp before you figured out how it worked, sure. But would it stick as something that raises the bar in the genre? Perish the thought. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347786#p347786 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-15
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? thank you, thank you thank you thank you! with post 49 I think we can just about wrap this baby up! :d URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347785#p347785 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? I do think though that audiogames are inherently limited thoughI don't care about HRTF or binural audio or 3D audio positioning, I care about gameplay. Just as I don't care for photorealism or 4K resolutions or textures either.I'd rather have a simple looking game that plays great, than one that's all flashy graphics and barely any gameplay. I can point to the interactive movies as the logical extent of that point.IMO I'd much rather tell any developer don't focus on the flashy shit. Give me addictive and fun gameplay, give me something that I want to play. Yesyes, audiogames right now are decent but if you strip away the flashy effects, what are you really left with? I do think people are at fault for getting hung up on buzzwords like hrtf and binural audio, instead of demanding gameplay over everything else.Alsoyeah, the 8 bit era IMO was the example of gameplay first. Castlevania, Earthbound (Alright that was 16 bit),I'll even throw in platformers on the NES as well really, I'm not a huge fan of advancing hardware for consoles. I mean, I still have a C64 emulator on my laptop to play those games. I mean there's still a guy working on his C64 game 30+ years later, it looks simple as hell but it's still very very playable.. Same for NES, I'd rather have a 2018 Tecmo Bowl mod over Madden, Tecmo feels and plays a lot better IMO and isn't as hard to learn.Plus, older games were simpler and easier to pick up and playy simply due to how limited the hardware was. NES? Two buttons, d-pad, plug into the TV and put the cartridge in. Same for the SNES, just more buttons, Genessis, same deal, Even N64, same deal.yet with modern consoles it's all online this, online thattPoint is: Give me a game that's fun to play and doesn't have a million flashy effects that beats its chest bragging about binural this, 3D audio thatand it has barely any gameplay to speak of. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347768#p347768 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-15
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? @47, well phrased and precisely what I was trying to get at.If there's any system I had a ton of fun with I'd say Atari systems in generall really hit the spot. Nes was fun to some degree as well. My generation and younger thinks it's all retro trash, but I'm no longer impressed with consoles to go shell out thousands of dollars on them, remotes and online subscriptions just to game. I guess I'm getting old.Still, I can't shake the feeling that if we stopped demanding so much in the way of sound design and started putting more thought into the actual games themselves we could have more titles that would be worth buying and make audiogames more than just something blind people play. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347763#p347763 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? You've just described games as a whole Nocturnus. Yes, RPGs are similar. Game stories, regardless of what game, are predictable and safe. You play the game, it's all familiar mechanics.Is it wrong to want to raise the bar? No. Is it wrong to want that bar to reach absolutely everyone? Not at all. You can only do so much retraiding the same territory in any genre, and you know going into a genre that there's going to be certain conventions.That being said, improvement is needed, it's style over substance I feel for games as a whole, I'm much more inclined to play older games that were made for less advanced systems as gameplay generally was the key because there wasn't a ton of free space for graphics and sounds and such. Some of my favorite games are the 8/16 bit console games here and old 80s/90s DOS games really. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347760#p347760 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-15
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? That one's going to take some explaining, isn't it? AHC being a clone of TB because the same creator; that's like saying Aprone's swamp is a clone of castaways because... I'm sure you get the point.If you're going to say that AHC is a clone of anything, say it's a clone of entombed because the concept of turnbased combat is there, because the concept of exploration is there, because there's freaking gold in both games, for goodness sake. Shops? Check. Tavern? Check. Three party members you can get to go with you on your explorations? Check. Looting? The ability to find gold and items you didn't start off with before? New spells, skills and increased stats as you leve and gain XP? Check check check!and if we keep ripping it apart like this, we can claim that any game that does things like this is a clone of any other. No no no! Those of you arguing it from this perspective have missed the topic creator's purpose and point!I realize the rest of this is going to sound like a verbal spanking of sorts, and perhaps one might infer that I'm ungreatful for this particular title... I'd like to clarify that I'm not. while I have personal reasons for feeling to some degree the way I do, I'm going to leave those out of the equation and sincerely focus on this discussion as objectively as I can. I can't promise I'll do it justice, but I promise to try and beg your undivided attention throughout, regardless whether you're a dev or a gamer.Because James and I have already had this discussion, I feel I am more than qualified to weigh in on this side of the conversation; the question is not, "What makes this game not a clone?" The question is, and I quote, "What makes this game any different to the 5000 clones out there?" We can safely assume when we rip apart a game as I have shown above, that any game is a clone of any other because "insert number of random concepts I've already dealt with here." the question does not even attempt to soften, or make in any way harsh the fact, that this is, in fact a clone. Of what is arguable, but the fact is that when you step into AHC and, assuming you've played RPG's before, you're stepping into familiar territory. Perhaps it's been spruced up with more dialogue than the last one you played, and the spells and skills are called something different, and the sounds are different, and the damage types are slightly different, and the numbers are different, but it feels, for the most part, entirely the same!This is the question! What makes this game, any game, different from the last one I played that had all of the same concepts in it? What makes AHC stand out more than Entombed, to use my above example? is it just the fact that it's not a dungeon crawler? is it the fact that there were more devs on the project? is it the keystrokes? Is it the music? is it all of the above and nothing else? Could this game be more?and once we get done answering that side of the question, let us ask ourselves something else: if we were a part of the majority of gamers playing sighted games on sighted game consoles, would we be perfectly ok with sticking to the concepts, mechanics and overall play remaining almost predictable? Is Mortal Kombat exactly the same as Tekken? Do you feel the same when playing both? does Virtua Fighter feel the same as those two? If we add Street Fighter and Killer Instinct into the mix, can you honestly say that if you've seen one fighting game you've seen them all? Are all FPS games the same to you? Are all RPG's??Eventually the sighted community ends up wanting more, ends up wanting to raise the bar! Is it wrong for the blind community, and its developers to want the same? Having finally paid 20 dollars to see what all the fuss was about, I can honestly say thatI would rather have waited 10 years for AHC to come out and be vastly and uniquely different to what it is now, than having all the hype I ended up with and the anticlimax I felt when realizing that this is something I've played before with more sopistication thrown in! the marketing was brilliant! The design is different! the sounds are different! the keystrokes are different! The places, items, names of people and even the way they interact with one another, are all different! Perhaps I'll find that when I have the time to actually sit down and play through the whole thing that the replayability is even different! the game, the mechanics, the way you play it and the purpose for which you're working toward, though, it all feels like I've done it before! That doesn't make it a horrible title, and it's not a purchase I regret making, but if I'm going to stay in the ag market as an audiogamer, I believe I have the right to ask and kindly d
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-15
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : whiteknave2 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? JaceK wrote:Hey. I'd play a Chrono Trigger audiogame thanks. That game was a classic.Also FWIW, AHC is, by your description a D&D clone, so that argument's back on D&D borrowed an incredible amount of material from Tolkien, and he from Norse and Celtic mythology. There's a difference between a clone, and utilizing conventional genre specific tropes. Not all tragedies are Romeo and Juliet, and not all horror movies are Halloween. So that argument is back off Sorry, had to.- Nate URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347749#p347749 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-14
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? AHC is wait, a tactical... battle clone? wait wait wait, wait wait.. just... hold up. The dude who wrote tactical battle wrote the engine for AHC, its... his... engine, so its a clone. oh, lord, please., if there is a deity, or a force of energy, please call me higher, because I can't live among the people of this earth anymore, my destiny is not here, please, please call me up. Let me go explore space or something, get off this god forsaken planet. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347651#p347651 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-14
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CAE_Jones via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? Yeah, BK3 is still the bar for the average dev, IMO. That I've been aiming for that since 2005 and still can't get there informs my pessimism a bit of a bit.Balancing optimism vs realism is hard. Low expectations are horrible, and ought to be fought at every opportunity. Nevertheless, I see problems that seem impervious to Great Expectations, effort, patience, etc, etc.But the fact that we have Bokurano Daibouken and A Hero's Call at all says that these things are not impossible. Even if we are at "roll the dice until you get a 20", someone has to keep rolling the dice.Roll for Initiative, Biscuits. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347646#p347646 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-14
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : UltraLeetJ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? this goes on way in hand with the other topic I had created that discussed pretty much the exact same issue. Which is, audio game market. But only because this one talked about the hippest and latest people were probably more likely to reply to it. Anyway I feel that,1. Some of the games that have lready been created did so based on ideas that came very very close to matching those from the regular, sighted raphical type of games from where they got their inspiration. So maybe its not that we cannot just compete or work with sighted people on every type of gaming period, there are some type of games that might be better to adapt than others and that can be 100% done.To put this example to use. having the rather pesimistic view that we will never be able to this or that... is what is exactly preventing things from avancing, evolving, growing. I am a pro musician, thankfully making a decent living off of it, and 98% of my colleagues are sighted and they all do the exact same thing. If we would put the same gaming analogy translated to this, that would mean I would be a starving, dependant person and so I would do some other thing with my life.Do I have to do tings differently? sometimes. Are things I simply cannot do in music? Yes. Just sightreading and watching some graphical representation of a waveform. has that prevented me from earning money with what I do or from others to praise some of the stuff I do? certainly not. 2. A hero's call is new. At least it has things to offer in the audio gaming world and with very nice sound design. But its not the only example. Bk, especially bk3, being created by a single person (which is the most amazing part) features amazing sound effects, very interesting puzzles to solve, fast-passed action, some interactions with things, exploratory, kind of iddling portions too, lots of unlockables, a lot of replayability because of statistics you could manipulate as you levelled up, and killer music. The story might not be really good but again, just a single person was initially behind all of this. So the bar is definitely raising, quite high. And if i am not misstaken it was done in the insidious bgt which my antivirus solutions have never reported as a false alarm by the way. So no its not really time for a new pain job. Its time for making it better and letting it still evolve some more regardless of game style, programming choices or playability.3. Much of what has been going on is simply a lack of unity and overall, a lot of decentralization of community, information, and resources. The audio gaming sector has many causes for its fragmentation and that will hiner progress too. I am thankful we do even have games specifically for us at all. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347642#p347642 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? Hey. I'd play a Chrono Trigger audiogame thanks. That game was a classic.Also FWIW, AHC is, by your description a D&D clone, so that argument's back on URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347590#p347590 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? Let's put one ridiculous idea to bed.AHC is not a clone. It's not even close.Does it use a similar engine to Tactical Battle? Yes it does. Does that mean it's a clone? Absolutely not. One is a real-time strategy game, the other is a turn-based RPG. Sorry, the argument is busted right there.If you want a clone, look no further than Manamon, which is a pokemon clone. That is about the purest clone I have ever seen, ever, in my audio-gaming lifetime. Here are some examples of why.1. In both games, you have a party of up to 6 monsters with one or more types which battle teams of other monsters2. In both games, you start the game to go on a journey to be the very best, choosing from one of three creatures (in most cases, anyway) to begin your adventure and establishing a semi-friendly rival3. Funny, but there are woods/forest areas near the beginning of a lot of pokemon games, as well as manamon4. In select cities, there are gyms/stadiums where you go to face a boss where you get recognition for winning5. In both, there's an evil organization bent on taking over the world, or...something6. You use little devices like nets or balls to capture wild creatures, can use items in or out of battle to heal or refresh them, and each creature has a variety of moves of specific types which can be used to affect either themselves, their allies or foes7. Each city has a building specifically to heal your creatures8. Creatures can be given items to hold which have properties which may (or in some cases really may not) help in battle)9. The creatures will level up and learn new moves, and will eventually turn into new versions which have higher stats10. Said stats are almost identical in both pokemon and manamon11. The types are a bit different, but fairly close in both ways, right down to interactivity (poison is weak to magig/psychic, earth/ground is weak to water and grass/plant and ice); we're talking name changes and small tweaks in most cases12. A lot of the functionality of moves is ripped straight out of pokemon. 100-power ground-type attack called Earthquake. 95-power flame type attack called Flamethrower or Torch. A standard/normal move which has 35 base damage and 95 accuracy called Pounce/Tackle. A plant/grass type move which puts the foe to sleep called Sleep Powder/Sleep Spray...plus half a hundred more.I rest my case. You want a clone, call Manamon a clone.AHC has turn-based combat, uses mages and rangers and priests and thieves and warriors and necromancers. So it's an RPG using a fair number of typical RPG conventions. This no more makes it a clone of anything - Tactical Battle, Final Fantasy, you name it - than anything else.Now, if AHC's main character's name was Cronus, and the first thing you had to do was go to the thousand-year fair and meet a crazy inventor chick named Lucile and then save a princess named Marla? Then okay, sure, call it a Crono Trigger clone. Until then, let's limit our commentary to things that actually make sense.I'm sick and tired of that "clone" word being flung about. Stick it where it's earned. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347556#p347556 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-13
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : crashmaster via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? well ian reed is part of outofsight.Ahc is not exactly a clone but its the final release of the rpg engine beta.Before there was tactical battle which is still good but if it creates enough units it will simply run out of memmory buffer space and crash.So its a clone of itself I guess thats what ahc is I guess.As for the rest.Ms forcing on us, to be honest that doesn't happen anymore ms even admitted they stuffed up.But that does bring up an interesting twist.Win10 and xbox use the new universal app design.Here is the issue universal implies use for and by everyone.Not every app is accessible.It would be nice if they were, you can play your xbox on win10 and vice versa, thats pritty close to an accessible program.Sadly with ms moving their music store to spotify, and a few other things like killing windows phones as no one wanted to write apps for them, the only reason you would use an ms account is if you have a console, want to read news and weather and use the calendar.You do not need to sign in with a ms account or use their sucky outlook service for your sucky email.You can add google and yahoo services to win10 to use their features etc.What I like is the idea of running your apps on consoles, including emulated desktop apps, and console games on the pc assuming you have a console.So in theory nvda could run on the xbox as can goldwave, as can probably a lot of extra things.Thats pritty close to accessibility in the os, the games are another matter.But we have a platform now and ms seems to be thinking about us at least enough that they seem to be releasing things and a few of them to boot.Bar skype which I won't go into I think they are doing well.A sightling that used windows 10 didn't notice the ribbons and other things in windows so visually ms seem to be doing something different.At least you can seeminglessly switch.One thing that would be nice is if windows cleared all the recovery partitions unused after or during upgrade or had a tool to clear previous recoveries easily without all the issues of trying to see what is what. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347482#p347482 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-13
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CAE_Jones via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? It's a clone in the sense that every turn-based RPG is a clone of Final Fantasy, I guess. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347448#p347448 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? The person that started this thread mention that AHC is a clone.I would like to know what game is AHC is suppose to be a clone of?I will say that even if a game is a clone of a video game that is alright with me.I use to be able to play video games when I had my sight and still wish I could play some those titles as a blind person.So if someone makes a clone of a video game that I use to play I think it is great because I get that chance to play again. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347441#p347441 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-13
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? @Jade,I like it. the rest of us, lets try to take a step back and breathe a little; I'm sure we're all passionate concerning our feelings on this subject and that's perfectly fine, but a few posts out here concern me owing to the negative conotations and heavy pessimism. that we can game at all should honestly not be overlooked and taken for granted. I'm not backing down on my original stance; yes, lets raise the bar, and lets try to do it without bowling each other over in the process. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347397#p347397 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? I just want to jump in with a couple of things here.1. I agree that we will never game on quite the same playing field as the sighted. That's just the way it is. We're going to be better at some things, they're going to be better at some other things. That's just the way it is. Live with it.2. AHC was not, as far as I know, compiled by a group of professionals. Yes, it's good, and yes, there was a lot of work and research and prep that went into it, but we aren't talking about a fully-fledged studio here. We're talking about a few people who had a dream, took that dream apart and figured out the bits that work as well as the bits that didn't, then spent years finding out how to build it. Guess what? I'm doing precisely the same thing right now with someone who knows how to code in python. AHC deserves all kinds of praise, but it isn't this impossible bar, and some of the hype surrounding it has been, if I may say so without offending anyone, overblown. Not anywhere near as overblown as manamon, mind you. lol3. This whole thing really comes down to personal preference. Do you want to make a game that caters to the blind, or do you think you need to cater to the sighted in order to gain legitimacy? Personally, I think if a game is strong enough in its own arena, that's justification enough to make it...but that's only me. AHC wants to spread, and that's awesome. If nothing else, it may improve upon the impression given to others outside the community. But not every game has to do that, and not every game considered "good" must do that by definition either. I'm telling you now, my RPG is very likely not going to go graphical. It's going to be an audio game, which is going to limit its market penetration to some extent. But hey, if it gets released and someone sees it and decides they think they can help make it graphical somehow? Then sure, we'll talk. But primarily it's an audio game. That won't mean it's bad or inferior. I don't intend to just give it a lick and a promise and call it done. That would just be a matter of adding one more piece of kindling onto an already chaotic bonfire. No thanks. I have better things to do. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347391#p347391 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? Right Player and the 'hardore' Madden fans bitched about their game being accessible to blind and disabled players instead of fixing broken features, it seemed EA according to the hardcore Madden 'fans' put more emphasis on acessibility than fixing broken bits of Madden.Also for Namco/Bandai.I was invovled with Project CARS 1, which is where my source came from meetings I was privy to. While I can't go into exact specifics publishers do want the biggest return. Maybe if SMS hadn't signed on with Namco/Bandai PCARS 1 would have been accessible.but.here's the problem Player, at least for SMS.With their engine it's not just a case of spoken menus. It's a case of doing a hell of a lot more accesibility, high contrast, closed captioning, subtitles, alternate controls and catering to all disabled, not just one part of it. The issue with the SMS engine was it wouldn't support any of that (well bsdies captioning and subtitles in cutsenes) without a massive massive ground up rewrite. It wasn't financially viable at the time honestly, I won't give out exact amounts, but upwards of 300-400k to rewrite it and the game's budget was 3 million for development, so there's a good chunk of it gone on accessibility before Namco signed on and put more funds in.Yes, beat em ups are the easiest argument but.here's an issue.it does take time and effort to make a game accessible, and that time and effort may well be put toward other features. Plus, a game goes gold a while before release and is thus feature complete. Sure, they could add in accesssibility in a free update, yes, but for adding it in during developmentit's a ball and strike call, or, do we put in accessibility and divert team members from say, story or MP or do we focus on those and the bigger market.Point is, yes stuff like Code 7 exists, but that's the exception not the rule. Gaming is still dominated by the big guys who, frankly, do not give a fuck about disabled people till their market share increases or a law mandates it, and I did hear at SMS circa 2011/2012 that Namco and other big publishers would lobby hard against any laws requiring games to be accessible, but that was 5-6 years ago, I somehow don't think that sentiment has changed a great deal, publishers still lobby for laws that let them make the most money and they'll argue making games more acessible will hurt sales and drive down profits. Whether that's a valid argument is up for debate but publishers love making money and hate anything that detracts from that (See the Battlefront 2 2017 lootbox controversy for instance, EA lost 3 billion bucks off of that and were last heard lobbying to keep lootboxes unregulated))Sono blind gamers may not be forgotten but they aren't the target of any huge publishers. I still think AHC will be this quirky blindie game on Steam, and I still think the majority of sighted and blind gamers on steam will be split, the sighted may well downvote it into obovion and the blind gamers will be positive about it, I just have a feeling theAHC steam forum's gonna be a huge huge mess.That, andyeah, Namco are Japanese so different culture there as well. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347350#p347350 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-13
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : the player via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? @JaceKOk. Maybe, going to a convention with a game, that has only audio, wouldn't work out that well. But there are games, that are trying to cross this bridge. Code 7 for example. And the developers were at the GC last year. And things have changed in the last year. EA tried, to add at least some accessibility features to one of their games. Microsoft made the Xbox more accessible. And, as much as I don't like Windows 10 and Microsoft's way of forcing it onto their customers, I have to admit, that the OCR is really handy, when it comes to gaming. You said, you spoke to Namco and Bandai. I agree, that the market would be too small to make games especially designed for us. But that is actually not what I'd wanted. Let's take Tekken for example. Yes, I know. Beat-Em-Ups are always the easiest argument for blind gamers :-). But I can't come up with a different, non-beat-em-up related title from Namco.So, how much additional efford would it take, to make this game fully accessible? Since I don't know anything about programming, I really don't know. But I doubt, it would be that much of a difference.I guess, what I am trying to say is, that we are not completely forgotten out there. Even if the casual gamer might think, we can't play their games, only because we can't see. We wouldn't have to convince them. We would have to convince all the developers. I think, in the end, it all comes down to how much financial efford it takes, to make a game accessible, and how well the response to that would be. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347335#p347335 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? Well said URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347287#p347287 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CAE_Jones via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? Note: probably deleting this later, because reasons.Reality's a Grench, so to speak. 100 years ago, we were just starting to change the millennia-old status quo that everyone was either a farmer, craftsman, ruler, or fighter. I suppose there were always merchants entertainers and hookers, too, but they were far less prevalent than today. Nowadays, entertainer >> merchant >>>> farmers and craftsmen, according to culture, and the economics differ only in that people clearly underestimate the value of working a craft. How has your area taken the 20th century? How about your extended family? Have we adapted fast enough to keep up with the demands of the post-farmers-and-fighters* world? I mean, someone has, because we have Play Stations, Space Stations, smart phones and robots on Mars. But most of us? It doesn't matter who failed who if nothing improves.There have been blind people as long as there have been people, approximately. I assume it took a double-digit population, at least, but that's beside the point. The point is, in the first century, blind people were beggars who had to be led everywhere and Jesus himself said they'd fall in a pit trying to lead themselves. By the 19th century, someone had realized that one can get loads of mileage out of a stick, ears, and social skills. 180 years ago, someone finally ththought "You know what? This not being able to literacy thing is unacceptable and has a simple solution". Screen readers are the most impressive innovation in accessibility ever, because they didn't lag centuries behind the sighted world.I have no idea who invented canes, but Braille? Blind guy. Jaws? Blind guys. Nemeth? NVDA? Blind, blind, blind. The vOICe was developed by a sighted person, AFAIK, and we've certainly dragged our heels on taking full advantage of it.Things apparently have to go extraordinarily well for accessibility innovations to take, and most of them come from blind people. One would think that, in an age of plenty, we'd see more of this sort of thing. Instead, we're giving Microsoft and Apple tips on making their built-in screen readers better, because it's the law and they're among the richest entities in history.We're better off than ever, and so we're stagnating. The pits of old are no place for progress, but neither are the ball pits of new. Put me on a mountain, and I can thrive. Put me in suburbs full of strangers with whom I have only nationality in common, and you get this. Why? Probably because we were made for a world that has been subsumed by steal and gold. Those who can adapt have left us behind. The only incentive to care is shame and law. Where is our Louis Braille, or our Hellen Keller, or our Abraham Nemeth, or our Ted Henter? Why are they not among us? Is anyone going to answer the call?* Farmers and Fighters sounds like a cross between DnD and Castaways. Want. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347282#p347282 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : kaigoku via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? OK. So, in my opinion, I think we need to acknowledge two fundamental things:1. In this little corner of the Internet, our population suffers from lack of numbers with respect to people sharing similar interests. In other words, you may have a small group of people who enjoy FPS, while you have another, bigger group of people who enjoy RPGs. Now, taking the smaller group of people who enjoy FPS may be further divided into smaller groups of people who enjoy a certain type of FPS style. This trend tends to continue in such a way so as to prohibit an agreement in games with innovation being produced. A prime example is Redspot. No offense to Sam Tupy, because indeed, I find myself playing that game from time to time. But this kind of game only attracts certain kinds of people. OK. Whether or not Redspot is to be considered an FPS is somewhat irrelevant. I think I made my point.2. Our population tends to yield very few talented programmers. I am in no way trying to offend, but it's undeniable that some of our best developers are experienced, or were fortunate enough to learn good programming practices. For the most part, this means that programming was studied in school or as part of a higher education curriculum. And no, I do not consider myself one such great programmer. In that respect, I am afraid that I am in agreement with those who mention BGT as being obsolete. Now, I'm not trying to say that someone couldn't learn programming by just studying it at one's own pace. It can be done. It's just for someone to get good that way is quite rare these days. We have a few examples of people in this community who were able to do just that. Programming is an art, and for someone to claim that making a new game is no less than time consuming and frustrating is quite an ignorant statement to say. In the same mindset, it is my belief that part of the reason for why we get the same type of games, so to speak, is simply a matter of them having been produced before. You give someone a game with a certain style, and most likely, you'll get games similar to those already played, provided this player becomes a potential developer. Unfortunately, some programmers tend to be quite arrogant, and tend to keep all their valuable development secrets to themselves. OK. Maybe that's a bit too harsh. The reason I bring it up is because in some programmer circles, you won't be helped if you don't even know the basics of linear algebra. For the most part, this community happens to be very nice when more experienced developers help out the newbies. I was once there!Another thing that people should keep in mind is that programmers are programmers. Most of us (yes, I included myself; deal with it) are too proud to admit we need help. You could be the best computer scientist in the world, but have a crappy brain for coming up with innovative game ideas. This is why when people claim they have a great game idea, we should try to listen. Perhaps some potential exists there. And while I'm just writing away as the thoughts come into my head, I might as well put this out there: We need some centralized place where developers can help each other out by writing COMPREHENSIVE articles on audiogame-related development. Sort of like a website like howtogeek, or something like that. I emphasize COMPREHENSIVE because techs tend to make information way too complicated! lolExample: (assuming this is a beginner programming course) To compile a C program, you should pass the -L and -I options to GCC to specify directories for libraries and included header files.Yeah. I was confused at first too. A beginner article could introduce the concept of libraries and header files. I don't know. Maybe that was a bad example. lol IN summary: We should just help each other, and maybe even start a central development HowTo website exclusively for programming articles. Not a forum, but an actual development portal for potential audio game developers to learn the basics of trig as it relates to sound positioning in 2d and 3d, vectors, etc. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347275#p347275 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? @28 tha's a rather defeatist attitude to have. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347242#p347242 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? @28, the thing is, we can't force the sited to comply with our demands. Suing them will only destroy our reputation -- the NFB has already done an excellent job of that, thank you very much, with there "let's-go-around-and-demand-that-companies-make-everything-fully-accessible-and-if-they-don't-we-sue-the-fuck-out-of-them" mentality. The thing is, last I heard there was only 180 million or so blind people in the world (or maybe it was the US?). Either way, that's only about 2.5 percent of the worlds population. That's not even near a majority. We can't force the sited to do shit because it wouldn't be that hard for them to eliminate us metaphorically by stripping all our rights from us. It wouldn't be that hard for them to physically destroy us -- they outpopulate us by 7411638243901159 to 288230376151711744 (or is it 1447585594511945 to 562949953421312?). Either way, the sited have the majority. We have no choice in the matter. And that mentality of forcing the sited to do what we want is exactly what got us here in the first place -- us forcing our attitudes and ideals onto others. If you do that then your no better than a bully and an arrogant prick, and will most likely get shot. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347193#p347193 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : crashmaster via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? I actually object to the blindy interface thing.Point is more than ever we need our own interface or at least a way to navigate the interface of anything such that the sighted won't notice.They have their interface, we have our interface, maybe its a more inclusive interface.To be honest with the way in some respects mozilla and microsoft have gone, I am getting actually sick of mainstreaming and I was all for it a couple years ago.The reason we as users have in a lot of cases been even able to get along with the sighted interface is to struggle on the edge, who knows if it will be ok tomorrow.In the early days we had our interface, they had their interface and both parties worked out ok.I don't care to be closed minded but I do feel that the requirements for abled and disabled are starting to have major differences in them.In gaming, they want loads of graphics, loads of power, loads of well everything.With a large team of 400 or more people, large companies, licencing to boot and if things go wrong they can battle it out in a lot of cases.Now us, audio, right now, though give it time, maybe we will eventually see, maybe braille and audiogames will be old tech.Virtual reality maybe who knows.At the moment though I am happy we have our interface and they have theirs.NNow I am not sure about the situations of some of the posters here but even with family help I can't nore wish to be available to afford the state of the art gaming machine.In most cases, to buy a new bit of hardware is a big ask for the general user.1. unless he has a job and a lot of us do not, well at least the ones I know do not, we have to save for it.I am targeting 2-3k for a system locally, maybe there are cheaper who knows.The point, though is this, to upgrade a machine to the sighted for the most part simply is.If the graphics card screws up get another.If you want the latest bit of kit, buy it.Guess what, we are blind so we can't or at least will find it difficult to do so, not all of us have all that cash I am with family so I have cash to burn but thats not going to last for ever.To buy a new machine is a huge thing.At first we had school and maybe like me university of some sort, later, maybe had enough cash for 1-2 units for jobs etc.The only reasons I have replaced anything is if it broke or became so insecure I had no choice.Most of our stuff is 32 bit, we could be still ok for the most part on win98 or even xp, thats the level of most of our gear.We don't even need win7.I do feel that over the years we have let the sighted some leeway, well I for 1 am sick of doing that.Fact is we have struggled with their stuff, well now its payback time.For those that complain about this, maybe we should put it in some prospective.We do not need graphics.We have in some cases a lot of trouble with sound enhancements.Look at some of the software today which is still inaccessible, things like newer versions of skype, control panels for displays, sound, a lot of other things.I am not sure if its the pc only but even so.Even if you were able to upgrade your pc, that software we use especially if its a comercial screen reader and some of us still use those from time to time me included means we need to get that upgraded.And not all of us are fully tech savi.It took me a while but one thing that I have been doing over the last 3 or so years is chucking out and upgrading as much of the old hardware we all use.That meant I had to let go of some stuff that was accessible to get their inaccessible replacements all for the reasons of compatability with the sighted world.With the way toshiba is going I am going to have to give up even more accessibility with stuff I like to get that.I don't care for what is going on, I think its an insult mozilla even suggests that our screen readers are insecure, so the way that we use them maybe insecure but who's fault is that.They give us nothing and do it to late and complain.So what do we do, sit in our corner?And if that were not bad enough everything accessible seems an afterthought unless you have a smartphone and who knows with that.The so called things will be better movement is going down real fast, the promises I thought we would get we havn't fully got as such.As for gaming, I think for now we have got as far as we will ever get.Look, at it this way.We don't always use the right licenced sounds, we may from time to time have issues.We have smaller teams.If we get sued, the only way is to give the sightlings what they want because we can never win.I do wander if its worth the big fight anymore.20 years ago in my pirating days, I'd have thought it was worth it, but not now.So the fact the sighted may have to use our interfaces well its time for payback.We are never going to get big, so lets add graphics on to our stuff and see what they think about it.In a other world it would be good if company x added maybe no
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? @iron: I don't need to write a tutorial on setting up Python with Pyglet/Pygame. There are already tutorials that do that. And, Hint hint, Death Match: Project Alpha and Death Match: A New Beginning were *not* written in BGT. Those two are hardly played any more, which is fine; I don't play them either. But they were good in their day. What does need a tutorial is getting libaudioverse to work under Mac OS X or Linux. Now that is a bitch. Thing is, once you get the basic system stuff set up with pyglet/pygame, it's mostly game-dependent work you need to do to get a working game. And yes, while it is mostly the games that are released too early that makes BGT look bad, it's also the fact that it *doesn't* have multithreading support (which is very, very *bad*), and that it's impossible to add graphics if you want to (another *bad* thing). I get that threads are hard to work with sometimes (mutexes, anyone?) but if we want to come even half a year closer to the sited community then multithreading needs to be there.And, of course, BGT isn't extensible. So that's another bad mark on it's rep. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347165#p347165 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? No, @24 I'm saying it'd be one of many and it'd be entirely up to the convention organizers who if any they invite. Same for games as a whole, the big publishers run the show and in the last year, indie games have gone AAA (We Happy Few and the resulting mess that caused).I feel audiogames at a convention would go one of several waysEither they're acurious novelty drunk conventioneers check out for the hell of it and bitch how there's no grahpics and it's boring, or you'd get the rabid blindies at a convention fanboying it up and annoying the hel out of the rest of the convention, that happens more than you think, or they'd simply get ignored in favor of bigger and better marketed games by bigger publishers who have the money to court the media into covering their games, not some little blindie game that has a tiny booth in a corner.Thing is, sighted gamers regard blind games with a sort ofnot really curiosity, more derisive snarky curiosity, more of the 'How can they play games if they can't see?' mentality really, I can go back through pages and pages from the big industry sites and publications and blind games only get a few mentions if that compared to regular games. I worked at SMS for five years from 2011 to 2016 and I raised accessibility with Namoc/Bandai at the time, their response was the market is too small to make accessibl games, we need to focus on making games that sell well.Which says it all really, at least for Namco, they want to turn a profit. I get that.My other worry with aggressive marketing is it'll reinforce the 'pushy blind guy' stereotype, the militant one who is waving their cane around screaming for everything to be acessible even when it's not possible. That mindset is still very very out there depending on where you are.I somehow think marketing any audiogame is tricky enough on its own, but thrown in the marketing budgets of giants like EA, Ubisoft, even Valve and then you've basically got no hope unless you build a community by word of mouthbut that only goes so far. That, and on Steam there's dozens if not hundreds of games released every day so your game would get lost in the shuffle. Oh, I hear you say, get the big Youtubers to do a video?Double edged sword. If they like it, the general public may not. If they don't, and tear it apart nobody will buy it, there's a direct correlation between what a big creator says and sales figures. That, andonce again, there's this cynicism from gamers as a whol towards blind people, and towards the stereotype of the militant blind guy who wants to sue everyone and fly a plane and drive a race car and go to space and won't take no for an answer and sues everyone. That stereotype is still existing because of quite a few factors.So.where do I think audiogaming goes?Downwards. AHC is not your typical audiogame, and I sent the site link to a few sighted gamers who I explained the idea behind AHC to, they were intrigued until they read the site and found the streams, they aren't interested, in, quote 'some blindie game that talks to you'. That, I feel is a huge huge issue that needs sorting out as far as accepting games goes...there's a ton of work that neds to be done on both sidesand I doubt it'll ever get done simply because of the divide between blind gamers and sighted gamers, the blind gamers stereotypically want sighted games to be inclusive and the sighted gamers just want to be left alone to game in peace without blind gamers forcing their accessibility on them.@Iron: I'll go find the PD glitch video that IIRC shows how you could do it, I know roughly how you did it but it took a ton of trial, error and breaking the physics engine a lot. Also, Timesplitters is just as good as Perfect Dark too. PS2 over N64 any day URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347154#p347154 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? @21 damn bruh, you dark. I thought I was the dark one around here, but even I have more mope than to realize things in audiogames are changing. In a century, you think we'll be playing audiogames like oh insert buggy BGT thing here? Who even knows, a lot of advances I thought we'd see, especially medical ones are coming sooner and sooner, so in 81 more years,, I can't even imagine what we might be on.I both agree and disagree about the BGT thing. I agree that it has limitations, my god if you use dictionaries, be prepared for slow and cra-crunch. But, I don't believe, and I've been proven correct a few times, that its not possible to make a good game in BGT. Someone with proper coding knowledge and a good handle on game design would be able to make a game in BGT wel worth playing. Will it be an AHC, no, but people would still play it.BGT has a bad rep because people put out their projects way too early. Sure, everyone is going to go through a learning process, I am right now trying to learn it, and believe me, the stuff I'm making is both primitive, and uninteresting. But, I make each little thing to teach me some other aspect of the language. If, and that's a mighty big if, there's something that ends up coming about that I can refine into a game, I will do so, but there's no point in releasing my little starter projects. People make these bad and buggy games using BGT, release them here, and then you go oo, a new game, only to be disappointed. So just hold on until you can make something compelling, and test it thoroughly, get friends to help with it, form a sort of closed alpha ring.SO, we're flooded with these half-baked, buggy, uninteresting things, and the lowest common denominator is the game engine, but it's really not, its just people not refining their development process.@23 I tried many times. It would go into the other side, it would also go out the door, but it would stop at the ramp, it would stop at some point and not go through, I tried everything from trying to back it up through, slide it through, push it through, and never could get it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347143#p347143 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : the player via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? @JaceKSo, what you are saying is, that an audiogame could fail, so better not try it in the first place?I don't think that is the right way. Maybe an Audiogame would be only one of many. But at least it would be present there. And, at least on the E3 and the GC, indygames are very popular. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347136#p347136 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? @22: But being more visible is a double edged sword though Nocturnus, gaming conventions are already filled with games and devs and such trying to get attention, blind games would be just another game at a PAX or an E3 or an EGX or whatever other convention it is. It only takes one bad experience for the convention to go no, we don't want X game people back, or no, we're not going to book X game companies this year.@Crash: You do not need a gaming PC with a SLI Titan 980 GTX quad core setup for audiogaming though. You can audiogame on n ordinary desktop or laptop, something you can't do with games in general, wellthe latest games anyhow@Iron: You could actually glitch that hoverthing out of the helipad actually@Death: Nope, hardware limits came into it with the stuff you mentioned, you couldn't just add more memory to a 2600 or NES or Game Boy or a C64, you had to work with what you had and the games were literaly physically constrained by the hardware limits too, the controls for one thinghowever I'm of the same general opinion that I have more respect for older generation devs simply because they couldn't rely on flashy gimmicks to make their games attractive. I'll take Tecmo Bowl with a modded ROM overr Madden any day because Tecmo is fun as hell and plays very very well even now. Or I'll take Perfect Dark over Half Life 2. I know, I just shat on Valve's magnum opus.but the thing is, the N64 had absolute hardware limits. I'd even take the Genesis/Megadrive original Sonic 1 over later games in the series (though Mania is decently good), simply because the earlier games nailed gameplay because.they had to. It's sad, I don't get the same feel from audiogames, I can go hunt down 2600/5200 games andthey're still, even some 35 years on, ahead of in a lot of ways URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347127#p347127 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : the player via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? I pretty much agree with Nocturnus on that matter. If we ever want to be noticed by all the sighted players out there, and, maybe more important, by the game developers, we need to make ourselves more visible at game conventions. I think, as an audiogame, AHC is actually really great. Simply, because it gave us something, we didn't have before. It has an actual story (which is very important to me), it has, at least from my point of view, a decent replay value, and it is no sidescroller, which is also important to me. But could it stand it's ground in the sighted world?To be honest, no, I don't think so. For that, the focus was set too much on the blind comunity. If this game one day will have graphics, all the sighted players would have to get used to blind people's gaming style. And somehow I doubt, they will have that much patience...Don't get me wrong. I still enjoy playing it. But I don't think, it will ever have the strength to step out of our cosy little corner of the gamers world.If there is a game, that could have the chance of doing that, then it would be Code 7. Simply, because this game was, from the beginning developed for blind and sighted people alike. Here, we don't have a special, blindfriendly interface. Allghough I wish, it would support NVDA, so I can read along on my display. But that's a different story... URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347111#p347111 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : crashmaster via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? Well its a question on what we can afford.A gaming grade pc with loads of graphics is nice and bulky its not going to improve playing though.Till we can take advantage of everything who knows.Now we have come a long way, basic multiplayer support, 3d audio surround sound and binoral audio to name a few.We are even doing stuff in the unreal engine.To bgt, yeah we really need to stop using it.If you read in another post ethin will tell you because of how its compiled, antivirus programs see it as a virus.If its bad practice to make stuff this way, then maybe thats telling us that bgt while nice is past its used by date and maybe we need to have another engine or something that works maybe based on python3 or something.Using nvda with python2, python has proven itself to be no slouch, look we have extentions, settings, a free os dependant screen reader with little thirdparty stuff by default what else can you ask for.Will this be the next stage of gaming who knows.There is not a large enough load of companies to handle blind and sighted games.With the death of most of toshiba and its machines I am going to have to move elseware for my laptops maybe dell maybe hp.I will loose the accessibility I had had in bios, as well as a load of other things.But I have to advance I can't stay on duel core cpus for the rest of my life.Having had a muck with an ssd hdd combo I can't stay with a single drive model either.I like 7 but 10 is the future and like it or not its coming into its own.Sadly I do think the audiogames industry is dead or at least dieing.No one has rushed in to replace the large core companies that started it in 1995 at least for the pc.A lot of work on smartphones is going on but the pc seems to be in a class of smaller games lately even sighted games are now phone or console based.Where would I like us to be.The fact is sound is limited.There isn't much we can do, and no one has the cash to buuy a mega powerfull headset for gaming anyway.I have obtained a couple 1 a 100-200 dollar old senheiser the other was found in a horder friends junk it works but I don't know what it is.The blind can't afford all the big graphics and other things.Our games don't really need anything over xp or maybe 7 to run and most software is still sadly 32 bit.I think we have advanced as much as we ever will.The blind have games, making games sighted, it may work or it may not but it has to work both ways.ea and a few others are trying but still.In the latest ms dotnet release accessibility is mentioned weather that means we are being noticed or not is your pick.So the future, I don't know we could continue this going forth and back for the next century or so without any change. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347105#p347105 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? @13 I used to love playing perfect Dark. I'd start the villa and just snipe at them and then restart it after I beat the game. I'd drive the hovercraft around the institute helipad and try to get it out into the main areas, but it would never go. I used to love setting up the AI scenarios on the multiplayer maps and play those, and then multiplayer battles. It was the game that forced me to buy the ah hell, what did they call it... the expansion pack, basically the thing that added more memory to your N64. It was a cartridge thing inside a cover on the top near the front of the unit, you'd take that cover off and use a butter knife to pop the old one out, and put the new one in, then you never needed to touch it after that. Anyway, Perfect Dark were some fun fun times.@15 can we please just freaking chill about BG, seriously, if everyone did the same thing you do and forced their opinion on the other users of this forum given the slightest opportunity, the place would be crawling with nothing but clash of the titans and shit all the time.If you're passionate about this, rather than rant and rave, go do something about it. You're always touting this knowledge, but I never see anything from you in the new releases room, or anything coming up in general game discussions. You have all this knowledge, so put it to work, and either develop some games with it, or write some tutorials about how to use virtualenv or pipenv together with stuff like pygame or pyglet to make an audio game in Python. Seriously though, if all you're gonna do is point fingers, push your opinions unwanted onto other people, and act like the Hermione Granger of the development world, we as a community ought to get something back for tolerating it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347100#p347100 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? I'm with Cae here. Programing has nothing to do with it. For the most part, the community has no comparisons. Story, gameplay, replayability, all of that comes from the ideas you have. Yeah, actually putting the ideas into effect is one thing, but if you don't know what to code how can you expect to code it? We're stuck (for the most part) in a swamp of average games. Take two examples here. Cae's games which are actually pretty great story and idea wise, but gameplay isn't really intuitive. Then you have the overly simplified games with literally no challenge that people are super excited about because really, what else is there? invaders, RPGS, hell, card games. Part of why they're so popular is crisp graphics, I won't deny that. Another part though, is that they try to offer something to the gaming community at large that has never been seen before. They try to seperate their games from the rest. AHC is a perfect example of this. Ignore my opinions about the game itself, it has done something that hasn't really been done before in this community. It's a storydriven RPG with a beginning, middle, and end that focuses on multiple class paths. I suppose if you wanted to, you could throw manamon in that conversation. Up to you. Anyway, just my thoughts. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347080#p347080 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? I'm with Cae here. Programing has nothing to do with it. For the most part, the community has no comparisons. Story, gameplay, replayability, all of that comes from the ideas you have. Yeah, actually putting the ideas into effect is one thing, but if you don't know what to code how can you expect to code it? We're stuck (for the most part) in a swamp of average games. Take two examples here. Cae's games which are actually pretty great story and idea wise, but gameplay isn't really intuitive. Then you have the overly simplified games with literally no challenge that people are super excited about because really, what else is there? invaders, RPGS, hell, card games. Part of why they're so popular is crisp graphics, I won't deny that. Another part though, is that they offer something to the gaming community at large that has never been seen before. AHC is a perfect example of this. Ignore my opinions about the game itself, it has done something that hasn't really been done before in this community. It's a storydriven RPG with a beginning, middle, and end that focuses on multiple class paths. I suppose if you wanted to, you could throw manamon in that conversation. Up to you. Anyway, just my thoughts. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347080#p347080 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? No, no, CAE it's both. the tools and the user so to speak. It's a bit of everything, but it comes down to audiogames being 3 or 4 decades behind even an NES or ZX Spectrum or 2600 game, which had a lot less power than a PC.What does AHC do differently? Hype and able to convince people that they'll add graphics down the road and they'll somehow make sighted gamers curious about audiogamesat which point the sighted may well realize what audiogaming really is. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347063#p347063 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CAE_Jones via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? cae_jones wrote:It's 2018, FCOL. 20 years ago, I was still playing Sega Genesis (I asked for an N64 at one point but got a Sega Nomad instead). I still come back to some of those games, in spite of how ridiculously more difficult they are to follow now, because give a pro team with pro skills and pro funds a megabyte, an 8600 and a Z80, and they can take that megabyte of ROM and 65k RAM and outdo 99% of what we've done with hundreds of megabytes ROM and gigabytes of RAM. If miracles happen, and AHC is the start of a new age, I will be glad to have been wrong, but we've had time and ability to catch up for longer than our most active devs have been alive, and this is what we have to show for it. Color me cynical (that's jade, right? Which shade of green is envy, then?), but I feel like we're in "roll enough times, and eventually you'll get a 20" territory, still, and if we knew how to get out, we'd've done so by now.I give 0 craps about which language or toolkit people use, so long as they use it well. What does AHC do that BGT can't? HRTF. If BGT limits us, then it's not because of BGT's limitations, but rather, its convenience keeping people from developing better skills.Final Fantasy VII is a PS1 game. The Legend of Zelda is on the NES. The NES has 2kb RAM! Literally a millionth part of the less powerful CPUs still in use on PCs! These games are still popular today, even though the youngest is old enough to drink in the US. It's not the size/power that matters, but how you use it. I guarantee you that, ceterus paribus, if everyone switched from BGT to C++ right now, and were magically given mastery of all its facets, and everything they've built up in BGT is ported seamlessly, we'd still be in the exact same place, except development would take longer because of the extra typing and project management and the ways in which C++ can break that almost all of its descendants go to great lengths to forbid.The problem is not the tools. It's us. Using BGT doesn't stop anyone from buying pro sounds or hiring actors. BGT doesn't make bad gameplay design decisions for us, or make us focus on explosions over substance, or keep us from organizing and working together and raising the necessary funds. All of that is on us. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347060#p347060 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? W I think I got it after the first BGT. I won't use bubble gum tape anymore, I promise. :d URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347057#p347057 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? See, this is why I want people to stop developing games in BGT. BGT is a limiter. BGT limits us to what games we are able to produce. If we stick to BGT, and don't even try other possibilities, how will we ever advance? The sited community is more than a decade ahead of us and the more we rely on BGT and make games with it the further and further we get behind. If we even want to come close to challenging the sited gaming market (a possibility, no matter how unlikely), then we need to stop using BGT and permanently abandon it. We need to get down to either developing games by hand in C++, Python, etc.; or find a way to make use of existing game engines (because making our own game engine is not going to cut it, no matter what you guys think). But if we keep trying to make games in BGT, all it's going to do is isolate us more and more. We're already as isolated as is. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347054#p347054 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CAE_Jones via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? AHC was made by a team with professional skills over the course of around 5 years. Most Audio games are 1 or 2 people. They raised a budget, even if a small one. Like, this thread seems to keep coming back to "Audio Game developers need to step up their game", which... OK, that's true, but you're using a team of pros with lives and experience and enough patience to work at something for 5 years, who can run a successful marketing and crowdfunding campaign, as your standard of comparison. Can you put together a pro team of pros to do pro work that costs thousands of dollars? I can't. I can't put together a team of random newbies and/or amateurs.The standard for low-to-no budget, small-to-no group projects remains Swamp and BK3. Manamon falls somewhere between those extremes (just look at the development path from Adventure at C:, the collaboration on Psycho Strike, and the pricetags used to build funds).And Aprone had over a decade of experience and a job and such when he started, so the real standard is Nyanchan.There is no physical reason we can't all be as good as Nyanchan. But we've had plenty of time and this is what it took to get close. Anyone who can found something better to do with their 99th percentile superpowers, like pay rent.It's 2018, FCOL. 20 years ago, I was still playing Sega Genesis (I asked for an N64 at one point but got a Sega Nomad instead). I still come back to some of those games, in spite of how ridiculously more difficult they are to follow now, because give a pro team with pro skills and pro funds a megabyte, an 8600 and a Z80, and they can take that megabyte of ROM and 65k RAM and outdo 99% of what we've done with hundreds of megabytes ROM and gigabytes of RAM. If miracles happen, and AHC is the start of a new age, I will be glad to have been wrong, but we've had time and ability to catch up for longer than our most active devs have been alive, and this is what we have to show for it. Color me cynical (that's jade, right? Which shade of green is envy, then?), but I feel like we're in "roll enough times, and eventually you'll get a 20" territory, still, and if we knew how to get out, we'd've done so by now. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347048#p347048 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? The way I see it, we have two different types of gamers within this community this discussion needs to take into consideration, those who have played mainstream games and those who haven't. Before discovering the concept of audiogaming, I was a huge fan of mainstream games; that's what I grew up on. My brother's cousins, friends and I invested onconsoles and titles for those platforms on a regular basis quite regularly and had hours of fun as a result of it. The first audiogame I played was a game called Terraformers, a game that was made for both, sighted and blind individuals to show that the concept could in fact, be done. while it was challenging in the sense that there were puzzles to figure out and objectives to complete, the game would never, ever compare to one of my favorite mainstream titles; Perfect Dark and Body Harvest immediately come to mind.there came a time when I had to recognize that the two are, however, exceptionally different. Video game developers focus more on the graphical aspect of things because they have to, because the majority of their market, is sighted! Every single sighted person I know still feels the need to leave the lights on in my house, even in my room, when they leave because to them, lights are of the greatest importance. it never crosses their mind that they might be saving me some money by turning them off. I feel the same holds true in games; when was the last time you heard a sighted gamer say, "That rocket launcher sound was so freaking cool!"I'm not saying we can't join the markets in some senses, and I feel there are developers such as Ed Boon who have taken notice of us. If you ask me, we need to increase our visibility at gamer conventions and make it obvious that we're here and that we do game, no matter how we do it! We're going to need to reach a point, however, when we take into account that because of who and how we are, we'll never be able to game on the same playing field and levels, just as we obviously can't drive a racecar or play football or join the military and be expected to participate in the field of battle. the bottom line is, there are simply things we can't do.this is not to excuse audiogame developers and let them off the hook, however; we should continue raising the bar regardless of where we are right now and aim for where we seriously want to be, even if we never get there. Why? Simple, because success is not going to be determined by the amount of achievements we manage to score, but by the character with which we score them. If we're willing to settle for medeocrity, we can't complain that we don't get anything better. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347040#p347040 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : whiteknave2 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
"Americans have shown they prefer..." You're still myopically focusing on one market, the analogy stands. I'm certain a quick google search would provide a list of best foreign titles that are anything but westernized, half the Criterion collection is comprised of Italian and Japanese fair that tends to boggle the mind of the average Western viewer. Simply pointing out that some folks don't like it doesn't null-n-void what I expressed in my post above."The Hollywood remake never comes close," this is more an argument in favor of keeping to what one knows and does best, rather than attempting to do what's garnered success in another arena entirely. A solid strategy I and every author endorses ("write what you know").Your dismissal of the Oscar comparison because "the industry is biased" also falls flat, since their bias isn't the issue, but that they acknowledge nearly all film in whatever form it comes to them as, is. Different kinds of films, and film makers are represented, adulated, and given the respect they've earned. Celebrating the pioneers in "our" respective arenas and acknowledging that said devs and their games aren't receiving enough attention aren't mutually exclusive phenomena. We can, obviously, do the one while bemoaning the grim reality of the other. As far as devs making the best game they can I stand by it. Again you advocate for the industry and people in general to start paying more attention to said developers, then acknowledge that the only reason they don't is because of some misconceptions, and some harsh realities, regarding the types of games they develop. Bad games will always be bad, great games won't always be recognized as such by the majority of gamers (as a sighted man I can name a plethora of these), and some good games will transcend their small indie label and all the stigmas that come with it. That's just life.At the end of the day we both want these sorts of games to be the best they can be, we just don't agree on the road they ought to take to get there. I'm off to work, I hope you have a truly lovely day.- Nate
URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347034#p347034
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Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? That's a flawed analogy @10 thoughh. Actually yes American audiences have shown they prefer films to be made less foreign and some of the best recieved films have been Westernized versions of Asian films, for instance Amerianized versions of Chinese or Asian cinema, or English dubs of Japanese anime. So that's a moot point. Also, Hollywood casting American actors in foregin roles merely reinforces my point that Hollywood has a habit of Amerianizing or Westernizing foreign cinema. Some of the best movies you'll ever sit down and get sucked into are Asian cinema because they are compelling and interesting, but the Hollywood remake does not come close to the original. For instance, the Ring, Japanese vs the English version. Both are decent but the Japanese original is far, far more a horror film than the English version ever was.Next point. No. AHC specifically stated they were making a gam that blind and sighted gamers alike could play. Now that may just be marketing, however.they set that out now they have to live up to it...and considering graphics, a big part of it aren't out yet I'd still say, Iron, that qualifies as early access, if you buy a car and it doesn't have a driver's seat you wouldn't carry on driving a car would you?Your Oscars comparison, @10 is flawed as well, because, well, the Academy Awards are naturally biased, they are voted on by the movie industry and no, the videogame industry as a whole, isn't any different. Nope, they vote on their own awards, see the past few years awards ceremonies as proof.'We should celebrate the pioneeers in our arena'No, we should be looking outside our arena to grow audiogames as a whole and get it more recognized. This I feel is part of the issue with blindies, you want to celebrate your achievements and not acknowledge there's a wider world out there that you could show off what you've done, instead you go and want to restrict it to just audiogamers, when AHC is reaching out to gamers as a whole and trying to draw them in.Once more, I love the idea of AHC, I love the fact it's trying to reach out to gamers as a whole. I'm liking what I'm playin, I'm gettin a definite good feel from it BUT.here's my issue. I do think Joseph and company need to take a look at what makes mainstream RPGs work for marketing and such or even, and I hope they don't do this, sell AHC to a publishet to get it marketed right on Steam. The reason I wouldn't like AHC to be sold to a publisher is that publisher would then completely dictate what happens to AHC.. Best case? Publisher loves the concept and runs with it, adds graphics and supports the game. Worst case? Publisher does jack with AHC, no patches, no graphics, nothing. Seen both happen to games and not the games you'd expect either. Oh and they'd want all AHC discussion on their forums if it was a big publisher too.Last pointI'm not saying that differences shouldn't be acknowledged. I'm saying that audiogames shouldn't just be restricted to the blind, AHC is as I said trying to reach out to gamers as a whole but there's a ton of stigma around blind gamers from sighted gamers and vice versa. AHC is trying to change that but.Okay I have to respond to this: Devs should make the best game they can?That's a given. But. Devs should make the best game they canfor everyone. Not just blind gamers. They should make games absolutely everyone can pick up and play because at the end of the day gaming is bigger than just audiogames, there's a hell of a lot of gamers out there to wave game X at and get them to try it out. The problem right now I feel is audiogames has 'blindie game' labels, or, 'simple games for stupid blind people' mindsets from some gamers and other outlets, whih I feel looking at some audiogames could well be deservedhence my argument for reinventing audiogames, make them more compelling, more mechanically complex, more engaging to play for everyone. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347027#p347027 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : whiteknave2 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? I'm not sure I understand the issue. Not outside of wanting to see games made by predominately blind development studios break into the mainstream anyways.Folks in wheel chairs have never asked that ramps be made more "stair like." Appealing to those able to walk has never, nor should it I think, been a concern of those in the ramp making industry. Sure their market is niche, but it's there.Likewise...The Oscars have a multitude of categories for which a person in the movie industry can be recognized for their contribution to film. Nobody asks foreign film makers to make their films less foreign to appeal to a wider audience, nor do they ask Drama's to be more like comedies, or this summers action blockbuster. It's okay, I hope, for us to acknowledge that certain differences exist. Rather then trying to adopt the things that makes another more mainstream, we ought to be celebrating the successes of the pioneers in our own arena. Why? Well in this case...The needs of sighted and visually impaired players in (certain respects) will nearly always be different. Not in terms of: story, character development, and atmosphere. No, those things ought to always be in parity regardless of the audience or platform in question.However game mechanics, by necessity, will have to be not only made well and interesting, but tailored for the best possible experience for the intended demographic. I don't think audio game developers need to focus on making their "ramps" more "stair" like. I think they ought to simply be focusing on making the best game they can.As for the latter: I think better, and more aggressive marketing to get the word out needs to be done, certainly, if for no other reason than to remind the world that gamers of all stripes exist. And because the folks behind their creation deserve the spotlight for a minute or fifteen.Pardon me if none of that made much sense, I only just now woke up.- Nate URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347026#p347026 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? I mean, when you compare it to what we have, I mean yeah there are some good audio games out there, but a lot of what is made now are these small projects made in BGT that have ore bugs than you can shake a stick at, and the only people who are interested in them are, and I mean no offense in this, but people from other countries who can't by bigger releases, either because they can't afford to, or because payment systems aren't let through their governments filters, or what have you. And that's nothing against BGT either, make a compelling game using BGT, and I'll play it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347024#p347024 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : NicklasMCHD via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? And to those that wrote it. What do you mean with reinventing audiogames? Can you be more specific? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347021#p347021 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Haramir via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? Hello folks! James, I don't see personally, how this could make you unpopular. Everything you considered here is a valid and all developers should weigh it before launching a brand new game.As for A Hero's Call itself. I agree, it is not a new concept, but it is, as far as I remember, the first successful attempt at making a story driven rpg like that for the blind and VI comunity. Also it is going to have graphics. So, when producing an accessible game, it is nice to search if the idea is already available for us to try. We don't have the means to compare the accessible market to the mainstream market yet.Best regards, Haramir. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347018#p347018 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? @3: So basically doing the normal Kickstarter/crowdfunding routine of updates but actually delivering a product worth backing by blind people then. I've started playing AHC while posting this, I'm getting a good feel from it, BUT I do think it'll struggle outside of the audiogame bubble simply because there's a lot more competition@Iron: Agreed, I love the idea, don't get me wrong, I love the idea of AHC, an RPG for everyone BUT...I just don't think it'll be as successful as people think, I do think people need to keep hype in check. I like what I've played of AHC so far, but is it a GOTY? No, Not when I know what's coming for RPGs as a whole genre, even a hurriedly put together cliche RPG with graphics will get more traction on Steam. Joseph needs to send the Youtubers of the world a key and let them do videos on AHC to get the word out, but that's a double edged sword. TB's done videos on games I enjoy but he found fault with and the other way around, same with other big creators. I just feel AHC will be as I said this small little blindie game on Steam people will buy for the curiosity of it, more so when it has graphics.I'm all for games for everyone but I just think audiogames need to reinvent themselves and move on from a blindie first approach to making a game both sighted and blind can play out of the box or off the download without having to put in graphics or put in screenreader stuff and shoehorn in either once a game's in development. I sent a link to the AHC site to a few friends and their responses went from oh cool, I'll check this out to I'm not blind, why should I play this to what the hell man, you want me to lose my sight to play this. That IMO shows a problem with gamers as a whole really, There's this idea that AHC is made for blind gamers, not gamers in general, I feel Joseph misssed a trick by even mnetioning blind gamers. If I were in his shoes I'd have marketed AHC as a new RPG everyone can play with optional accessibility features. That way the mainstream gamer isn't scared off by 'omg blindie game im not touching that' mentality as there's still a huge huge stigma from both sides about games reallywhich does need to change but is a slow process. I just feel that AHC while in this community can be considered a AAA title I'm still of the opinion it's a A to AA release on the wider scale of things.Just my 0.02c here really, I just think audiogames need to reinvent themselves and figure out what they want to beEDIT: They did say graphics were going to be a big part of it Iron and unless I missed it (possible as I didn't back it) did they state graphics weren't going to be in at release? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347014#p347014 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Nocturnus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? Well put together topic and post, sir. I sincerely hope this generates a lively discussion and doesn't simply end up swept under the rug. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347011#p347011 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-11
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? I wouldn't call AHC early access as it stands right now. Just because it doesn't have graphics, OK, sure, no sighted person is going to play it right now, but would we expect them to? no. Also, I kind of agree, I don't think it will do good on steam, at least not by the standards of other well-received indie titles. For us, or well, for some of us, me included, I consider AHC to be a triple A title, and in the audio world, it kind of is. But that all goes out the window when the graphics get put in and the game gets released to the wider community. Also, I don't think its going to be as seamless as they think its going to be. For instance, you can turn off your radar, but that better be off in the steam version by default I'm telling you, because there ain't no sighted person gonna be playing and listening to beep bop, skidly boop beep, I can tell ya that right now. The game also needs a HUD, and out of combat, it would show everyone's stats, like a red health bar, perhaps a green stamina bar and a blue mana bar. In combat, it would just show the active person who you are in control of at that very moment. Then what do you have, a game that was made for blind people, but then all the stuff for blind people is in a sort of suspended mode until you turn it on. I think maybe like a very small handful of people will buy the game to play with friends, or will play with friends when the update comes out that includes graphics. Also, if they don't do something like allow you to completely disable the graphics, or maintain two separate versions, one with and one without graphics, some people might find themselves perfectly able to play the game one day, and not the next because maybe heir system doesn't have a dedicated video card or something, or if its a desktop, maybe its like 4 or 5 years out of date.SO yeah, there are some considerations to be made, discussions to be made among the development team there, I'm sure at least the ground work of this has been started though. On the whole, I do applaud them for coming out with a game that has rocked the audio gaming community, and I don't see how anyone can think otherwise really. Even if you don't like RPG's, its still a feat of excellence that the game has such well thought out sound design that tops just about any other audio game. Also, hopefully this has set a spark in motion that lights a flame under the asses of other developers to start making higher caliber games URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347010#p347010 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? Hi,I think the other thing and the point that the original poster seems to be making, is that A Hero's Call really got a massive following, and why more games don't do that.Well:The team for A Hero's Call gave us textual updates once announced, and kept on going with that. I don't know how this happened, but there was soemhow a respect for the time it was taking. I have heard of devs who gave up because people kept on asking when this or that game was going to be released. Yet with AHC, this didn't seem to happen, even before we had a release date set, people were, somehow, content to wait for it, which is seriousl how it should be, as long as the dev still lets us know that he/she/they are around, or, in the case of Japanese audiogame releases, surprises us out of the blue sometimes.It also takes time to create a game like this though, and a lot of it. AHC took around four and a half years, I was checking back on old topics as I was doing a bit of research and pointers because I'm trying to spread the word a bit, and back in around 2013 Joseph was asking for a sound designer, and now, that game they were talking about back then, turns out it was, indeed, AHC. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347009#p347009 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? IMOand these are my thoughts:1. AHC is an audiogame at the end of the day. It's an audiogame trying to appeal to both blind and sighted gamers. Now I don't have the game (YET) but I did read the actualgraphics.part is coming in an update. I don't think that'll help with sighted gamers any at all, I don't think any sighted gamers who backed it will be pleased to discover there's no graphics in a game they backed to appeal to both blind and sighted gamers. Don't get me wrong, I love the concept of a game everyone can play. Buttif it's missing features, state it on the website. Put in Early Accesss on Steam, State it's an early acccess release on Steam. Say it's not a fnail build. This applies to everyone, I can look at a new release and assume it's a final version simply because it's in new releases on here, Perhaps there should be an early access subforum in the new releases rarea and the new reeases area is only for final, finished games. Just as a thought, it's what Steam did after all and that gave the world a hell of a lot of asset flipped games BUT it gave the world actual outstanding games.2. Everyone is making games, This is not a new thing, indie games are coming out left and right. For every Minecraft or in this case AHC there's a billion indie games nobody plays, for every HL2 there's a billion Rogue Warriors, games so badly made they're fodder for internet mockery. I think this community and the indie game sene in general is too ego centric, the 'I will make MY game and screw you guys' attitude, it's, for a lack of a better word, a clusterfuck of games, and it seems to me to be a popularity contest, if you're on good terms with a big name, you'll get noticed a lot faster.3. I think audiogames are inherently limited, I think AHC will struggle to crack the mainstream simply because it is an audiogame. Short of having a big team and a huge publisher to do sound and graphics design, I have this feeling AHC will just sit there and get a small following on Steam and GOG and wherever else, and just be this curious little indie game, while the Baldur's Gate type games of the world rule the genre. I don't think the fact it's made for blind gamers will help any.In order to crack gaming as a whole, I feel audiogames have to reinvent themselves and go out of the box. Forget the 'for the blind only' approach. Get your sighted and blind team together and come up with stuff everyone finds fun and works from both ends, find a common ground and go from there. If you have to, say, build it in Unity and make your own TTS and sound stuff, if it gets through to everyonethen at the end of the day it's a win win situation, but I doubt that'll happen because there's a huge huge stigma from both sides IMO, the blind people are deeply suspicious of sighted gamers, the sighted don't think blind people game since they can't see the screen (no, seriously...that's a mindset) and the blind people typically give crap right back to them and start a bitching fit with sighted gamers.IMVHO blind gamers need to break out of cultural isolation and take a sniff around Steam, find their favorite genres, get a few sighted guys togetther on a team, and find a game absolutely everyone can enjoy, not just five or six blindies arguing over software. The world's bigger than that. This community will not sustain a publisher wanting sales, they have to reach out to everyone to get a return on their investments. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=347005#p347005 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job?
2018-01-10
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CAE_Jones via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Is it time for a new paint job? What AHC had going for it that most audiogames lack? Pros with stable pro-lives, pro-level experience, a team with specific tasks, lots of meticulous planning and care (it was better than anything I've ever done in 2014, and that was before the pro-class marketing and fundraising, etc). This was some medium-sized company levels of care, resources, and professionalism, and if Out of Sight had been a medium-sized company instead of a small company, I can only imagine where we'd be by now.I cannot do that. Most of the current crop of prolithic devs cannot quite yet do that, but maybe some among them can within the next 5 years. You need a lot of things to go right, and the group of people interested in this community and the group of people who can consistently bring enough of those things together to truly and satisfactorily innovate are rare to overlap. Most of those who can find something more worthwhile to do with those superpowers.At this point, I'm wondering how Nyanchan pulled off so much awesome over the course of not even 5 years. With Manamon, we saw VGStorm's progression from Adventure At C: through Palidin and Psycho Strike and The Gate, and Psycho Strike was partly a collaboration with Philip Bennefall. You can follow the progression. Yukio just kinda showed up with half a dozen solid minigames and an RPG, without any signs of business-like strategy in the background in spite of continuing with better stuff for years thereafter. It'd be nice if more of us could manage that.TLDR: AHC doesn't change much because no one around here, other than like 2 people, show signs of being able to replicate what made it possible. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346972#p346972 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Is it time for a new paint job?
Is it time for a new paint job? So I'm sure that after this post I'll be vastly unpopular, but I feel it's worth discussing.We are in the year 2018, and have just had a pretty successful release in the form of A Hero's Call. While I will be the first to tell you that I understand things like these are not something that just happened over night, is it time to reevaluate and go right back to basics, as it were?I'm talking about things like:What makes this game any different to the 5000 clones out there?What will make people want to come back and keep playing for longer than 5 minutes?When I sit down tomorrow and hammer out another game, will I think about the game I just made yesterday?How can I get the best with my sound design with whatever limited resources I may or may not possess? (I know that last one is a very grey area).How am I going to market my game, should I maybe seek advice from other successful candidates?If this a practice game, maybe state this in my thread when making it? (Hey, everyone starts somewhere right?)Should I perhaps implement a pre planning stage before I start making a game?I know that this barely scratches the surface, and that there are tons of people who are in lots of different environments with different levels of expertise, potential language barriers etc, but I'm only saying this with a care for the community, and so much untapped potential.Again sorry if this came off really harshly, but I feel that it really needed to be reiterated.I welcome any discussion, criticism etc you may have. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=346958#p346958 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
