Using apps to walk independently
Using apps to walk independently Hi guys,I’d like your thoughts on walking independently with an iPhone and will try to keep this as concise as possible.I’m completely blind and live in a country that does not really encourage independence. Anyway, I have a white cane and wanted to see what all the fuss regarding BlindsQuare etc. was about when I was walking with someone else.It took me a while before I got everything working, but in the end I planned a route with Google Maps. The problem was, there were no turn-by-turn instructions at all. It was all about ‘heading west in 200 meters’ and it kept mentioning locations I passed, but never actually told me what to do. It also failed to announce any intersections even though I had clearly turned that setting on. Then I tried with Apple Maps, which didn’t speak at all just now, even though I have the voice turned on.So, bottom line: Is there an app that really makes it safe and easy to walk from point A to B? My sense of direction is zero, but I was kind of hoping an app with clear turn-by-turn instructions would do the trick. It seems to work in cars, so I don’t really understand what’s going on here. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/453140/#p453140 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Using apps to walk independently
Re: Using apps to walk independently I'm not a fan of BlindSquare. It uses FourSquare for POIs, so you'll come across a bunch of POIs that don't actually exist.As you've noticed, it's also not very good when it comes to turn by turn navigation.Download an app called Nearby Explorer and give that a try. The one with offline maps is pretty expensive, but the free one works well too.Once you've downloaded it, =you may want to go into the settings menu and set the search provider to Google Places.I think you'll have a better time using Nearby Explorer. You can get turn by turn directions, as well as clock-face type directions for open areas where there are no streets. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/453149/#p453149 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Using apps to walk independently
Re: Using apps to walk independently I'm not a fan of BlindSquare. It uses FourSquare for POIs, so you'll come across a bunch of POIs that don't actually exist.As you've noticed, it's also not very good when it comes to turn by turn navigation.I'd recommend downloading the app called Nearby Explorer and giving that a try. The one with offline maps is pretty expensive, but the free one works well too.Once you've downloaded it, =you may want to go into the settings menu and set the search provider to Google Places.I think you'll have a better time using Nearby Explorer. You can get turn by turn directions, as well as clock-face type directions for open areas where there are no streets. It's definitely not a perfect app either though, but maybe you'll have better luck with it. There are a lot of cool navigation apps worth trying. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/453151/#p453151 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Using apps to walk independently
Re: Using apps to walk independently I'm not a fan of BlindSquare for the same reasons, plus the fact that it always shows fake POIs from FourSquare. It's pretty frustrating when people's houses show up as a POI.There are better navigation apps. I like Nearby Explorer, but it's pretty expensive so I can't really recommend it. I hear Loadstone recently got turn by turn directions. Has anyone used that? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/453156/#p453156 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Using apps to walk independently
Re: Using apps to walk independently I use be my eyes to navigate in metro stations and airports. However, in such places there are clear signs that show you where to go. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/453188/#p453188 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Using apps to walk independently
Re: Using apps to walk independently Try this:1. Open BlindSquare.2. Look at the "Filter" button on the main screen and customise it to know what th app should announce.3. Two elements after the "Filter" button is the radius control, which you may also wish to customise.4. Find the place you want to get directions to, and open the screen that displays information about it.5. On this screen, select "Plan a route" and then choose the GPS app you wish to use (I prefer Google Maps).6. Your GPS app should open. Choose to have walking directions. If you keep BlindSquare open in the background, you should know where you are, and your GPS app will tell you where you need to go. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/453291/#p453291 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Using apps to walk independently
Re: Using apps to walk independently Hi,I've invested a lot of time in finding an application that actually works for turn by turn guidance but so far I haven't been able to. A lot of factors vary when it comes to guidance through GPS for blind or visually impaired people. First of all, GPS accuracy should be brutally stable. Using Blind Square, I noticed that moving my hand just 3cm adjusted the accuracy of GPS by 2 to 4 meters, which is in itself totally crazy. In the case of sighted users, they can perfectly calibrate the location by just looking at the place where they're at and looking at the GPS app they use. On the other hand, we cannot obtain the same level of information through our ears or by using the white cane. Surely the cane can help significantly but it's not that you can't miss anything even if you're using it.The second factor that ruins turn-by-turn navigation is the stability of your network connection. Sometimes the network connection is lost and the GPS application you're using cannot update the location in real time and so you may be walking for some meters with "outdated" information and when the new data are retrieved, you might get confused because your application might give you incorrect info based on what you were hearing. The third factor I believe is that some cities have just been better portrayed in the Open Street Map and so in different places, you might get varied feedback on what the GPS app is said to announce. For instance, while living in Germany, Blind Square didn't announce intersections in the town where I lived but it did in other cities I went to.What I wrote here comes from my own experience andI am sure other people have had different experiences from me. Under these circumstances, I came up with astrategy which might actually help. What I do is, before going to a place, I look up the place I want to go to on Google Maps through the option "plan a route" on Blind Square. On the Google Maps app, there is an option called "steps". Steps describes the direction you need to take to go to your destination. The directions are detailed and while using Blind Square, you can use the information you got from steps to reach your destination. For instance, if you want to go to university, and you get something like: turn right on fifth street and walk for 60 meters. Turn left on University Street and walk for 300 meters. After you have got this information, you can take the above route using Blind Square. It tells you when you are entering a new street. In our case, if Blind Square says "Fifth Street", you are good to go for 70 meters as told by Steps on Google Maps. Then, Blind Square will announce University street, and you may look if there is a route to your left. At the same time, the application will tell you how far or close you're from your destination, and what is its position based on clock face. Having this information, you can use your skills to go where you want to. I found this strategy very helpful for myself.Hope this helps. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/453302/#p453302 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Using apps to walk independently
Re: Using apps to walk independently My strategy has generally been to look up directions, then only use GPS to determine what block I'm on. GPS is unreliable enough that I'd usually recommend asking 3 times. If all three are different enough that you can't get useful information out of it, keep walking until either this changes, or you can ask a human what street you're on/near.I don't generally use the Maps app, as it has generally been worse than no phone at all for walking, in my experience. Maybe the best example is the time I was in Indianapolis looking for a bus-stop. The most direct route from my hotel there was to go to the road it was on, then follow that road for a mile, and go like 20 feet around a corner. My phone sent me on a complex winding route through tiny side-streets, then the GPS got confused and thought the Freeway was the road I'd started on. Then my phone died, because it was a 2.5-year-old iPhone 4s, and apparently that meant less than an hour with Maps was too much for a full battery.Meanwhile, a "where am I?" or use of the compass have been far more helpful. Would that GPS was comparably accurate to Swamp's navigation aids. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/453320/#p453320 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Using apps to walk independently
Re: Using apps to walk independently Hi,I've invested a lot of time in finding an application that actually works for turn by turn guidance but so far I haven't been able to. A lot of factors vary when it comes to guidance through GPS for blind or visually impaired people. First of all, GPS accuracy should be brutally stable. Using Blind Square, I noticed that moving my hand just 3cm adjusted the accuracy of GPS by 2 to 4 meters, which is in itself totally crazy. In the case of sighted users, they can perfectly calibrate the location by just looking at the place where they're at and looking at the GPS app they use. On the other hand, we cannot obtain the same level of information through our ears or by using the white cane. Surely the cane can help significantly but it's not that you can't miss anything even if you're using it.The second factor that ruins turn-by-turn navigation is the stability of your network connection. Sometimes the network connection is lost and the GPS application you're using cannot update the location in real time and so you may be walking for some meters with "outdated" information and when the new data are retrieved, you might get confused because your application might give you incorrect info based on what you were hearing. The third factor I believe is that some cities have just been better portrayed in the Open Street Map and so in different places, you might get varied feedback on what the GPS app is said to announce. For instance, while living in Germany, Blind Square didn't announce intersections in the town where I lived but it did in other cities I went to.What I wrote here comes from my own experience and I am sure other people have had different experiences from mine. Under these circumstances, I came up with astrategy which might actually help. What I do is, before going to a place, I look up the place I want to go to on Google Maps through the option "plan a route" on Blind Square. On the Google Maps app, there is an option called "steps". Steps describes the direction you need to take to go to your destination. The directions are detailed and while using Blind Square, you can use the information you got from steps to reach your destination. For instance, if you want to go to university, and you get something like: turn right on fifth street and walk for 60 meters. Turn left on University Street and walk for 300 meters. After you have got this information, you can take the above route using Blind Square. It tells you when you are entering a new street. In our case, if Blind Square says "Fifth Street", you are good to go for 70 meters as told by Steps on Google Maps. Then, Blind Square will announce University street, and you may look if there is a route to your left. At the same time, the application will tell you how far or close you're from your destination, and what is its position based on clock face. Having this information, you can use your skills to go where you want to. I found this strategy very helpful for myself.Hope this helps. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/453302/#p453302 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Using apps to walk independently
Re: Using apps to walk independently The short answer is no, unfortunately. To abstract what others have said, navigational apps in their current state do not provide the level of pinpoint accuracy we need to know exactly where it is we are on a route and where we are in relation to our destination. Many blind folks also don't have a high level of spatial awareness which can make things rather difficult while traveling independently. You can get a general idea of the route, but don't expect your travels to be smooth-sailing. This is where leveraging technology and social skills comes into play. You can surely use navigational apps, but also don't be afraid to ask people (I know that might sound easier said than done, especially if you do live in an area where people aren't so quick to help). URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/453336/#p453336 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Using apps to walk independently
Re: Using apps to walk independently Thank you for all the very useful replies so far! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/453386/#p453386 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Using apps to walk independently
Re: Using apps to walk independently the problem should be solved if you use sound scape in combination with google maps and blind square, although i tried lazarilo. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/453410/#p453410 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Using apps to walk independently
Re: Using apps to walk independently the problem should be solved if you use sound scape in combination with google maps and blind square. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/453410/#p453410 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Using apps to walk independently
Re: Using apps to walk independently Hello,I used many apps: BlindSquare, Google maps, Apple maps, Ariadne GPS, Nearby Explorer Online, VioptaNav, Seeing assistant move, Blindscape, Dot Walker PRO, even checked Loadstone GPS on the old Symbian phones Actually, they have a bit different methods how they work and where they can / cannot help. Some just save your own created points and let you decide how you should find them, and others give you turn-by-turn / step-by-step instructions when and what to do. One of the best methods for myself was the Dotwalker method, when turn-by-turn instructions were coming from Google maps and added as the points list and when you reach the first point, app automatically redirects you to the next and till the end. Sadly, the developer discontinued this app for meaningful reasonds and we dont have this functionality anymore. By the way I think it was only for Android phones.Now I am developing an app that lets you to navigate around and there is simple implementation so far in alpha test mode, but I see that noone is interested in this yet. However I didnt enter to conclusions so quickly, because I am implementing Google maps turn-by-turn instructions, Trafi API to get public transport schedules and so on.Now I am on vecation / holiday in Bulgaria - Golden sands and me and my girlfriend checking this app on real conditions. I can say, that it works much better than I even expected and if you are interested, I give you some notes what can it do:You enter an address / some known name of the place, pick the transport you are traveling - public transport / transit, or by car, or perhaps you go on foot. Than app gives 1 or more route suggestions how to get to the given destination. Here you can preview the routes - check turn-by-turn directions to the place and pick the route that is most suitable to you. Then if you choose to navigate, it says where to go in such manner: go easy left for 27 meters, then turn right. Such directions might be given only when you are walking, because then app gets your coordinates and decides in which direction you are going. If app does not know your moving direction, it says something like Go east for 21 m. Then turn slight left at chocolate street. When you move, it fixes direction by saying go straight or go easy left or whatever.I implemented compass as well, so you can spin your phone around and it says in which side your next direction is. I mean it says hard right - that means it is on your right behind you. Then you spin a bit to the right and it automatically speaks - right. Then you spin a bit towards right and it says easy right. Than you spin again and sound plays, phone vibrates to indicate, that point is in front of you. That is how you can find correct direction where to go. Then you just follow the instructions that app gives to You. However there is a slight problem that this app is not a regular app that you are use to know, it is just like a website, with extended functionality - Location, TTS support and so on. Since there are some inconsistancies among browsers, Compass does not work well with IOS devices. It works well on Android. But I almost found a way to fix such a problem by creating function that I called Automatic direction corrections. It constantly follows your movement and calculates direction towards the next point and if your direction changes acording to formula, it anounces that for instance by saying go left for 100 m. if you turn left and move ahead a bit, it says go straight for 95 m. I guess this should solve the Compass problem. You can always turn this feature on or off.App even says when to get off the public transport at the right bus stop if you picked prefered route by public transport. I mean it gives turn by turn steps how to reach the bus stop, which bus is prefered, says how many stops to go and when you are in the public transport, it detects that automatically as wel. And then only informs the distance toward the bus stop you need to get off. I made an algorithm to detect when you are in vehicle by measuring your moving speed.If your city supports Trafi, it can give you meaningful information about the stops: transport that goes in the stop, schedules, also the real-time upcoming transport indicated by GPS or just a schedule time and app says if info goes through GPS or not.If you are interested, I come back next week and could make a podcast about my newest achievements.By the way sorry for mistyping or something, because I wrote this message with my phone. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/454419/#p454419 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
