Re: What Makes a Game a Clone
2019-11-23
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : manamon_player via Audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone 80% thumbs up at post two URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/479366/#p479366 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone
2019-11-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Vazbol via Audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone Isn't there a saying in literature that goes something like: Good authors create things. Great authors steal things. though to include one more thing from mainstream games, can we also add Asset Flip into the mix. Asset Flips: Making a game entirely from provided resources or open sources with little to no modification. Generally if you're working with an open source project or resource pool, you generally have to put in your own work into creating something new, using these resources to fill in for sections to save time. Asset flips just has someone making an entire game with just provided resources, and even example source codes or open source codes and claiming it's theirs. So if someone grabbed an open source game, barely did anything to it, and reposted it as their own, that's an asset flip. If someone grabbed something not open source, barely did anything to it, and posted it as their own, that's a lawsuit ready to happen. both equally crappy. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/477929/#p477929 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone @10, I don't see how most of your points have anything to do with the discussion at hand but I see the remaining arguments. (Also, you can't patent or copyright a word, just as you can't patent or copyright an idea.) URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/477809/#p477809 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone
2019-11-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : crashmaster via Audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone To be honest, the word clone has become quite bad.However we are using a clone right now.Every computer stemmed from the first ibm pc machine.Ibm/lenovo made the first computers back in the early 1980s maybe even earlier.People copy concepts all the time, look at all those remixes, those are sort of clones.Look at all the bopit and other games, clones of eachother using the same concepts roughly but different.Crazyparty, manamon, shades of doom, all clones.Directly coppying someone's code or sounds and calling it your own, is a rippoff, or an unauthorised clone and is quite bad.Coppying the idea unless its patented in some way though is probably ok, sometimes you need to ask first but a lot of stuff is based off of something else.In my deffinition in this case, a clone here in the sence of tk, ultrapower, etc which is what this is probably about, is the coppying of code the origional may have been stolen or gotten by extra legal means a game, same with sounds, etc, calling it your own even when the origional developer asked it to be stopped so an unauthorised clone.This is like the word hacker.In the olden days, hacker was just the word for a computer whizz of some sort.There are still hackers about, some good and some bad.But the word hacker now is almost someone bad, trying to get in to your computer for their own purposes.The word clone is bad now because others have used the word for their own means.A spin off is what a good clone is now but its basically a clone.Just about everyone spins off, look at tv series, music, and linux distributions.Its good this topic has come up though.I have never thought a clone in general is bad.I could say get shades of doom, make a game based on it, using the same concepts, using different sounds and music, give it a different name or a similar name, and call it my own.It would be a clone but it would be fine.Saying that if my name was to similar, ie if david greenwood had patented the phraze doom or shades of doom or shades of then I could be in trouble for using the same name.Microsoft doesn't like anyone using the word windows because they have protected that word name though in some cases it can be a bit silly.Ie, if you open a window or talk abut installing the windows in your house you are not expected to pay microsoft for using the word in general conversation but in some aspects that could get that way to.As a former software pirate myself I appreciate both sides of the coin.I have issues with software which is to high priced, or well has a stupid reason to register it.Its why I no longer use microsoft office legal or otherwize, winzip is another thing I no longer use.There are other examples, nero burning rom is another.Now its not like the industry hasn't tried to cater to those who want their content anywhere and everywhere though its taken 5 or so years before they even conciddered it, for example netflicks however point is, there are a lot more ways to well do what you want.Cloning as a word is not bad thing and cloning as an idea is not generally bad unless you don't do it right or do it in a bad way, ie stealing things and not asking first for those that ask.You could take the idea, use it and say its a clone or spin off of another.Manamon is a clone of pokomon, but its the idea, it uses different names, different places, etc and is different enough to pass as its own though it is a clone of a concept.Crazyparty is another clone, then again its like those console and arcade games and a lot of those have been coppied all over the show.It would be different enough to be its own to.It also depends on who is cloning what to. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/477798/#p477798 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone Fully agree with OP and @2 URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/477795/#p477795 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone
2019-11-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : TheTrueSwampGamer via Audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone here is what i've noticed. A cloan is just something that is like something else. For example, everyone said tk was a redspot cloan especially at the beginning because it was a 3d fps, with items you pick up, and number row weapons, that sort of thing. They had same keys, but they were right for a while so, yes. I was curious too. I'm ok, but when someone changes something, and i call that a cloan. Change a few lines of code of a game and release it as your own and something totally different. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/477764/#p477764 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone
2019-11-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : electro via Audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone Wow what a topic I was reading since I was pissed with cloned things and I only need original versions of that?I agree with @1, @2 and @5. We need linguistic deviation into those words that we tyme for that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/477761/#p477761 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone
2019-11-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : defender via Audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone @mongoo_4044When I say children, I am considering anyone under about the age of 16 a child. That is likely 90% of the people doing this.Most common is between 11 and 15 fromw hat I've seen.If you have proof that says otherwise, let me know, but I won't just take you on your word.You are focusing on the wrong part of what I said anyway, probably because you think that I believe all kids are bad just because of a few jerks, but that isn't true.I know most kids are just playing games and not even posting or coding yet, and I respect the ones who are at least smart enough to keep their little code experiments private and not pretend they are a big new game for popularity points.Either way, most kids aren't particularly mature for their age, that's why it's special one someone is. That's fine, almost everyone including me was like that once. Hell I was super annoying as a kid... I just don't want it fucking up the community I care about that's all. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/477688/#p477688 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone
2019-11-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : defender via Audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone @mongoo_4044When I say children, I am considering anyone under about the age of 16 a child. That is likely 90% of the people doing this.Most common is between 11 and 15 fromw hat I've seen.If you have proof that says otherwise, let me know, but I won't just take you on your word. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/477688/#p477688 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone I've moved away from the word "clone" for the most part, and prefer further linguistic delineation.Manamon is a pokemon ripoff or spinoff, because it borrows very, very heavily from this source. I don't think there's any denying this.Crazy Party is basically like a Mario Party ripoff with a deck-fighting component loosely based on pokemon, with hundreds of illegal sounds. This calls its legality into question, but the ideas are at least semi-original.The Killer is basically an unauthorized fork because it really shouldn't exist, which is why there's a ban on it here.The user who was advertising Zombie War wasn't necessarily punished because their game is an unauthorized fork. He was banned because he is clearly a user who has been banned with good reason before, trying to come back in order to spread info about his new (or not new) game. A game which, I might add, he didn't even change the license info in (didn't someone say it was still claiming it was by Soundworks or something?). That's just pure laziness, and deserves whatever it gets. Looks like the game is a mess, anyway, so there's that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/477668/#p477668 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone
2019-11-17
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : mongoo_4044 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone at 2why children? there are menny peeples who create clones besides childrens URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/477636/#p477636 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone @1-2, fully agree. This is what I define various terms as, and this is how they should be used:Clone: An exact duplicate of another product; synonymous with plagiarism in writing. (Side note: if memory serves, cloning something in this manner and claiming it as yours is a criminal offense in at least the US.)Rip-off, copy: a project that uses an idea or concept, whether borrowed, stolen, or acquired by other means, but alters/extends that idea or concept in some manner that makes it unlike the original idea or concept.Unauthorized fork: the illegal acquisition and modification of source, object, or binary code, which may or may not then be published to the global internet, with ownership or authorship claims altered in such a way that the product appears to be from someone else; said product does, however, exhibit behavior that is frighteningly, or exactly the same as, the original program that the code was illegally acquired from in certain areas. Products which are claimed as "unauthorized forks" must have evidence to prove that it is, indeed, an unauthorized fork.I hope these definitions make sense. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/477628/#p477628 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone
2019-11-17
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : defender via Audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone Yep, it pisses me off too. I know people use clone because it's short and convenient, and it enrages the people doing it which is fun, but I feel like copycat or ripoff would be better.A clone is an exact copy with no changes at all, and that is almost never the truth when people call something a clone.They even say it before trying it the game now, just because it's similar to other games in the description.I understand the skepticism with certain users posting new games, but if they do decide to stop doing this crap, it won't help when the first actual game they put out gets shouted down by the community before even getting a chance.To me, a clone is when you take a complete TK or ultrapower server for instance, put it up with no changes, then call it yours. And the same would be the case for an open source game like Zombie Arena, as long as their was no change, and especially if you removed any mention of the true author.This is annoying and a waste of time, but not actually that big of a deal. It's easily ignored and mostly it's kids who fall for it anyway.It becomes an issue when the children running the server start charging money or taking donations, since unfortunately there is no way to tell if it's going only to paying for the server costs or going directly into their pockets.It also further stifles true innovation in a community which already struggles with being stuck in the past, and creates drama, rivalries, and a breeding ground for assholes if it's online, all things which hurt our already fragile community.A ripoff or copycat, in my opinion, is a game that does any of these things.Uses mainly sourcecode from the original while making few meaningful changes, slaps some new sounds (many likely from other games) over top like a fresh coat of paint, and then calls it a brand new super spectacular title from we'renotactuallyacompany studios productions group.Usually these will at least mention the original author somewhere, but people get pissed because they A. Promise way too much and can't deliver, B. The devs usually get super defensive if you give any criticism no matter how nicely and that causes stupid drama, C. They could have used that time to actually start learning how to code the proper way by beginning with small practice games, and D. It sure as hell doesn't belong in new releases.Anything else, in my opinion, is fair game and should be judged on it's own merit, but if it's trying to do something (like replace redspot) and failing horribly, or if it just isn't big enough or complete enough to be called a new release, than people should expect the community to have problems with it.Which obviously means that the community shouldn't mob them, either... And definitely not call something that isn't a clone, a clone. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/477608/#p477608 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone
2019-11-17
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : defender via Audiogames-reflector
Re: What Makes a Game a Clone Yep, it pisses me off too. I know people use clone because it's short and convenient, and it enrages the people doing it which is fun, but I feel like copycat or ripoff would be better.A clone is an exact copy with no changes at all, and that is almost never the truth when people call something a clone.They even say it before trying it the game now, just because it's similar to other games in the description.I understand the skepticism with certain users posting new games, but if they do decide to stop doing this crap, it won't help when the first actual game they put out gets shouted down by the community before even getting a chance.To me, a clone is when you take a complete TK or ultrapower server for instance, put it up with no changes, then call it yours. And the same would be the case for an open source game like Zombie Arena, as long as their was no change, and especially if you removed any mention of the true author.This is annoying and a waste of time, but not actually that big of a deal. It's easily ignored and mostly it's kids who fall for it anyway.It becomes an issue when the children running the server start charging money or taking donations, since unfortunately there is no way to tell if it's going only to paying for the server costs or going directly into their pockets.A ripoff or copycat, in my opinion, is a game that does any of these things.Uses mainly sourcecode from the original while making few meaningful changes, slaps some new sounds (many likely from other games) over top like a fresh coat of paint, and then calls it a brand new super spectacular title from we'renotactuallyacompany studios productions group.Usually these will at least mention the original author somewhere, but people get pissed because they A. Promise way too much and can't deliver, B. The devs usually get super defensive if you give any criticism no matter how nicely and that causes stupid drama, C. They could have used that time to actually start learning how to code the proper way by beginning with small practice games, and D. It sure as hell doesn't belong in new releases.Anything else, in my opinion, is fair game and should be judged on it's own merit, but if it's trying to do something (like replace redspot) and failing horribly, or if it just isn't big enough or complete enough to be called a new release, than people should expect the community to have problems with it.Which obviously means that the community shouldn't mob them, either... And definitely not call something that isn't a clone, a clone. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/477608/#p477608 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
What Makes a Game a Clone
2019-11-17
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Dan_Gero via Audiogames-reflector
What Makes a Game a Clone Hi.Lately, I've been seeing people shouting this game is a clone left and right, and it's made me wonder what people define as a clone. I'm going to start this off by going into my opinion in great depth, so if you don't care for my opinions feel free to skip past my post.Personally, I think a clone is sort of like a rip-off. A rip-off steals concepts from a game, but it doesn't copy said game point for point. For example, Manamon is a rip-off of Pokémon. It's a game where you catch creatures, train them up, and use them to fight other creatures. The project name, item names, and story are all different, (even if very loosely different), but its core concept is the exact same as Pokémon. Granted, this isn't to say Manamon is a bad game; I happen to really like the game and have played it for hours before. Just because a game is a rip-off of another game doesn't mean it's bad.A clone is pretty much a direct copy of a game. The story elements and game-play mechanics are exactly the same. I can’t say I’ve seen anything like that in the Audio Gaming Community if I’m being honest, and if I have I can't think of an example off the top of my head right now. Like rip-offs, clones aren’t necessarily a bad thing. If a regular user decides to remake a game for another platform with developer permission, that’s perfectly fine.Rip-offs and clones are very different from modified source code. These are games that are made using the source of an already existing game. The Killer is a very good example of this. Again, this isn’t necessarily a bad thing.So, what makes clones or modified-sourced games a bad thing? The more obvious answer is if you don’t have permission to use that games exact concept or source, but of course there’s a lot more to that. What if the developer released the source code to a game with the intent of allowing people to do with it what they please, but then changed their mind at a much later date and took it down? I am of course referring to Zombie Arena and Zombie War when I pose this question. Yes, I am referring to this topic that was just closed, in fact this was the topic that inspired me to write this one. When people used the source code for Ultra Power, that was wrong, because Mason did not give the public permission to use that code. Ultra-Power was always intended to be a closed-sourced game. However, Zombie War was not. Mason intentionally released the code for people to do with as they pleased. You can’t just come in and say I changed my mind on a decision like that. You made the bed; you lie in it. Someone could argue the same for Ultra Power, and while I do think the way Mason handled that whole situation was less than desirable, that doesn’t change the fact that people weren’t supposed to own that source code. All bets are off the second you declare your source code opened to the public.Now this is not to say that I think the banning of storm_crate was unjustified, because it wasn’t. Making alternate accounts in an attempt to skirt a ban is a clear violation of the rules on this forum, so he had it coming from the get-go. However, that game he released - and I do use that term loosely - was not in violation of the rules, because Mason declared it open-sourced.Please keep in mind that I’m not saying all this in an attempt to fight the mods; I respect the dedication the team has with trying to keep this forum in tiptop shape. I’m simply trying to state my opinion on this matter. In addition, I feel the discussion of what is and isn’t a clone needs to take place, because senselessly shouting out “OMG OMG clone game clone game close delete ban!” is not fixing or accomplishing anything, besides annoying other forumites around them and possibly chasing away mainstream developers because of all the inn-fighting going on.With all this out of the way, I shall hand the rains over to the rest of you guys to discuss; although I will be chiming in of course. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/477572/#p477572 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
What Makes a Game a Clone
2019-11-17
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : Dan_Gero via Audiogames-reflector
What Makes a Game a Clone Hi.Lately, I've been seeing people shouting this game is a clone left and right, and it's made me wonder what people define as a clone. I'm going to start this off by going into my opinion in great depth, so if you don't care for my opinions feel free to skip past my post.Personally, I think a clone is sort of like a rip-off. A rip-off steals concepts from a game, but it doesn't copy said game point for point. For example, Manamon is a rip-off of Pokémon. It's a game where you catch creatures, train them up, and use them to fight other creatures. The project name, item names, and story are all different, (even if very loosely different), but its core concept is the exact same as Pokémon. Granted, this isn't to say Manamon is a bad game; I happen to really like the game and have played it for hours before. Just because a game is a rip-off of another game doesn't mean it's bad.A clone is pretty much a direct copy of a game. The story elements and game-play mechanics are exactly the same. I can’t say I’ve seen anything like that in the Audio Gaming Community if I’m being honest, and if I have I can't think of an example off the top of my head right now. Like rip-offs, clones aren’t necessarily a bad thing. If a regular user decides to remake a game for another platform with developer permission, that’s perfectly fine.Rip-offs and clones are very different from modified source code. These are games that are made using the source of an already existing game. The Killer is a very good example of this. Again, this isn’t necessarily a bad thing.So, what makes clones or modified-sourced games a bad thing? The more obvious answer is if you don’t have permission to use that games exact concept or source, but of course there’s a lot more to that. What if the developer released the source code to a game with the intent of allowing people to do with it what they please, but then changed their mind at a much later date and took it down? I am of course referring to Zombie Arena and Zombie War when I pose this question. Yes, I am refering to this topic that was just closed, in fact this was the topic that inspired me to write this one. When people used the source code for Ultra Power, that was wrong, because Mason did not give the public permission to use that code. Ultra-Power was always intended to be a closed-sourced game. However, Zombie War was not. Mason intentionally released the code for people to do with as they pleased. You can’t just come in and say I changed my mind on a decision like that. You made the bed; you lie in it. Someone could argue the same for Ultra Power, and while I do think the way Mason handled that whole situation was less than desirable, that doesn’t change the fact that people weren’t supposed to own that source code. All bets are off the second you declare your source code opened to the public.Now this is not to say that I think the banning of storm_crate was unjustified, because it wasn’t. Making alternate accounts in an attempt to skirt a ban is a clear violation of the rules on this forum, so he had it coming from the get-go. However, that game he released - and I do use that term loosely - was not in violation of the rules, because Mason declared it open-sourced.Please keep in mind that I’m not saying all this in an attempt to fight the mods; I respect the dedication the team has with trying to keep this forum in tiptop shape. I’m simply trying to state my opinion on this matter. In addition, I feel the discussion of what is and isn’t a clone needs to take place, because senselessly shouting out “OMG OMG clone game clone game close delete ban!” is not fixing or accomplishing anything, besides annoying other forumites around them and possibly chasing away mainstream developers because of all the inn-fighting going on.With all this out of the way, I shall hand the rains over to the rest of you guys to discuss; although I will be chiming in of course. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/477572/#p477572 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
