Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
I don't personally worry about 1% distortion @ < -80dB in a DAC which is hidden by 10%+ distortion in speakers at higher levels :-) When discussing the concept of "good enough" you have to consider the entire chain. That chain can be very long. I like music, not equipment. The recording of that music is what it is - or perhaps I should say I am stuck with the way it was recorded (often decades ago). Much of the chain used to record it has already added much greater compromises to the sound quality than the CD mastering process. I'm not saying that is an excuse for not worrying about the replay chain - merely that ultimately the results will be limited by the source in many cases. Personally I think the big breakthrough we need is to find a way for us to stop listening to the equipment and the "recording" and to start listening to the music instead - this is what your wife is doing. Clearly this is not a function of the equipment or the music - it is a function of our brains. So, in my opinion, the engineering problems have been essentially solved, but we have a whole bunch of psychological issues to look into... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
Wombat;629075 Wrote: > Think about the sample i linked to again. What missing information you > expect in a 24bit recording? There isn´t any in most of the 24bit > stuff. The noise is that high in many of them you don´t even have to > add dither when going to 16bit. Like this Linn sample. Bits 17-24 are > noise, so just truncate it. > And imagine you have a recording that has info down there the chances > that it is masked by music information that plays at normal level is > pretty high. > Humans can´t switch off that masking, even when they talk as if they > hear things it down there in relation :) I honestly don't know why you would expect anything but white noise if you just play the least significant bits and strip off the MSBs. There is a pretty good explanation in the thread you linked, down a few posts. To me the demonstration was meaningless. -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Duet plus Beresford DAC or Touch, better sound?
Gazjam;628958 Wrote: > Hi, > I run my Gator/Caiman with my Touch as well, and have done mods to my > Dac too. > Murata regualtors, > Linear PSU, > Elna Slimic caps fitted.. > > Can you tell me about yours? > "some inductor filtering" > "film cap bypass of ac coupling caps" (Is this different from the > Passive Mod, done on the original (non Gator) opamp board? > > thanks. Hi. 1. Between the incoming power and the +5V reg input leg, there's a resistor, presumably for some voltage dropoff from +15V, so there's less dissipation on the 7805? Since I use a Murata, and I wanted to keep noise on incoming power from the Murata and vice versa, I replaced it with an inductor (several xx mH range, something like 0.3A). Seemed to help take some of the edge off the top end without sacrificing detail. 2. I am still using the Gator. The non-polar caps on the Gator board were bypassed by spare film caps (Auricaps and whatever else spare I had lying around). Some opening up of the midrange, and as expected with the Auricaps, opened up further over weeks. -- mervin_b mervin_b's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42376 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87414 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
TerryS;629073 Wrote: > As for me, I am skeptical that Redbook CD is as good as things need to > be. The loss of resolution at low levels means the distortion must > rise to above 1% for levels only about 55 dB below full scale. > Dithering might improve that by 6 dB or so, but I don't see how (on a > music signal). Think about the sample i linked to again. What missing information you expect in a 24bit recording? There isn´t any in most of the 24bit stuff. The noise is that high in many of them you don´t even have to add dither when going to 16bit. Like this Linn sample. Bits 17-24 are noise, so just truncate it. And imagine you have a recording that has info down there the chances that it is masked by music information that plays at normal level is pretty high. Humans can´t switch off that masking, even when they talk as if they hear things it down there in relation :) -- Wombat Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
I'd still be interested in seeing how it compares to some of the other tweaks, like the cable supports and the mains cables that the report the OP linked talked about. They clearly showed a difference in the measurements, and I personally am very skeptical that anyone can hear the difference. But I am willing to accept that just because I cannot, or you cannot, or a group of 100 randomly selected people in a study cannot, does not mean that someone that has dedicated a huge amount of time and money perfecting their system and their hearing (perception)can't hear the difference. I know my wife says she can't hear the difference between my rather nice (in my opinion) system and a cheap piece of Walmart junk. Does that mean I can't hear the difference just because she can't? I'm pretty sure I do. That's why I say that I avoid discussing what level of perfection is "good enough" and what level "can't possibly be heard by anyone". I suspect it is a little too subjective. But if measurements (like the one described or an even better version of it)can show some insight into the performance of audio gear that the standard sine-wave based THD and IMD measurements seem incapable of showing, then I am all for it. As for me, I am skeptical that Redbook CD is as good as things need to be. The loss of resolution at low levels means the distortion must rise to above 1% for levels only about 55 dB below full scale. Dithering might improve that by 6 dB or so, but I don't see how (on a music signal). Again, I don't think I can talk about the audibility of this, but it sure doesn't seem sufficient to me. Unfortunately, the measurement techniques commonly employed today will never show the pitfall. Dithering works quite well on a sine wave. So I welcome wider acceptance of some improved measurement techniques. The tools we have been using for the past 60 or more years aren't telling the full story (in my opinion). It would certainly be interesting if there was actually some truth behind some of these assertions that cable supports and mains cables make audible differences. Id be very surprised. But I acknowledge how much more sensitive the human ear is than the best equipment I have in my lab. Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Garage Conversion - Sound advice ?
Well I'm going for Dali Mentor Menuets impressive sound from a small box, can be wall mouted or stand mounted £799 with brackets! Electrician has been round and garage already has a ring mains in here so fused spur going to the new sockets for hi-fi equipment. Work commences Monday 9th May yippeee -- tank121 tank121's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17169 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=85319 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Demagnetization
jjzolx;629030 Wrote: > what's with the constant trolls? > > Use google if you really want an answer. Otherwise, go to hell. -- ghostrider ghostrider's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18959 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87458 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
TerryS;629028 Wrote: > I guess as a starting point, I'd like to see someone take a good analog > source and then digitize it at 16 bit/ 44 kHz and burn it onto CD with > the redbook format and the processing that would be used, and compare > that back to the original. > I'm just curious how much is lost in the process. For instance I've > always been curious how much dithering really helps on music as opposed > to sine waves. And how good is the redbook CD format capable of being > (on music, not on sine waves). > But in general, I'm just glad to see methods like this being applied > instead of the reliance we have had for the past way too many years on > purely sine-wave based characterization of audio equipment. > > Terry I'm not sure that would tell you very much. Very little is lost - I've ripped hundreds of vinyl albums at 16/44.1 and they all sounded fine - indistinguishable from the source. It isn't about the numbers - it's about things like jitter and how linear and how noisy the ADC's are. As for dithering... it's in the bottom half a bit. At 16 bit it's a struggle to hear it (assuming levels are being managed properly). At 24-bit it simply is neither here nor there. Bottom line: Redbook is perfectly capable of sounding fantastic - and this is easily tested by taking a 24/96 file down to 16/44.1 - there's no reliable scientific evidence that anyone can hear the difference in a properly conducted blind test. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
TerryS;629028 Wrote: > I guess as a starting point, I'd like to see someone take a good analog > source and then digitize it at 16 bit/ 44 kHz and burn it onto CD with > the redbook format and the processing that would be used, and compare > that back to the original. > Better don´t use that method for evaluating what is lost from 24bit to 16bit. You will have real problems finding ANY music that has other things like noise in bits 17-24 :) Even if there is no pure noise it most likely has no relation to the music... A funny example: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=86738&hl=2bdecided I wonder how many audiophiles worldwide heard this better Macrodynamics with this Linn piece... I don´t know a clean method to remove the upper 16bit like 2bdecided did with that sample in Mathlab. It isn´t simply a volume up-down thing in an editor. -- Wombat Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Demagnetization
What's with the constant trolls? Use Google if you really want an answer. Otherwise, go to hell. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87458 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
Phil Leigh;629014 Wrote: > Terry - I'm not sure where you mean - it's a long chain from sound booth > to the CD in your hand! The losses start with the microphones (for > acoustic sounds). > > The most damage (these days) seems to happen in the mastering suite, > when the brickwall limiters get wound up. > > In the domestic chain it is the speakers that are most (>80% IME) > responsible for what we hear being different to what is "intended" by > the PCM on the CD... followed by the DAC. I guess as a starting point, I'd like to see someone take a good analog source and then digitize it at 16 bit/ 44 kHz and burn it onto CD with the redbook format and the processing that would be used, and compare that back to the original. I'm just curious how much is lost in the process. For instance I've always been curious how much dithering really helps on music as opposed to sine waves. And how good is the redbook CD format capable of being (on music, not on siine waves). But in general, I'm just glad to see methods like this being applied instead of the reliance we have had for the past way too many years on purely sine-wave based characterization of audio equipment. Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Demagnetization
What exactly does a demagnetization track on the Test & Burn-in CD do? -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87458 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
TerryS;629005 Wrote: > Phil, > I've been following some of your discussions about using ADM. Pretty > interesting stuff. Like I said, I'd like to see this approach become > much more commonly used (in addition to sine wave based testing). But > I'm actually curious about things earlier in the chain. How much is > lost in the redbook CD record process? > > Terry Terry - I'm not sure where you mean - it's a long chain from sound booth to the CD in your hand! The losses start with the microphones (for acoustic sounds). The most damage (these days) seems to happen in the mastering suite, when the brickwall limiters get wound up. In the domestic chain it is the speakers that are most (>80% IME) responsible for what we hear being different to what is "intended" by the PCM on the CD... followed by the DAC. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
Phil Leigh;629000 Wrote: > I've been doing this for 2 years now... > > You can do it yourself using ADM - just record the analogue output from > DAC or Pre-amp using a good soundcard and compare with the original WAV > PCM file on CD. This will give you a "measure" of how big a difference > there is between the content of the CD and the early parts of the > playback chain. > > Of course, more accurate doesn't necessarily translate to more > preferable :-) Phil, I've been following some of your discussions about using ADM. Pretty interesting stuff. Like I said, I'd like to see this approach become much more commonly used (in addition to sine wave based testing). But I'm actually curious about things earlier in the chain. How much is lost in the redbook CD record process? Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
TerryS;628996 Wrote: > > I would love to see this expanded to a step earlier in the process. > They take the CD file as the starting point and apply the techniques to > the player and amplifier used for playback. I'd love to see the raw > audio (analog) digitized by the measurement ADCs, then compare that to > the result after subjecting it to the process that makes it a redbook > CD, which is then played back. How close does this get to the > original? > > Terry I've been doing this for 2 years now... You can do it yourself using ADM - just record the analogue output from DAC or Pre-amp using a good soundcard and compare with the original WAV PCM file on CD. This will give you a "measure" of how big a difference there is between the content of the CD and the early parts of the playback chain. Of course, more accurate doesn't necessarily translate to more preferable :-) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For the objectivist/empiricists in the crowd
I find this work very interesting. For a long time I have believed that the present metods for measuring audio performance were very lacking. They are all based on sine wave steady state measurements. This worked well enough for showing harmonic distortion products and was very useful in advancing audio design. But music is not sine waves. It is not repetative. There is no method I know of that adequately measures the true performance of a system's performance to music. The introduction of TIM and other intermodulation distortion measurement techniques was a huge step in the right direction, but still rely on steady state sine wave stimulus. I hope this type of measurement technique continues to improve and become more widely used. If the alorithm is improved to adequately seperate time errors and amplitude errors, I think it might improve our understanding of audio design significantly. I don't want to imply that just because this work shows differences when using cable supports or "better" mains cables, that I would run out and snap up all of the products, but I definitely find the results interesting and look forward to more reports like this. Of course this does nothing to address what is "audible". This is a much more subjective question, and each person wll have to decide this on his/her own. But improving the methods we use to measure the performance of audio equipment is a very good thing in my opinion. How you accept (or not) the information is up to you. But for me, I prefer to have all of the information, and sort it out as I see fit. I would love to see this expanded to a step earlier in the process. They take the CD file as the starting point and apply the techniques to the player and amplifier used for playback. I'd love to see the raw audio (analog) digitized by the measurement ADCs, then compare that to the result after subjecting it to the process that makes it a redbook CD, which is then played back. How close does this get to the original? Terry -- TerryS TerryS's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=40835 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87175 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] S/PDIF cables should be (a) - >=1.5m or (b) as short as possible?
Hi just to note I am using basic (certainly not exotic) quality coaxial to stream digital output over 3 rooms via the loft for the past 5 years; probably around 50m with negligible deficit. why not stream over squeezebox? Well SB doesn't accept digital input eg from a cd player. The old sonos boxes did this. So i stream from the PC wirelessly but from sky, CD, sacd etc via spdif. Sound even copes with a splitter/router box. -- ajmitchell http://www.last.fm/user/ajmitchell ajmitchell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=800 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84751 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The ultimate tweak
magiccarpetride;628984 Wrote: > This forum yet again lives up to its infamous reputation. yes :) if you cant beat them... -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: SB3 + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad 64gB wifi +3g with iPengHD & SqueezePad Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87444 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The ultimate tweak
Curt962;628949 Wrote: > Perhaps, but if the fish believe said power cord is being used, what > assurance do we have that the A/B results are valid? Perhaps a brief > review of the well documented studies in Psychoaquatics, and the > suggestibility of fish is in order. > > While I clearly heard staggering, and literally paradigm shifting > improvements in my setup, it will ultimately depend on the resolving > capabilities of one's aquarium. This forum yet again lives up to its infamous reputation. -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87444 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Duet plus Beresford DAC or Touch, better sound?
mervin_b;628950 Wrote: > I have two Touch(es), both of which feed spdif into dacs. After initial > testing of the first unit's analogue output, I connected a Channel > Islands VDA-1 (highly modded power supplies, swapped opamp, etc). > There's not turning back -- the improvement was significant. > > The second Touch was also first tested via analogue output, and I was a > little disappointed by the sound (rather flat, uninvolving). For this > unit, I connect a Caiman+ dac with Gator card. Again, the improvement > was substantial. Over two months I've modded the Caiman (on-board > supply caps, some inductor filtering, film cap bypass of ac coupling > caps), and the improvements were as large as from Touch to Caiman. > YMMV. Hi, I run my Gator/Caiman with my Touch as well, and have done mods to my Dac too. Murata regualtors, Linear PSU, Elna Slimic caps fitted.. Can you tell me about yours? "some inductor filtering" "film cap bypass of ac coupling caps" (Is this different from the Passive Mod, done on the original (non Gator) opamp board? thanks. -- Gazjam Gazjam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87414 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Duet plus Beresford DAC or Touch, better sound?
Thanks so much for you thoughts on this matter. At the moment it seems to me that the Touch and maybe later a DAC is the best option for me. -- Squeezemenicely Squeezebox Server 7.5.3 on Synology DS-410j NAS Squeezebox Receiver Squeezebox Boom Squeezemenicely's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41812 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87414 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Duet plus Beresford DAC or Touch, better sound?
I have two Touch(es), both of which feed spdif into dacs. After initial testing of the first unit's analogue output, I connected a Channel Islands VDA-1 (highly modded power supplies, swapped opamp, etc). There's not turning back -- the improvement was significant. The second Touch was also first tested via analogue output, and I was a little disappointed by the sound (rather flat, uninvolving). For this unit, I connect a Caiman+ dac with Gator card. Again, the improvement was substantial. Over two months I've modded the Caiman (on-board supply caps, some inductor filtering, film cap bypass of ac coupling caps), and the improvements were as large as from Touch to Caiman. YMMV. -- mervin_b mervin_b's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42376 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87414 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The ultimate tweak
Mnyb;628889 Wrote: > You can abx this put a similar shool of fish in tank A and tank B keep > them unaware of wich tank has JPS powercables or similar, then just > measure and weigth the fishes regurarly and judge their colors ;) > Edit: to avoid experimenter bias you should also be unaware of wich > tank that has supercables, let some one else plug them in and hide the > cables Perhaps, but if the fish believe said power cord is being used, what assurance do we have that the A/B results are valid? Perhaps a brief review of the well documented studies in Psychoaquatics, and the suggestibility of fish is in order. -- Curt962 Transporter...TouchBoom.. Curt962's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31949 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87444 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Duet plus Beresford DAC or Touch, better sound?
Mnyb;628897 Wrote: > ...and the controller has been bypassed by IOS or Andriod devices . While I agree the Touch is easily the better player, I find I much prefer the [Duet's] Controller to my Android phone. Perhaps it is just habit since I had the Controller for a year or two before I tried the phone alternative, but it is just easier. I had intended to use the phone as I was going to sell the Controller and pocket the change. However, after several weeks of trying to like Squeeze Commander, I gave up and now use only the Controller. (I rarely select music directly from the Touch.) As they say, YMMV. -- mlsstl mlsstl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87414 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] The ultimate tweak
Soulkeeper;628856 Wrote: > Only $968.97 for the CAT5? That's quite a bargain. Unfortunately I'm > running wireless, so it's not for me. But I think you may be right > about the air molecules; I have a 200 gallon fish tank between the > router and the SB, and I know that humidity has a dampening effect on > electromagnetic waves in the 2.4 GHz range. Since bass sound has the > lowest energy (in relation to amplitude) that's where the dampening > effects from water molecule polarization are likely most noticable. > Probably explains why the sound got so muffled after I moved the > speakers under the couch (which I had to do, as there was little room > left for speakers after I filled up my living room with fish tanks). > I'll do some hair dryer experiments in the fish tank tomorrow. I can't > wait to hear the synergy effect of rewound CDs and dried fish. > > But if it wasn't for the desirability of WiFi's ground isolation, I'd > definitely have gone for that CAT5 cable instead. That's all well and good but come on how do you expect us to be able to offer any realistic suggestions on how to mitigate these very serious issues adversely affecting the sound if we don't even know whether or not you have salt or fresh water fish tanks? On a related note: why can't we get a BS emoticon? It would save vast amounts of unnecessary typing. -- ralphpnj Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels -> Snatch -> The Transporter -> Transporter 2 (oops) -> Touch 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87444 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
