Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Oh-oh, the ethernet/USB cable dispute all over again ...
Hi there. I'm running USB filters since a long time. There's nothing esoteric about them. It's simple physics. These devices just filter the noise on pretty noisy USB data, power and ground leads. These effects can easily be measured. How much it impacts the DAC soundquality/soundexperience is a different question. ifi claims 5db noise reduction with the purifier. ( http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipurifier/ ) Filters can have different effects in different setups (DACs/PCs) though. They can work as supposed, they can be neutral, they even can make things worse (overdampening). I strongly recommend to try these devices. The AQ comes in at quite a low pricetag compared to its competition. Closest I'm aware of is the iPurifier @99$. If it doesn't work, just send it back. Enjoy. ::: ' Touch Toolbox and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102632 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest Jitterbug (Let's comment on this.....)
In the Case of the Dragonfly wonder what's really going on that DAC a is actually driven from the 5v at the USB port ? Or with other DAC's driven from the USB be port ? In a general case a normal DAC a would only be feed by the USB signal . What gives then ? I tend to think application specific some things works in some cases and do nothing in other cases . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102875 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] What outboard DAC do you use with Squeezebox?
Running my Transporter into a modded M2Tech Young with linear power supply. A step up from the TPs internal Dac, which is great but a little flat dynamically imo. Gazjam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=72018 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Oh-oh, the ethernet/USB cable dispute all over again ...
Julf wrote: No need to. The important criteria is audible. No. Good engineering means optimizing what is relevant, not what is irrelevant. You can spend an endless amount of time and money reducing noise - where would you stop, if all you went by was the lower, the better? As I wrote, it should be easy to verify that the USB termination actually makes an audible difference. Doing that would be good engineering. The lower the noise, the better, and termination might affect noise, so termination is better is bad engineering, and bad logic. Are we still talking terminating the spare USB on the computer feeding the DAC ? Eh wow :) This tread has derailed from USB cables to audiophiles in general . Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102632 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest Jitterbug (Let's comment on this.....)
Being an audiophile, and not a mystic/believer/vodooist, just register today after some time reading you all because I felt like sharing with you all what I just saw this morning on Audiostream. The blog's entry: 49 bucks buys you some of the soundest improvements I've heard for anywhere near the price. What is the Jitterbug? According to AudioQuest, Jitterbug is a dual-function USB line conditioner. While the company points to two distinct areas of improvement, VBUS and line conditioning for data, as well as improvements in S/N ratio and a reduction in jitter and parasitic resonances, I'd say just plug the damn thing in and try it out for yourself. What you'll hear, if you hear what I heard, is greater clarity, dimensionality, and generally a more natural sound. As you can see from the photo I was listening to a naked prototype, inserted between an AudioQuest Dragonfly DAC and a MacBook Pro, but you can expect fully clothed production units to hit the streets this Spring. You'll also have noticed there are two Jitterbugs in play which added to the perceived improvements. According to AudioQuest, sonic benefits can be gained by plugging a Jitterbug into most any unused USB port that's connected to your hi-fi, even those pesky stray ports that reside on your NAS. Fascinating. Calm down and just comment peacefully... nuwanda's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63840 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102875 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest Jitterbug (Let's comment on this.....)
[image: http://www.audiostream.com/images/styles/600_wide/public/1814jitterbug.jpg?itok=Fou6HAqm] The link: http://www.audiostream.com/content/audioquest-jitterbug nuwanda's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=63840 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102875 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] For Sale: Transporter with NAV Wheel
I'm selling my mint Logitech Transporter (full version with NAV wheel control, NOT the stripped down SE version). All original boxes, manuals and accessories. Fully functional and in mint condition., used less than 100 hours (conservative estimate) since this was a second unit purchased as a back-up. Display and NAV wheel are flawless; the unit sounds amazing! Original double box with all original packaging for safe shipment. Stereophile review here for those of you not familiar with this legendary piece of equipment: http://www.stereophile.com/mediaservers/207slim/ I'm asking $900 and I will cover PayPal fees and insured Ground UPS shipment. See pictures and my seller feedback 'here' (http://www.head-fi.org/t/750058/logitech-squeezebox-transporter-with-nav-wheel) on Head-Fi. Please PM me with any questions. +---+ |Filename: Transporter - Front.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=17125| +---+ Slim Devices Transporter (2 ea), Touch (2 ea), Squeezebox v3 (4 ea), Radio, Boom, Controller (2 ea), QNAP TS-239 Pro NAS WilCox's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10508 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102877 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] AudioQuest Jitterbug (Let's comment on this.....)
And do we actually have any evidence that this wonderful thing makes any audible difference? To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102875 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Oh-oh, the ethernet/USB cable dispute all over again ...
Mnyb wrote: I never thinks it's is that easy as just follows the money , its a culture with a believe system an anti science one sadly . Rational arguments have little meaning . For example that if you measure , like Archimago has done on several occasions the DAC outputs exactly the same thing on its analog output if the interface is within proper functionality . To further complicate matters many audiophile things do sound different exactly because they go against good design practice , they are not transparent ! Then this difference=improvement and finally =magic when it's time to market the thing ? The reason why the believe system is anti-science is because the believe system is all about MONEY - lots and lots of money. Look this discussion about these USB filters fails to mention exactly what it is that they are filtering, namely noise caused by jitter. But no one, other a few people, all with a strong economic interest in selling products that reduce jitter, has ever claimed to hear jitter. So now the audiophile world has everyone chasing their own tail. I could list about ten or more additional examples in the audiophile world of pointless tail chasing, from high end USD/digital cables to 32 bit digital audio files but most of you already know and understand the drill. It's about money and cable manufacturers have gotten very rich selling completely unneeded, over priced items. I've said this before and I will say it again - what a private audiophile chooses to think and believe is of no concern to me but I do take issue with the high end audio press jumping on the bandwagon of all these money making but worthless (from an audio perspective) schemes. For a very clear example of just how little the audio press actually knows and understands about audio just read Robert Harley's review of the Devialet 200 in the February 2015 issue of The Absolute Sound - it would be comical if it weren't so sad. Living Rm: Transporter-SimAudio pre/power amps-Vandersteen 3A Sign. sub Home Theater: Touch-Marantz HTR-Energy Veritas 2.1 Linn sub Computer Rm: Touch-Headroom Desktop w/DAC-Aragon amp-Energy Veritas 2.1 Energy sub Bedroom: Touch-HR Desktop w/DAC-Audio Refinement amp-Energy Veritas 2.0 Guest Rm: Duet-Sony soundbar Garage: SB3-JVC compact system Controls: iPeng; SB Controller; Moose Muso Server: SBS on dedicated windows 7 computer w/2 Drobos 'Last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/jazzfann/) ralphpnj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10827 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102632 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Oh-oh, the ethernet/USB cable dispute all over again ...
soundcheck wrote: Open lines or ports usually act like antennas/transmitters/reflectors. That even applies to RCA jacks. There are physical interferences. Properly terminating open ports is a very well known measure to get interferences down. Where? Where does it says this? If anything like this is acting as an antenna for interference then it's been built by a 2 year old. It's odd that no computer manufacturers or the people that wrote the USB spec think that they need any of this isn't it. 'last.fm' (http://www.last.fm/user/probedb) probedb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7825 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102632 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Oh-oh, the ethernet/USB cable dispute all over again ...
soundcheck wrote: Every (radio) engineer (1 semester) knows about EMI/RFI effects. Of course. Every engineer also knows that there is a level that is low enough that the noise doesn't have any effect. There's nothing to prove here. Except that the USB termination actually makes an audible difference. Should be easy to verify. To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102632 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Oh-oh, the ethernet/USB cable dispute all over again ...
darrenyeats wrote: It seems DAC manufacturers (including the 'non-foo' pro firms) are not stopping though. That's good. And there's an obvious reason for not stopping. Audiophiles and Reviewers are driving them nuts. ;) And companies like iFi are popping up with battery driven 200$ devices that shuffle the market. Some Pro-Audio companies, such as RME, would be better off to listen what's going on out there. I do own a RME FF UCX. The stock device is a pretty average performer. I kept it after swapping its power supply and applying a USB filter. ::: ' Touch Toolbox and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102632 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Oh-oh, the ethernet/USB cable dispute all over again ...
soundcheck wrote: Hmmh. Define: Noise No need to. The important criteria is audible. I do know one thing - the lower, the better - over the entire bandwidth. No. Good engineering means optimizing what is relevant, not what is irrelevant. You can spend an endless amount of time and money reducing noise - where would you stop, if all you went by was the lower, the better? As I wrote, it should be easy to verify that the USB termination actually makes an audible difference. Doing that would be good engineering. The lower the noise, the better, and termination might affect noise, so termination is better is bad engineering, and bad logic. To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102632 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Oh-oh, the ethernet/USB cable dispute all over again ...
soundcheck wrote: These devices get measured in a clean test bed. That's why peripheral changes in real world scenarios can have and usually have impact -- even on Femto Clock DACs. Yes, good to bear in mind what measurements are and what they are not! But still very useful of course. I do get tired of being told how proper gear should behave when I live in the real world not in the world of should. soundcheck wrote: I do know one thing - the lower, the better - over the entire bandwidth. Yes. Julf wrote: where would you stop, if all you went by was the lower, the better? It seems DAC manufacturers (including the pro firms) are not stopping though. Check it, add to it! http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/ http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. SB Touch darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102632 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Oh-oh, the ethernet/USB cable dispute all over again ...
Julf wrote: Of course. Every engineer also knows that there is a level that is low enough that the noise doesn't have any effect. Hmmh. Define: Noise The noise we're talking about is a complex bucket full of everything. It's comprising of all kind of different noise types. People tend to simply that expression. If it is low enough might apply for one area, for another area it can be much too high at the same time. For digital transmission and clocks etc. we're talking up 2 several 100MHz. For audio we're talking Hz/khz. There are direct but also indirect effects (clock modulations etc. affecting the MHz area) that relate to the audio performance. I - as an engineer - would have a problem to say what's low enough without looking at every single bolt first and at the next step at the system. A pretty complex task. I do know one thing - the lower, the better - over the entire bandwidth. Enjoy. ::: ' Touch Toolbox and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102632 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Oh-oh, the ethernet/USB cable dispute all over again ...
Every engineer does as much as a specification asks for. Usually no more. USB or networks were never build with Audio in mind. If a bit gets lost. It's send once more. That's not good enough, neither for medical, nor for lab, nor for audio applications. Every (radio) engineer (1 semester) knows about EMI/RFI effects. There's nothing to prove here. ::: ' Touch Toolbox and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102632 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Oh-oh, the ethernet/USB cable dispute all over again ...
Julf wrote: But what AudioQuest is claiming is that their filter will bring benefits even when used on unused USB connectors (not just the one you connect your DAC to). Well ofcourse:) any pc like thingy have plenty of outputs . Yeas some tweaks have some actual physics involved , next question does it really matter in that particular case ? Usually not unless a cable for example is completely out of spec for that particular application and that is not related to price . suspect that many high cables actually do perform worse than mono price due to esoteric thinking in the design . Had some VdH carbon fibre cables once , but luckily never had the money to explore more weird designs while hooked on the audiophools pipe dream . The successful cable companies are most likely well aware of the scam they are pulling . But audiophile believe system have penetraded the design of some stuff ,so some garage outfits can be truly misguided. It's not only audimagazines and audiophiles that are victims to bad testing practices and biases ,but also many high end designers. I never thinks it's is that easy as just follows the money , its a culture with a believe system an anti science one sadly . Rational arguments have little meaning . For example that if you measure , like Archimago has done on several occasions the DAC outputs exactly the same thing on its analog output if the interface is within proper functionality . To further complicate matters many audiophile things do sound different exactly because they go against good design practice , they are not transparent ! Then this difference=improvement and finally =magic when it's time to market the thing ? Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) server HP proliant micro server N36L with ClearOS Linux http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102632 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Oh-oh, the ethernet/USB cable dispute all over again ...
Open lines or ports usually act like antennas/transmitters/reflectors. That even applies to RCA jacks. There are physical interferences. Properly terminating open ports is a very well known measure to get interferences down. If and how this impacts your soundexpierence is a different thing. Look. There are no idiots working at Audioquest (Gordon Rankin) or iFi (Thorsten Loesch - long history in DIY Audio). Obviously you have to differentiate between the engineers and the marketing folks and audiophiles with plenty of pocket money. Marketing needs bold marketing messages and Audiophiles need a successstory. These engineers apply certain (usually known) measures. Several of these measures are e.g. used in the medical industry for a long time. They also figure things out on a trial and error basis or they just jump on the train. Customers decide if it's works for them or not. Huge efforts in audio design go into reduction of noise, EMI RFI, interferences, stabil and noisefree powersupplies, clean grounds... The majority of DACs are simply not good enough out there - they IMO did improve during the last years. These devices get measured in a clean test bed. That's why peripheral changes in real world scenarios can have and usually have impact -- even on Femto Clock DACs. It's all not just esoteric talk. It's not all just black and white. Enjoy. ::: ' Touch Toolbox and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=102632 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
