Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Raspberry Pi 3 & HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro...
Archimago wrote: > Hi Arny, > Not sure which part in the testing you're referring to with -80dB. > I'm referring to either of the THD+n or IMD+N measurements shown in the Audio Rightmark results at http://archimago.blogspot.com/2016/10/measurements-raspberry-pi-3-hifiberry.html, either sample rate. Either THD and IM are commonly called "Spurious Responses". In one THD test the THD is 0.0047% and in the other it is 0.0049%. In my book, six of one, half dozen of the other or about 0.005% In one IMD+N test the IM is 0.0077% and in the other it is 0.0066%. In my book, also about six of one, half dozen of the other or about 0.0075% 0.005% about the same as 86 dB down, while 0.0075% is more like 82 dB down. I approximated both quite roughly as -80 dB. The DAC chip in the Hi Fi Berry has a noise spec that is somewhat better than its THD+N or IM+N performance. While playing music and other signals, the THD+N or IMD+N numbers are probably more representative of its actual performance than the number for background noise. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106213 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Raspberry Pi 3 & HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro...
Wombat wrote: > There is a follow up: > http://archimago.blogspot.de/2016/10/measurements-hifiberry-dac-pro-pcm5122.html > Nice that you extended the test and have some words about how alone > "less ringing" in the name of the filter may trigger the audiophile > brain most certainly more as any technical or even audible benefit. > Guess Linear Power and alike terms do the same. Thanks Wombat. Indeed, we have to be careful I think about the wording people use and recognize that with these time domain impulse response graphs, there's always a price to pay in the frequency domain... Advertisers and magazine writers interestingly almost never point this out. Of course this is inconvenient for folks who want to show their beautiful non-ringing impulse images and sweep the fact that the DAC has all kinds of ultrasonic aliasing products! Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106213 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Raspberry Pi 3 & HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro...
arnyk wrote: > Interesting data point. As the report mentions, one possible area of > concern is the device's approximate -80 dB suppression of spurious > responses and noise. This is about 16 dB poorer than CD quality (-96 > dB) but about 20 dB better than a typical real world threshold of > audibility (-60 dB). > > These days true CD quality performance (ca. -96 dB) is available at the > analog outputs of an < $100 BD player which usually includes a network > (LAN+WAN) media player with considerable power and flexibility. > > Not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison, but not too far off when all > costs are included would be the performance of an Intel NUC micro-PC's > the Realtek ALC283 on-board chip audio system: > > http://stn-bc.ru/?q=node/835 > > " > To assess output sound path designed for headphones or external > speakers, we resorted to the instrumental testing using an external > sound card Creative E-MU 0204 USB and utility RightMark audio Analyzer > 6.3.0. Testing was conducted to stereo mode, 24-bit / 44.1 kHz. > As a result of testing the audio section in the laptop Acer Aspire > R7-371T was rated "very good." Full report with the test results in RMAA > 6.3.0 software on a separate page, the following is a brief report. > > Frequency response (in the range of 40 Hz - 15 kHz), dB > 0.02, -0.09 Excellent > > Noise level dB (A ) > -86.4 good > > dynamic range, dB (A) > 86.2 good > > THD,% > 0.0057 Very good > > THD + noise, dB (A) > -74.2 Mediocre > > Intermodulation distortion + noise,% > 0.030 good > > Crosstalk dB > -85.8 Excellent > > Intermodulation at 10 kHz,% > 0.017 Very good > > Overall very good > " Hi Arny, Not sure which part in the testing you're referring to with -80dB. If it's in reference to the "digital filter composite", I think that's a result of the limitations of the digital antialiasing filter in handling that extremely high amplitude wide bandwidth white noise and the occasional inter-sample over when doing the upsampling. Overall though from the Rightmark results, the HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro will *easily* beat that NUC! Plus this device will be able to handle 24-bit audio with noise floor lower than -105dB in the audible spectrum... Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106213 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Raspberry Pi 3 & HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro...
sckramer wrote: > The D+PRO is not my daily driver, and I'm more interested in the digi+, > digi+pro, and i2s-- where I find bypassing power is a fundamental > improvement. So really can't say if stock USB power vs. 5V/3.3V LPS > improves on the D+PRO...Buuut I've set this up just in the last few > days, for another project involving making a good a/b testing platform > for the Kali FIFO buffer (long story). So maybe I'll listen, then go to > USB & see if it's diff. > > However, noticed in your testing, you always go through USB (not GPIO)-- > On the digi+ using linear power vs the stock USB power wart *thru the > USB* didn't audibly change anything... also Hans mentioned this in his > vid re: (usb/GPIO) whereas thru USB made no change. > > You can see my setup somewhere in the linux section, Kali... there's a > pic.. I'm borrowing my 4x LPS's (LT3042 based, and cheap) supplies to > play with this-- > > I'm cool if it measures the same, but would really like to see you > re-run the tests taking it all the way thru GPIO, see my setup -- Then > maybe play with the digi+/digi+ pro also :D > > Thanks for the great tests as usual! HI screamer. I don't have the Digi models so would not be able to speak about that. Would be very interested of any blind A/B testing results you may have. Of course for this post, I was just looking at ethernet streaming to the DAC. For the most part, I have not used SPDIF of any sort other than as convenience (like TosLink out from my TV) for years on the audio side. Objrctively, coax and TosLink have more objective jitter and I find USB more consistent from a sound quality perspective. This is why I've measured USB or ethernet more over the last few years and used USB for playback where available. Of course that's not to say I believe I can clearly hear a difference... Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106213 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Raspberry Pi 3 & HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro...
There is a follow up: http://archimago.blogspot.de/2016/10/measurements-hifiberry-dac-pro-pcm5122.html Nice that you extended the test and have some words about how alone "less ringing" in the name of the filter may trigger the audiophile brain most certainly more as any technical or even audible benefit. Guess Linear Power and alike terms do the same. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106213 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Raspberry Pi 3 & HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro...
Archimago wrote: > Hey guys. Just posted some measurements on the Pi3 + HiFiBerry DAC > combo. I suspect many of us here are already doing this kind of thing > with Pi computers and various other SBC's. Certainly makes an > inexpensive system for a Squeezebox replacement with piCorePlayer > installed... > > http://archimago.blogspot.com/2016/10/measurements-raspberry-pi-3-hifiberry.html Interesting data point. As the report mentions, one possible area of concern is the device's approximate -80 dB suppression of spurious responses and noise. This is about 16 dB poorer than CD quality (-96 dB) but about 20 dB better than a typical real world threshold of audibility (-60 dB). These days true CD quality performance (ca. -96 dB) is available at the analog outputs of an < $100 BD player which usually includes a network (LAN+WAN) media player with considerable power and flexibility. Not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison, but not too far off when all costs are included would be the performance of an Intel NUC micro-PC's the Realtek ALC283 on-board chip audio system: http://stn-bc.ru/?q=node/835 " To assess output sound path designed for headphones or external speakers, we resorted to the instrumental testing using an external sound card Creative E-MU 0204 USB and utility RightMark audio Analyzer 6.3.0. Testing was conducted to stereo mode, 24-bit / 44.1 kHz. As a result of testing the audio section in the laptop Acer Aspire R7-371T was rated "very good." Full report with the test results in RMAA 6.3.0 software on a separate page, the following is a brief report. Frequency response (in the range of 40 Hz - 15 kHz), dB 0.02, -0.09 Excellent Noise level dB (A ) -86.4 good dynamic range, dB (A) 86.2 good THD,% 0.0057 Very good THD + noise, dB (A) -74.2 Mediocre Intermodulation distortion + noise,% 0.030 good Crosstalk dB -85.8 Excellent Intermodulation at 10 kHz,% 0.017 Very good Overall very good " arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106213 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Raspberry Pi 3 & HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro...
Archimago wrote: > Hey guys. Just posted some measurements on the Pi3 + HiFiBerry DAC > combo. I suspect many of us here are already doing this kind of thing > with Pi computers and various other SBC's. Certainly makes an > inexpensive system for a Squeezebox replacement with piCorePlayer > installed... > > http://archimago.blogspot.com/2016/10/measurements-raspberry-pi-3-hifiberry.html The D+PRO is not my daily driver, and I'm more interested in the digi+, digi+pro, and i2s-- where I find bypassing power is a fundamental improvement. So really can't say if stock USB power vs. 5V/3.3V LPS improves on the D+PRO...Buuut I've set this up just in the last few days, for another project involving making a good a/b testing platform for the Kali FIFO buffer (long story). So maybe I'll listen, then go to USB & see if it's diff. However, I noticed in your testing, you always go through USB (not GPIO)-- On the digi+ using linear power vs the stock USB power wart *thru the USB* didn't audibly change anything... also Hans mentioned this in his vid re: (usb/GPIO) whereas thru USB made no change. You can see my setup somewhere in the linux section, Kali... there's a pic.. I'm borrowing my 4x LPS's (LT3042 based, and cheap) supplies to play with this-- I'm cool if it measures the same, but would really like to see you re-run the tests taking it all the way thru GPIO, see my setup -- Then maybe play with the digi+/digi+ pro also :D 'AudioSystem' (http://bit.ly/1ruj0Zw) - 'YouTube' (http://bit.ly/1ULq4fT) - 'Twitter' (http://bit.ly/1q8dTgc) sckramer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=20311 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106213 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] MEASUREMENTS: Raspberry Pi 3 & HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro...
Hey guys. Just posted some measurements on the Pi3 + HiFiBerry DAC combo. I suspect many of us here are already doing this kind of thing with Pi computers and various other SBC's. Certainly makes an inexpensive system for a Squeezebox replacement with piCorePlayer installed... http://archimago.blogspot.com/2016/10/measurements-raspberry-pi-3-hifiberry.html Archimago's Musings: (archimago.blogspot.com) A 'more objective' audiophile blog. Archimago's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2207 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106213 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
