Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
Although I really like the Vienna speakers (ref the lust object speakers...) First order X-overs is what it must be. First order X-overs are the only analog way of preserving the sound waves. Is that audible, YES !!! How can you say that a speaker that has a 360 degree phaseshift at the X-over is accurate? How can it be accurate when the music is played in inverse phase at the X-over point? An amplifier with such characteristics would be stamped as broken and useless... I've had a pair of Duntech PCL-15 shoebox speakers for a decade. They are designed by John Dunlavy (Dunlavy Audio should be known to many of you). These speakers are the most insensitive in the world, there's absolutely no bass, and they may run a Krell KAV400 so hard it's getting severe breathing problems. Does this sound like terrible speakers? perhaps It's just that such speakers that are designed with a ruler flat frequence response and first order x-overs and all the acoustical properties in order They just sound more like music. I will never ever sell the Duntech's because they provide more musical pleasure than most speakers at ten times the price, because they do things right. I am sure many people will disagree with me, but if you listen to a set of Vandersteen's or Thiel's for an extended period of time, you will never ever want to go away from first order phase coherent speakers... At least I will not :-)) Regards Harald N -- haraldo haraldo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13472 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
I got a sale flyer in the mail yesterday and I remembered this thread. Audio Advisor has a great deal on the NHT Classic 4 (4-way floorstanders). $999 a pair. These are seriously good speakers. http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NHT4 They also have a nice deal on the excellent NHT biamped active monitors, the M-00. A pair of these for $500 and the matching powered sub could make for a killer system. http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NHTM00 Matching sub for M-00 ($499): http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NHTS00 Good luck! -- Pale Blue Ego Pale Blue Ego's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=110 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
haraldo;261916 Wrote: Kurt You really have figured it out, haven't you It's first order, phase coherent speakers that does it :-D I fully agree. I recently purchased a used pair of Meadowlark Shearwater HR's from a friend, and I've become a first-order convert. I wouldn't have thought that I could detect a difference in the speed at which the cones were firing, but it actually does makes a big difference. The sound is much tighter and clearer. I think it also helps to get fairly efficient speakers, in the 88 db+ region at least. Chris -- benthos benthos's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2556 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
Speaking of sensitivity vs power, here's a good chart: http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/supercharger/diagnostics.html -- alekz alekz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
alekz;261873 Wrote: Speaking of sensitivity vs power, here's a good chart: http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/supercharger/diagnostics.html That chart is crap!! suddenly all the SET cult members are wrong? and most of tube amplifiers also dont cut the deal? totally simplistic output, its just marketing crap brainwashing again, havent you noticed their million dollar publicity campaign (free charts) in all major hifi magazines!!! more watts better sound? common!!! -- GuyDebord Reference 3A Royal Master monitors biwired with van den Hul Inspiration, REL Strata 5 sub. AMP: Pathos Classic One MKIII. ANALOGUE: Michell Gyro SE, Technoarm Lyra Helikon SL, ASR Mini Basis SQ phono preamp, link: WireWorld Silver Eclipse 5.2. DIGITAL: SlimDevices Transporter, link: Acoustic Zen Silver Reference2 XLRs. POWER: Isotek MiniSub GII, Isotek Elite cables (MiniSub, Rel), Siltech SPX30 MKII (Transporter), van den Hul Mainstream (Pathos) van den Hul Mainserver (ASR). GuyDebord's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14587 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
Kurt You really have figured it out, haven't you It's first order, phase coherent speakers that does it :-D I can see that you strictly obey that rule That's what I would suggest too.. -H -- haraldo haraldo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13472 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
GuyDebord;261914 Wrote: That chart is crap!! suddenly all the SET cult members are wrong? and most of tube amplifiers also dont cut the deal? totally simplistic output, its just marketing crap brainwashing again, havent you noticed their million dollar publicity campaign (free charts) in all major hifi magazines!!! more watts better sound? common!!! I like the part in the general overview: ...Maybe the listeners like distortion clipping. Well, each to his own and good luck to them. -- Kurt Kurt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2153 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
Check out the Reference 3A Dulcet's, one of the best monitors you can get for that money. The Vanderteen 2ce Signature's are not a bad recommendation at all if you have the space and if you are willing to sacrifice a bit of the transparency, resolution and lush mids that you can get with a monitor speaker. You could also go for a Magnepan MG12. If I had 1000 to spend on a speaker I would go for a used Monitor, good full range is asking to much for that price. -- GuyDebord Reference 3A Royal Master monitors biwired with van den Hul Inspiration, REL Strata 5 sub. AMP: Pathos Classic One MKIII. ANALOGUE: Michell Gyro SE, Technoarm Lyra Helikon SL, ASR Mini Basis SQ phono preamp, link: WireWorld Silver Eclipse 5.2. DIGITAL: SlimDevices Transporter, link: Acoustic Zen Silver Reference2 XLRs. POWER: Isotek MiniSub GII, Isotek Elite cables (MiniSub, Rel), Siltech SPX30 MKII (Transporter), van den Hul Mainstream (Pathos) van den Hul Mainserver (ASR). GuyDebord's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14587 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
Thanks guys. Lots of good ideas here. -- Kurt Kurt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2153 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
I didn't want to hijack the Lust Object Speakers thread and I'm sure this has been addressed before, but what are some high quality louspeakers in the $1000/pr range? I realize that some compromises need to be made in this range. Looking for some sugggestions in the new or used market. -- Kurt Kurt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2153 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
I have a pair of Sierra-1 speakers from Ascend Acoustics (www.ascendacoustics.com) that I really like. Great range and imaging. Although my point of reference is in comparison to a pair of Paradigm Atoms they replaced, various reviews and other owners seem to agree that the Sierras are a great speaker for the money (~$800). Mitch -- Mitch G Mitch G's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=548 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
What power amp have you got? -- alekz alekz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
Older NAD 2400. -- Kurt Kurt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2153 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
How big is your room? How much space around (between, behind, to the side walls) the speakers is available? -- alekz alekz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
Kurt;261133 Wrote: Older NAD 2400. o- 100W into 8 Ohm (continuous) o- Short term: 370 @8 400 @4 440 @2 o- The high-current output stage of the 2400 delivers peak currents up to 40 amperes for precise control of voice-coil motion with speaker impedances as low as 2 ohms. So, difficult loads should not be a problem, right? -- alekz alekz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
About 15' long and 12' wide. Speakers would be on long wall about 6 feet apart and about a foot from wall. -- Kurt Kurt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2153 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
alekz;261176 Wrote: o- 100W into 8 Ohm (continuous) o- Short term: 370 @8 400 @4 440 @2 o- The high-current output stage of the 2400 delivers peak currents up to 40 amperes for precise control of voice-coil motion with speaker impedances as low as 2 ohms. So, difficult loads should not be a problem, right? I wouldn't think so. While not a real high-end design, I always felt NAD produced decent equipment. -- Kurt Kurt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2153 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
Kurt;261177 Wrote: about a foot from wall. Pity... The amp can drive stuff like Quads or Magnepans, but dipoles can be completely forgotten. -- alekz alekz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
Kurt;261061 Wrote: I didn't want to hijack the Lust Object Speakers thread and I'm sure this has been addressed before, but what are some high quality louspeakers in the $1000/pr range? I realize that some compromises need to be made in this range. Looking for some sugggestions in the new or used market. You don't really need to compromise unless you want a bookshelf speaker that is trying to make bass it physically can't. Go listen to a pair of Thiels or Vandersteens and see what a budget full range speaker can do and sounds like. A pair of used Vandersteen Model 2CE (or newer Signature Is) with true biwiring would sound great for $1000. Check Audiogon or Ebay or your nearest Vandersteen dealer for used Model 2s. Do not worry about the number of them that you find, Vandersteen Model 2 is the best selling American made speaker ever, period. It has been in production for 30 years and constantly improved. Lastest is the Model 2Ce Signature II. New: Thiel CS1.6 in black ash or Vandersteen Model 1Cs Used: Meadowlark, Vandersteen Model 2, or Thiel Model 2 or some older 3s http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/cls.pl?spkrfull1206128846 http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/cls.pl?spkrfull1204918658 http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/cls.pl?spkrfull1204839897 http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/cls.pl?spkrfull1204656411 -- iPhone iPhone Last.FM http://www.lastfm.com/user/mePhone Media Room: Transporter, Vandersteen Quatro Signature, Ayre MX-R Mono Blocks, VTL TL-6.5 Signature Pre-Amp, VCC-5 Reference Center Channel, four VSM-1 Signatures, Runco 710, RAM Oppo DV970HD, VeraStarr 6.4SE Living Room: Squeezebox 3, Vandersteen Model 3A Signature, Two 2Wq subs, VCC-2, Two VSM-1, ADCOM GTP-870HD, Cinepro 3K6SE III Gold Bedroom: Squeezebox 3, Thiel 2.3, NAD C370 iPhone's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13622 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
Thanks iPhone. I didn't realize Vandersteen's could be had in this range used. I'm assuming my NAD 2400 wouldn't have any problems driving them properly? -- Kurt Kurt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2153 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
That's a relatively small room - you might consider smaller speakers over full range floorstanders. ATC SCM-7's are an option (might be slightly over $1000 new). I haven't heard that specific model, but I've heard several others, and they're probably the premier studio monitor manufacturer in the world, so I don't think you could go wrong. There are lots of other good choices in the small monitor category as well - Genelec and BW to name two. In a totally different category, a lot of people swear by Gallo Reference 3.1. I don't care for them personally, but I've seen used pairs recently on agon for only slightly over $1,000. Here's a pair that just sold: http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/cls.pl?spkrfull1205169285 -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
The good thing about Thiel CS 3.6 (apart from their sound, of course) is that they can be placed at 1 foot from the real wall. The bad thing is their low sensitivity (86 db/m) and low impedance 2-4 Ohm. OTOH, your room is quite small (that can help your amplifier), your NAD can withstand 2 Ohm load and can provide the recommended 100W. Also see: http://www.thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site05/Pages/FAQs/faqpower.html. The recommendations are good to create a top5-10 list. Then it's upto your music, system, personal preferences, etc. If you could borrow speakers before buying them, that would be the ideal situation. -- alekz alekz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
opaqueice;261275 Wrote: Genelec and BW to name two. Biamped Genelec's are absolutely amazing! The only problem is the price and good speaker stands (what also adds to the total price). I doubt it's possible to stay within $1000. -- alekz alekz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
what kind of music and what attributes are you drawn to in systems you've heard? - imaging, midrange, rhythm, etc? I've had my 2 channel stuff in a smaller room (about the dimensions you stated) on various occasions. Unless you're willing to do some serious room treatment, anything that realistically plays below 35-40 Hz may overpower your room and be very fussy, placement-wise, to avoid boominess. I'd look for some small footprint floorstanders or small monitors (although the cost of stands as mentioned may be 1/4+ of your budget). -- twylie Thecus N5200 - transporter - Krell KRC2 - nuforce 8b - Sonus Faber Concertos / Audio Physic Sparks twylie's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=956 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] OT - $1000 budget for loudspeakers
Hey, I think the Spendor 3/5 se's might do it for your room, especially if you're in for very musical accurate speakers for your money. There's one on Audiogon for sale right on yr budget: http://buy.audiogon.com/cgia/cls.pl?spkrmoni1206129421 I second other people's nominations of used Vandersteens. To me, they're one of the best big-sounding speakers which also sound great played in lower volumes. You can also find used Quad 22L2s on Audiogon for a bit more than $1k. There are MANY options for you. -- selfdivider selfdivider's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14941 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42541 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
