Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
Pat Farrell;192521 Wrote: Of course, we sane people have a duty to point out the flaws in the sales scam. Can't we just gently laugh at the people who fall for it? ;) Adam -- adamslim SB3 into Derek Shek d2, Shanling CDT-100, Rotel RT-990BX, Esoteric Audio Research 859, Living Voice Auditorium IIs, Nordost and Anti-cables http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
tyler_durden;192627 Wrote: Take comfort in the fact that over the long run evolution will win - it always does. TD Unfortunately, humans have a bad habit of assuming that evolution will result in their further ascendancy. My observation is that this is incorrect - our reproductive prowess is heavily tilted toward the more 'unfit' - with any luck we'll evolve ourselves right off the planet - hopefully we won't destroy it on the way. YMMV. -- nicketynick Wireless SB3, Denon DRA-F101, Mission M31 loudspeakers WinXP SP2 Slimserver, SMC WBR14g router http://www.last.fm/user/nicketynick/ nicketynick's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1511 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
nicketynick;192722 Wrote: Unfortunately, humans have a bad habit of assuming that evolution will result in their further ascendancy. My observation is that this is incorrect - our reproductive prowess is heavily tilted toward the more 'unfit' - with any luck we'll evolve ourselves right off the planet - hopefully we won't destroy it on the way. YMMV. Evolution's direction seems to be for humans to be dopes. It is clear that intelligence has not enhanced smart people's ability to reproduce or we'd outnumber the dopes. When was the last time you saw a really smart guy getting laid? Technology, etc., all created by smart people, is an aberration; intelligence is a product of mutation and it appears to be one that is not going to achieve dominance or even survive. Unfortunately for the human race, the smart people created a bunch of stuff that the dopes are using to use-up the earth. If only the smart mutation hadn't occured, the few of us alive would be living in caves, chasing animals for food. There would be no green-house gasses, no water pollution, no wars fought with FLIR, smart bombs, laser guided weapons, etc. I take comfort in the fact that we may not have to wait for the sun to burn out to put an end to all this stupidity. Stupid humans will probably use everything up and bring a much faster end. You should encourage dopes to reproduce and buy things like mpingo discs, brilliant pebbles, clever clocks, bybeee this's and thats, SUVs, big houses, play golf, etc. The faster we use it up the faster we can be done with it all. TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
Amen, brother. -- nicketynick Wireless SB3, Denon DRA-F101, Mission M31 loudspeakers WinXP SP2 Slimserver, SMC WBR14g router http://www.last.fm/user/nicketynick/ nicketynick's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1511 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
Tyler, this is just to cheer you up. http://glumbert.com/media/shift -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
Patrick Dixon;192762 Wrote: Tyler, this is just to cheer you up. http://glumbert.com/media/shift Great link , Patrick, thanks for that. Tom -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
Well, the scientific method dictates that one must have an hypothesis that one is trying to prove/disprove by performing detailed experiments measurements. Unfortunately, I did not see anywhere in that thread where someone had made a hypothesis regarding 'how' the Bybee 'improves/affects' hi-fi performance, let alone how empirical measurements would demonstrate anything one way or the other. One clever fellow did repeatedly point out that theoretically, the signal from the source was the desired signal, and to simplify, the Bybee simply can't 'undo' errors introduced in the chain. But maybe what he didn't appreciate is that the Bybee actually works by tunneling the electrons from the actual recording gear into your gear, taking the 'source media' right out of the loop! (I think it works somewhat like Douglas Adams' improbability drive.) So I think my point is, one can only work with the claims made by the vendor, and if in fact the vendor can not reproducably demonstrate his own claims regarding his product, he is engaging in fraudulent practices. I'm not a lawyer, but I know there are Consumer Protection laws, and I'm surprised they are not more visibly enforced in the 'audiophile' marketplace. Oh well, 'fools and their money' I have quantum hair tonic available for sale - it comes from my kitchen tap, which is located in a quantum wormhole to the parallel universe where you have hair! I've noted that the Bybee's don't seem to be patented (too much 'proprietary knowledge' must be divulged), and also that there is a nice disclaimer on the website All specifications are subject to change without notice (although not much of note is published). Oh well, that's enough ranting - it must be the rainy weather -- nicketynick Wireless SB3, Denon DRA-F101, Mission M31 loudspeakers WinXP SP2 Slimserver, SMC WBR14g router http://www.last.fm/user/nicketynick/ nicketynick's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1511 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
Bybee? Is there anything to discuss? TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
tyler_durden;192488 Wrote: Bybee? Is there anything to discuss? TD Yes.. should these sales practices be allowed? The primary difference I see is that, unlike something like an ebony puck, the bybee's seems to appears (to my eyes) to make scientific claims regarding its function that should have to be supported by proof. An ebony puck is purely subjective at the end of day, and is sold as such. -- nicketynick Wireless SB3, Denon DRA-F101, Mission M31 loudspeakers WinXP SP2 Slimserver, SMC WBR14g router http://www.last.fm/user/nicketynick/ nicketynick's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1511 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
tyler_durden;192488 Wrote: Bybee? Is there anything to discuss? TD Tyler, There are a lot of people who aren't aware of the speciousness of Bybee's claims. In this respect, a cogent debunking may save some people money and discourage this kind of snake oil fraud. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
From http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/bybee/bybee.html Q: How can you add something in series and not add any distortions to the signal path? A: Beats me. But the measurements prove that it works. Um, what measurements do you suppose he is referring to? And furthermore, I have a hard time believing that if this technology is 'classified' by the military, that he is permitted to use it in the open marketplace - what if the enemy figures it out! -- nicketynick Wireless SB3, Denon DRA-F101, Mission M31 loudspeakers WinXP SP2 Slimserver, SMC WBR14g router http://www.last.fm/user/nicketynick/ nicketynick's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1511 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
nicketynick wrote: Bybee? Is there anything to discuss? should these sales practices be allowed? Yes, all speech has to be free. Of course, we sane people have a duty to point out the flaws in the sales scam. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
I notice that over at the audio asylum forum, the same characters have been carrying on for at least over 3 years, without seeming to have ever resolved anything. (I almost wonder if the 'controversy' is yet another sales ploy!) I found one interesting question that I couldn't find an answer for though - it was raised that there didn't seem to be any record of 'Bybee' ever graduating from Berkeley in Physics, as claimed. Does anybody know if that was ever answered satisfactorily? -- nicketynick Wireless SB3, Denon DRA-F101, Mission M31 loudspeakers WinXP SP2 Slimserver, SMC WBR14g router http://www.last.fm/user/nicketynick/ nicketynick's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1511 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
Posted by john curl here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread/t-23730.html Jack Bybee does NOT make the quantum devices, he buys them from a manufacturer. Jack Bybee and his family/friends have to modify the quantum devices to add the power resistor and other materials in order to make the quantum devices useful for audio applications. Well, it shouldn't be too hard then to find the manufacturer, and find out what else these 'devices' are used for/who else buys them, should it? Anybody up to a little 'industrial investigation'? (being located in California would be helpful) -- nicketynick Wireless SB3, Denon DRA-F101, Mission M31 loudspeakers WinXP SP2 Slimserver, SMC WBR14g router http://www.last.fm/user/nicketynick/ nicketynick's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1511 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
Please credit to one jwb: (on the diyaudio forum) A wise person once said, Arguing with people on the Internet is like competing in the Special Olympics. Even if you win, you're still a retard. Someone please remind me if I ever get ornery!! -- nicketynick Wireless SB3, Denon DRA-F101, Mission M31 loudspeakers WinXP SP2 Slimserver, SMC WBR14g router http://www.last.fm/user/nicketynick/ nicketynick's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1511 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
Well, I think 'mandatory' is a little strong... But at least they don't make any claims other than 'subjective' improvement. Fine by me. I just get offended by scientific mumbo-jumbo, that is not in any way backed up. IMO, if you don't understand what it does/how it works, just say so! -- nicketynick Wireless SB3, Denon DRA-F101, Mission M31 loudspeakers WinXP SP2 Slimserver, SMC WBR14g router http://www.last.fm/user/nicketynick/ nicketynick's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1511 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
tomjtx;192507 Wrote: Tyler, There are a lot of people who aren't aware of the speciousness of Bybee's claims. In this respect, a cogent debunking may save some people money and discourage this kind of snake oil fraud. Bybee stuff and 100s of other audio frauds have been debunked in internet forums a million times over. Yet the market for them persists. It is sort of like the crop-circle hoaxes of the 80s. Even after the guys who invented them came out and showed exactly how they made the circles, you can still find web sites about the mystery of crop circles. There is a not so small segment of the human race that wants to believe in nonsense and even some who will kill and die over such beliefs as we can see demonstrated in the middle-east and other places every day. You can't change it. Give it up. Those people are hopeless. TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
You can't change it. Give it up. Those people are hopeless. Take comfort in the fact that over the long run evolution will win - it always does. TD Tyler, So, you are an optimist after all :-) -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
Sure I am an optimist. I just have a longer time horizon than most other optimists and that causes people to confuse me with a pessimist. The real solution to all our problems will come when the sun explodes or burns out. I can hardly wait! TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
Certainly the explanations I've seen of how the thing is supposed to function are total gibberish. Anyway it looks like AC did a pretty good job demolishing it - as expected, it's nothing more than a cheap resistor sold for a 200x profit margin. But I refuse to post over there since Occam won't allow discussions of blind testing, an attitude which deeply offends me ;-). -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
opaqueice;192273 Wrote: Certainly the explanations I've seen of how the thing is supposed to function are total gibberish. Anyway it looks like AC did a pretty good job demolishing it - as expected, it's nothing more than a cheap resistor sold for a 200x profit margin. But I refuse to post over there since Occam won't allow discussions of blind testing, an attitude which deeply offends me ;-). Maybe we should buy Occam a new razor -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
tomjtx;192278 Wrote: Maybe we should buy Occam a new razor Haha, very good! And particularly apt for this topic... -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
opaqueice;192281 Wrote: Haha, very good! And particularly apt for this topic... Occam is now splitting the AC thread: one for a measurements only discussion and another for the philosophical discussion of the truthfulness of bybee's claims. Seems his razor is getting a work out. Ac is SO moderated it can be stifling at times -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
Gents, I'm quite flattered that my moderation merits your discussion. Some points of fact - 1. I'm simply going to SPLIT the thread into 2 separate threads on the same Lab Circle. No posts will be lost or censored. The original thread will contain results and discussion of actual measurements. The persons who actually made the efforts of empirical measurements want this because they (and I) would like folks to be able to access actual information and discuss the meanings of those measurements, without having to sift through 17+ pages of twaddle and accusations. 2. Discussions OF actual empirical DBT, SBT, ABx tests are encouraged on the AC Lab Circle as long as they are presented by the person who actually performed the test. Indeed, this is censorship; I view it as an effort to maintain a high SN ratio. I see no point in endlessly rehashing the same material ABOUT testing. -- occam occam's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=949 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
So what's wrong with stating that you believe Bybee is a fraud? What's he going to do, sue you for defamation and/or libel? Would not the burden of proof for his claims (super-conductance, etc) not then rest squarely on his shoulders? There wouldn't be so much discussion if he had illustrated proof for these claims previously, so I doubt he's going to come up with any proof at this stage! Frankly, in my limited experience, I've seen the circumstances that could lead one down the slippery slope of inventing some scientific mumbo-jumbo to explain an 'effect'; and, perhaps, just to justify lack of any other demonstrable progress! Hey, does anyone know if audiophiles have a predisposition for baldness? If it turns out they do, I have a hair tonic for sale. I should start drafting up its magical/scientific properties. -- nicketynick Wireless SB3, Denon DRA-F101, Mission M31 loudspeakers WinXP SP2 Slimserver, SMC WBR14g router http://www.last.fm/user/nicketynick/ nicketynick's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1511 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] bybee discussion on ac
nicketynick;192326 Wrote: So what's wrong with stating that you believe Bybee is a fraud? I think the point is that The Lab Circle on AC is for discussion and analysis based on science, engineering, and testing. If, based on those discussions and analysis, something is proven to likely be a false claim, then great...but the comments like I think it's a scam without specific testing, data, and analysis takes this point off course. The primary discussion of that thread in particular had someone taking measurements of a device and someone else opening one up and looking at the materials used. The secondary discussion that was split off was based on discussion of the theory (eg. I think it's a scam). Think of it as, say, a lab...not a roundtable for theoretical debate. -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=34154 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
