Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud proof fence
Excellent, Thanks Mike. That explains a lot more than the paper ever did. Clearly if the settlers cleared land as far east as they could to grow wheat, then the rainfall has a fairly difined boundary. The fence does not stop the rain nor the clouds. There does seem to be a sort of dividing line, which likely has a geographic explanation. I took the Indian Pacific train to Perth last year. The edge of the Nullabor (no trees) is very dramatic on the western side, possibly something to do with the subsoil. On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 7:29 PM, Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com wrote: You need to understand the geography and climate of SW W.A. The wheatbelt is the area in the SW where the rainfall is high enough to grow wheat. Check out any satellite photos of the area. The rabbit proof fence is the limit of that area pretty much. I had a pal in physics at UWA in the late 1960s who came from a farm just west of the fence. If they were lucky they got a crop 2 out of 5 years and then the bastard emus would be looking hungrily at it from the other side of the fence. So the fence location isn't exactly independent of the surface vegetation/rainfall characteristics. The rain is mostly in winter apart from the odd summer thunderstorm and comes from the showers following passage of cold fronts. Much of the rain falls on the coastal plain and Darling range (what there is of it - Perth is built on a coastal desert) and what is left goes to the wheatbelt. After the harvest in December the wheatbelt is nearly bone dry. Great outlanding country - tell me about it. Your biggest problem, if you didn't figure out where the fences/roads/houses were while still airborne is figuring out where to walk to after landing. If you fly there in summer you'll get good at flying in blue thermals except for the odd spectacular trough day which will have very high based cu and high convection. I've been to 16500 feet in blue thermals there. Much like South Australia but without a large river for irrigation fed by the Great Divide. The dry ground and only a little bit of dry stubble left means there sure as heck isn't a lot of evaporation (latent heat flux) as there isn't any water in the vegetation. In the scrub the stunted poor excuses for trees will however still evapo-transpire so in summer there will be more latent heat flux there. In August the rains are still happening in the crop growing areas with higher rainfall so that's where the latent heat flux is greater than in the scrub. Nothing all that surprising in that paper. What isn't obvious is the salinity problem. Lots of salt lakes and salt coming to the surface as a result of tree clearing. This has been addressed since the mid 1970s with replanting and other mitigation methods. Mike At 06:49 PM 9/06/2014, you wrote: Thanks Robert, Just to clarify for me. The latent heat flux is the movement of heat energy from the surface to altitude associated with the evaporation of water at the surface and its condensation at altitude in clouds.  I take it that, Latent heat flux is one of the effects which generates thermals. The other is sensible heat ie ground gets hot, transfers heat to near surface air by conduction. Air then rises (convection). Do you have any thoughts on why the natural vegetation (we used to call it scrub) has a strong bias to Latent Heat Flux in December but not in August? On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Robert Hart crispin...@gmail.com wrote: On 08-Jun-14 08:44, Peter Champness wrote: That seems right. They should have asked glider pilots. I note that the paper shows that the latent heat flux is strongly skewed to the native vegetation areas in Dec (soaring season). In August it is the other way, higher over the agricultural areas. I assume latent heat flux means avapoeration. Latent heat is the heat absorbed or released during a phase change (ie solid/liquid/gas phases). In water, there is very significant latent heat involved in evaporating water which is then released when the water vapour recondenses to liquid water (droplets) in clouds. The latent heat flux is the movement of heat energy from the surface to altitude associated with the evaporation of water at the surface and its condensation at altitude in clouds. As flatland glider pilots, we ride this flux in the form of thermals generated by a number of effects. -- Note: I am changing my email address - please only use my gmail address from now on! Robert Hart                          crispin...@gmail.com +61 438 385 533 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list
Re: [Aus-soaring] Toulouse-Lautrec/ Henri Rousseau
How do I post a new thread? On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Peter Champness plchampn...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Gary, For some reason the images were not easy to down load. Image 1. I take they are scub(bers). Image 2. Wright flyer at the Rheims event 1909? On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Gary Stevenson gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: Hi All, Further to my earlier email, here are two images for your consideration. The first might inspire you to have a look at higher definition images of T-L ‘s work. Re the second image – a painting by Rousseau who was a contemporary of T-L – what is that strange contraption that is shown in the sky? Gary *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Gary Stevenson *Sent:* Monday, 9 June 2014 10:32 PM *To:* 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud proof fence Hi Mike, Awesome. Very nicely brought together. ** Loved the bit about the “stunted poor excuses for trees” I immediately flashed on Henri de Toulouse- Lautrec, one of the masters of the French Post- Impressionist school of painting who was also a bit that way (although not a tree). * Waffling on, you are no doubt familiar with the “Mallee Scrub” . Unknown to most of the world, Mallee roots are the finest/ best heat output, wood fuel known to man. However I can assure you that they are “a bit” gnarly, and do not split like plantation grown pine. Gary *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Mike Borgelt *Sent:* Monday, 9 June 2014 7:29 PM *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud proof fence You need to understand the geography and climate of SW W.A. The wheatbelt is the area in the SW where the rainfall is high enough to grow wheat. Check out any satellite photos of the area. The rabbit proof fence is the limit of that area pretty much. I had a pal in physics at UWA in the late 1960s who came from a farm just west of the fence. If they were lucky they got a crop 2 out of 5 years and then the bastard emus would be looking hungrily at it from the other side of the fence. So the fence location isn't exactly independent of the surface vegetation/rainfall characteristics. The rain is mostly in winter apart from the odd summer thunderstorm and comes from the showers following passage of cold fronts. Much of the rain falls on the coastal plain and Darling range (what there is of it - Perth is built on a coastal desert) and what is left goes to the wheatbelt. After the harvest in December the wheatbelt is nearly bone dry. Great outlanding country - tell me about it. Your biggest problem, if you didn't figure out where the fences/roads/houses were while still airborne is figuring out where to walk to after landing. If you fly there in summer you'll get good at flying in blue thermals except for the odd spectacular trough day which will have very high based cu and high convection. I've been to 16500 feet in blue thermals there. Much like South Australia but without a large river for irrigation fed by the Great Divide. The dry ground and only a little bit of dry stubble left means there sure as heck isn't a lot of evaporation (latent heat flux) as there isn't any water in the vegetation. In the scrub the stunted poor excuses for trees will however still evapo-transpire so in summer there will be more latent heat flux there. In August the rains are still happening in the crop growing areas with higher rainfall so that's where the latent heat flux is greater than in the scrub. Nothing all that surprising in that paper. What isn't obvious is the salinity problem. Lots of salt lakes and salt coming to the surface as a result of tree clearing. This has been addressed since the mid 1970s with replanting and other mitigation methods. Mike At 06:49 PM 9/06/2014, you wrote: Thanks Robert, Just to clarify for me. The latent heat flux is the movement of heat energy from the surface to altitude associated with the evaporation of water at the surface and its condensation at altitude in clouds.  I take it that, Latent heat flux is one of the effects which generates thermals. The other is sensible heat ie ground gets hot, transfers heat to near surface air by conduction. Air then rises (convection). Do you have any thoughts on why the natural vegetation (we used to call it scrub) has a strong bias to Latent Heat Flux in December but not in August? On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Robert Hart crispin...@gmail.com wrote: On 08-Jun-14 08:44, Peter Champness wrote: That seems right. They
Re: [Aus-soaring] Toulouse-Lautrec/ Henri Rousseau
Hallo Peter, Ha-ha – you’ve got it! Be that as may, T-L was a master painter, and it would be nice to see some of his works on exhibition here in Australia. Photographs and digital images just do not capture the reality of the colour, detail and sheer vibrancy of the real thing. Re the 2nd image, I think that Mike B has it truly pinned as a little earlier. Google “Wright Bros time line” for further information. Re creating a new thread, just follow the aus-soaring instructions. If you are a lazy b, just change the words in the Subject Line of an existing post! Cheers, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Peter Champness Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2014 9:02 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Toulouse-Lautrec/ Henri Rousseau Thanks Gary, For some reason the images were not easy to down load. Image 1. I take they are scub(bers). Image 2. Wright flyer at the Rheims event 1909? On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Gary Stevenson gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: Hi All, Further to my earlier email, here are two images for your consideration. The first might inspire you to have a look at higher definition images of T-L ‘s work. Re the second image – a painting by Rousseau who was a contemporary of T-L – what is that strange contraption that is shown in the sky? Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Gary Stevenson Sent: Monday, 9 June 2014 10:32 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud proof fence Hi Mike, Awesome. Very nicely brought together. ** Loved the bit about the “stunted poor excuses for trees” I immediately flashed on Henri de Toulouse- Lautrec, one of the masters of the French Post- Impressionist school of painting who was also a bit that way (although not a tree). * Waffling on, you are no doubt familiar with the “Mallee Scrub” . Unknown to most of the world, Mallee roots are the finest/ best heat output, wood fuel known to man. However I can assure you that they are “a bit” gnarly, and do not split like plantation grown pine. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Monday, 9 June 2014 7:29 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud proof fence You need to understand the geography and climate of SW W.A. The wheatbelt is the area in the SW where the rainfall is high enough to grow wheat. Check out any satellite photos of the area. The rabbit proof fence is the limit of that area pretty much. I had a pal in physics at UWA in the late 1960s who came from a farm just west of the fence. If they were lucky they got a crop 2 out of 5 years and then the bastard emus would be looking hungrily at it from the other side of the fence. So the fence location isn't exactly independent of the surface vegetation/rainfall characteristics. The rain is mostly in winter apart from the odd summer thunderstorm and comes from the showers following passage of cold fronts. Much of the rain falls on the coastal plain and Darling range (what there is of it - Perth is built on a coastal desert) and what is left goes to the wheatbelt. After the harvest in December the wheatbelt is nearly bone dry. Great outlanding country - tell me about it. Your biggest problem, if you didn't figure out where the fences/roads/houses were while still airborne is figuring out where to walk to after landing. If you fly there in summer you'll get good at flying in blue thermals except for the odd spectacular trough day which will have very high based cu and high convection. I've been to 16500 feet in blue thermals there. Much like South Australia but without a large river for irrigation fed by the Great Divide. The dry ground and only a little bit of dry stubble left means there sure as heck isn't a lot of evaporation (latent heat flux) as there isn't any water in the vegetation. In the scrub the stunted poor excuses for trees will however still evapo-transpire so in summer there will be more latent heat flux there. In August the rains are still happening in the crop growing areas with higher rainfall so that's where the latent heat flux is greater than in the scrub. Nothing all that surprising in that paper. What isn't obvious is the salinity problem. Lots of salt lakes and salt coming to the surface as a result of tree clearing. This has been addressed since the mid 1970s with replanting and other mitigation methods. Mike At 06:49 PM 9/06/2014, you wrote: Thanks
Re: [Aus-soaring] Toulouse-Lautrec/ Henri Rousseau
Click on Reply All, then change the Subject Heading and remove any previous email content. Voila Sent from my iPad On 10 Jun 2014, at 22:01, Peter Champness plchampn...@gmail.com wrote: How do I post a new thread? On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Peter Champness plchampn...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks Gary, For some reason the images were not easy to down load. Image 1. I take they are scub(bers). Image 2. Wright flyer at the Rheims event 1909? On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Gary Stevenson gstev...@bigpond.com wrote: Hi All, Further to my earlier email, here are two images for your consideration. The first might inspire you to have a look at higher definition images of T-L ‘s work. Re the second image – a painting by Rousseau who was a contemporary of T-L – what is that strange contraption that is shown in the sky? Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Gary Stevenson Sent: Monday, 9 June 2014 10:32 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud proof fence Hi Mike, Awesome. Very nicely brought together. ** Loved the bit about the “stunted poor excuses for trees” I immediately flashed on Henri de Toulouse- Lautrec, one of the masters of the French Post- Impressionist school of painting who was also a bit that way (although not a tree). * Waffling on, you are no doubt familiar with the “Mallee Scrub” . Unknown to most of the world, Mallee roots are the finest/ best heat output, wood fuel known to man. However I can assure you that they are “a bit” gnarly, and do not split like plantation grown pine. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Monday, 9 June 2014 7:29 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud proof fence You need to understand the geography and climate of SW W.A. The wheatbelt is the area in the SW where the rainfall is high enough to grow wheat. Check out any satellite photos of the area. The rabbit proof fence is the limit of that area pretty much. I had a pal in physics at UWA in the late 1960s who came from a farm just west of the fence. If they were lucky they got a crop 2 out of 5 years and then the bastard emus would be looking hungrily at it from the other side of the fence. So the fence location isn't exactly independent of the surface vegetation/rainfall characteristics. The rain is mostly in winter apart from the odd summer thunderstorm and comes from the showers following passage of cold fronts. Much of the rain falls on the coastal plain and Darling range (what there is of it - Perth is built on a coastal desert) and what is left goes to the wheatbelt. After the harvest in December the wheatbelt is nearly bone dry. Great outlanding country - tell me about it. Your biggest problem, if you didn't figure out where the fences/roads/houses were while still airborne is figuring out where to walk to after landing. If you fly there in summer you'll get good at flying in blue thermals except for the odd spectacular trough day which will have very high based cu and high convection. I've been to 16500 feet in blue thermals there. Much like South Australia but without a large river for irrigation fed by the Great Divide. The dry ground and only a little bit of dry stubble left means there sure as heck isn't a lot of evaporation (latent heat flux) as there isn't any water in the vegetation. In the scrub the stunted poor excuses for trees will however still evapo-transpire so in summer there will be more latent heat flux there. In August the rains are still happening in the crop growing areas with higher rainfall so that's where the latent heat flux is greater than in the scrub. Nothing all that surprising in that paper. What isn't obvious is the salinity problem. Lots of salt lakes and salt coming to the surface as a result of tree clearing. This has been addressed since the mid 1970s with replanting and other mitigation methods. Mike At 06:49 PM 9/06/2014, you wrote: Thanks Robert, Just to clarify for me. The latent heat flux is the movement of heat energy from the surface to altitude associated with the evaporation of water at the surface and its condensation at altitude in clouds.  I take it that, Latent heat flux is one of the effects which generates thermals. The other is sensible heat ie ground gets hot, transfers heat to near surface air by conduction. Air then rises (convection). Do you have any
[Aus-soaring] Dive Brake Box Seals
Checking the Dive Brake Box seals on my Foka 5, I found that they are totally useless as rubber now hardened and bent over and wavy. In reallity they probably never worked. It is not clear to me how to seal the box. The gap is about 1mm but there is no ledge in the box to mount the seal and no surface on the brakes to seal against. Has any one tried this successfully? Peter Champness ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Dive Brake Box Seals
Peter you're just talking about sealing when the brakes are closed right? I don't think there is any seal on my Cobra brake box, I'll have a look this afternoon on the way home. I don't think i've ever noticed, not that I've had her long! Phil On 11 June 2014 09:48, Peter Champness plchampn...@gmail.com wrote: Checking the Dive Brake Box seals on my Foka 5, I found that they are totally useless as rubber now hardened and bent over and wavy. In reallity they probably never worked. It is not clear to me how to seal the box. The gap is about 1mm but there is no ledge in the box to mount the seal and no surface on the brakes to seal against. Has any one tried this successfully? Peter Champness ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- Phil ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Dive Brake Box Seals
On 11 Jun 2014, at 1:45 pm, Phillip Brown bronp...@gmail.com wrote: Peter you're just talking about sealing when the brakes are closed right? I don't think there is any seal on my Cobra brake box, I'll have a look this afternoon on the way home. I don't think i've ever noticed, not that I've had her long! Phil Ditto on my cobra - they are just fibreglass being pulled down with no seals. They are sprung, so they are held in when locked. Scott ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
