Re: [Aus-soaring] Sports handicap DG1000
No Freud intended. In an earlier email thread to this group I expressed a view that the handicap reference weight made the handicap useless, obviously "deriding" the handicap committee's decision. Have now worked out that it was my error not theirs. I would love to fit 80 litres in each wing but us more "robust" pilots have to watch the scales. Handicaps and weights are set by skinny people. :-) Terry Sent from my iPhone > On 23 Sep 2013, at 9:39 pm, "Derek Ruddock" wrote: > > Is that a Freudian slip Terry, or did you really deride the handicappers > decision? J > > From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net > [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Terry Cubley > Sent: Sunday, 22 September 2013 8:54 PM > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > Subject: [Aus-soaring] Sports handicap DG1000 > > I protested loudly about the bad reference weight of the DG1OOO on the new > handicap list. My clear memory was that I was only able to fit 60litres of > water into the glider and so used my great mathematical skills to deride the > reference weight allocated. The problem however was that my ‘memory’ was > lacking and in fact I could place 60 litres into each wing (a significant > difference). This means that my claim was completely incorrect and the > handicap committee once again prove that they are very thorough and accurate > in determining the appropriate weights and handicaps. My apologies to all > concerned, in particular given that one member of the committee put > themselves to great effort to collect the relevant data so to help me > understand my error. > > Terry > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] NSW Rules
That reference weight seems quite low. With Brian and I in the DG ( less than 200kg pilot weight), we sit at 690-700kg. This means two pilots of 70kg required to stay within the reference weight. Terry Sent from my iPhone On 15/09/2013, at 12:23 PM, Matthew Scutter wrote: > Derek, > AUW is distinct from reference weight. Club/Sports is flown dry, and as such > the reference weight is lower (and not a hard limit, your handicap will > change slightly if you are over/underweight.) > -matthew > > > On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 12:01 PM, Derek Ruddock wrote: >> Hi Mandy >> >> The reference weight for the DG1000 is still incorrect: the manual a.u.w. is >> 750 kg, not 630 >> >> Cheers >> >> Derek >> >> >> >> From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net >> [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Pete and >> Mandy Temple >> Sent: Saturday, 14 September 2013 4:00 PM >> >> >> To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' >> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] NSW Rules >> >> >> Hi Derek >> >> >> >> The document you refer to was a work in progress and was only on the site >> for a short while, I thought I had set the permissions so only I could see >> it. >> >> I will be more careful in future. >> >> It is now deleted. >> >> The pdf version is the current version and I believe it is correct. >> >> >> >> MT >> >> >> >> From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net >> [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Derek >> Ruddock >> Sent: Saturday, 14 September 2013 2:17 PM >> To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' >> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] NSW Rules >> >> >> >> Thanks for that Mandy >> >> The list of Handicaps Sport0008_Club_Sports_Handicaps (not the pdf version) >> has some issues: >> >> - The first page is illegible >> >> - There are some formatting issues on the remaining pages >> >> - The reference weight of the DG1000 is incorrectly shown as 630kg. >> It is correctly shown in the Sport0008_Club_Sports_Handicaps.pdf as 750kg >> >> >> >> From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net >> [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mandy Temple >> Sent: Friday, 13 September 2013 6:43 PM >> To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' >> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] NSW Rules >> >> >> >> They are now available (Sports – Sports Documents – Competitions) >> >> https://drive.google.com/a/glidingaustralia.org/folderview?id=0BzvOakkAvohCbDl4ZTgzQnI5SnM&usp=sharing&tid=0BzvOakkAvohCZGozSnRsQlNGeHM >> >> document Sport 0018 >> >> MT >> >> >> >> From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net >> [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Derek >> Ruddock >> Sent: Thursday, 12 September 2013 2:42 PM >> To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' >> Subject: [Aus-soaring] NSW Rules >> >> >> >> Who is responsible for the NSW rules? >> >> They need updating to incorporate the 2 seater class >> >> >> ___ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net >> To check or change subscription details, visit: >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] "Back to the AIS" Article in March -April isue of GA
My memory is that they were a set of bathroom type scales, so no hidden issues in trying to find them. Sure we can get a set from a garage sale? Terry Sent from my iPhone On 01/04/2013, at 7:14 PM, Peter Champness wrote: > He must have lent them to somebody. > > > On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Catherine Conway > wrote: >> Hi Gary >> >> I inherited the polar heart rate monitor from Maurie as RTO/S at the time. >> But there were no scales, I suspect he hired or borrowed them possibly >> from SASI (SA Sports Institute) although I'm not sure. >> >> I don't think they are being hidden anywhere. The polar monitor died. It >> was a very early and rather larger model than the current ones. It was not >> an economic repair and they are cheap enough now that many people buy their >> own. >> >> -Cath >> >> On 30/03/2013, at 10:30 PM, wrote: >> >> > After Maurie died, I enquired as to the whereabouts of these scales. I >> > first contacted Cath Conway and then Bernard Eckley , both being RTO >> > Sports SA around this time. Each denied having the scales, although >> > knowing about them. It is highly unlikely that the scales were sent to the >> > local tip. So I wonder where these scales ended up? Who has a VERY >> > accurate set of bathroom scales? >> >> ___ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net >> To check or change subscription details, visit: >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Pilots License
Sounds like you have too many licenses Ron! Just put them all on the table and you should be right. Lucky for you, most Italian gliders are registered in Germany as the taxes etc are lower. My experience has been that you need to get an equivalence in the country of registration. Italian, French Norwegian. My Gfa white card plus a BGA 'licence' plus any other bit of paper and some patience resulted in the approval. Norway was easiest, basically a check flight. The more international your license the less patience you need. The ICAO language on the new Australian GPL should make it easier. Comments indicate that flying a German registered glider is the hardest. Terry Sent from my iPhone On 28/03/2013, at 5:40 PM, Ron Sanders wrote: > Thanks Stephen, I am pretty sure that you have got the right answer. The > issue for Aussies who go there in the future with the new GPC will be to get > that endorsement or validation on their licence from the authority that > registered the glider they are going to fly, you are right and that is the > key. The present Blue "license" that the BGA issues is the same kind of con > that we do (or used to) in that it is not ICAO compliant. What they are > presently doing i guess is to get it so and then EASA compliant but at the mo > it is not. > > Bureaucracy dontcha love it?? > > I rang the CASA the other day to ask why the endorsement "self launching > Glider" was taken off my ATPL years ago. They said " oh you can still fly > your Nimbus 3 DM on your ATPL, just don't turn the motor off!! LOL > CRY CRY > > Another one for you all, > > Do I need a bi-annual check in order to fly little aeroplanes, if I have six > monthly tests and licence renewals renewals at work on my Aus ATPL?? > > > R > > > On 28 March 2013 14:36, wrote: >> Ron, >> >> This is my understanding from digging into it a few years ago (and getting a >> French recognition of my PPL**). Hope it make sense to you. >> >> 1. To fly an aircraft registered to a particular country you need a matching >> license* issued by the country of aircraft registration. >> >> 2. The "license" can be one normally issued by the particular country or >> there can be some hoops to jump through where they will recognise a foreign >> license and and deem that equivalent (to some or all of the national >> license). >> >> 3. If you are legally flying a partcular countries registered aircraft, you >> may legally fly it into, out of, or inside a foriegn country provided that >> you meet the customs/border controls etc between the two. >> >> 4. There are effectively no controls between most (all?) European states due >> to an agreement in place for some years (Schengen treaty) >> >> So the real answer. Yes, you can fly an Italian glider in a German >> competition _if_ you have your license accepted by the Italians. >> >> *The big issue that we have (had) is that glider pilots in Australia (and UK >> and NZ) _dont_ (didn't) have a license. At least not one recognised by most >> foreign countries. >> >> **My French endorsement said something along the lines of "can excercise all >> the priviledges of his license" and as my PPL only had single engine below >> 5700kg and didn't have any glider endorsement I couldn't fly French gliders >> even though I have much more time in gliders than power. >> >> Regards >> >> SWK >> >> >> >> - Original Message - >> From: >> "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." >> >> >> To: >> >> Cc: >> >> Sent: >> Thu, 28 Mar 2013 12:58:32 +0800 >> >> Subject: >> [Aus-soaring] Glider Pilots License >> >> >> Guys , >> >> >> I have question regards this new license - if i get one and just say the >> selectors went stark raving mad and i got to represent Australia to attend >> an international competition in say Germany, And the only glider I could >> rent or hire was an Itialian one, can i fly it in German airspace?? >> >> Interested. >> >> ___ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net >> To check or change subscription details, visit: >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Murray Evans formula
The ME formula was used for many years, but it was used to compare results
across classes for team selection, not handicaps. ME would apply the formula to
produce a team solution and then some "wise" heads would critique and then ME
would "adjust" the factors and produce a new set of results. Eventually an
answer was agreed. The most subjective objective process.
Handicaps were formulated by another member (? Brown?) who spent a lot of
personal time reviewing polar curves and calculating thermal characteristics to
calculate the "right" handicap. The concept was good but Unfortunately, the
polar curve data was from many sources and therefore no consistency. The first
club class I went to the pilots spent the whole two weeks arguing about
handicaps.
We then invited another group of wise heads to use their experience and invent
some handicaps. Since that time, there have been very few issues with
handicaps. It is not an exact science.
At Gawler we now use Pilot handicaps also , which is even less scientific, but
good fun. A little retrospective adjustment resolves any errors.
Terry
Sent from my iPhone
On 07/03/2013, at 8:10 PM, wrote:
> Peter,
> That is an interesting suggestion! I wonder if it could be practically (and
> fairly), done?
>
> Re "poor" task setting, I tend to think that your objection 'having to start
> early/finish late" is actually as a general principle, just the opposite - at
> a National level and probably a State level too, this is what good tasking
> should be all about! In general, the task setting at most competitions, on
> most reasonably soarable days, is far too conservative. {Everybody, please
> carefully note those two provisos - "most" & "reasonably"!}
>
> Having said that, I tend to agree with your last paragraph, which then gets
> back to the question I raised in my first paragraph above.
>
> The points noted by Matthew Scutter, in his email below, are all reasonable
> too. Emilis Prelgauskas in a recent posting on this site, talked (amongst
> other things), about some of the problems facing the gliding movement in this
> country, including a gradual loss of knowledge held collectively by the
> membership, and knowledge (mostly), lost to the current Board and those
> administrating the GFA system. Once upon a time - I think it was just around
> the time of the introduction of computers into gliding scoring - a guy called
> Murray Evans (Murray-Evans?), came up with a system that related everybody's
> performance back to their glider polar, and the results for the day were then
> "corrected". The system was tried once, and promptly abandoned, as being
> unworkable - which was fair enough at the time. The first and possibly major
> problem then, was obtaining realistic polars, for the gliders competing.
> Number crunching (laughable today), was also a problem, as I recall. In my
> view, it might now prove profitable to revisit the principles of the ME
> concept, and check their workability in the current hi-tek environment.
>
> Ann Woolf - given the tremendous (mind boggling?) - work that you have done
> on compiling the electronic AG data base - could I please call upon you to
> put the article(s?), that appeared in Australian Gliding, on this web site,
> for the perusal and comment of a latter generation of glider pilots?
>
> Gary
>
> - Original Message -
> From: nimb...@internode.on.net
> To: aus-soaring
> Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 6:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Boring
>
> How about letting the previous generation 20m gliders fly in 15m class where
> the handicaps are much closer as compared to current generation open class.
>
> The other factor that gives the higher performance gliders an advantage over
> the previous generation gliders when there is a large handicap spread is poor
> task setting.
> This occurs when racing tasks are set that force the lower performance
> gliders to fly in weaker conditions by having to start early or finish later.
> Where there is a significant spread in handicaps then racing tasks should not
> be set.
>
> Regards
> Peter
>
> Sent from my HTC smartphone
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Matthew Scutter"
> To: "Discussion of issues relating toSoaring in Australia."
>
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Boring
> Date: Thu, Mar 7, 2013 12:29
>
>
> Ron,
> Because the handicaps have practical limitations as gliders have
> different performance characteristics in different weather, which
> handicaps can't take into account.
> The handicaps are probably fair for a Cirrus and an ASG29 on a 3kt
> day, but they certainly aren't on a 12kt day.
> This seems to be the general consensus - in normal weather, the
> handicaps are close to the technical optimum, but in strong weather
> the higher performance gliders have an advantage.
> Technical ways to 'solve' this have been postulated for years,
> different handicaps for different weather etc, all of which sound
Re: [Aus-soaring] SAGA State Comps
Hi John, I have entered the comp but won't get there until afternoon of the 31st Dec - visiting family in Vic. Can you list the initial days as no flu days for me? Thanks Terry Sent from my iPhone On 17/12/2012, at 3:03 PM, Grant Hudson wrote: > Hi all, > > a little late but here is the link > > http://sagastatechampionships.blogspot.com.au/ > > to the 2012/13 SAGA State Comps being hosted by the Waikerie Gliding Club. > > See you there, > > Grant. > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Unsubscribe
Sounds like Tim Shirley's frequent comment "don't call me Shirley". New one now "don't call me Bruce" ??? Sent from my iPhone On 17/05/2012, at 6:15 PM, "Richard Skinner" wrote: > Thanks Bruce. My error, so apologies. > > Regards > > Richard Skinner > > 08 8431 8249 > 0419 818 024 > > skinn...@bigpond.net.au > > I'm reading a book about anti-gravity. I just can't put it down. > > From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net > [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mal Bruce > Sent: Thursday, 17 May 2012 6:06 PM > To: skinn...@bigpond.net.au > Cc: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > Subject: [Aus-soaring] Unsubscribe > > Go to URL to Unsubscribe > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] World Gliding Championships 2015
Ann, you are probably thinking about the British team who placed 1,2@4 at Gawler - all were junior pilots. The comp however was open. Terry Sent from my iPhone On 09/03/2012, at 11:06 AM, Adam Webb wrote: > Possibly the Junior Nationals (aka JoeyGlide) in 2007(?) which were held at > Gawler? > > The Junior Worlds have only existed since 1999, and this is the first time > they have been held outside of Europe. > > An exciting time for Junior Gliding in Aus! > > Webbsi > > > On 08/03/12 22:56, Ann Woolf wrote: >> Sorry yes, wrong year, but they did have the juniors at Gawler not long >> before that surely as Maurie was helping with the scoring. >> >> Tim, you would know what year that was >> >> On 8/03/2012 8:58 PM, aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.net wrote: >>> Message: 4 >>> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 01:20:26 -0800 (PST) >>> From: tom claffey >>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] World Gliding Championships 2015 >>> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." >>> >>> Message-ID: >>> <1331198426.18465.yahoomail...@web120104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>> >>> Hi Ann, >>> A little correction is that the 2001 comp was for Club Class, the Narromine >>> comp is for the Junior WGC. >>> Regards, >>> Tom >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Ann Woolf >>> To:aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net >>> Sent: Thursday, 8 March 2012 3:18 PM >>> Subject: [Aus-soaring] World Gliding Championships 2015 >>> >>> Well, we did have them at Gawler in 2001, and as they are every 2 years, >>> that's not so very far apart for a World Comps >>> >>> On 8/03/2012 12:00 PM,aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.net wrote: > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012 11:51:42 + > From: Angus Stewart > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] World Gliding Championships 2015 > To: Mal Bruce,??? "Discussion of issues relating to > ??? Soaring in Australia."??? > Message-ID: > ??? > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Woohoo! About time it came to Australia:-) > > On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Mal Bruce? wrote: > >> >> >? ? 8th FAI Junior?s World Gliding Championships 2015 awarded to >> >> >Narromine, >> >> >? Australia >> >> > >> ___ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net >> To check or change subscription details, visit: >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
