[Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs
Has anyone any experience of using a Citabria 160hp 7GCBC as a tug? Is 160 hp enough? Jenny ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs
I guess this means that no-one except John Hoye has towed behind a Citabria then. Jenny ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs
Jenny, I've flown a couple of flapless Citabrias in England. One had the 150hp carby engine and the other was fuel injected, maybe a 160hp. We operated from a small airfield with 950yds, being the longest run available and then a climb over trees at each end. They were nice to fly, easy to operate but lacked grunt because both engines were well into their hours. Their performance would be badly affected by the high temp experienced in summer in Oz. When I started gliding (late 60's) we used a 130 hp Tiger moth which was good with the old gliders we had. Then we used 150 hp super cubs and these were good in their day. A lot of these were upgraded (at other clubs) to 180hp fixed pitch to get 700ft/min climb rates. With the advent of glass fibre two seaters weighing around 900lbs better tugs were needed and Pawnees were used at the smaller clubs (like ours). Clubs operating from long runways in the UK still used Robin D400 180hp tugs because of their fuel efficiency and low maintenance costs compared with the Pawnee John - Original Message - From: "Jenny Ganderton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Aus-Soaring" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 2:14 PM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs > Has anyone any experience of using a Citabria 160hp 7GCBC as a tug? Is > 160 hp enough? > > Jenny > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs
A basic way to roughly compare performance as a tug is to look at power to weight ratios. Find the weight of the Citabria and the glider you want to tow. Divide the power by this total. Next you can look at the performance of a Pawnee towing a glider. Again divide the Pawnee's power by the combined weight of the Pawnee and the glider. This is really a rough way to compare performance, but should give you a rough idea. You can also look at the climb rate of the Citabria at say 70 kts (or what you want to tow at) and then knock it back by the ratio of the weight of the Citabria divided by the combined weight of the Citabria and the weight of the glider. Again a very rough way to work it out to give you an idea. Certainly a Citabria may tow an Arrow or a Boomerang. Have a look at the Super Dimona's performance when towing - the Dimona operating at 700kg or thereabouts and a 115 HP engine staggers skywards when towing a single seater. I don't know the climb rates achieved. Anthony -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Hoye Sent: Sunday, 20 January 2008 4:05 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs Jenny, I've flown a couple of flapless Citabrias in England. One had the 150hp carby engine and the other was fuel injected, maybe a 160hp. We operated from a small airfield with 950yds, being the longest run available and then a climb over trees at each end. They were nice to fly, easy to operate but lacked grunt because both engines were well into their hours. Their performance would be badly affected by the high temp experienced in summer in Oz. When I started gliding (late 60's) we used a 130 hp Tiger moth which was good with the old gliders we had. Then we used 150 hp super cubs and these were good in their day. A lot of these were upgraded (at other clubs) to 180hp fixed pitch to get 700ft/min climb rates. With the advent of glass fibre two seaters weighing around 900lbs better tugs were needed and Pawnees were used at the smaller clubs (like ours). Clubs operating from long runways in the UK still used Robin D400 180hp tugs because of their fuel efficiency and low maintenance costs compared with the Pawnee John - Original Message - From: "Jenny Ganderton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Aus-Soaring" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 2:14 PM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs > Has anyone any experience of using a Citabria 160hp 7GCBC as a tug? Is > 160 hp enough? > > Jenny > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs
On 20/01/2008, at 4:34 PM, Anthony Smith wrote: > Have a look at the Super Dimona's performance when towing - the Dimona > operating at 700kg or thereabouts and a 115 HP engine staggers > skywards > when towing a single seater. I don't know the climb rates achieved. Mankind is yet to develop an instrument with sufficient precision to measure climb rates that small? - mark I tried an internal modem,[EMAIL PROTECTED] but it hurt when I walked. Mark Newton - Voice: +61-4-1620-2223 - Fax: +61-8-82231777 - ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs
The Super Dimona's climb rate is reasonable and the turn round per tow is good when it is remembered it uses it's airbrakes during the descent. It needs a good grass runway length or hard runway to get up to climbing speed when towing and is not suitable for towing out of small grass airfields when they are soft. Don't be put off by the 115HP engine though, it's the HP available for the climb that's important. There was an article in S&G Aug-Sept 2007 about a Grob 109B Turbo towing gliders. It's worth a read. John - Original Message - From: "Mark Newton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, January 20, 2008 6:00 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs > > On 20/01/2008, at 4:34 PM, Anthony Smith wrote: > >> Have a look at the Super Dimona's performance when towing - the Dimona >> operating at 700kg or thereabouts and a 115 HP engine staggers >> skywards >> when towing a single seater. I don't know the climb rates achieved. > > Mankind is yet to develop an instrument with sufficient precision to > measure climb rates that small? > > - mark > > > I tried an internal modem,[EMAIL PROTECTED] > but it hurt when I walked. Mark Newton > - Voice: +61-4-1620-2223 - Fax: +61-8-82231777 - > > > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs
Jenny, Flown them, nice aircraft but I have no experience with them as a tug; however we did an exercise several years ago with the Supper Decathlon (180 bhp, constant speed prop, aerobatic wing), we established it was unsuitable for our site due to density altitude, runway lengths, surface and slope etc - we operate from 2500ft. This does not mean this aircraft is not suitable for your site. Stuart -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mark Newton Sent: Sunday, 20 January 2008 6:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs On 20/01/2008, at 4:34 PM, Anthony Smith wrote: > Have a look at the Super Dimona's performance when towing - the Dimona > operating at 700kg or thereabouts and a 115 HP engine staggers > skywards > when towing a single seater. I don't know the climb rates achieved. Mankind is yet to develop an instrument with sufficient precision to measure climb rates that small? - mark I tried an internal modem,[EMAIL PROTECTED] but it hurt when I walked. Mark Newton - Voice: +61-4-1620-2223 - Fax: +61-8-82231777 - ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs
Didn't the guys in Queensland have issues with rebuilding the tail of the 150 they use for towing? > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:aus-soaring- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt > Sent: Monday, 21 January 2008 10:37 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in > Australia. > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs > > At 01:14 PM 20/01/2008, you wrote: > >Has anyone any experience of using a Citabria 160hp 7GCBC as a tug? Is > >160 hp enough? > > > >Jenny > >___ > >Aus-soaring mailing list > >Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > >To check or change subscription details, visit: > >http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > Just get a Cessna 150 and put a Lyc O-360 in it. > > There is an STC, so no approval problems and there is over 15 years > experience with it at Kingaroy. Boonah also have one and are planning a second. > > An O-360 is 2/3 of an O-540 out of the Pawnee so around 2/3 the fuel > burn and overhaul cost and the last LAME I talked to was very > positive about the C150 airframe and really didn't think much of the Pawnee. > > I've watched the 180 Hp C150 outclimb the 235 Pawnee with similar > gliders behind and launched behind it in the Duo. Very impressive. > > Power/weight counts but drag is still important and while nobody > would claim the C150 to be the ultimate in aerodynamic refinement it > is lots better than the Piper Speedbrake. > > Mike > > > > > > > > . > > > Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments > phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 > fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 > cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 >Int'l + 61 429 355784 > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > website: www.borgeltinstruments.com > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs
At 01:14 PM 20/01/2008, you wrote: >Has anyone any experience of using a Citabria 160hp 7GCBC as a tug? Is >160 hp enough? > >Jenny >___ >Aus-soaring mailing list >Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net >To check or change subscription details, visit: >http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Just get a Cessna 150 and put a Lyc O-360 in it. There is an STC, so no approval problems and there is over 15 years experience with it at Kingaroy. Boonah also have one and are planning a second. An O-360 is 2/3 of an O-540 out of the Pawnee so around 2/3 the fuel burn and overhaul cost and the last LAME I talked to was very positive about the C150 airframe and really didn't think much of the Pawnee. I've watched the 180 Hp C150 outclimb the 235 Pawnee with similar gliders behind and launched behind it in the Duo. Very impressive. Power/weight counts but drag is still important and while nobody would claim the C150 to be the ultimate in aerodynamic refinement it is lots better than the Piper Speedbrake. Mike . Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 Int'l + 61 429 355784 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs
At 09:57 AM 21/01/2008, you wrote: >Didn't the guys in Queensland have issues with rebuilding the tail of >the 150 they use for towing? > > No, That was disinformation on the E-tug writeup. The Kingaroy 150 had a loose tailplane. When they repainted it they found the retaining bolts had never been properly tightened. That was done and no problem. Ask Greg Schmidt. He's at Temora right now. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 Int'l + 61 429 355784 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs
What was the power of that Husky you had? Towing behind that was marginal enough thank you... > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:aus-soaring- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jenny Ganderton > Sent: Monday, 21 January 2008 3:00 PM > To: Aus-Soaring > Subject: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs > > I guess this means that no-one except John Hoye has towed behind a > Citabria then. > > Jenny > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs
> > Just get a Cessna 150 and put a Lyc O-360 in it. > > There is an STC, so no approval problems and there is over 15 years > experience with it at Kingaroy. Boonah also have one and are planning a > second. Are they not going ahead with the Subaru powered tug? I have read about it in their website, seemed like a good idea, but I have not seen any updates there since 2006. Paul Mike > > > > > > > > . > > ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs
At 05:35 PM 21/01/2008, you wrote: >Just get a Cessna 150 and put a Lyc O-360 in it. > >There is an STC, so no approval problems and there is over 15 years >experience with it at Kingaroy. Boonah also have one and are >planning a second. > > >Are they not going ahead with the Subaru powered tug? I have read >about it in their website, seemed like a good idea, but I have not >seen any updates there since 2006. > >Paul > Don't know. I think the second 150 was planned to get a Subaru. This should have the same approval problems as a V8 Pawnee. I did talk to Richard Van Grunsven (RV series designer) about it and he wasn't that impressed by the idea. Lycomings at least have known problems. After talking about it we both concluded that neither engine was likely to explode but some accessory was more likely to stop it. An engine suitable for a homebuilder who tinkers with it to keep it running well is a different thing from an engine in a tug where lots of people fly it and it is mission critical for launching gliders. Direct drive, air cooled engines have their shortcomings but they are also simple. Some of the Subaru conversions available as firewall forward kits were at least as expensive as a Lycoming last I looked. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 Int'l + 61 429 355784 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs
I was there (Boonah) in August and then September of '07, and I believe they had a Cessna at the time. I didn't mind being towed behind their tug. Granted, it wasn't as quick as WGC's Pawnee (VH-WGC, I believe it's 250hp or so, as oppose to the usual 225/30hp of a standard Pawnee?), it was noticeably slower (although not by too much), but it was a damn lot quieter. Dion Baker On 21/01/2008, Paul Bart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Just get a Cessna 150 and put a Lyc O-360 in it. > > > > There is an STC, so no approval problems and there is over 15 years > > experience with it at Kingaroy. Boonah also have one and are planning a > > second. > > > Are they not going ahead with the Subaru powered tug? I have read about > it in their website, seemed like a good idea, but I have not seen any > updates there since 2006. > > Paul > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > -- In our high school library, at the librarians desk there was a pair of scissors for students to use, to stop people from stealing them the genius had tied them to the leg of the desk with a piece of string. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs
Thanks Mike, whilst I do not know a great deal about tug engines I thought the main advantage of such engines was the ability to be maintained by non LAME labour, lower consumption and the ability to descent rapidly due to water cooling. Not sure if it outweighs the problems you have mentioned. Reading their website it would seem that the kit had an approval, but I do not really know. Paul On 21/01/2008, Mike Borgelt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > At 05:35 PM 21/01/2008, you wrote: > >Just get a Cessna 150 and put a Lyc O-360 in it. > > > >There is an STC, so no approval problems and there is over 15 years > >experience with it at Kingaroy. Boonah also have one and are > >planning a second. > > > > > >Are they not going ahead with the Subaru powered tug? I have read > >about it in their website, seemed like a good idea, but I have not > >seen any updates there since 2006. > > > >Paul > > > > Don't know. I think the second 150 was planned to get a Subaru. This > should have the same approval problems as a V8 Pawnee. > I did talk to Richard Van Grunsven (RV series designer) about it and > he wasn't that impressed by the idea. Lycomings at least have known > problems. After talking about it we both concluded that neither > engine was likely to explode but some accessory was more likely to > stop it. An engine suitable for a homebuilder who tinkers with it to > keep it running well is a different thing from an engine in a tug > where lots of people fly it and it is mission critical for launching > gliders. Direct drive, air cooled engines have their shortcomings but > they are also simple. > Some of the Subaru conversions available as firewall forward kits > were at least as expensive as a Lycoming last I looked. > > Mike > Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments > phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 > fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 > cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 >Int'l + 61 429 355784 > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > website: www.borgeltinstruments.com > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs
At 09:42 PM 21/01/2008, you wrote: >Thanks Mike, whilst I do not know a great deal about tug engines I >thought the main advantage of such engines was the ability to be >maintained by non LAME labour, lower consumption and the ability to >descent rapidly due to water cooling. Not sure if it outweighs the >problems you have mentioned. Reading their website it would seem >that the kit had an approval, but I do not really know. > >Paul > I don't know why nobody has designed a proper set of cowl flaps/louvres to keep the air cooled engine warm in descent. Easier than a new engine installation surely. There is a limit to the fuel gain. You are running at full power with a load and detonation would be just as bad for a water cooled engine as for air cooled. Who maintains the engine gets into the approval thingy. If you do an STC for the new engine you still need a LAME only he isn't familiar with the engine! You can do one off experimentals but AFAIK you still need a LAME unless it is a homebuilt and you are the builder and get the repairman certificate. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 Int'l + 61 429 355784 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs
We have cowl flaps on our Pawnee plus strict operating procedures for the pilots particularly during decent. One of our challenges is protecting the engine from thermal shock during the winter wave season when we may have long tows to 6500ft AMSL (4000ft AGL)or higher where temps can be below freezing. Our maintenance workshop also recommended we also change the oil every 33 hours and got 2100 hours our of our last engine. Personally I would like to see one of the new generation aero turbo diesels developed for a tug http://www.deltahawkengines.com/econom00.shtml SDF -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Tuesday, 22 January 2008 7:05 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs At 09:42 PM 21/01/2008, you wrote: >Thanks Mike, whilst I do not know a great deal about tug engines I >thought the main advantage of such engines was the ability to be >maintained by non LAME labour, lower consumption and the ability to >descent rapidly due to water cooling. Not sure if it outweighs the >problems you have mentioned. Reading their website it would seem >that the kit had an approval, but I do not really know. > >Paul > I don't know why nobody has designed a proper set of cowl flaps/louvres to keep the air cooled engine warm in descent. Easier than a new engine installation surely. There is a limit to the fuel gain. You are running at full power with a load and detonation would be just as bad for a water cooled engine as for air cooled. Who maintains the engine gets into the approval thingy. If you do an STC for the new engine you still need a LAME only he isn't familiar with the engine! You can do one off experimentals but AFAIK you still need a LAME unless it is a homebuilt and you are the builder and get the repairman certificate. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 Int'l + 61 429 355784 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs
I don't know - before my time here. But I heard it wasn't very nice to fly. I am looking at putting a syndicate together for a back up tug, for when the main one has a 100 hourly, or needs a bit of TLC which requires it to stop flying for a day or so. I thought a two seater which is fun to fly, and could be used for taildragger endorsements and aerobatics as well as for towing and towing training, and cheaper to run than a Pawnee would be nice. A cessna 150 with a 180 hp engine does not pass the fun to fly test. From the comments here, a 160 hp citabria would be too gutless I think. A 180 hp one might do the trick. Other countries do seem to use 180 hp tugs. Derek Ruddock wrote: > What was the power of that Husky you had? > Towing behind that was marginal enough thank you... > > > > >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:aus-soaring- >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jenny Ganderton >> Sent: Monday, 21 January 2008 3:00 PM >> To: Aus-Soaring >> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs >> >> I guess this means that no-one except John Hoye has towed behind a >> Citabria then. >> >> Jenny >> ___ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net >> To check or change subscription details, visit: >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >> > > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs
At 07:31 PM 23/01/2008, you wrote: >I don't know - before my time here. But I heard it wasn't very nice to >fly. I am looking at putting a syndicate together for a back up tug, for >when the main one has a 100 hourly, or needs a bit of TLC which requires >it to stop flying for a day or so. I thought a two seater which is fun >to fly, and could be used for taildragger endorsements and aerobatics as >well as for towing and towing training, and cheaper to run than a Pawnee >would be nice. > >A cessna 150 with a 180 hp engine does not pass the fun to fly test. > > From the comments here, a 160 hp citabria would be too gutless I think. >A 180 hp one might do the trick. Other countries do seem to use 180 hp tugs. OK so now we get the rest of the requirements. The only thing wrong with Cessna 150's is lack of power. The aircraft is actually light on the controls and well co-ordinated and last time I flew one I found it delightful - mind you I had been spending some time in the Piper Tomahawk which in retrospect is an appalling flying machine (note I didn't say aircraft) which was probably designed by the team from Sirius Cybernetics. The 180 HP engine fixes the problems of the 150. Anything with that much power has to be fun to fly. I once flew a C150 with 150HP and was most impressed. So it won't do aerobatics or tailwheel endorsements although you might look in to the Texas Taildragger (C150 tailwheel conversion) and see if it can have 180HP. The C150 also doesn't have fabric covering. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 Int'l + 61 429 355784 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs
I agree with mike, a texas taildrager with 180hp is a ripper. they do have to be beefed up in the rear for towing though, not a big deal with the testing that has been done. Now lets see one with a small turboprop MR> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:56:50 +1000> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider Tugs> > At 07:31 PM 23/01/2008, you wrote:> >I don't know - before my time here. But I heard it wasn't very nice to> >fly. I am looking at putting a syndicate together for a back up tug, for> >when the main one has a 100 hourly, or needs a bit of TLC which requires> >it to stop flying for a day or so. I thought a two seater which is fun> >to fly, and could be used for taildragger endorsements and aerobatics as> >well as for towing and towing training, and cheaper to run than a Pawnee> >would be nice.> >> >A cessna 150 with a 180 hp engine does not pass the fun to fly test.> >> > From the comments here, a 160 hp citabria would be too gutless I think.> >A 180 hp one might do the trick. Other countries do seem to use 180 hp tugs.> > OK so now we get the rest of the requirements.> > The only thing wrong with Cessna 150's is lack of power. The aircraft > is actually light on the controls and well co-ordinated and last time > I flew one I found it delightful - mind you I had been spending some > time in the Piper Tomahawk which in retrospect is an appalling flying > machine (note I didn't say aircraft) which was probably designed by > the team from Sirius Cybernetics. The 180 HP engine fixes the > problems of the 150. Anything with that much power has to be fun to > fly. I once flew a C150 with 150HP and was most impressed. So it > won't do aerobatics or tailwheel endorsements although you might look > in to the Texas Taildragger (C150 tailwheel conversion) and see if it > can have 180HP. The C150 also doesn't have fabric covering.> > Mike> Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments> phone Int'l + 61 746 355784> fax Int'l + 61 746 358796> cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784> Int'l + 61 429 355784> email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> website: www.borgeltinstruments.com> ___> Aus-soaring mailing list> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net> To check or change subscription details, visit:> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _ Overpaid or Underpaid? Check our comprehensive Salary Centre http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fcontent%2Emycareer%2Ecom%2Eau%2Fsalary%2Dcentre%3Fs%5Fcid%3D595810&_t=766724125&_r=Hotmail_Email_Tagline_MyCareer_Oct07&_m=EXT___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
