Re: [Aus-soaring] Radio (was something about the waggling of wings)

[Derek Ruddock]

If you can hear yourself think try turning down the squelch a little... J

 

From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike
Borgelt
Sent: Friday, 23 March 2012 4:07 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Radio (was something about the waggling of wings)

 

At 10:48 AM 23/03/2012, you wrote:



The difference in standards comes from a couple of reasons.

The first is that most of the radios we use were designed with the
assumption that a good supply of reliable power was available from the
alternator, and probably little design attention was paid to transmit
performance with depleted batteries running through old wiring and dicky
fuses.  

We may have got a "reading you 5" from the glider next to us in the morning
with a fully charged battery but it doesn't mean much in the circuit after a
5 hour flight.

The second is that a glider radio is less useful for situational awareness
than the radio in a powered aircraft, because powered aircraft tracks and
particularly altitudes are far more predictable.  Also, we don't chat to ATC
much.  So in fact, a radio in a glider is less useful and less used for
official communication, and so less respected, maintained, etc

Then there are an increasing number of pilots who use their radios like
mobile phones.  I just switch off when those idiots start.  It improves my
safety because I can hear myself think.

Cheers 


Tim


 


Tim,

I agree about the distraction of radio in flight on a glider cross country
(or powered aircraft for that matter most of the time) but it is useful in
the circuit and around the airfield as an aid to situational awareness.

In the emergency situation we're talking about there seems to be a need for
communication as shown by the semaphore procedure so maybe it ought to be
the best and least intrusive communication possible?

An alternative would be to agree on the maximum release height with the tug
pilot before takeoff on the understanding that on reaching that +500 feet
the tuggie will head over the top of the field and release his end? No
airborne comms required. Best to go into/be in  high tow though.

Don't forget also the recent radio use changes at registered and licensed
airfields. You are expected to carry a working radio and use it. We might
not talk to ATC much but there are people in powered aircraft who may use
the field and if one calls and you detect a conflict you are expected to
answer. Gliding doesn't operate in isolation.

I'm afraid the no radio days are gone.

Mike




Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring
instrumentation since 1978
www.borgeltinstruments.com <http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/> 
tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia 

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Radio (was something about the waggling of wings)

[Tim Shirley]

Mike (both Mikes),

Spot on, thanks.

Radio is most useful at the end of a flight.  Whether to report an 
outlanding, announce our arrival or fit in to circuit traffic, it's 
nearly always in the last 10 mins of flight that it does most good.


Therefore, we need batteries, wiring, and all the rest of good enough 
quality that still allows the radio to work after many hours flying.  
And if it works at the end of the flight, it will probably work the rest 
of the time as well.


Cheers


 /Tim/

/tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare/


On 23/03/2012 16:06, Mike Borgelt wrote:

At 10:48 AM 23/03/2012, you wrote:

The difference in standards comes from a couple of reasons.

The first is that most of the radios we use were designed with the 
assumption that a good supply of reliable power was available from 
the alternator, and probably little design attention was paid to 
transmit performance with depleted batteries running through old 
wiring and dicky fuses.


We may have got a "reading you 5" from the glider next to us in the 
morning with a fully charged battery but it doesn't mean much in the 
circuit after a 5 hour flight.


The second is that a glider radio is less useful for situational 
awareness than the radio in a powered aircraft, because powered 
aircraft tracks and particularly altitudes are far more predictable.  
Also, we don't chat to ATC much.  So in fact, a radio in a glider is 
less useful and less used for official communication, and so less 
respected, maintained, etc


Then there are an increasing number of pilots who use their radios 
like mobile phones.  I just switch off when those idiots start.  It 
improves my safety because I can hear myself think.


Cheers


  *Tim*





Tim,

I agree about the distraction of radio in flight on a glider cross 
country (or powered aircraft for that matter most of the time) but it 
is useful in the circuit and around the airfield as an aid to 
situational awareness.


In the emergency situation we're talking about there seems to be a 
need for communication as shown by the semaphore procedure so maybe it 
ought to be the best and least intrusive communication possible?


An alternative would be to agree on the maximum release height with 
the tug pilot before takeoff on the understanding that on reaching 
that +500 feet the tuggie will head over the top of the field and 
release his end? No airborne comms required. Best to go into/be in  
high tow though.


Don't forget also the recent radio use changes at registered and 
licensed airfields. You are expected to carry a working radio and use 
it. We might not talk to ATC much but there are people in powered 
aircraft who may use the field and if one calls and you detect a 
conflict you are expected to answer. Gliding doesn't operate in isolation.


I'm afraid the no radio days are gone.

Mike

*Borgelt Instruments***- /design & manufacture of quality soaring 
instrumentation since 1978

/www.borgeltinstruments.com
tel:   07 4635 5784overseas: 
int+61-7-4635 5784

mob: 042835 5784:  int+61-42835 5784
P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia


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Re: [Aus-soaring] Radio (was something about the waggling of wings)

[Mike Borgelt]

At 10:48 AM 23/03/2012, you wrote:

The difference in standards comes from a couple of reasons.

The first is that most of the radios we use were designed with the 
assumption that a good supply of reliable power was available from 
the alternator, and probably little design attention was paid to 
transmit performance with depleted batteries running through old 
wiring and dicky fuses.


We may have got a "reading you 5" from the glider next to us in the 
morning with a fully charged battery but it doesn't mean much in the 
circuit after a 5 hour flight.


The second is that a glider radio is less useful for situational 
awareness than the radio in a powered aircraft, because powered 
aircraft tracks and particularly altitudes are far more 
predictable.  Also, we don't chat to ATC much.  So in fact, a radio 
in a glider is less useful and less used for official communication, 
and so less respected, maintained, etc


Then there are an increasing number of pilots who use their radios 
like mobile phones.  I just switch off when those idiots start.  It 
improves my safety because I can hear myself think.


Cheers


Tim





Tim,

I agree about the distraction of radio in flight on a glider cross 
country (or powered aircraft for that matter most of the time) but it 
is useful in the circuit and around the airfield as an aid to 
situational awareness.


In the emergency situation we're talking about there seems to be a 
need for communication as shown by the semaphore procedure so maybe 
it ought to be the best and least intrusive communication possible?


An alternative would be to agree on the maximum release height with 
the tug pilot before takeoff on the understanding that on reaching 
that +500 feet the tuggie will head over the top of the field and 
release his end? No airborne comms required. Best to go into/be 
in  high tow though.


Don't forget also the recent radio use changes at registered and 
licensed airfields. You are expected to carry a working radio and use 
it. We might not talk to ATC much but there are people in powered 
aircraft who may use the field and if one calls and you detect a 
conflict you are expected to answer. Gliding doesn't operate in isolation.


I'm afraid the no radio days are gone.

Mike


Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring 
instrumentation since 1978

www.borgeltinstruments.com
tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
mob: 042835 5784:  int+61-42835 5784
P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia  ___
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[Aus-soaring] Radio (was something about the waggling of wings)

[Tim Shirley]

The difference in standards comes from a couple of reasons.

The first is that most of the radios we use were designed with the 
assumption that a good supply of reliable power was available from the 
alternator, and probably little design attention was paid to transmit 
performance with depleted batteries running through old wiring and dicky 
fuses.


We may have got a "reading you 5" from the glider next to us in the 
morning with a fully charged battery but it doesn't mean much in the 
circuit after a 5 hour flight.


The second is that a glider radio is less useful for situational 
awareness than the radio in a powered aircraft, because powered aircraft 
tracks and particularly altitudes are far more predictable.  Also, we 
don't chat to ATC much.  So in fact, a radio in a glider is less useful 
and less used for official communication, and so less respected, 
maintained, etc


Then there are an increasing number of pilots who use their radios like 
mobile phones.  I just switch off when those idiots start.  It improves 
my safety because I can hear myself think.


Cheers


 /Tim/

/tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare/


On 23/03/2012 10:45, Mark Newton wrote:

On Fri, Mar 23, 2012 at 08:40:57AM +1100, ian mcphee wrote:

  >  I think 50% radio problems could be fixed with new fuse,use
  >  holder or circuit breaker, 16g quality wire, check SWR and replace
  >  BNC or aerial if needbe, and use QUALITY charger with new dual
  >  batteries.

I think 100% of radio problems could be fixed by following the
manufacturer's installation instructions :)

  >  I admit some radios are getting near their useby date~how many
  >  electronic items do you have that are 20+ years old~not many I
  >  suspect.

The radio installation in the typical Cessna 152 is at least as
old as that, if not older;  and arguably installed into a more
hostile environment (vibration).  Yet it works well enough to
carry out conversations with ATC every day.

Not sure why a glider tug is different from that 152 in that
respect.  As Robert said, their radios tend to be pretty poor
too, yet they'd have been installed and maintained by the
same LAMEs that install and maintain the radios in the local
flying school's Cessnas.  Why the difference in standards?

   - mark
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