[Aus-soaring] integral wing water tanks

[SW Plumbing Service]

Hi all,

Can anybody recommend a product and method to seal an integral wing tank in
an Astir cs.

Cheers
Stuart
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Re: [Aus-soaring] integral wing water tanks

[Mike Borgelt]

Stuart,

The only rally satisfactory way I have heard of is the method 
invented in WA many years ago. Put a little water in the tank, put a 
little suction on it  and listen for the air bubbles with a 
stethoscope. You need to roll the wing around to to get the water 
over the leak.

Then use a hole saw, cut a hole and do a standard repair.
Nowadays you may be able to put a little camera in the tank with a 
light to see what needs doing through a smaller hole first.


Mike




At 09:12 PM 27/10/2013, you wrote:

Hi all,

Can anybody recommend a product and method to seal an integral wing 
tank in an Astir cs.


Cheers
Stuart
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instrumentation since 1978

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tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
mob: 042835 5784:  int+61-42835 5784
P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia  ___
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Re: [Aus-soaring] integral wing water tanks

[John Orton]

Stuart et al,

Mike is right. I have seen the inside of tanks where they tried to seal
them by pouring in a resin mix to coat the inside andget it to seal. It was
a mess with sheets of resin peeling away from the inside skin.
I have leak detected several tanks using the method Mike describes and
found that often the leak is in a corner at the end of the tank or where
there is a baffle attached to the skin i.e. at a discontinuity.

Regards,
John Orton



On 28 October 2013 06:04, Mike Borgelt wrote:

>  Stuart,
>
> The only rally satisfactory way I have heard of is the method invented in
> WA many years ago. Put a little water in the tank, put a little suction on
> it  and listen for the air bubbles with a stethoscope. You need to roll the
> wing around to to get the water over the leak.
> Then use a hole saw, cut a hole and do a standard repair.
> Nowadays you may be able to put a little camera in the tank with a light
> to see what needs doing through a smaller hole first.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> At 09:12 PM 27/10/2013, you wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Can anybody recommend a product and method to seal an integral wing tank
> in an Astir cs.
>
> Cheers
> Stuart
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> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
>  http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
> **
>
> ** *Borgelt Instruments* - *design & manufacture of quality soaring
> instrumentation since 1978
> * www.borgeltinstruments.com
> tel:   07 4635 5784** **overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
> mob: 042835 5784** **:  int+61-42835 5784
> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>
> ___
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Re: [Aus-soaring] integral wing water tanks

[Chris Runeckles]

Stuart

As John says above, don't get conned into "sloshing" the leaky tanks, as
that solution  is temporary at best, as the resin used for sloshing will
not bond to the tank due to dirt and contamination inside the tanks.

As Mike says opening the tank, cleaning and sealing the tank is the only
correct method.

One trick you can try on an Astir is to put a little pressure on the tank
(125 mm water gauge, the same as  AD 165) and use soapy water and try and
find the leak, Astir tanks are not very long and I have found one leak on
the end rib around the front drag pin mounting, which had become porous
some how., or use the trick Mike suggests with the water and stethoscope ,
you can usually locate the area of the leak with in a 100 mm radius.

If you manage to find the leak, open up the tank with a oval hole just big
enough to get your hand in , clean the tank thoroughly with scrubbing
brush, wire brush, or what ever it takes to clean the scale etc out, wipe
thoroughly with acetone, stay away from any areas that have polystyrene
though,(Astirs are OK, mainly cirrus.) with chemicals that might dissolve
the Styrofoam as some manufactures use this in fillets etc. or on the
leading edge as seal the wing halves before joining.

then paint liberally with Duram
195- Liquid
Polyurethane Waterproofing Membrane, as far as you can get around the
opening , but keep a little area around the cut hole clean with masking
tape so a joggle can be fitted after the sealer has set  which takes
a couple of days , don't forget to seal the back of the joggle with the
Duram, glue in the joggle and conduct a standard repair and close up the
wing.

I have never failed to fix a tank by this method, but it is time consuming
and messy, expensive if not a labour of love ! I fixed a standard Cirrus
once that took 6 holes per wing as I sealed the whole tank, and there  are
baffles in the tank which means holes each side of the baffles !

Also the obvious must be said, that you are putting holes in the "D" box
 in the wing, which is a  structural repair, and should  only be tackled by
a authorised repairer with a Major repair rating in FRP.

Kind Regards

Chris Runeckles





On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 6:32 AM, John Orton  wrote:

> Stuart et al,
>
> Mike is right. I have seen the inside of tanks where they tried to seal
> them by pouring in a resin mix to coat the inside andget it to seal. It was
> a mess with sheets of resin peeling away from the inside skin.
> I have leak detected several tanks using the method Mike describes and
> found that often the leak is in a corner at the end of the tank or where
> there is a baffle attached to the skin i.e. at a discontinuity.
>
> Regards,
> John Orton
>
>
>
> On 28 October 2013 06:04, Mike Borgelt wrote:
>
>>  Stuart,
>>
>> The only rally satisfactory way I have heard of is the method invented in
>> WA many years ago. Put a little water in the tank, put a little suction on
>> it  and listen for the air bubbles with a stethoscope. You need to roll the
>> wing around to to get the water over the leak.
>> Then use a hole saw, cut a hole and do a standard repair.
>> Nowadays you may be able to put a little camera in the tank with a light
>> to see what needs doing through a smaller hole first.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 09:12 PM 27/10/2013, you wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Can anybody recommend a product and method to seal an integral wing tank
>> in an Astir cs.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Stuart
>> ___
>> Aus-soaring mailing list
>> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
>> To check or change subscription details, visit:
>>  http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>>
>> **
>>
>> ** *Borgelt Instruments* - *design & manufacture of quality soaring
>> instrumentation since 1978
>> * www.borgeltinstruments.com
>> tel:   07 4635 5784** **overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
>> mob: 042835 5784** **:  int+61-42835 5784
>> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia
>>
>> ___
>> Aus-soaring mailing list
>> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
>> To check or change subscription details, visit:
>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>>
>
>
> ___
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> To check or change subscription details, visit:
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>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] integral wing water tanks

[Gary Stevenson]

Yes, Chris's  last paragraph is VERY relevant.

 

 Try to avoid making access holes anywhere near the main spar. I don't know
how they build Astir wings, but if the designer used  spar caps and a web,
then obviously there will be additional layers of glass in this area to hold
everything together:  Not an area to penetrate, with a random hole or two! 

 

Gary

 

From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Chris
Runeckles
Sent: Monday, 28 October 2013 11:40 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] integral wing water tanks

 

Stuart

 

As John says above, don't get conned into "sloshing" the leaky tanks, as
that solution  is temporary at best, as the resin used for sloshing will not
bond to the tank due to dirt and contamination inside the tanks.

 

As Mike says opening the tank, cleaning and sealing the tank is the only
correct method.

 

One trick you can try on an Astir is to put a little pressure on the tank
(125 mm water gauge, the same as  AD 165) and use soapy water and try and
find the leak, Astir tanks are not very long and I have found one leak on
the end rib around the front drag pin mounting, which had become porous some
how., or use the trick Mike suggests with the water and stethoscope , you
can usually locate the area of the leak with in a 100 mm radius.

 

If you manage to find the leak, open up the tank with a oval hole just big
enough to get your hand in , clean the tank thoroughly with scrubbing brush,
wire brush, or what ever it takes to clean the scale etc out, wipe
thoroughly with acetone, stay away from any areas that have polystyrene
though,(Astirs are OK, mainly cirrus.) with chemicals that might dissolve
the Styrofoam as some manufactures use this in fillets etc. or on the
leading edge as seal the wing halves before joining.

 

then paint liberally with
<http://www.duram.com.au/productdetail_var11var21var33> Duram 195 - Liquid
Polyurethane Waterproofing Membrane, as far as you can get around the
opening , but keep a little area around the cut hole clean with masking tape
so a joggle can be fitted after the sealer has set  which takes a couple of
days , don't forget to seal the back of the joggle with the Duram, glue in
the joggle and conduct a standard repair and close up the wing.

 

I have never failed to fix a tank by this method, but it is time consuming
and messy, expensive if not a labour of love ! I fixed a standard Cirrus
once that took 6 holes per wing as I sealed the whole tank, and there  are
baffles in the tank which means holes each side of the baffles !

 

Also the obvious must be said, that you are putting holes in the "D" box  in
the wing, which is a  structural repair, and should  only be tackled by a
authorised repairer with a Major repair rating in FRP.

 

Kind Regards

 

Chris Runeckles

 

 

 

 

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 6:32 AM, John Orton  wrote:

Stuart et al,

 

Mike is right. I have seen the inside of tanks where they tried to seal them
by pouring in a resin mix to coat the inside andget it to seal. It was a
mess with sheets of resin peeling away from the inside skin. 

I have leak detected several tanks using the method Mike describes and found
that often the leak is in a corner at the end of the tank or where there is
a baffle attached to the skin i.e. at a discontinuity.




Regards,
John Orton

 

On 28 October 2013 06:04, Mike Borgelt 
wrote:

Stuart,

The only rally satisfactory way I have heard of is the method invented in WA
many years ago. Put a little water in the tank, put a little suction on it
and listen for the air bubbles with a stethoscope. You need to roll the wing
around to to get the water over the leak.
Then use a hole saw, cut a hole and do a standard repair.
Nowadays you may be able to put a little camera in the tank with a light to
see what needs doing through a smaller hole first.

Mike






At 09:12 PM 27/10/2013, you wrote:

Hi all,

Can anybody recommend a product and method to seal an integral wing tank in
an Astir cs.

Cheers
Stuart

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To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring 

Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring
instrumentation since 1978
www.borgeltinstruments.com <http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/> 
tel:   07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784
mob: 042835 5784 :  int+61-42835 5784
 
P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia 


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