Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k
A friend has a very nice Phoebus C (17m) that he has to sell. Looking to get $15,000 in an enclosed trailer (currently not registered). Contact me off group if interested. Tom Gilbert - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 12:50 PM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k I'm looking for a glider trailer for up to $20,000. Please let me know if you know of any for sale. I have low hours and would also appreciate advice on what would be suitable. Thanks, Greg. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k
Would that be the second last glider on this page? ;) http://standardcirrus.org/galleryaustralia.html David Lawley wrote: Coincidentally only this morning I was reading a safety corner article in AG October 1975 entitled Harness Instruments Parachute, of a pilot who ended up under a parachute when his STD Cirrus bunted to inverted unexpectedly when it hit a thermal. At the time he was finding a dropped screwdriver on the cockpit floor, did not have his hand on the stick, AND had partially undone his strap's, the glider went inverted so quickly he was thrown out downwards THROUGH the canopy by negative G. He successfully landed via parachute, but came close to being struck by the glider on the ground; it crashed less than 100 feet away! It was repairable apparently. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
RE: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k
Hi All, Yep that's the one, the accident occurred at Waikerie I have been informed off list. Dave -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of AJ Wesley Sent: Monday, 16 April 2007 11:57 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k Would that be the second last glider on this page? ;) http://standardcirrus.org/galleryaustralia.html David Lawley wrote: Coincidentally only this morning I was reading a safety corner article in AG October 1975 entitled Harness Instruments Parachute, of a pilot who ended up under a parachute when his STD Cirrus bunted to inverted unexpectedly when it hit a thermal. At the time he was finding a dropped screwdriver on the cockpit floor, did not have his hand on the stick, AND had partially undone his strap's, the glider went inverted so quickly he was thrown out downwards THROUGH the canopy by negative G. He successfully landed via parachute, but came close to being struck by the glider on the ground; it crashed less than 100 feet away! It was repairable apparently. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
RE: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k
Thank you all for the advice. So what I'm looking at is a standard glass glider. I'm 6ft (183 cm) with fairly wide shoulders so I want to fit in ok too. Could anyone who knows of actual gliders for sale like this please let me know about them? Thanks, Greg. --- Original Message --- From: Ashley Boyle[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 4/13/2007 5:09:18 PM To : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k Hi Greg. For $20,000 i would recommend something like a standard cirrus. Cirrus's perform well and are still very competitive in competition flying. They have a very good handicap. I wouldn't rule out an Astir CS/77 either.Just my thoughts Ashley Boyle (1/3 owner of cirrus GZU :-) ) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking for a glider trailer for up to $20,000. Please let me know if you know of any for sale. I have low hours and would also appreciate advice on what would be suitable. Thanks, Greg. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
RE: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k
Check out classifieds in the latest Soaring Australia...Waikerie have a Hornet and Astir for sale, both under $20K and there is a Cirrus for $22. Grant. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thank you all for the advice. So what I'm looking at is a standard glass glider. I'm 6ft (183 cm) with fairly wide shoulders so I want to fit in ok too. Could anyone who knows of actual gliders for sale like this please let me know about them? Thanks, Greg. --- Original Message --- From: Ashley Boyle[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 4/13/2007 5:09:18 PM To : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k Hi Greg. For $20,000 i would recommend something like a standard cirrus. Cirrus's perform well and are still very competitive in competition flying. They have a very good handicap. I wouldn't rule out an Astir CS/77 either.Just my thoughts Ashley Boyle (1/3 owner of cirrus GZU :-) ) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking for a glider trailer for up to $20,000. Please let me know if you know of any for sale. I have low hours and would also appreciate advice on what would be suitable. Thanks, Greg. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k
Go for the astir or cirrus, most of the glasflugel machines are narrow in the fuse, beautiful sailplanes though. JR - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 6:40 PM Subject: RE: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k Thank you all for the advice. So what I'm looking at is a standard glass glider. I'm 6ft (183 cm) with fairly wide shoulders so I want to fit in ok too. Could anyone who knows of actual gliders for sale like this please let me know about them? Thanks, Greg. --- Original Message --- From: Ashley Boyle[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 4/13/2007 5:09:18 PM To : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k Hi Greg. For $20,000 i would recommend something like a standard cirrus. Cirrus's perform well and are still very competitive in competition flying. They have a very good handicap. I wouldn't rule out an Astir CS/77 either.Just my thoughts Ashley Boyle (1/3 owner of cirrus GZU :-) ) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking for a glider trailer for up to $20,000. Please let me know if you know of any for sale. I have low hours and would also appreciate advice on what would be suitable. Thanks, Greg. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
RE: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k
Good luck Greg - from my recent experience, you will have to pay much more than $20K for an ASW19. Great glider though. Unfortunately there are only 4 in the country, two of which just changed hands. I have just bought a 1/2 share in a Std Cirrus for approx. your budget - a choice which we are very happy with. Perhaps you should investigate a syndicate to share costs? Cheers, Richard S.C.U.G. (Beverley chapter) VH-GRO --- Ross McLean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greg I owned a share in an ASW19b for many years which is an absolutely beautiful aircraft to fly and has probably better performance than the Cirrus and Astir and a very comfortable cockpit. You should be able to pick up a good one for close to your budget. Cheer, ROSS -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Donald Sent: Friday, 13 April 2007 1:58 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k Hi Greg, 20k will buy you a multitude of old glass gliders and some even older wood/metal/rag and tube machines. The most likely glass gliders around that money will be Astirs and Std Libelle's. I believe there is an Astir for sale in WA for under $20k. Both of these aircraft are capable of cross-countries in excess of 500k - don't let anyone tell you they are not capable of good flights. Both are easy to fly - probably more so the Libelle which you 'think' around the sky. The Astir is a robust machine with a large cockpit; the Libelle's are pretty cramped in this respect. Both machines have well sorted maintenance histories, but the Astir has probably had more issues in the past. Good luck, Dave I'm looking for a glider trailer for up to $20,000. Please let me know if you know of any for sale. I have low hours and would also appreciate advice on what would be suitable. Thanks, Greg. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
RE: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k
At 07:10 PM 15/04/2007, you wrote: Thank you all for the advice. So what I'm looking at is a standard glass glider. I'm 6ft (183 cm) with fairly wide shoulders so I want to fit in ok too. Could anyone who knows of actual gliders for sale like this please let me know about them? Thanks, Greg. A Std Cirrus would suit and is a very good Club Class glider. The register is a public document. I suggest you decide possible glider types and simply contact each registered owner. This will mostly shake some gliders out of the bushes as there are usually some not being used that owners haven't got around to advertising. After all there are only 2 glider pilots per glider in Oz right now. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 Int'l + 61 429 355784 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k
friend has a H301 Libelle Ian M - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 12:50 PM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k I'm looking for a glider trailer for up to $20,000. Please let me know if you know of any for sale. I have low hours and would also appreciate advice on what would be suitable. Thanks, Greg. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.4.0/762 - Release Date: 4/15/2007 4:22 PM ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k
I suggest you download the aircraft reigstry from CASA - you can inspect for gliders of the makes you're interested in. A letter to all those registered owners may surprise you - often owners who haven't advertised may be interested in selling when approached directly. I did this a few years ago when I was in the market for a 15m flapped glider. I got quite a few responses from people who had not advertised their glider for sale. Ended up finding my Mozzie that way. Dave - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 7:10 PM Subject: RE: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k Thank you all for the advice. So what I'm looking at is a standard glass glider. I'm 6ft (183 cm) with fairly wide shoulders so I want to fit in ok too. Could anyone who knows of actual gliders for sale like this please let me know about them? Thanks, Greg. --- Original Message --- From: Ashley Boyle[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 4/13/2007 5:09:18 PM To : aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k Hi Greg. For $20,000 i would recommend something like a standard cirrus. Cirrus's perform well and are still very competitive in competition flying. They have a very good handicap. I wouldn't rule out an Astir CS/77 either.Just my thoughts Ashley Boyle (1/3 owner of cirrus GZU :-) ) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking for a glider trailer for up to $20,000. Please let me know if you know of any for sale. I have low hours and would also appreciate advice on what would be suitable. Thanks, Greg. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring E-mail message checked by PC Tools Spyware Doctor (5.0.0.179) Database version: 5.07080 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k
I disagree. Hornet, Mosquito, and Club Libelle are all very roomy and comfortable (I'm 6'2 or 188cm). Standard Libelle maybe a squeeze. Glasfluegel machines were also very sound designs, and very advanced for their time - and self connect, no L'hotellier fittings. I'm a fan of Glasfluegel. Dave - Original Message - From: JR [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 9:12 PM Subject: Re: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k Go for the astir or cirrus, most of the glasflugel machines are narrow in the fuse, beautiful sailplanes though. JR - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 6:40 PM Subject: RE: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k Thank you all for the advice. So what I'm looking at is a standard glass glider. I'm 6ft (183 cm) with fairly wide shoulders so I want to fit in ok too. Could anyone who knows of actual gliders for sale like this please let me know about them? Thanks, Greg. --- Original Message --- From: Ashley Boyle[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 4/13/2007 5:09:18 PM To : aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k Hi Greg. For $20,000 i would recommend something like a standard cirrus. Cirrus's perform well and are still very competitive in competition flying. They have a very good handicap. I wouldn't rule out an Astir CS/77 either.Just my thoughts Ashley Boyle (1/3 owner of cirrus GZU :-) ) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking for a glider trailer for up to $20,000. Please let me know if you know of any for sale. I have low hours and would also appreciate advice on what would be suitable. Thanks, Greg. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring E-mail message checked by PC Tools Spyware Doctor (5.0.0.179) Database version: 5.07080 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k
I know a few square-ish shouldered people who fit in Standard Libelles I am also an advocate for the Cirrus - although people will tell you that the all-flying tail is deadly (where are these comments, by the way - surely they are overdue for this thread) It really isn't an issue. Considering the results of various club class world comps they obviously box slightly above their weight. You may also consider a Jantar Std 2 - Might be *slightly* more than 20k but not much. EVERYONE fits in Jantars (although nobody is particularly comfortable). Nick. Dave Shorter [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16/04/2007 09:11 AM Please respond to Dave Shorter [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Please respond to Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net cc Subject Re: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k I disagree. Hornet, Mosquito, and Club Libelle are all very roomy and comfortable (I'm 6'2 or 188cm). Standard Libelle maybe a squeeze. Glasfluegel machines were also very sound designs, and very advanced for their time - and self connect, no L'hotellier fittings. I'm a fan of Glasfluegel. Dave - Original Message - From: JR [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 9:12 PM Subject: Re: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k Go for the astir or cirrus, most of the glasflugel machines are narrow in the fuse, beautiful sailplanes though. JR - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 6:40 PM Subject: RE: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k Thank you all for the advice. So what I'm looking at is a standard glass glider. I'm 6ft (183 cm) with fairly wide shoulders so I want to fit in ok too. Could anyone who knows of actual gliders for sale like this please let me know about them? Thanks, Greg. --- Original Message --- From: Ashley Boyle[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 4/13/2007 5:09:18 PM To : aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k Hi Greg. For $20,000 i would recommend something like a standard cirrus. Cirrus's perform well and are still very competitive in competition flying. They have a very good handicap. I wouldn't rule out an Astir CS/77 either.Just my thoughts Ashley Boyle (1/3 owner of cirrus GZU :-) ) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking for a glider trailer for up to $20,000. Please let me know if you know of any for sale. I have low hours and would also appreciate advice on what would be suitable. Thanks, Greg. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring E-mail message checked by PC Tools Spyware Doctor (5.0.0.179) Database version: 5.07080 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
RE: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k
Greg, You may be 6 ft (183cm) with broad shoulders, but you forgot to mention the verandah Unit 5, 7 Snow St Lismore, NSW 2480 Australia Ph: +61 2 66221666 Fax: +61 2 66221633 www.spe.com.au -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, 15 April 2007 7:16 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: RE: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k Thank you all for the advice. So what I'm looking at is a standard glass glider. I'm 6ft (183 cm) with fairly wide shoulders so I want to fit in ok too. Could anyone who knows of actual gliders for sale like this please let me know about them? Thanks, Greg. --- Original Message --- From: Ashley Boyle[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 4/13/2007 5:09:18 PM To : aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k Hi Greg. For $20,000 i would recommend something like a standard cirrus. Cirrus's perform well and are still very competitive in competition flying. They have a very good handicap. I wouldn't rule out an Astir CS/77 either.Just my thoughts Ashley Boyle (1/3 owner of cirrus GZU :-) ) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking for a glider trailer for up to $20,000. Please let me know if you know of any for sale. I have low hours and would also appreciate advice on what would be suitable. Thanks, Greg. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
RE: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k
HI all, Nick Said: although people will tell you that the all-flying tail is deadly (where are these comments, by the way - surely they are overdue for this thread Deadly would be an exaggeration, but it is notable that I cannot think of one manufacturer who still makes gliders with all moving tails(AMT), must say something eh? Coincidentally only this morning I was reading a safety corner article in AG October 1975 entitled Harness Instruments Parachute, of a pilot who ended up under a parachute when his STD Cirrus bunted to inverted unexpectedly when it hit a thermal. At the time he was finding a dropped screwdriver on the cockpit floor, did not have his hand on the stick, AND had partially undone his strap's, the glider went inverted so quickly he was thrown out downwards THROUGH the canopy by negative G. He successfully landed via parachute, but came close to being struck by the glider on the ground; it crashed less than 100 feet away! It was repairable apparently. From my reading there is nothing really intrinsically wrong with the all moving tail, but the stick free stability( Basically, the ability of the trim system to control pitching when the glider is disturbed by turbulence etc, and there is no steadying hand on the stick) is less than a fixed elevator/stab combination.(I presume an inertia effect of the larger Elevator causes this, any expert opinion would be welcome) George Moffat in his book also mentions the Nimbus 2, another all flying tail ship as having poor stick free stability and giving him a couple of frights whilst manipulating his map's cruising at high speed. So as long as you intend to keep your hands on the stick, or harness on at all times (preferably both!), it's really not an issue. I must admit I have not personally flown a glider with an AMT, but hope to one day, mainly to see what the fuss regarding AMT is about. The Balaklava club have converted their Mini Nimbus to a fixed setup(Due if I recall correctly to several incidents/accidents caused by PIO's), however one of the very experienced club members I spoke to who owns his own Mini Nimbus claims it does not thermal as well as it did before the conversion and prefers the AMT. Sorry about the delay Nick(-: Regards Dave ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k
As an owner of a Std Cirrus, I agree that the pitch stability is poor, however, as long as you are aware of that, it is a delight to fly. It is very responsive to control input, and can be flown with the right wrist resting on the right knee, and just finger movements needed on the light stick. It is an aircraft which needs to be flown all the time. You can't leave it to its own devices while you have lunch, but then neither could you in a good sports car ! John G. David Lawley wrote: HI all, Nick Said: although people will tell you that the all-flying tail is deadly (where are these comments, by the way - surely they are overdue for this thread Deadly would be an exaggeration, but it is notable that I cannot think of one manufacturer who still makes gliders with all moving tails(AMT), must say something eh? Coincidentally only this morning I was reading a safety corner article in AG October 1975 entitled Harness Instruments Parachute, of a pilot who ended up under a parachute when his STD Cirrus bunted to inverted unexpectedly when it hit a thermal. At the time he was finding a dropped screwdriver on the cockpit floor, did not have his hand on the stick, AND had partially undone his strap's, the glider went inverted so quickly he was thrown out downwards THROUGH the canopy by negative G. He successfully landed via parachute, but came close to being struck by the glider on the ground; it crashed less than 100 feet away! It was repairable apparently. From my reading there is nothing really intrinsically wrong with the all moving tail, but the stick free stability( Basically, the ability of the trim system to control pitching when the glider is disturbed by turbulence etc, and there is no steadying hand on the stick) is less than a fixed elevator/stab combination.(I presume an inertia effect of the larger Elevator causes this, any expert opinion would be welcome) George Moffat in his book also mentions the Nimbus 2, another all flying tail ship as having poor stick free stability and giving him a couple of frights whilst manipulating his map's cruising at high speed. So as long as you intend to keep your hands on the stick, or harness on at all times (preferably both!), it's really not an issue. I must admit I have not personally flown a glider with an AMT, but hope to one day, mainly to see what the fuss regarding AMT is about. The Balaklava club have converted their Mini Nimbus to a fixed setup(Due if I recall correctly to several incidents/accidents caused by PIO's), however one of the very experienced club members I spoke to who owns his own Mini Nimbus claims it does not thermal as well as it did before the conversion and prefers the AMT. Sorry about the delay Nick(-: Regards Dave ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k
So am I Dave, they are very nice, and well built, but a bit narrow for broad shoulders, ( not female shoulders , but wider than most). regards JR - Original Message - From: Dave Shorter [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Monday, April 16, 2007 9:11 AM Subject: Re: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k I disagree. Hornet, Mosquito, and Club Libelle are all very roomy and comfortable (I'm 6'2 or 188cm). Standard Libelle maybe a squeeze. Glasfluegel machines were also very sound designs, and very advanced for their time - and self connect, no L'hotellier fittings. I'm a fan of Glasfluegel. Dave - Original Message - From: JR [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 9:12 PM Subject: Re: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k Go for the astir or cirrus, most of the glasflugel machines are narrow in the fuse, beautiful sailplanes though. JR - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2007 6:40 PM Subject: RE: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k Thank you all for the advice. So what I'm looking at is a standard glass glider. I'm 6ft (183 cm) with fairly wide shoulders so I want to fit in ok too. Could anyone who knows of actual gliders for sale like this please let me know about them? Thanks, Greg. --- Original Message --- From: Ashley Boyle[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 4/13/2007 5:09:18 PM To : aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k Hi Greg. For $20,000 i would recommend something like a standard cirrus. Cirrus's perform well and are still very competitive in competition flying. They have a very good handicap. I wouldn't rule out an Astir CS/77 either.Just my thoughts Ashley Boyle (1/3 owner of cirrus GZU :-) ) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking for a glider trailer for up to $20,000. Please let me know if you know of any for sale. I have low hours and would also appreciate advice on what would be suitable. Thanks, Greg. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring E-mail message checked by PC Tools Spyware Doctor (5.0.0.179) Database version: 5.07080 http://www.pctools.com/spyware-doctor/ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
RE: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k
At 07:10 PM 15/04/2007, you wrote: Thank you all for the advice. So what I'm looking at is a standard glass glider. I'm 6ft (183 cm) with fairly wide shoulders so I want to fit in ok too. Could anyone who knows of actual gliders for sale like this please let me know about them? Thanks, Greg. You might try the Std Jnatar as recommended here also. The comfort problem usually comes from trying to fit with a slimpack type parachute. The jantar doesn't have much vertcial room so you don't really want much underneath you. Use a back pack parachute and sit as upright as possible and the Jantar is fine. For the larger longer pilots the new National flat pack parachute may be an option. It packs in to a 2thick backpack or can be packed to be 1 at the bottom edge of the pack and 3.5 at the top. This moves your shoulders forward and backside rearwards which may be more comfortable and allow more upright seating which helps with reaching the controls. Much the same consideration apply to the Ventus/Discus A model fuselage. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 Int'l + 61 429 355784 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k
Hi Greg. For $20,000 i would recommend something like a standard cirrus. Cirrus's perform well and are still very competitive in competition flying. They have a very good handicap. I wouldn't rule out an Astir CS/77 either.Just my thoughts Ashley Boyle (1/3 owner of cirrus GZU :-) ) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm looking for a glider trailer for up to $20,000. Please let me know if you know of any for sale. I have low hours and would also appreciate advice on what would be suitable. Thanks, Greg. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
RE: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k
Greg I owned a share in an ASW19b for many years which is an absolutely beautiful aircraft to fly and has probably better performance than the Cirrus and Astir and a very comfortable cockpit. You should be able to pick up a good one for close to your budget. Cheer, ROSS -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Donald Sent: Friday, 13 April 2007 1:58 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k Hi Greg, 20k will buy you a multitude of old glass gliders and some even older wood/metal/rag and tube machines. The most likely glass gliders around that money will be Astirs and Std Libelle's. I believe there is an Astir for sale in WA for under $20k. Both of these aircraft are capable of cross-countries in excess of 500k - don't let anyone tell you they are not capable of good flights. Both are easy to fly - probably more so the Libelle which you 'think' around the sky. The Astir is a robust machine with a large cockpit; the Libelle's are pretty cramped in this respect. Both machines have well sorted maintenance histories, but the Astir has probably had more issues in the past. Good luck, Dave I'm looking for a glider trailer for up to $20,000. Please let me know if you know of any for sale. I have low hours and would also appreciate advice on what would be suitable. Thanks, Greg. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Glider wanted to $20 k
Hi Greg, 20k will buy you a multitude of old glass gliders and some even older wood/metal/rag and tube machines. The most likely glass gliders around that money will be Astirs and Std Libelle's. I believe there is an Astir for sale in WA for under $20k. Both of these aircraft are capable of cross-countries in excess of 500k - don't let anyone tell you they are not capable of good flights. Both are easy to fly - probably more so the Libelle which you 'think' around the sky. The Astir is a robust machine with a large cockpit; the Libelle's are pretty cramped in this respect. Both machines have well sorted maintenance histories, but the Astir has probably had more issues in the past. Good luck, Dave I'm looking for a glider trailer for up to $20,000. Please let me know if you know of any for sale. I have low hours and would also appreciate advice on what would be suitable. Thanks, Greg. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
