Re: [Aus-soaring] Toulouse-Lautrec/ Henri Rousseau
The British Science Museum have published a very informative account of the work and achievements of the Wrights entitled: The Wright Brothers by the author C. H. Gibbs-Smith >From this publication I read that Wilbur made 104 flights totalling 25.5 Hours between August 21 st. and the end of December 1908. He took a passenger on sixty flights on flights of between 15 minutes and 2 hours. He set a duration record of 2 Hrs 23 minutes on December 31st and an altitude record of 360 feet on December 8th. The wrights did not move the elevator to the rear until the Model B of 1910. On 11 June 2014 16:10, DMcD wrote: > >> Wright flyer at the Rheims event 1909? > > I don't think that the Wrights flew at Rheims though others, possibly > Rolls, flew one. They were all fairly soundly beaten by Curtis who > knew a thing or two about flying. > > If you have not read the Curtis story, it's well worthwhile. When I > read about the Wright Bros, I can't imagine real people. Apart from > money, they seem to have been singularly unmoved by what they were > doing and gave up flying for long periods several times. > > With Curtis it's far easier to see a person who you might recognise > and the engineering decisions he took appear (at least with hindsight) > to be more logical. His fights with the Wrights make interesting > reading. They appear to have retarded flying in the USA by a decade or > more. > > D > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Toulouse-Lautrec/ Henri Rousseau
>> Wright flyer at the Rheims event 1909? I don't think that the Wrights flew at Rheims though others, possibly Rolls, flew one. They were all fairly soundly beaten by Curtis who knew a thing or two about flying. If you have not read the Curtis story, it's well worthwhile. When I read about the Wright Bros, I can't imagine real people. Apart from money, they seem to have been singularly unmoved by what they were doing and gave up flying for long periods several times. With Curtis it's far easier to see a person who you might recognise and the engineering decisions he took appear (at least with hindsight) to be more logical. His fights with the Wrights make interesting reading. They appear to have retarded flying in the USA by a decade or more. D ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Toulouse-Lautrec/ Henri Rousseau
Click on Reply All, then change the Subject Heading and remove any previous email content. Voila Sent from my iPad > On 10 Jun 2014, at 22:01, Peter Champness wrote: > > How do I post a new thread? > > >> On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Peter Champness >> wrote: >> Thanks Gary, >> >> For some reason the images were not easy to down load. >> >> Image 1. I take they are scub(bers). >> >> Image 2. Wright flyer at the Rheims event 1909? >> >> >>> On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Gary Stevenson >>> wrote: >>> Hi All, >>> >>> Further to my earlier email, here are two images for your consideration. >>> The first might inspire you to have a look at higher definition images of >>> T-L ‘s work. >>> >>> Re the second image – a painting by Rousseau who was a contemporary of T-L >>> – what is that strange contraption that is shown in the sky? >>> >>> >>> >>> Gary >>> >>> >>> >>> From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net >>> [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Gary >>> Stevenson >>> Sent: Monday, 9 June 2014 10:32 PM >>> To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' >>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud proof fence >>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Mike, >>> >>> Awesome. Very nicely brought together. >>> >>> ** >>> >>> Loved the bit about the “stunted poor excuses for trees” I immediately >>> flashed on Henri de Toulouse- Lautrec, one of the masters of the French >>> Post- Impressionist school of painting who was also a bit that way >>> (although not a tree). >>> >>> * >>> >>> Waffling on, you are no doubt familiar with the “Mallee Scrub” . Unknown to >>> most of the world, Mallee roots are the finest/ best heat output, wood >>> fuel known to man. However I can assure you that they are “a bit” gnarly, >>> and do not split like plantation grown pine. >>> >>> >>> >>> Gary >>> >>> >>> >>> From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net >>> [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike >>> Borgelt >>> Sent: Monday, 9 June 2014 7:29 PM >>> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. >>> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud proof fence >>> >>> >>> >>> You need to understand the geography and climate of SW W.A. >>> >>> The wheatbelt is the area in the SW where the rainfall is high enough to >>> grow wheat. Check out any satellite photos of the area. The rabbit proof >>> fence is the limit of that area pretty much. I had a pal in physics at UWA >>> in the late 1960s who came from a farm just west of the fence. If they were >>> lucky they got a crop 2 out of 5 years and then the bastard emus would be >>> looking hungrily at it from the other side of the fence. >>> >>> So the fence location isn't exactly independent of the surface >>> vegetation/rainfall characteristics. >>> >>> The rain is mostly in winter apart from the odd summer thunderstorm and >>> comes from the showers following passage of cold fronts. Much of the rain >>> falls on the coastal plain and Darling range (what there is of it - Perth >>> is built on a coastal desert) and what is left goes to the wheatbelt. >>> >>> After the harvest in December the wheatbelt is nearly bone dry. Great >>> outlanding country - tell me about it. Your biggest problem, if you didn't >>> figure out where the fences/roads/houses were while still airborne is >>> figuring out where to walk to after landing. If you fly there in summer >>> you'll get good at flying in blue thermals except for the odd spectacular >>> trough day which will have very high based cu and high convection. I've >>> been to 16500 feet in blue thermals there. Much like South Australia but >>> without a large river for irrigation fed by the Great Divide. >>> >>> The dry ground and only a little bit of dry stubble left means there sure >>> as heck isn't a lot of evaporation (latent heat flux) as there isn't any >>> water in the vegetation. In the scrub the stunted poor excuses for trees >>> will however still evapo-transpire so in summer there will be more latent >>> heat flux there. In August the rains are still happening in the crop >>> growing areas with higher rainfall so that's where the latent heat flux is >>> greater than in the scrub. >>> >>> Nothing all that surprising in that paper. >>> >>> What isn't obvious is the salinity problem. Lots of salt lakes and salt >>> coming to the surface as a result of tree clearing. This has been >>> addressed since the mid 1970s with replanting and other mitigation methods. >>> >>> >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> At 06:49 PM 9/06/2014, you wrote: >>> >>> Thanks Robert, >>> >>> Just to clarify for me. >>> >>> "The latent heat flux is the movement of heat energy from the surface to >>> altitude associated with the evap
Re: [Aus-soaring] Toulouse-Lautrec/ Henri Rousseau
Hallo Peter, Ha-ha – you’ve got it! Be that as may, T-L was a master painter, and it would be nice to see some of his works on exhibition here in Australia. Photographs and digital images just do not capture the reality of the colour, detail and sheer vibrancy of the real thing. Re the 2nd image, I think that Mike B has it truly pinned as a little earlier. Google “Wright Bros time line” for further information. Re creating a new thread, just follow the aus-soaring instructions. If you are a lazy b, just change the words in the Subject Line of an existing post! Cheers, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Peter Champness Sent: Tuesday, 10 June 2014 9:02 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Toulouse-Lautrec/ Henri Rousseau Thanks Gary, For some reason the images were not easy to down load. Image 1. I take they are scub(bers). Image 2. Wright flyer at the Rheims event 1909? On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Gary Stevenson wrote: Hi All, Further to my earlier email, here are two images for your consideration. The first might inspire you to have a look at higher definition images of T-L ‘s work. Re the second image – a painting by Rousseau who was a contemporary of T-L – what is that strange contraption that is shown in the sky? Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Gary Stevenson Sent: Monday, 9 June 2014 10:32 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud proof fence Hi Mike, Awesome. Very nicely brought together. ** Loved the bit about the “stunted poor excuses for trees” I immediately flashed on Henri de Toulouse- Lautrec, one of the masters of the French Post- Impressionist school of painting who was also a bit that way (although not a tree). * Waffling on, you are no doubt familiar with the “Mallee Scrub” . Unknown to most of the world, Mallee roots are the finest/ best heat output, wood fuel known to man. However I can assure you that they are “a bit” gnarly, and do not split like plantation grown pine. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Monday, 9 June 2014 7:29 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud proof fence You need to understand the geography and climate of SW W.A. The wheatbelt is the area in the SW where the rainfall is high enough to grow wheat. Check out any satellite photos of the area. The rabbit proof fence is the limit of that area pretty much. I had a pal in physics at UWA in the late 1960s who came from a farm just west of the fence. If they were lucky they got a crop 2 out of 5 years and then the bastard emus would be looking hungrily at it from the other side of the fence. So the fence location isn't exactly independent of the surface vegetation/rainfall characteristics. The rain is mostly in winter apart from the odd summer thunderstorm and comes from the showers following passage of cold fronts. Much of the rain falls on the coastal plain and Darling range (what there is of it - Perth is built on a coastal desert) and what is left goes to the wheatbelt. After the harvest in December the wheatbelt is nearly bone dry. Great outlanding country - tell me about it. Your biggest problem, if you didn't figure out where the fences/roads/houses were while still airborne is figuring out where to walk to after landing. If you fly there in summer you'll get good at flying in blue thermals except for the odd spectacular trough day which will have very high based cu and high convection. I've been to 16500 feet in blue thermals there. Much like South Australia but without a large river for irrigation fed by the Great Divide. The dry ground and only a little bit of dry stubble left means there sure as heck isn't a lot of evaporation (latent heat flux) as there isn't any water in the vegetation. In the scrub the stunted poor excuses for trees will however still evapo-transpire so in summer there will be more latent heat flux there. In August the rains are still happening in the crop growing areas with higher rainfall so that's where the latent heat flux is greater than in the scrub. Nothing all that surprising in that paper. What isn't obvious is the salinity problem. Lots of salt lakes and salt coming to the surface as a result of tree clearing. This has been addressed since the mid 1970s with replanting and other mitigation methods. Mike At 06:49
Re: [Aus-soaring] Toulouse-Lautrec/ Henri Rousseau
How do I post a new thread? On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Peter Champness wrote: > Thanks Gary, > > For some reason the images were not easy to down load. > > Image 1. I take they are scub(bers). > > Image 2. Wright flyer at the Rheims event 1909? > > > On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Gary Stevenson > wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> Further to my earlier email, here are two images for your consideration. >> The first might inspire you to have a look at higher definition images of >> T-L ‘s work. >> >> Re the second image – a painting by Rousseau who was a contemporary of >> T-L – what is that strange contraption that is shown in the sky? >> >> >> >> Gary >> >> >> >> *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: >> aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Gary Stevenson >> *Sent:* Monday, 9 June 2014 10:32 PM >> *To:* 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' >> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud proof fence >> >> >> >> Hi Mike, >> >> Awesome. Very nicely brought together. >> >> ** >> >> Loved the bit about the “stunted poor excuses for trees” I immediately >> flashed on Henri de Toulouse- Lautrec, one of the masters of the French >> Post- Impressionist school of painting who was also a bit that way >> (although not a tree). >> >> * >> >> Waffling on, you are no doubt familiar with the “Mallee Scrub” . Unknown >> to most of the world, Mallee roots are the finest/ best heat output, wood >> fuel known to man. However I can assure you that they are “a bit” gnarly, >> and do not split like plantation grown pine. >> >> >> >> Gary >> >> >> >> *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: >> aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Mike Borgelt >> *Sent:* Monday, 9 June 2014 7:29 PM >> *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. >> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud proof fence >> >> >> >> You need to understand the geography and climate of SW W.A. >> >> The wheatbelt is the area in the SW where the rainfall is high enough to >> grow wheat. Check out any satellite photos of the area. The rabbit proof >> fence is the limit of that area pretty much. I had a pal in physics at UWA >> in the late 1960s who came from a farm just west of the fence. If they were >> lucky they got a crop 2 out of 5 years and then the bastard emus would be >> looking hungrily at it from the other side of the fence. >> >> So the fence location isn't exactly independent of the surface >> vegetation/rainfall characteristics. >> >> The rain is mostly in winter apart from the odd summer thunderstorm and >> comes from the showers following passage of cold fronts. Much of the rain >> falls on the coastal plain and Darling range (what there is of it - Perth >> is built on a coastal desert) and what is left goes to the wheatbelt. >> >> After the harvest in December the wheatbelt is nearly bone dry. Great >> outlanding country - tell me about it. Your biggest problem, if you didn't >> figure out where the fences/roads/houses were while still airborne is >> figuring out where to walk to after landing. If you fly there in summer >> you'll get good at flying in blue thermals except for the odd spectacular >> trough day which will have very high based cu and high convection. I've >> been to 16500 feet in blue thermals there. Much like South Australia but >> without a large river for irrigation fed by the Great Divide. >> >> The dry ground and only a little bit of dry stubble left means there sure >> as heck isn't a lot of evaporation (latent heat flux) as there isn't any >> water in the vegetation. In the scrub the stunted poor excuses for trees >> will however still evapo-transpire so in summer there will be more latent >> heat flux there. In August the rains are still happening in the crop >> growing areas with higher rainfall so that's where the latent heat flux is >> greater than in the scrub. >> >> Nothing all that surprising in that paper. >> >> What isn't obvious is the salinity problem. Lots of salt lakes and salt >> coming to the surface as a result of tree clearing. This has been >> addressed since the mid 1970s with replanting and other mitigation methods. >> >> >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> At 06:49 PM 9/06/2014, you wrote: >> >> Thanks Robert, >> >> Just to clarify for me. >> >> "The latent heat flux is the movement of heat energy from the surface >> to altitude associated with the evaporation of water at the surface and its >> condensation at altitude in clouds." >> >>  I take it that, Latent heat flux is one of the effects which generates >> thermals. The other is sensible heat ie ground gets hot, transfers heat >> to near surface air by conduction. Air then rises (convection). >> >> Do you have any thoughts on why the natural vegetation (we used to call >> it scrub) ha
Re: [Aus-soaring] Toulouse-Lautrec/ Henri Rousseau
Thanks Gary, For some reason the images were not easy to down load. Image 1. I take they are scub(bers). Image 2. Wright flyer at the Rheims event 1909? On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Gary Stevenson wrote: > Hi All, > > Further to my earlier email, here are two images for your consideration. > The first might inspire you to have a look at higher definition images of > T-L ‘s work. > > Re the second image – a painting by Rousseau who was a contemporary of T-L > – what is that strange contraption that is shown in the sky? > > > > Gary > > > > *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: > aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Gary Stevenson > *Sent:* Monday, 9 June 2014 10:32 PM > *To:* 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' > *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud proof fence > > > > Hi Mike, > > Awesome. Very nicely brought together. > > ** > > Loved the bit about the “stunted poor excuses for trees” I immediately > flashed on Henri de Toulouse- Lautrec, one of the masters of the French > Post- Impressionist school of painting who was also a bit that way > (although not a tree). > > * > > Waffling on, you are no doubt familiar with the “Mallee Scrub” . Unknown > to most of the world, Mallee roots are the finest/ best heat output, wood > fuel known to man. However I can assure you that they are “a bit” gnarly, > and do not split like plantation grown pine. > > > > Gary > > > > *From:* aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto: > aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] *On Behalf Of *Mike Borgelt > *Sent:* Monday, 9 June 2014 7:29 PM > *To:* Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] Cloud proof fence > > > > You need to understand the geography and climate of SW W.A. > > The wheatbelt is the area in the SW where the rainfall is high enough to > grow wheat. Check out any satellite photos of the area. The rabbit proof > fence is the limit of that area pretty much. I had a pal in physics at UWA > in the late 1960s who came from a farm just west of the fence. If they were > lucky they got a crop 2 out of 5 years and then the bastard emus would be > looking hungrily at it from the other side of the fence. > > So the fence location isn't exactly independent of the surface > vegetation/rainfall characteristics. > > The rain is mostly in winter apart from the odd summer thunderstorm and > comes from the showers following passage of cold fronts. Much of the rain > falls on the coastal plain and Darling range (what there is of it - Perth > is built on a coastal desert) and what is left goes to the wheatbelt. > > After the harvest in December the wheatbelt is nearly bone dry. Great > outlanding country - tell me about it. Your biggest problem, if you didn't > figure out where the fences/roads/houses were while still airborne is > figuring out where to walk to after landing. If you fly there in summer > you'll get good at flying in blue thermals except for the odd spectacular > trough day which will have very high based cu and high convection. I've > been to 16500 feet in blue thermals there. Much like South Australia but > without a large river for irrigation fed by the Great Divide. > > The dry ground and only a little bit of dry stubble left means there sure > as heck isn't a lot of evaporation (latent heat flux) as there isn't any > water in the vegetation. In the scrub the stunted poor excuses for trees > will however still evapo-transpire so in summer there will be more latent > heat flux there. In August the rains are still happening in the crop > growing areas with higher rainfall so that's where the latent heat flux is > greater than in the scrub. > > Nothing all that surprising in that paper. > > What isn't obvious is the salinity problem. Lots of salt lakes and salt > coming to the surface as a result of tree clearing. This has been > addressed since the mid 1970s with replanting and other mitigation methods. > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > At 06:49 PM 9/06/2014, you wrote: > > Thanks Robert, > > Just to clarify for me. > > "The latent heat flux is the movement of heat energy from the surface to > altitude associated with the evaporation of water at the surface and its > condensation at altitude in clouds." > >  I take it that, Latent heat flux is one of the effects which generates > thermals. The other is sensible heat ie ground gets hot, transfers heat > to near surface air by conduction. Air then rises (convection). > > Do you have any thoughts on why the natural vegetation (we used to call it > scrub) has a strong bias to Latent Heat Flux in December but not in August? > > > On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Robert Hart wrote: > > On 08-Jun-14 08:44, Peter Champness wrote: > > That seems right. They should have asked glider pi
Re: [Aus-soaring] Toulouse-Lautrec/ Henri Rousseau
>>yeah, a footnote that says they were FIRST. First to what? D On 10/06/2014, Mike Borgelt wrote: > yeah, a footnote that says they were FIRST. > > Mike > > > > > firstAt 11:13 AM 10/06/2014, you wrote: >> >>> they blew everybody away with their mastery and expertise. >> >>And then they became a footnote to aviation history. >> >>The Wrights certainly understood the need for banking and coordinated >>turns which for some reason the French had not but the French cottoned >>on very fast and left the Wrights in the dust, or rather in the >>courts. >> >>Interestingly, by 1910 or thereabouts, almost all aviation fatalities >>were in Wright aircraft, including most of their exhibition team. >> >>D >>___ >>Aus-soaring mailing list >>Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net >>To check or change subscription details, visit: >>http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring > instrumentation since 1978 > www.borgeltinstruments.com > tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 > mob: 042835 5784: int+61-42835 5784 > P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Toulouse-Lautrec/ Henri Rousseau
yeah, a footnote that says they were FIRST. Mike firstAt 11:13 AM 10/06/2014, you wrote: >>> they blew everybody away with their mastery and expertise. And then they became a footnote to aviation history. The Wrights certainly understood the need for banking and coordinated turns which for some reason the French had not but the French cottoned on very fast and left the Wrights in the dust, or rather in the courts. Interestingly, by 1910 or thereabouts, almost all aviation fatalities were in Wright aircraft, including most of their exhibition team. D ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784: int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Toulouse-Lautrec/ Henri Rousseau
>>> they blew everybody away with their mastery and expertise. And then they became a footnote to aviation history. The Wrights certainly understood the need for banking and coordinated turns which for some reason the French had not but the French cottoned on very fast and left the Wrights in the dust, or rather in the courts. Interestingly, by 1910 or thereabouts, almost all aviation fatalities were in Wright aircraft, including most of their exhibition team. D ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Toulouse-Lautrec/ Henri Rousseau
At 11:33 PM 9/06/2014, you wrote: Hi All, Further to my earlier email, here are two images for your consideration. The first might inspire you to have a look at higher definition images of T-L s work. Re the second image a painting by Rousseau who was a contemporary of T-L what is that strange contraption that is shown in the sky? Gary A Wright Flyer. 1908 model. When the Wrights went to France in 1908 they blew everybody away with their mastery and expertise. Mike Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784: int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
