Re: [Ayatana] Reliability: Realtime Experience for Maverick

[Sohail Mirza]

I just performed the Meerkat install on a reasonably powerful laptop today,
for the first time.

There were a number of times during the install that the Location selection
and subsequent dialogues became completely unresponsive, severely impacting
the user experience during the install.  This is made all the more apparent
because it seems that the idea is to have the user perform those steps
concurrent to the install, thus saving them time spent on the installation.
It doesn't feel like time saved when you're waiting for a dialogue or button
press.  The "set it and forget it" installation in Lucid was a superior user
experience.

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 9:25 PM, Frederik Nnaji wrote:

> Thanks for your thoughts, this is a low hanging fruit in my personal
> opinion, that's how it caught my attention.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 15:25, Sohail Mirza  wrote:
>
>> Perhaps better than replacing the text with a throbber would be to show
>> both side-by-side.  Replacing the text would likely lead to confusion as to
>> what action was originally invoked, especially in circumstances where
>> further feedback is delayed.  :)
>
>
> Luke was suggesting replacing the text temporarily only..
>
>  On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 7:37 AM, Luke Benstead  wrote:
>>
>>>  It would be nice if every button press system wide showed some kind of
>>> indication that the click was received.
>>
>>
> yes, i can second that, an interface element that doesn't react instantly
> feels dead.
>



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Re: [Ayatana] Restart Required

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 14:57, Mark Shuttleworth  wrote:

>  On 09/09/10 13:20, Vishnoo wrote:
> > I dont think there is a bug regarding that color change either.. Someone
> > should first file the bug. :)
>
> Done at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/indicator-session/+bug/634003
>

Thanks, SABDFL ;)
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Re: [Ayatana] Reliability: Realtime Experience for Maverick

[Frederik Nnaji]

Thanks for your thoughts, this is a low hanging fruit in my personal
opinion, that's how it caught my attention.

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 15:25, Sohail Mirza  wrote:

> Perhaps better than replacing the text with a throbber would be to show
> both side-by-side.  Replacing the text would likely lead to confusion as to
> what action was originally invoked, especially in circumstances where
> further feedback is delayed.  :)


Luke was suggesting replacing the text temporarily only..

On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 7:37 AM, Luke Benstead  wrote:
>
>>  It would be nice if every button press system wide showed some kind of
>> indication that the click was received.
>
>
yes, i can second that, an interface element that doesn't react instantly
feels dead.
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Re: [Ayatana] Reliability: Realtime Experience for Maverick

[Sohail Mirza]

Perhaps better than replacing the text with a throbber would be to show both
side-by-side.  Replacing the text would likely lead to confusion as to what
action was originally invoked, especially in circumstances where further
feedback is delayed.  :)


On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 7:37 AM, Luke Benstead  wrote:

> This is not just isolated to the installer. It would be nice if every
> button press system wide showed some kind of indication that the click was
> received. What might be nice is if the button text disappeared and a little
> circular progress indicator showed for a second or two before being replaced
> back with the button text again (a cross fade to the spinner, and back to
> text would look pretty cool actually).
>
> Luke.
>
> On 9 September 2010 12:28, Frederik Nnaji wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> after hesitating for quite some time now, i installed Maverick on my
>> production machines, and it is running like a charm!
>> Thanks to the everybody @ Canonical for all the great work, thanks to the
>> entire community for making this possible in the first place ;)
>>
>> Reliability:
>> As in the physical universe, not all interaction objects are realiable.
>> Yet, when a process fails to start, i know immediately that something is
>> wrong.
>> The most unlikely thing to happen is that i press a button or switch, only
>> to be left guessing for a quarter of a minute, whether anything has been
>> invoked, activated or started by my action.
>>
>>
>> http://lh6.ggpht.com/_1QSDkzYY2vc/TH7Lkl4Jd-I/Byc/ttFY5lOV3cA/ubuntu-10.10-screenshot.png
>> and
>>
>> http://lh4.ggpht.com/_1QSDkzYY2vc/TH7Lk9DqKYI/Byk/w27hJZiRIII/ubuntu-10.10-installer2.png
>> show dialogs containing "Forward" buttons in the installation dialog,
>> which show no feedback upon click.
>>
>> The Forward button should react in realtime when clicked: at the moment
>> there is no reaction for about 10-20 seconds.
>> This is insufficient, e.g. because:
>> * user doesn't know if the button was clicked or not
>> * user doesn't know if the click started anything or not
>> * user might click again, to make sure (confirming Forward on the next
>> page accidentally)
>> * user is irritated and becomes impatient after the instant interaction
>> feedback time (~ 0 - 1 sec) is over
>>
>> Realtime Interaction is the impression of live interaction with a system.
>> This impression is a model of what we experience as physical reality, it is
>> easy to model after that symbolically.
>> Every interaction, input or gesture creates ripples on the surface of the
>> GUI, just like a finger that touches a "surface" indents the surface or
>> changes its state.
>>
>> The simplest way of solving the "Forward" button problem here, is to add
>> another frame/state to the forward button, i.e. "pressed".
>>
>> thoughts?
>>
>>
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>>
>
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>


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Re: [Ayatana] Restart Required

[Mark Shuttleworth]

 On 09/09/10 13:20, Vishnoo wrote:
> I dont think there is a bug regarding that color change either.. Someone
> should first file the bug. :)

Done at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/indicator-session/+bug/634003



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Re: [Ayatana] Restart Required

[Vishnoo]

On Thu, 2010-09-09 at 13:49 +0200, Frederik Nnaji wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 21:59, Mark Shuttleworth
> >  wrote:
> >  On 30/07/10 20:57, Vishnoo wrote:
> > > Right , just wanted to mention that we dont need
> > to use punctuations
> > > or brackets in menus:
> > > "Restart To Complete Update..."
> > > [ or s/complete/finish or any synonym ]
> > 
> > 
> > Yes, that would fit nicely :-)
> > 
> > 
> > perhaps in red, too?
> 
> 
> Certainly.
> 
> 
> It's still not red..
> Has a decision been reached or revoked concerning this?

I dont think anyone is working on that...
All I did was rename the menu item with new wording, since it was
easy!  ;p

I dont think there is a bug regarding that color change either.. Someone
should first file the bug. :)

-- 
Cheers,
Vish


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Re: [Ayatana] Restart Required

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 04:08, Mark Shuttleworth  wrote:

>  On 31/07/10 21:57, Frederik Nnaji wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 21:59, Mark Shuttleworth  wrote:
>
>>  On 30/07/10 20:57, Vishnoo wrote:
>> > Right , just wanted to mention that we dont need to use punctuations
>> > or brackets in menus:
>> > "Restart To Complete Update..."
>> > [ or s/complete/finish or any synonym ]
>>
>>  Yes, that would fit nicely :-)
>>
>
>  perhaps in red, too?
>
>
> Certainly.
>

It's still not red..
Has a decision been reached or revoked concerning this?
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Re: [Ayatana] Reliability: Realtime Experience for Maverick

[Luke Benstead]

This is not just isolated to the installer. It would be nice if every button
press system wide showed some kind of indication that the click was
received. What might be nice is if the button text disappeared and a little
circular progress indicator showed for a second or two before being replaced
back with the button text again (a cross fade to the spinner, and back to
text would look pretty cool actually).

Luke.

On 9 September 2010 12:28, Frederik Nnaji  wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> after hesitating for quite some time now, i installed Maverick on my
> production machines, and it is running like a charm!
> Thanks to the everybody @ Canonical for all the great work, thanks to the
> entire community for making this possible in the first place ;)
>
> Reliability:
> As in the physical universe, not all interaction objects are realiable.
> Yet, when a process fails to start, i know immediately that something is
> wrong.
> The most unlikely thing to happen is that i press a button or switch, only
> to be left guessing for a quarter of a minute, whether anything has been
> invoked, activated or started by my action.
>
>
> http://lh6.ggpht.com/_1QSDkzYY2vc/TH7Lkl4Jd-I/Byc/ttFY5lOV3cA/ubuntu-10.10-screenshot.png
> and
>
> http://lh4.ggpht.com/_1QSDkzYY2vc/TH7Lk9DqKYI/Byk/w27hJZiRIII/ubuntu-10.10-installer2.png
> show dialogs containing "Forward" buttons in the installation dialog, which
> show no feedback upon click.
>
> The Forward button should react in realtime when clicked: at the moment
> there is no reaction for about 10-20 seconds.
> This is insufficient, e.g. because:
> * user doesn't know if the button was clicked or not
> * user doesn't know if the click started anything or not
> * user might click again, to make sure (confirming Forward on the next page
> accidentally)
> * user is irritated and becomes impatient after the instant interaction
> feedback time (~ 0 - 1 sec) is over
>
> Realtime Interaction is the impression of live interaction with a system.
> This impression is a model of what we experience as physical reality, it is
> easy to model after that symbolically.
> Every interaction, input or gesture creates ripples on the surface of the
> GUI, just like a finger that touches a "surface" indents the surface or
> changes its state.
>
> The simplest way of solving the "Forward" button problem here, is to add
> another frame/state to the forward button, i.e. "pressed".
>
> thoughts?
>
>
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>
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[Ayatana] Reliability: Realtime Experience for Maverick

[Frederik Nnaji]

Dear all,

after hesitating for quite some time now, i installed Maverick on my
production machines, and it is running like a charm!
Thanks to the everybody @ Canonical for all the great work, thanks to the
entire community for making this possible in the first place ;)

Reliability:
As in the physical universe, not all interaction objects are realiable.
Yet, when a process fails to start, i know immediately that something is
wrong.
The most unlikely thing to happen is that i press a button or switch, only
to be left guessing for a quarter of a minute, whether anything has been
invoked, activated or started by my action.

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_1QSDkzYY2vc/TH7Lkl4Jd-I/Byc/ttFY5lOV3cA/ubuntu-10.10-screenshot.png
and
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_1QSDkzYY2vc/TH7Lk9DqKYI/Byk/w27hJZiRIII/ubuntu-10.10-installer2.png
show dialogs containing "Forward" buttons in the installation dialog, which
show no feedback upon click.

The Forward button should react in realtime when clicked: at the moment
there is no reaction for about 10-20 seconds.
This is insufficient, e.g. because:
* user doesn't know if the button was clicked or not
* user doesn't know if the click started anything or not
* user might click again, to make sure (confirming Forward on the next page
accidentally)
* user is irritated and becomes impatient after the instant interaction
feedback time (~ 0 - 1 sec) is over

Realtime Interaction is the impression of live interaction with a system.
This impression is a model of what we experience as physical reality, it is
easy to model after that symbolically.
Every interaction, input or gesture creates ripples on the surface of the
GUI, just like a finger that touches a "surface" indents the surface or
changes its state.

The simplest way of solving the "Forward" button problem here, is to add
another frame/state to the forward button, i.e. "pressed".

thoughts?
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Re: [Ayatana] Presence via Me Menu

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 03:53, Apoorva Sharma  wrote:

>
> To me, insensitive items are very dangerous. The only use case should be
> for expressing functionality that has been disabled by a user action, that
> is, insensitive items should appear to the user without the user making them
> so. Otherwise, the user is only confused about how the functionality will be
> enabled, or wonder why space is being wasted by this unnecessary item. Items
> that have no functionality until the user enables them should simply not be
> shown until enabled.
>

yeah, insensitive items have their disadvantages.
In this particular case, the advantage is, that you know where to find them,
and you can verify that, even when they are disabled. A central point for
broadcasting about "Me", setting the Presence state for "Me" and changing
information and account settings for "Me" is a viable concept, that can help
the novice user find her way through Ubuntu's DE.


> For the MeMenu, I think that there should be a button to turn on chat, and
> only when turned on should the state changing buttons be shown. With this
> system, showing "offline" is unnecessary, because that would simply mean
> turning chat off, and thus the on/off switch would provide the
> functionality.
>

if the ON/OFF switch you are proposing (i like) were to be positioned above
the insensitive state items, it would be easy to discover how Presence items
and "Chat ON/OFF" relate..
In that case, it wouldn't be absolutely necessary to hide the Presence
items, when Chat is off.
Personally, i can imagine both cases to be cool..
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Re: [Ayatana] Presence via Me Menu

[Frederik Nnaji]

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 13:17, Matthew Paul Thomas  wrote:

>  Frederik Nnaji wrote on 08/09/10 02:12:
> >
> > On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 12:41, Matthew Paul Thomas  >...
> >> Frederik Nnaji wrote on 05/09/10 12:22:
> >...
> >>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeMenu#Instant%20messaging%20statuses doesn't
> >>> specify MeMenu behaviour for that case, if you check "Use Cases".
> >>>...
> >>
> >> It does specify the behavior, and it has since March. "Each item
> >> should be sensitive only if at least one of the accounts you have set
> >> up in Empathy supports that status, regardless of whether Empathy is
> >> currently running."
> >
> > yes, i simply skipped this constraint, since it doesn't specify how the
> > controls would get me out of "offline". That sort of behaviour is not
> > being addressed, intentionally not, as i am beginning to understand..
>
> The two test cases should have made it clear: both of them fail if
> the status items are disabled when you're offline. Anyway, I've
> clarified the prose now.
> 
>

Thanks a lot, MPT, it is clearer now ;)
Now remains the question, why in the implementation the Presence part of the
MeMenu is "disabled" when all Empathy-configured accounts are "offline"..
I was hoping Mission Control 5 in Telepathy would make it possible to change
back to "online", "away" or "busy", even when Empathy says my accounts are
"offline".
Another thing is, that i'm being logged out, not sent offline. My computer
is still online, it's just that IM accounts are being logged out.
This is why i don't understand the use case of "offline", if all it does is
actually "log out".

If offline was to be a state of Presence, it would be better if i could
alternate between "offline" and the other states of Presence via the MeMenu
directly.
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