Re: [Ayatana] Usability - Useless effect when clicking an icon (Unity)

2010-12-09 Thread frederik.nn...@gmail.com
On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 16:01, Peterson Silva peterson@gmail.com wrote:

 Recently I've posted this bug at Launchpad:

 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/686822

 So the thing is, if you have only one instance of an active window and you
 click its icon in the Launcher, the effect is useless. Users coming from
 Windows 7 (or any other version of it for that matter) or Mac OS will expect
 the application to minimize; instead, it will just float. It is useless and
 counter-intuitive already.

 On the other hand, when there are multiple windows of the same app, the
 effect is very cool and useful;


+1

and well, i miss my SUPER+W !!!
If Scale aka Expose becomes so central, i would strongly recommend to
associate the scale addon features:
 * secondary click to zoom in
 * middle click to close

especially the unread messages from the Messaging Menu shouldn't get
acknowledged, before i haven't seen them at full scale.
Seeing the window, scaled down on a Netbook 10 display in Exposé, surely
doesn't validate removing a message indicator from the Messaging Menu as
seen.
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[Ayatana] Allowing windows to move past launchers

2010-12-09 Thread Sam Spilsbury
Hi,

I was doing some work on the snap windows plugin for compiz and I was
wondering if it is the correct behaviour design wise to allow windows
to move underneath the launcher and the panel. Currently we have it so
that windows snap to the launcher but the user can move the window
past the launcher if they move hard enough but I was wondering if we
should even allow windows to move past these panels in the first
place.

Let me know what you all think.

Cheers
-- 
Sam Spilsbury

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Re: [Ayatana] Allowing windows to move past launchers

2010-12-09 Thread Didier Roche
Le jeudi 09 décembre 2010 à 18:55 +0800, Sam Spilsbury a écrit :
 Hi,
 
 I was doing some work on the snap windows plugin for compiz and I was
 wondering if it is the correct behaviour design wise to allow windows
 to move underneath the launcher and the panel. Currently we have it so
 that windows snap to the launcher but the user can move the window
 past the launcher if they move hard enough but I was wondering if we
 should even allow windows to move past these panels in the first
 place.
 
 Let me know what you all think.

We should just perhaps agree on the snap value? I mean, we want to avoid
false positive on intellihide but still enabling people to have
intellihide :)

Cheers
Didier


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Re: [Ayatana] Allowing windows to move past launchers

2010-12-09 Thread Mark Shuttleworth
On 09/12/10 10:59, Didier Roche wrote:
 Le jeudi 09 décembre 2010 à 18:55 +0800, Sam Spilsbury a écrit :
 Hi,

 I was doing some work on the snap windows plugin for compiz and I was
 wondering if it is the correct behaviour design wise to allow windows
 to move underneath the launcher and the panel. Currently we have it so
 that windows snap to the launcher but the user can move the window
 past the launcher if they move hard enough but I was wondering if we
 should even allow windows to move past these panels in the first
 place.

 Let me know what you all think.
 We should just perhaps agree on the snap value? I mean, we want to avoid
 false positive on intellihide but still enabling people to have
 intellihide :)

In the intellihide, moving the window against the launcher should kick
the launcher out immediately, as it currently does. I think Sam's
referring more to the case where the launcher is locked in place, not
intellihide.

Mark



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Re: [Ayatana] progress window chrome

2010-12-09 Thread Matthew Paul Thomas
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote on 08/12/10 21:24:

 On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 20:57, Roth Robert evf...@gmail.com
...
 On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Matthew Paul Thomas
...
 Yes. It is a bug in the HIG that it recommends repeating title bar
 text as primary text in progress windows.

 The sentence that recommended repeating the title bar text as
 primary text in progress windows was removed since 2.30... you can
 still see it in 2.28, but it does not appear since 2.30 anymore. I
 guess that the screenshot was not updated.
 
 whow, such historical detail ;)

Oh, it's even worse than that. The person who removed it was ... me.
http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2010-March/msg00021.html

I just forgot yesterday that I'd done it.

 Now let's hope that the 3.0 will rid us of the necessity of talking
 about how many titles a progress window needs..

Or, if hoping isn't your style, you could report bugs and make patches
for the programs (like Synaptic) that currently repeat titles.

 In reality, even the current stable HIG recommends against using
 windows for the indication of progress,

That's a misleading summary. The guidelines recommend against using
progress windows in specific cases -- where the task prevents you from
doing anything in an existing window (in which case you should show
progress in that existing window), or where the task will take only a
few seconds. There are still many cases where progress windows are
appropriate.

 which itself leads to the
 conclusion that displaying progress within an extra window is an
 improper way of presenting that kind of data.

It doesn't really.

- -- 
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
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Re: [Ayatana] Usability - Useless effect when clicking an icon (Unity)

2010-12-09 Thread Matthew Paul Thomas
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Peterson Silva wrote on 08/12/10 15:01:
...
 So the thing is, if you have only one instance of an active window and
 you click its icon in the Launcher, the effect is useless. Users coming
 from Windows 7 (or any other version of it for that matter) or Mac OS
 will expect the application to minimize;

That's what it does in Windows 7, for some applications but not others:
for example, it works for Windows Explorer, but not for Windows Backup.

It's not what it does in Mac OS X, at all: clicking the launcher of a
running application always brings all its windows to the front, and if
they already are, it does nothing.

...
 So here's what we could do, then: to have different effects based on
 the windows opened, but with a visual hint so the user knows what to
 expect (and can easily understand the point of the behaviour). I'm not
 currently using Unity, but as far as I remember, there's no visual hint
 as to whether or not there are multiple instances of a window opened.
 We could put a small emblem over the program icon in the launcher (like
 in one of its corners) with a number indicating the number of windows.
...

Unity will soon have something very much like this.

- -- 
Matthew Paul Thomas
http://mpt.net.nz/
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Re: [Ayatana] Allowing windows to move past launchers

2010-12-09 Thread Sam Spilsbury
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 1:33 AM, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com wrote:
 On 09/12/10 10:59, Didier Roche wrote:
 Le jeudi 09 décembre 2010 à 18:55 +0800, Sam Spilsbury a écrit :
 Hi,

 I was doing some work on the snap windows plugin for compiz and I was
 wondering if it is the correct behaviour design wise to allow windows
 to move underneath the launcher and the panel. Currently we have it so
 that windows snap to the launcher but the user can move the window
 past the launcher if they move hard enough but I was wondering if we
 should even allow windows to move past these panels in the first
 place.

 Let me know what you all think.
 We should just perhaps agree on the snap value? I mean, we want to avoid
 false positive on intellihide but still enabling people to have
 intellihide :)

 In the intellihide, moving the window against the launcher should kick
 the launcher out immediately, as it currently does. I think Sam's
 referring more to the case where the launcher is locked in place, not
 intellihide.

I was thinking something like this (warning: coder's POV, it gets a
bit technical).

Bit of lingo here since I tend to use it regularly:
- strut: A property called _NET_WM_STRUT_PARTIAL that docks,
launchers, etc place on windows to reserve an area of the screen.
Windows don't get placed there and they cannot maximize over it.
- placement: where the window is positioned on open.


My idea was this:

1) On the intellihide case:

- We don't set the strut property, which means that windows can
implicitly get placed underneath the launcher (this can be overridden
in the unityshell plugin)
- On maximisation the launcher is going to go away anyway, since the
window will be covering it
- When moving a window near the launcher, if it goes close then the
launcher will go away (intellihide)
- When resizing a window, if the resize border touches the launcher,
it goes away, easy

2) On the fixed launcher case:

- We set the strut property, so no implicit incorrect placement
- On maximization the window does not cover the launcher
- Windows cannot be resized underneath the launcher
- Windows cannot be moved underneath the launcher.

The reason for the fourth one is because we have the window buttons on
the left - we do not want to have to obscure them  in the case that we
move a window.


 Mark


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Re: [Ayatana] Allowing windows to move past launchers

2010-12-09 Thread Mark Shuttleworth
On 09/12/10 17:43, Sam Spilsbury wrote:
 My idea was this:

 1) On the intellihide case:
 [...]
 - When resizing a window, if the resize border touches the launcher,
 it goes away, easy

I'd like to see a proximity push in this case. When the window is
brought close to the launcher, we start to push the launcher away.
Say, when the edge of the window is 10px from the launcher, we start to
move the launcher 1px for each 2px it approaches. When the window gets
to the point where it would have touched the launcher, the launcher goes
away.

I think this would feel a little more organic and real than the current
insta-trigger. The px values might best be shared with the notify-osd
proximity-effect fade boundary too.

 2) On the fixed launcher case:

 - We set the strut property, so no implicit incorrect placement
 - On maximization the window does not cover the launcher
 - Windows cannot be resized underneath the launcher
 - Windows cannot be moved underneath the launcher.

 The reason for the fourth one is because we have the window buttons on
 the left - we do not want to have to obscure them  in the case that we
 move a window.

Let's do some testing with a less rigid interpretation - allow the
window to be resized or moved so its left edge is under the launcher,
but make sure it encounters some resistance when it touches, before
pushing through under the launcher.

Mark



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Re: [Ayatana] Allowing windows to move past launchers

2010-12-09 Thread Sam Spilsbury
On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 2:14 AM, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com wrote:
 On 09/12/10 17:43, Sam Spilsbury wrote:
 My idea was this:

 1) On the intellihide case:
 [...]
 - When resizing a window, if the resize border touches the launcher,
 it goes away, easy

 I'd like to see a proximity push in this case. When the window is
 brought close to the launcher, we start to push the launcher away.
 Say, when the edge of the window is 10px from the launcher, we start to
 move the launcher 1px for each 2px it approaches. When the window gets
 to the point where it would have touched the launcher, the launcher goes
 away.


This is easy to implement in compiz.

 I think this would feel a little more organic and real than the current
 insta-trigger. The px values might best be shared with the notify-osd
 proximity-effect fade boundary too.

 2) On the fixed launcher case:

 - We set the strut property, so no implicit incorrect placement
 - On maximization the window does not cover the launcher
 - Windows cannot be resized underneath the launcher
 - Windows cannot be moved underneath the launcher.

 The reason for the fourth one is because we have the window buttons on
 the left - we do not want to have to obscure them  in the case that we
 move a window.

 Let's do some testing with a less rigid interpretation - allow the
 window to be resized or moved so its left edge is under the launcher,
 but make sure it encounters some resistance when it touches, before
 pushing through under the launcher.


Right. I'll look into implementing edge resistance for resize as well
in the snap plugin

 Mark





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Re: [Ayatana] Allowing windows to move past launchers

2010-12-09 Thread Jason Smith
Lovely concept. I think it would make positioning windows near the
launcher less frustrating.

On Thu, 2010-12-09 at 18:14 +, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
 On 09/12/10 17:43, Sam Spilsbury wrote:
  My idea was this:
 
  1) On the intellihide case:
  [...]
  - When resizing a window, if the resize border touches the launcher,
  it goes away, easy
 
 I'd like to see a proximity push in this case. When the window is
 brought close to the launcher, we start to push the launcher away.
 Say, when the edge of the window is 10px from the launcher, we start to
 move the launcher 1px for each 2px it approaches. When the window gets
 to the point where it would have touched the launcher, the launcher goes
 away.
 
 I think this would feel a little more organic and real than the current
 insta-trigger. The px values might best be shared with the notify-osd
 proximity-effect fade boundary too.
 
  2) On the fixed launcher case:
 
  - We set the strut property, so no implicit incorrect placement
  - On maximization the window does not cover the launcher
  - Windows cannot be resized underneath the launcher
  - Windows cannot be moved underneath the launcher.
 
  The reason for the fourth one is because we have the window buttons on
  the left - we do not want to have to obscure them  in the case that we
  move a window.
 
 Let's do some testing with a less rigid interpretation - allow the
 window to be resized or moved so its left edge is under the launcher,
 but make sure it encounters some resistance when it touches, before
 pushing through under the launcher.
 
 Mark
 

-- 
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GNOME Developer
Canonical USA Inc.
T. +1.248.756.6266 | jason.sm...@canonical.com
Ubuntu - Linux for human beings | www.ubuntu.com


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Re: [Ayatana] Seeking feedback on professional video import UX design

2010-12-09 Thread Jason DeRose
Frederik,

On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 3:53 AM, frederik.nn...@gmail.com
frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Jason,

 well, this is what i've been waiting for all along:
 professional post production software for Ubuntu!

Music to my ears. :)

For anyone who missed earlier emails, discussion is about this pro
file import UX design:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AyatanaDmediaLovefest

 On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 19:33, Jason DeRose jder...@novacut.com wrote:

 I didn't make it clear, but in my scenario there will very likely be a
 person editing at the workstation.

 Being a devoted AVID user (audio), I'm well aware of the various zombie
 states one can assume, operating a digital workstation for the better part
 of the day..

Nice. We haven't received as much feedback yet from AVID user (more
FCP), nor from pro audio users, so we really appreciate your thoughts
on any of this.

In your pro audio work, are you typically importing from cards, or
recording directly to your workstation?  We need to support both, but
right now we're trying to make the most common HDSLR hardware setup
work very smoothly... which pretty much means recording on a Zoom H4n
or similar, importing from SD cards.

Out of curiosity, have you used any of AVID's Media Asset Management
software?  If so, what do you think of it, any features stand out as
especially worthwhile?

 When someone is there editing, I think NotifyOSD strikes a wonderful
 balance between reliably capturing the user's attention yet not
 distracting them.  It's all because the notifications are
 non-interactive.  They're strangely soothing, IHMO.  (Mad props to
 those who designed them so well.)

 I can only begin to imagine the benefits of my ProTools being integrated
 into its hosting DE for once.. that would change everything! Notify OSD and
 AppIndicators provide such an easy way of integrating one's professional
 software into the Desktop Environment seamlessly.

That's my thinking... why shouldn't creative professionals have some
first-class DE features just for them?

IHMO, there is a *huge* opportunity right now to bring creative
professionals to Ubuntu, especially in the big-data, compute-intensive
areas of pro video and audio.  Like what already has happened with
super computing, I think Linux will become the preferred platform for
creative professionals.  Hollywood special effects and 3d animation
have been done almost exclusively on Linux for some time, and from
talking to a friend that works in the industry, production shops are
foaming at the mouth to move to a *fully* Linux-based solution... they
just need a suitable video editor, suitable Media Asset Management.

I personally think Apple sees the writing on the wall already... I
think there is clear evidence that Apple isn't making further serious
investment in its pro content creation software.  It's all about iOS
and content consumption.  And that has opened the door for Ubuntu to
provide a new home for a lot of creative professionals.


 All the same, it would be a small effort to try both approaches, get
 feedback from the users.  If you ever have a mockup of what you had in
 mind for said window, I'd love to see it.

 Menus are condensed interfaces, they offer the most frequently used options
 of an otherwise more comprehensive interface for rapid interaction. In a
 similar way, as in Ayatana Indicator Menus, they can also offer the most
 recent and current event/process/progress/item in a given activity, e.g. a
 conversation, a message or a completed transfer.

 I think it is always easy to see a menu as a proxy to the more comprehensive
 main window of the same respective project.
 Only that the menu will give back focus to the thing you were working on
 without the disturbing requirements of window management.

 I know this is a very specialized use case and it might seem like I'm
 splitting hairs, but it's also a use case where small improvements can
 make a big difference to the user.

 I can confirm that.
 When only a single keyboard command changes, it can have a severe effect on
 how usable my workstation is!
 Imagine.. you sit behind that workstation for a dozen of hours on many a
 day, doing the same thing over and over again, how terrible would it be, to
 run into a logical regression in the UI design.

 Thanks again for your input!  I'll add your suggestion to the wiki page.

 keep me posted as the software becomes available for testing, i for one
 can't wait to get professional post production work done in desktop Linux.

So the features described in this UX design should almost all land in
dmedia 0.2, which will be released on December 30th:

https://launchpad.net/dmedia/+milestone/0.2

Although the content of the RenderMenu will still be quiet rough and
cards wont automatically be formatted yet.

I'll let you know when it's available!  Thanks again for the feedback!

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Re: [Ayatana] Usability - Useless effect when clicking an icon (Unity)

2010-12-09 Thread Peterson Silva
That's what it does in Windows 7, for some applications but not others:
for example, it works for Windows Explorer, but not for Windows Backup.

What an inconsistency oO

It's not what it does in Mac OS X, at all:

Sorry, I've never used a Mac, but as all the docks out there which try to
copy it somehow have this behaviour, I assumed that it was there where it
came from.

Unity will soon have something very much like this.

Awesome! =D But then with only one window will it minimise after clicking?

*Peterson*
*http://petercast.net*



On 9 December 2010 14:12, Matthew Paul Thomas m...@canonical.com wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Peterson Silva wrote on 08/12/10 15:01:
 ...
  So the thing is, if you have only one instance of an active window and
  you click its icon in the Launcher, the effect is useless. Users coming
  from Windows 7 (or any other version of it for that matter) or Mac OS
  will expect the application to minimize;

 That's what it does in Windows 7, for some applications but not others:
 for example, it works for Windows Explorer, but not for Windows Backup.

 It's not what it does in Mac OS X, at all: clicking the launcher of a
 running application always brings all its windows to the front, and if
 they already are, it does nothing.

 ...
  So here's what we could do, then: to have different effects based on
  the windows opened, but with a visual hint so the user knows what to
  expect (and can easily understand the point of the behaviour). I'm not
  currently using Unity, but as far as I remember, there's no visual hint
  as to whether or not there are multiple instances of a window opened.
  We could put a small emblem over the program icon in the launcher (like
  in one of its corners) with a number indicating the number of windows.
 ...

 Unity will soon have something very much like this.

 - --
 Matthew Paul Thomas
 http://mpt.net.nz/
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[Ayatana-commits] [Branch ~dbusmenu-team/dbusmenu/trunk] Rev 174: Upping the library version as we're different ABI than 0.3.90 even :-/

2010-12-09 Thread noreply

revno: 174
committer: Ted Gould t...@gould.cx
branch nick: trunk
timestamp: Thu 2010-12-09 10:18:26 -0600
message:
  Upping the library version as we're different ABI than 0.3.90 even :-/
modified:
  configure.ac


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To unsubscribe from this branch go to 
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=== modified file 'configure.ac'
--- configure.ac	2010-12-07 15:26:30 +
+++ configure.ac	2010-12-09 16:18:26 +
@@ -135,7 +135,7 @@
 # Lib versioning 
 ###
 
-LIBDBUSMENU_CURRENT=2
+LIBDBUSMENU_CURRENT=3
 LIBDBUSMENU_REVISION=0
 LIBDBUSMENU_AGE=0
 

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[Ayatana-commits] [Merge] lp:~ted/dbusmenu/check-item-fix into lp:dbusmenu

2010-12-09 Thread Ted Gould
Ted Gould has proposed merging lp:~ted/dbusmenu/check-item-fix into lp:dbusmenu.

Requested reviews:
  DBus Menu Team (dbusmenu-team)


Fixing check items.
-- 
https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/dbusmenu/check-item-fix/+merge/43304
Your team ayatana-commits is subscribed to branch lp:dbusmenu.
=== modified file 'libdbusmenu-gtk/genericmenuitem.c'
--- libdbusmenu-gtk/genericmenuitem.c	2010-12-02 19:52:54 +
+++ libdbusmenu-gtk/genericmenuitem.c	2010-12-09 22:49:53 +
@@ -65,6 +65,7 @@
 static void draw_indicator (GtkCheckMenuItem *check_menu_item, GdkRectangle *area);
 static void (*parent_draw_indicator) (GtkCheckMenuItem *check_menu_item, GdkRectangle *area) = NULL;
 #endif
+static void (*parent_menuitem_activate) (GtkMenuItem * mi) = NULL;
 
 /* Initializing all of the classes.  Most notably we're
disabling the drawing of the check early. */
@@ -86,6 +87,7 @@
 	GtkMenuItemClass * menuitem_class = GTK_MENU_ITEM_CLASS (klass);
 	menuitem_class-set_label = set_label;
 	menuitem_class-get_label = get_label;
+	parent_menuitem_activate = menuitem_class-activate;
 	menuitem_class-activate = activate;
 
 	return;
@@ -333,21 +335,19 @@
 	item-priv-state = state;
 
 	GtkCheckMenuItem * check = GTK_CHECK_MENU_ITEM(item);
-
-	gboolean old_active = gtk_check_menu_item_get_active (check);
-	gboolean old_inconsist = gtk_check_menu_item_get_inconsistent (check);
+	gboolean goal_active = FALSE;
 
 	switch (item-priv-state) {
 	case GENERICMENUITEM_STATE_UNCHECKED:
-		gtk_check_menu_item_set_active (check, FALSE);
+		goal_active = FALSE;
 		gtk_check_menu_item_set_inconsistent (check, FALSE);
 		break;
 	case GENERICMENUITEM_STATE_CHECKED:
-		gtk_check_menu_item_set_active (check, TRUE);
+		goal_active = TRUE;
 		gtk_check_menu_item_set_inconsistent (check, FALSE);
 		break;
 	case GENERICMENUITEM_STATE_INDETERMINATE:
-		gtk_check_menu_item_set_active (check, TRUE);
+		goal_active = TRUE;
 		gtk_check_menu_item_set_inconsistent (check, TRUE);
 		break;
 	default:
@@ -355,15 +355,11 @@
 		return;
 	}
 
-	if (old_active != gtk_check_menu_item_get_active (check)) {
-		g_object_notify(G_OBJECT(item), active);
-	}
-
-	if (old_inconsist != gtk_check_menu_item_get_inconsistent (check)) {
-		g_object_notify(G_OBJECT(item), inconsistent);
-	}
-
-	gtk_widget_queue_draw(GTK_WIDGET(item));
+	if (goal_active != gtk_check_menu_item_get_active(check)) {
+		if (parent_menuitem_activate != NULL) {
+			parent_menuitem_activate(GTK_MENU_ITEM(check));
+		}
+	}
 
 	return;
 }

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[Ayatana-commits] [Merge] lp:~ted/dbusmenu/check-item-fix into lp:dbusmenu

2010-12-09 Thread noreply
The proposal to merge lp:~ted/dbusmenu/check-item-fix into lp:dbusmenu has been 
updated.

Status: Needs review = Merged
-- 
https://code.launchpad.net/~ted/dbusmenu/check-item-fix/+merge/43304
Your team ayatana-commits is subscribed to branch lp:dbusmenu.

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