Re: [Ayatana] Why the launcher should be on the right
On 19 December 2010 17:22, Mirek M. wrote: > Hi everyone, > As my requests for having an option to put the Ubuntu button + launcher on > the right have been received as insignificant feature requests, I'd like to > explain how Ubuntu button + launcher actually make more sense and improve > usability on the right. > > If they were on the right by default, then: > > *The whole left side of the screen would be devoted to the current > application* > Right now, you get some system-related commands on the right of the top > panel, application-related commands on the left, and some more > system-related commands on the far left. > Moving the launcher and the Ubuntu button to the right would put all the > system-related commands on the right and all the app-related commands on the > left, so neither the launcher nor the Ubuntu button gets in the way when > working with a single application. > > *A "hot corner" wouldn't get in the way* > Keeping application commands separate from system commands is especially > important to workflow when you have areas that activate on hover (e.g. > Ubuntu button). It is extremely annoying and distracting when you > accidentally mouse over a "hot corner"and have to wait a few seconds to get > back to work. As the menu bar and window buttons are aligned left, and as > most toolbars are also left-aligned, a hot corner on the right will be less > likely to be accidentally triggered than a hot corner on the left. > > *The application would get the most focus* > As most languages are read from left to right, our focus tends to start at > the left side of the screen. If the goal of Unity is to maintain focus on a > single task, it makes most sense to put the launcher somewhere where it > doesn't distract from the application -- on the right. > > *"Tools" would be easier to target* > Most image editors, raster or vector, have a "Tools" sidebar on the left, > which is very easy to target when it is at the edge of the screen, but very > hard to target when there's a launcher at the left edge of the screen. > > I hope that this is enough to at least consider moving the launcher to the > right. > > Looking forward to follow-up comments, > Mirek > I agree completely, unfortunately I think this is a decision that's already been made :( Luke. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Why the launcher should be on the right
+1, I agree... grouping functionality based on scope is a good thing. On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 7:22 PM, Mirek M. wrote: > Hi everyone, > As my requests for having an option to put the Ubuntu button + launcher on > the right have been received as insignificant feature requests, I'd like to > explain how Ubuntu button + launcher actually make more sense and improve > usability on the right. > > If they were on the right by default, then: > > *The whole left side of the screen would be devoted to the current > application* > Right now, you get some system-related commands on the right of the top > panel, application-related commands on the left, and some more > system-related commands on the far left. > Moving the launcher and the Ubuntu button to the right would put all the > system-related commands on the right and all the app-related commands on the > left, so neither the launcher nor the Ubuntu button gets in the way when > working with a single application. > > *A "hot corner" wouldn't get in the way* > Keeping application commands separate from system commands is especially > important to workflow when you have areas that activate on hover (e.g. > Ubuntu button). It is extremely annoying and distracting when you > accidentally mouse over a "hot corner"and have to wait a few seconds to get > back to work. As the menu bar and window buttons are aligned left, and as > most toolbars are also left-aligned, a hot corner on the right will be less > likely to be accidentally triggered than a hot corner on the left. > > *The application would get the most focus* > As most languages are read from left to right, our focus tends to start at > the left side of the screen. If the goal of Unity is to maintain focus on a > single task, it makes most sense to put the launcher somewhere where it > doesn't distract from the application -- on the right. > > *"Tools" would be easier to target* > Most image editors, raster or vector, have a "Tools" sidebar on the left, > which is very easy to target when it is at the edge of the screen, but very > hard to target when there's a launcher at the left edge of the screen. > > I hope that this is enough to at least consider moving the launcher to the > right. > > Looking forward to follow-up comments, > Mirek > > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana > Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] "fileless" paradigm
On Sat, 18 Dec 2010 00:03:12 +0100, Roberto Guido wrote: On Fri, 2010-12-17 at 13:51 +, femorandeira wrote: Search is usually *only* used as a last resource tool when the user can not remember at all where he put that document... I don't agree this. This is probably true for power-users, or at least people used to the hierarchical filesystem we daily manage and with deep dependency on it, but not for entry-level users. I was not talking about the internet: the internet contains a vast amount of information created by other people and searching it is the only realistic option. I was talking about the manipulation of the personal archive by people that use a computer often. In that case, it seems that people rely more on some form of spatial organisation that in searching. You obviously know more than me about entry-level users because you are working with them on a regular basis (and I think that's a great thing to do, btw). An interesting paper on this is "Improved search engines and navigation preference in personal information management", by Bergman et al. (2008). They wanted to test the hypothesis that search would become more and more commonly used as the tools became better (with cross–format search, fast retrieval, better design, incremental search, etc.). For this, they got the data from a experiment that took place in 1995 and replicated it in 2008. To their surprise, they found that participants used search only for 4–15% retrieval attempts and that the improvements in search technology did not cause a substantial change in the picture. They gave a number of possible reasons that might explain their results. For instance, navigation is more consistent than searching: you have to remember the location of the item, as opposed to remembering one of the possible multiple ways of searching for it. Navigation is also based on recognition and is assisted by the use of spatial clues that help the user reach the desired goal step by step. Of course, the "location" of a file is not a real characteristic but it seems a natural metaphor because if mimics what happens in the real world. Now, this is just an experiment and I am not trying to defend the current state of things, but I would like to see some evidence before jumping on the wagon :-) Felipe ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] [Fwd: Re: Presence via Me Menu]
> > so.. what could the local relevance of "Invisible" aka "hidden" be? > is there any? > In IM being invisible means that you want the world to treat you like you were offline. That means not sending you anything, regardless of how important it is. Invisible can be seen as the ultimate maximum level of "do not disturb". ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Messaging Menu and the MeMenu
> > Right now, the Messaging Menu and MeMenu are kind of connected, in that > > the functionality of the MeMenu changes by clicks in the Messaging Menu. > > For example, to get a text box for a broadcast account in the MeMenu, > > the user has to go to the Messaging Menu to start Gwibber. Furthermore, > > to actually use the inactive status buttons in the MeMenu, the user has > > to start chat from the messaging menu, > > As Conscious user said, the IM status problem has always been a bug. The > Gwibber problem, on the other hand, is a design flaw. > > > One solution could be merging the two menus, but that could create too > > large a menu. A better solution could be to have the textbox and > > buttons appear when the user sets up the two accounts for the first > > time, and to keep them active. > > I think both of those would make a lot of sense. Perhaps someone could > sketch what a combined menu might look like? > > > I would like to know what the rationale for the current functionality > > is. > > There is none. I'm resurrecting this thread now that I'm finally regularly on Maverick. The more I use the Message Menu, the more I get convinced that it shouldn't have more functionality than it does now. In fact, I got fed up of the "Contacts" and "Compose" in the Evolution entry and removed them, making the menu purely an inbox (see attachment) I think the Messaging Menu *should* be purely an inbox, because one of the most common complaints against the notifications redesign is how reacting to IM/mail notifications is now less efficient (opening an menu and looking for an entry instead of simply clicking on the tray icon). I personally think that the difference is negligible, but *only* if the menu is not too cluttered. I don't think the current separation between the Message and Me menus is necessarily a bad thing. I believe it only needs some refinement, both in design and implementation, to show that the idea of thinking functionality-wise (inbox vs. outbox) instead of application-wise (empathy, evolution, etc.) is not absurd as it seems at a first glance. Some things that get in the way of this objective now: - Shortcuts for configuring im/microblog accounts in the Me Menu. This overlaps with the messaging menu directly and keeping those entries there does not make sense once the accounts are configured... the Messaging Menu does it more correctly, showing them only if no accounts are configured - Ubuntu One in the Me Menu... I don't think it really fits. - "Contacts" and "Compose" in the Messaging Menu... having two "outbox" entries lost in the middle looks and feels wrong... and adds clutter <>___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Me & Messaging Indicator Menu
Hello, Hmm... don't like it very much, and mainly because of the menu having too much information. The user won't need chat, broadcast, a contact list, mail, silent mode and "About me..." at the same time. Maybe we should have tabs at the top of the menu that brings out each section when clicked? Thanks nonetheless for the mock-up, Mohamed Amine IL Idrissi On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 5:21 AM, frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: > v0.2 ;) > guys, i need feedback if this is ever gonna make sense.. > thanks for sharing your opinions! > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana > Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] [Fwd: Re: Presence via Me Menu]
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 04:37, Conscious User wrote: > In IM being invisible means that you want the world to treat you like > you were offline. That means not sending you anything, regardless of > how important it is. Invisible can be seen as the ultimate maximum > level of "do not disturb". > Strong disagree. Invisible means "I don't want people to see me online". Often this is because you want to have a one or more important conversations with specific contacts, while appearing offline to the rest of them. You should still be able to receive messages is "invisible" mode. "Offline" is the ultimate maximum level of "do not disturb". -- Jeremy Nickurak -= Email/XMPP: -= jer...@nickurak.ca =- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] "fileless" paradigm
On Dec 20, 2010, at 3:33 AM, femorandeira wrote: > They gave a number of possible reasons that might explain their > results. For instance, navigation is more consistent than searching: > you have to remember the location of the item, as opposed to > remembering one of the possible multiple ways of searching for it. > Navigation is also based on recognition and is assisted by the use of > spatial clues that help the user reach the desired goal step by step. > Of course, the "location" of a file is not a real characteristic but > it seems a natural metaphor because if mimics what happens in the real > world. That's a great point. However, we have to remember that, in the real world, we remember where something is by it's relation to other things. Not only do we think "in that room" but we also think "next to that desk." To return to the computing world, we should not only know where a file is with respect to which folder it's in, but also what it's related to. Imagine how your mind keeps track of information. At least mine doesn't keep all information in separate boxes, but rather accessing information through connections and relations. It is in this regard that navigation alone is a subpar method. The optimal solution is one where the user can set relations to files, that is, group them. For example, one of my essays is very closely related to the pictures that go along with it. To find the essay, I should be able to select the project I'm working on, and see all the files that are related to it. Or, if I'm editing the paper, I should be able to quickly move from the paper to the pictures. Basically, I propose allowing the user to create abstract items (tags, groupings, projects, call them what you like) and relate their physical items (files that have content) to them. This system could be used the same way folders are used today, but it allows for a more flexible, human way of organizing. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] [Fwd: Re: Presence via Me Menu]
On 16/12/10 12:56, Martín A. Casco wrote: > There is an interesting mail here about unifying Messaging Menu and Me > Menu... for example, launch empathy (or Pidgin if installed) from > Messaging Menu, see contacts chats from messaging menu, but if we want > to set quickly our chat status we have tu use Me Menu... Maybe a > unified option could be mor logical and better. > > On Gwibber, launch and see mentions or DM from Messaging menu, but if > we want to twit we have to go to Me Menu, delete de "Publicar en > Twitter" (I'm from Argentina) and write our twit, but there is no > shorter URL (Like twitter) and sometimes notification bubble interfere... > > I believe that a unified solution could be better, don't you? Yes, I do. The biggest issue has been finding a way to make that compact enough to be a clean indicator. We can have another stab at that for 11.10. Whatever we do there will need to stick for 12.04 LTS. Mark signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] [Fwd: Re: Presence via Me Menu]
Hi Jeremy,
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 18:12, Jeremy Nickurak wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 04:37, Conscious User wrote:
>
>> In IM being invisible means that you want the world to treat you like
>> you were offline. That means not sending you anything, regardless of
>> how important it is. Invisible can be seen as the ultimate maximum
>> level of "do not disturb".
>>
>
> Strong disagree. Invisible means "I don't want people to see me online".
> Often this is because you want to have a one or more important conversations
> with specific contacts, while appearing offline to the rest of them. You
> should still be able to receive messages is "invisible" mode.
>
exactly. that's why i'm thinking of it as more of a "Private status", which
would be ideal, if i could allow specific Contacts to see me online.
I think it used to be a hack in in Gaim IIRC, that allowed blocking everyone
but a select few, when going into "Private status".
Folks got unblocked once one went back to public status..
"Offline" is the ultimate maximum level of "do not disturb".
>
I think you are both correct:
Going invisible makes you "appear as offline". That's obviously what you
desired to appear as.
Now, WRT your clandestine actions within that state, the typical use case is
to have a very private conversation, undisturbed.
So in that spirit:
Do not disturb is the precursor, the protostate, the warning sign outside my
door saying i'm in and i'm busy, unless you have an appointment.
Invisible is the asymptote of "seeking undisturbedness". It's closing the
shutters on everyone, revoking all general invitation and openness.
In that moment, all i want is my privacy.
Would be exciting to know if we could block everyone except for those we
allow ("privacy mode" or something), with one keypress.
___
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Re: [Ayatana] "fileless" paradigm
On Sun, Dec 19, 2010 at 21:35, fain182 wrote: > > Now imagine Jane has a new camera and goes on 4 vacations per year. > > On each vacation, Jane takes several hundred shots. > > After 3 years, Jane has 4300 photos she made all by herself, he Uncle's > 200 > > wedding photos not even included. > > As she tries to find "that picture with Auntie Mabel on that rock" from > one > > of the vacations, she is confronted with 1200 photos to go through. > > Now she complains: "darn, i wish i could just tell the computer to show > me > > photos of Auntie Mabel". > and in your opinion Jane would tag every of the 4300 photos with all > the name of the people in the photo? > nobody's talking about names. That's facebook, i mean labels, titles, albums, collections, locations whatever you find useful in identifying the objects. since we want the computer to be able to help us retrieve these items later, we will outfit it with the ability to promote those tags which are most popular or frequently accessed visually, affording their re-use. If two tags are similar of content, we will have the option to merge them into one. An object that fits "2008", "Holiday" and "Grandma" can be sought by someone picking these attributes from their respective "Places". "Places" bridges the conceptual gap between navigating to *Somewhere* within a directory tree symbolic folders / Query based search. The whole problem imo lies in the way stuff is displayed to the user, not in the way it is physically stored on the medium. That's why so many people in this thread meantioned the MVC concept, in which an underlying technology is abstracted by a much more comprehensible interface, which is far simpler and easier to use, yet powerful enough to control fully. It's a bit like Star Trek's "universal translator", or like a compiler perhaps.. you give it C or Vala, it executes the described sequence of orders, after translating them into something the executing hardware speaks. The user understands what does not confuse, unambiguous metaphors, obvious symbols, accessible controls (fitt's law), "only way to go" (constraint), "easiest thing to do" (as mpt points out in his blog), and everything that is clear per se, one message at a time. I don't think that manual tagging will be successful, can be an > overhead more then an help.. > yeah, manual tagging, as easy and quick as it can be if you select groups of items via thumbs and previews or folders, is still not the sole solution. Metadata, in the physical universe, is attached to the respective medium by the author, not by the recepient. So if you receive a file from someone, it already *is* tagged. Only if you receive files from your own "Camera", it is not always geotagged and date-tagged automatically. Then you'd use "Photo Manager" to add tags to groups of files you are importing. Once you want a specific file to have an individual title, you select it in its group and simply enter a title for it. imagine you're in the library trying to retrieve a book, how wrong would it if you had to read every book first in order to identify it? Or if you wanted to view a webpage, and you would have to study the markup before you could begin to imagine what the page is supposed to look like!?! GNOME (GNU Network Object Model Environment) sports "managers" for Content: * a web-markup manager for webpages (Epiphany/Webkit) * a music manager for music files (atm rhythmbox) * Photo Manager for Photos (Shotwell) * a connection manager for instant communication services (telepathy mission control 5) ** inside telepathy, there's e.g. Ofono for GSM telephony * a contact manager for all of our contacts (Telepathy/Folks) * a message, thread and newsfeed manager (Evolution) with all of those well fitted and equipped for management of actual content metainformation, it would be a strong regression to resort back to "filenames". All the other apps are either creative suites (OOo, Anjuta, Ardour, Blender, Inkscape, Gimp etc), games or managers of "special" content types, e.g. star charts (Celestial) or Themes (e.g. Appearance Settings). The change we are undergoing is quite simple. Instead of giving a new file a filename, we give it a title, if it's a batch of files, we might give them a common descriptor such as an "Album Title" or "Group Title", or simply a common location, venue or event etc. Not restricting this to any machine-proposed formats means allowing for free "tagging", all upon creation. If we open a certain file often, the computer will have a way to ask us to identify it with a title at some point (e.g. when opened from "frequently accessed", if it has no title). It is good to hold on to the folders and files system we have currently, because that's where our b#lls are. It is only a step forward, to add proper support for Titles, Tags and Content-type-specific attributes as soon as possible. We'll have useful default fields to fill upon "save as" or initial "save", e.g. Title, Artist, Genre
Re: [Ayatana] Me & Messaging Indicator Menu
hi Mohamed, On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 18:03, ilidrissiam...@gmail.com < ilidrissiam...@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello, > > Hmm... don't like it very much, and mainly because of the menu having > too much information. The user won't need chat, broadcast, a contact > list, mail, silent mode and "About me..." at the same time. Maybe we > should have tabs at the top of the menu that brings out each section > when clicked? > > Thanks nonetheless for the mock-up, > Mohamed Amine IL Idrissi > thanks for kindly taking your time to offer your consideration! I thought of Tabs, and i still do, i guess i just wanted to prove to myself that all this stuff fints vertically into one single unified menu. Making it pretty to reduce clutter and confusion is the next step. Tabs would appear as a block of Icons In the panel. I was thinking of 1 Icon per service type, i.e. one for IM, one for Broadcast and one for Mail. Now having extra tabs is not necessarily better, because the overview component would nolonger be there.. I'll try iterations of this mockup, considering your criticism! anybody else? Does anybody think it unreasonable to unite Me & Messaging Menu? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
