Re: [Ayatana] [Fwd: Re: Presence via Me Menu]
Hi Jeremy,
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 18:12, Jeremy Nickurak wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 04:37, Conscious User wrote:
>
>> In IM being invisible means that you want the world to treat you like
>> you were offline. That means not sending you anything, regardless of
>> how important it is. Invisible can be seen as the ultimate maximum
>> level of "do not disturb".
>>
>
> Strong disagree. Invisible means "I don't want people to see me online".
> Often this is because you want to have a one or more important conversations
> with specific contacts, while appearing offline to the rest of them. You
> should still be able to receive messages is "invisible" mode.
>
exactly. that's why i'm thinking of it as more of a "Private status", which
would be ideal, if i could allow specific Contacts to see me online.
I think it used to be a hack in in Gaim IIRC, that allowed blocking everyone
but a select few, when going into "Private status".
Folks got unblocked once one went back to public status..
"Offline" is the ultimate maximum level of "do not disturb".
>
I think you are both correct:
Going invisible makes you "appear as offline". That's obviously what you
desired to appear as.
Now, WRT your clandestine actions within that state, the typical use case is
to have a very private conversation, undisturbed.
So in that spirit:
Do not disturb is the precursor, the protostate, the warning sign outside my
door saying i'm in and i'm busy, unless you have an appointment.
Invisible is the asymptote of "seeking undisturbedness". It's closing the
shutters on everyone, revoking all general invitation and openness.
In that moment, all i want is my privacy.
Would be exciting to know if we could block everyone except for those we
allow ("privacy mode" or something), with one keypress.
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Re: [Ayatana] [Fwd: Re: Presence via Me Menu]
On 16/12/10 12:56, Martín A. Casco wrote: > There is an interesting mail here about unifying Messaging Menu and Me > Menu... for example, launch empathy (or Pidgin if installed) from > Messaging Menu, see contacts chats from messaging menu, but if we want > to set quickly our chat status we have tu use Me Menu... Maybe a > unified option could be mor logical and better. > > On Gwibber, launch and see mentions or DM from Messaging menu, but if > we want to twit we have to go to Me Menu, delete de "Publicar en > Twitter" (I'm from Argentina) and write our twit, but there is no > shorter URL (Like twitter) and sometimes notification bubble interfere... > > I believe that a unified solution could be better, don't you? Yes, I do. The biggest issue has been finding a way to make that compact enough to be a clean indicator. We can have another stab at that for 11.10. Whatever we do there will need to stick for 12.04 LTS. Mark signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] [Fwd: Re: Presence via Me Menu]
On Mon, Dec 20, 2010 at 04:37, Conscious User wrote: > In IM being invisible means that you want the world to treat you like > you were offline. That means not sending you anything, regardless of > how important it is. Invisible can be seen as the ultimate maximum > level of "do not disturb". > Strong disagree. Invisible means "I don't want people to see me online". Often this is because you want to have a one or more important conversations with specific contacts, while appearing offline to the rest of them. You should still be able to receive messages is "invisible" mode. "Offline" is the ultimate maximum level of "do not disturb". -- Jeremy Nickurak -= Email/XMPP: -= jer...@nickurak.ca =- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] [Fwd: Re: Presence via Me Menu]
> > so.. what could the local relevance of "Invisible" aka "hidden" be? > is there any? > In IM being invisible means that you want the world to treat you like you were offline. That means not sending you anything, regardless of how important it is. Invisible can be seen as the ultimate maximum level of "do not disturb". ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] [Fwd: Re: Presence via Me Menu]
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 18:30, frederik.nn...@gmail.com < frederik.nn...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Semantically, "Available" is the default state², unless something else is > specified. > "Offline" in fact means "Chat (Off)". > (Users are more familiar with the simple ON/OFF metaphor, than with > complicated multi state control interfaces) > ..Chat=Off ..in which case, as i mentioned above, Presence controls might > as well be disabled / greyed out. > wow.. what a remarkable sloppyness on my side. Of course, Presence controls will not be greyed out! We need them for local system behaviour. That was the one thing that kept me from understanding the problem at hand. Once this bug is properly handled, Presence can be used to control local notification behaviour and schedules in relation to how i am currently "busy", "away" or "available". If we look at "invisible" aka "hidden", we should look at it as a state that will also be relevant locally, not only to the web. It is orthogonal to Presence, that's for sure, since it regulates whether Presence should be published via IM or not. so.. what could the local relevance of "Invisible" aka "hidden" be? is there any? > ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] [Fwd: Re: Presence via Me Menu]
Hi Martín, On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 13:56, Martín A. Casco wrote: > - Mensaje reenviado > > *De*: Mark Shuttleworth > > > > *Para*: Frederik Nnaji > > > > *Cc*: Ayatana@lists.launchpad.net > > > > *Asunto*: Re: [Ayatana] Presence via Me Menu > *Fecha*: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 07:56:18 + > > On 09/09/10 11:00, Frederik Nnaji wrote: > > I was hoping Mission Control 5 in Telepathy would make it possible to > > change back to "online", "away" or "busy", even when Empathy says my > > accounts are "offline". > > Another thing is, that i'm being logged out, not sent offline. My > > computer is still online, it's just that IM accounts are being logged out. > > This is why i don't understand the use case of "offline", if all it > > does is actually "log out". > > > > If offline was to be a state of Presence, it would be better if i > > could alternate between "offline" and the other states of Presence via > > the MeMenu directly. > > Now remains the question, why in the implementation the Presence part > > of the MeMenu is "disabled" when all Empathy-configured accounts are > > "offline".. > > > > Sorry for the response to old email, but I didn't see a follow-up. > > If empathy is not running, you should be able to launch it simply by > changing your status to Available or another online state. In other > words, the states should be achievable even if that means first starting > empathy. > > Mark > > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana > > Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > Hi there, > >Well, no, that's not the actual behavior; the only way (at least in my > case) to launch Empathy it's clicking on chat entry on Messaging Menu.. > > BTW, If we want to use Me Menu, and running Empathy -x example the > notification odf interfere with Me Menu... > > There is an interesting mail here about unifying Messaging Menu and Me > Menu... for example, launch empathy (or Pidgin if installed) from Messaging > Menu, see contacts chats from messaging menu, but if we want to set quickly > our chat status we have tu use Me Menu... Maybe a unified option could be > mor logical and better. > > On Gwibber, launch and see mentions or DM from Messaging menu, but if we > want to twit we have to go to Me Menu, delete de "Publicar en Twitter" (I'm > from Argentina) and write our twit, but there is no shorter URL (Like > twitter) and sometimes notification bubble interfere... > > I believe that a unified solution could be better, don't you? > > Martín > Bug #452067 handles that MC 5 issue.. i.e. to keep the Presence controls in the Me Menu enabled, even when Empathy is not running. At the moment, we have no discoverable interface to logging in and out of chat, aka enabling, disabling chat, aka Chat [ON|OFF]. The only way to achieve this, is to go into the account setup/management dialog of Empathy, open the page of the respective service and tick/untick the checkmark for "Enabled". This is not what i'd expect from "Social from the Start". I personally came to think, they might as well stay disabled, until "Chat" is set to "ON". That, of course, would require ON|OFF toggles for CHAT, MAIL and BROADCAST on the bottom of the MeMenu, after the user has configured these services. I personally don't think BROADCAST is ready to be presented, but the majority of users in the "Do You Use Gwibber" thread replied that it is useful to them, so i wouldn't remove it just as yet. The ON|OFF toggles are an idea i like in the design mockups of the new network indicator (see mockup attached) that mpt sketched. I love it! ¹ We should place those consistently into all indicator menus, where there is a service activate | deactivate toggle. i think even in the sound menu, sound ON | OFF would not be bad. Back to the Me Menu.. Instead of having 3 seperate links to account configuration interfaces on the bottom of the Me Menu, we should tie those seperate configuration interfaces into a single entry "Setup Accounts.." If that is too undiscoverable, then at least, once the respective service is configured, they should be replaced, respectively, by: *ON | OFF [Chat]* *ON | OFF [Broadcast] * *ON | OFF [Email]* An On | Off toggle for Chat saves us the need for two now redundant rows in the menu: ** Available* ** Offline* Semantically, "Available" is the default state², unless something else is specified. "Offline" in fact means "Chat (Off)". (Users are more familiar with the simple ON/OFF metaphor, than with complicated multi state control interfaces) ..Chat=Off ..in which case, as i mentioned above, Presence controls might as well be disabled / greyed out. This leaves: *[Away] or [Busy]* these two are closely related, often iterated between, they both represent the state of unavailability, they deserve being horizontal, i.e. in one row! They should not be greyed out,
[Ayatana] [Fwd: Re: Presence via Me Menu]
- Mensaje reenviado > De: Mark Shuttleworth > Para: Frederik Nnaji > Cc: Ayatana@lists.launchpad.net > Asunto: Re: [Ayatana] Presence via Me Menu > Fecha: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 07:56:18 + > > > On 09/09/10 11:00, Frederik Nnaji wrote: > > I was hoping Mission Control 5 in Telepathy would make it possible to > > change back to "online", "away" or "busy", even when Empathy says my > > accounts are "offline". > > Another thing is, that i'm being logged out, not sent offline. My > > computer is still online, it's just that IM accounts are being logged out. > > This is why i don't understand the use case of "offline", if all it > > does is actually "log out". > > > > If offline was to be a state of Presence, it would be better if i > > could alternate between "offline" and the other states of Presence via > > the MeMenu directly. > > Now remains the question, why in the implementation the Presence part > > of the MeMenu is "disabled" when all Empathy-configured accounts are > > "offline".. > > > > Sorry for the response to old email, but I didn't see a follow-up. > > If empathy is not running, you should be able to launch it simply by > changing your status to Available or another online state. In other > words, the states should be achievable even if that means first starting > empathy. > > Mark > > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana > Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp Hi there, Well, no, that's not the actual behavior; the only way (at least in my case) to launch Empathy it's clicking on chat entry on Messaging Menu.. BTW, If we want to use Me Menu, and running Empathy -x example the notification odf interfere with Me Menu... There is an interesting mail here about unifying Messaging Menu and Me Menu... for example, launch empathy (or Pidgin if installed) from Messaging Menu, see contacts chats from messaging menu, but if we want to set quickly our chat status we have tu use Me Menu... Maybe a unified option could be mor logical and better. On Gwibber, launch and see mentions or DM from Messaging menu, but if we want to twit we have to go to Me Menu, delete de "Publicar en Twitter" (I'm from Argentina) and write our twit, but there is no shorter URL (Like twitter) and sometimes notification bubble interfere... I believe that a unified solution could be better, don't you? Martín -- Enviado desde Ubuntu ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
