Re: [Ayatana] Lack of harmony between panel applets
On 28/06/10 03:34, Tyler Brainerd wrote: On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Allan Caeg allanc...@gmail.com mailto:allanc...@gmail.com wrote: Will indicator-network feel integrated with Indicator Applet and Indicator Session? If indicator-network is right beside Indicator Applet, will it follow that mouse hover menu activation will jump between the two panel applets? As for the clock applet, does anyone here know if it will work the same way as indicator-network? That is the design intent, yes. If you are running only Ayatana indicators, then yes you will be able to have a menu only experience end-to-end. For 10.10 that will mean using connection manager, which will still have rough edges, and the clock indicator, which is relatively simplistic. But it will still feel tighter and more unified than a hodge-podge of panel applets, so that's how I'll be using it :-) Mark signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Lack of harmony between panel applets
On Mon, 2010-06-28 at 07:45 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote: If you are running only Ayatana indicators, then yes you will be able to have a menu only experience end-to-end. For 10.10 that will mean using connection manager, which will still have rough edges, and the clock indicator, which is relatively simplistic. But it will still feel tighter and more unified than a hodge-podge of panel applets, so that's how I'll be using it :-) So long as it has 24 hour clock, seconds and an ability to display a basically a custom datetime format of my choosing through some non-ui configuration. I really like iso date/time. Although I hear it'll unravel all the functionality for the evolution calendar and task list as well as the handy locations and ability to change locations from that menu. Is that true? Martin, ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Lack of harmony between panel applets
On 28/06/10 08:33, Martin Owens wrote: Although I hear it'll unravel all the functionality for the evolution calendar and task list as well as the handy locations and ability to change locations from that menu. In due course, similar capabilities will be added. But for the moment it's minimalist. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Lack of harmony between panel applets
In due course, similar capabilities will be added. But for the moment it's minimalist. Here's me hoping that those similar capabilities will be implemented in a neat d-bus service way which follows an app-independent protocol, thus closing one of the most common complaints against the current clock, which is being too tied to Evolution. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Lack of harmony between panel applets
On 28/06/10 08:53, Conscious User wrote: In due course, similar capabilities will be added. But for the moment it's minimalist. Here's me hoping that those similar capabilities will be implemented in a neat d-bus service way which follows an app-independent protocol, thus closing one of the most common complaints against the current clock, which is being too tied to Evolution. Agreed! signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Lack of harmony between panel applets
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 12:15, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 28/06/10 08:53, Conscious User wrote: In due course, similar capabilities will be added. But for the moment it's minimalist. Here's me hoping that those similar capabilities will be implemented in a neat d-bus service way which follows an app-independent protocol, thus closing one of the most common complaints against the current clock, which is being too tied to Evolution. Agreed! +1 now that someone said Evolution, let me suggest something to make the indicators more harmonious ;) Messaging Menu and MeMenu are struggling not to duplicate each other's work, both are looking to develop their respective individual identities. I suggest, give them identities: MeMenu stays responsible for Me-related stuff such as account settings that are tied to it, and it should handle instantly relevant stuff such as VoIP phone calls, Instant Chat Messaging and Presence. Messaging Menu does all that has to do with non-instant messaging, such as broadcast, email and News. Especially the broadcast field from the MeMenu rather belongs to the Messaging Menu, if you ask me. This way we would keep a clear line between the two menus, i would intuitively find what i'm looking for, since i know that one topic/category is covered in one menu, another topic/category is covered in the other menu. All i need to remember now is the indicator applet icon that stands for non-instant messaging, and the other one that stands for what would encompass the instant stuff.. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Lack of harmony between panel applets
On 25/06/10 08:49, Tyler Brainerd wrote: From what I understand, a lot of these changes (for instance, the new network manager) are and will continue to show up in the Unity interface, before eventually making their way over to Desktop. You'll be able to use our replacement for Network Manager on the desktop too, it just won't be the default in 10.10. But if you drop NM manually in favour of indicator-network, you'll have a fully cleaned-up panel (depending of course on what else you have which still uses systray, but we're close enough to done-1.0 that it should be reasonable to run with only indicators in 10.10 desktop). Mark signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Lack of harmony between panel applets
On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 12:25, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 25/06/10 08:49, Tyler Brainerd wrote: From what I understand, a lot of these changes (for instance, the new network manager) are and will continue to show up in the Unity interface, before eventually making their way over to Desktop. You'll be able to use our replacement for Network Manager on the desktop too, it just won't be the default in 10.10. Yeah, Connman uses NotifyOSD much better. But if you drop NM manually in favour of indicator-network, you'll have a fully cleaned-up panel (depending of course on what else you have which still uses systray, but we're close enough to done-1.0 that it should be reasonable to run with only indicators in 10.10 desktop). Can't wait for the Meercat ;) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Lack of harmony between panel applets
On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 7:32 PM, Allan Caeg allanc...@gmail.com wrote: Will indicator-network feel integrated with Indicator Applet and Indicator Session? If indicator-network is right beside Indicator Applet, will it follow that mouse hover menu activation will jump between the two panel applets? As for the clock applet, does anyone here know if it will work the same way as indicator-network? That is the design intent, yes. On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 6:25 PM, Mark Shuttleworth m...@ubuntu.comwrote: You'll be able to use our replacement for Network Manager on the desktop too, it just won't be the default in 10.10. But if you drop NM manually in favour of indicator-network, you'll have a fully cleaned-up panel (depending of course on what else you have which still uses systray, but we're close enough to done-1.0 that it should be reasonable to run with only indicators in 10.10 desktop). Mark -- Regards, Allan http://live.gnome.org/AllanCaeg ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Ayatana] Lack of harmony between panel applets
Hello everyone, New panel applets were introduced to the newer versions of Ubuntu. They improved the experience, because of their features, but they also created some inconsistencies in the GNOME Panel. If I remember correctly, it used to be that only the Menu Bar had associated elements (Applications, Places, and System buttons). With the new Indicator Applet and Indicator Applet Session, some icons on the right end of the top panel behave differently. There is now a lack of harmony, which I described here http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/9033/ayatanapanelissue.png . To fix this issue, we can change the way things are rendered, change their positioning, tweak how they behave, etc. What are your thoughts? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Lack of harmony between panel applets
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 12:17 AM, Allan Caeg allanc...@gmail.com wrote: Hello everyone, New panel applets were introduced to the newer versions of Ubuntu. They improved the experience, because of their features, but they also created some inconsistencies in the GNOME Panel. If I remember correctly, it used to be that only the Menu Bar had associated elements (Applications, Places, and System buttons). With the new Indicator Applet and Indicator Applet Session, some icons on the right end of the top panel behave differently. There is now a lack of harmony, which I described here http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/9033/ayatanapanelissue.png . To fix this issue, we can change the way things are rendered, change their positioning, tweak how they behave, etc. What are your thoughts? This separation is addressed in the fact that they are getting rid of the notification area, moving all icons to the indicator applet. The clock applet has a new version in the works as well. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Lack of harmony between panel applets
New panel applets were introduced to the newer versions of Ubuntu. They improved the experience, because of their features, but they also created some inconsistencies in the GNOME Panel. If I remember correctly, it used to be that only the Menu Bar had associated elements (Applications, Places, and System buttons). With the new Indicator Applet and Indicator Applet Session, some icons on the right end of the top panel behave differently. There is now a lack of harmony, which I described here http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/9033/ayatanapanelissue.png . To fix this issue, we can change the way things are rendered, change their positioning, tweak how they behave, etc. What are your thoughts? This separation is addressed in the fact that they are getting rid of the notification area, moving all icons to the indicator applet. The clock applet has a new version in the works as well. Yes, indicator-datetime is coming, but the death of the notification area depends on larger adoption of libappindicator and this can take a very long time, and several Ubuntu releases. Until it happens, separating the notification area more blatantly, like it's being proposed for Gnome (they are doing experiments with moving non-system icons to the bottom right corner), might be a good idea. If I remember correctly, there was a design principle stating that if things are different, make them very different because small differences look like mistakes. That sounds like the issues Allan is pointing: because the things in the corner *look* like they have similar behavior, it is frustrating for the user discovering that they do *not*. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Lack of harmony between panel applets
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 12:41 AM, Allan Caeg allanc...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Tyler Brainerd tylerbrain...@gmail.com wrote: This separation is addressed in the fact that they are getting rid of the notification area, moving all icons to the indicator applet. The clock applet has a new version in the works as well. Thanks, Tyler. I didn't know about the new clock applet. I hope, it addresses the issue Me too. :D From what I understand, a lot of these changes (for instance, the new network manager) are and will continue to show up in the Unity interface, before eventually making their way over to Desktop. On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Conscious User consciousu...@aol.comwrote: If I remember correctly, there was a design principle stating that if things are different, make them very different because small differences look like mistakes. That sounds like the issues Allan is pointing: because the things in the corner *look* like they have similar behavior, it is frustrating for the user discovering that they do *not*. That's right! ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Lack of harmony between panel applets
On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:17 AM, Allan Caeg allanc...@gmail.com wrote: What are your thoughts? Your analysis is spot on! There's a package called indicator-applet-complete in universe that will unify all that stuff. Just install it and indicator-datetime and remove the old clock applet and it'll be be all one nice scrobbable area. (Tip: I hit Super-S then use my arrow keys when I want to interact with the applets quickly) When indicator-datetime is more complete we'll be able to switch to it this way by default, it was too unfinished to be able to ship that way in Lucid. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
