[Ayatana] OMG!Ubuntu a bane or a boon? [was]Re: The new default wallpaper

[Vishnoo]

On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 08:23 -0300, Conscious User wrote: 
> Hello,
> 
> Some of you might be already aware of the controversy caused
> by the (supposed) new default wallpaper:
> 
> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/08/ubuntu-1010-default-wallpaper.html
> http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/2010/08/29/the-joke-that-is-mavericks-default-wallpaper/
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/625193
> 
> Because no one at the bug report mentioned the problem here,
> despite being repeatedly recommended by Vish to doing so, I
> am bringing up the subject.
> 
> Personally, I must admit I have never seem such a heavy
> backlash before. 

Backlash? Where? 
Are we now considering the above mentioned blog as a representative of
the whole Ubuntu community? 

Some of the comments there are often highly disrespectful to upstream
GNOME authors and I have personally seen upstream authors take offense
to the comments on that blog. [at times to the articles too] And had to
say that those are not the views of the whole Ubuntu community.

What worries me is that, if we consider those blog comments to be a
representative of the whole Ubuntu community, then Upstream is justified
at being offended. 

There is constructive criticism and there is just criticism/cynicism.
Anonymity does not give a person the instant right to be rude.

While it is easy for someone to make a passing comment about upstreams,
it becomes a waste of time for people who have to interact with
upstreams. 
We could all be more productive if people spent half that time, they
spend commenting, on something more useful.

-- 
Cheers,
Vish



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Re: [Ayatana] OMG!Ubuntu a bane or a boon? [was]Re: The new default wallpaper

[Mohammed Amine IL Idrissi]

Vish, I agree that some of the comments are rude, but the fact that
there are that many comments stating that the wallpaper is 'ugly'
means there must be a legitimate concern. Conscious User opened this
topic for us to share our thoughts, so we should keep it to that.

Thank you,
Mohamed Amine IL Idrissi

PS: As for my personal opinion, I think that mixing orange and
aubergine doesn't fit very well. Maybe we should make the orange color
more "dark"?

On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 3:21 PM, Vishnoo  wrote:
> On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 08:23 -0300, Conscious User wrote:
>> Hello,
>>
>> Some of you might be already aware of the controversy caused
>> by the (supposed) new default wallpaper:
>>
>> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/08/ubuntu-1010-default-wallpaper.html
>> http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/2010/08/29/the-joke-that-is-mavericks-default-wallpaper/
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/625193
>>
>> Because no one at the bug report mentioned the problem here,
>> despite being repeatedly recommended by Vish to doing so, I
>> am bringing up the subject.
>>
>> Personally, I must admit I have never seem such a heavy
>> backlash before.
>
> Backlash? Where?
> Are we now considering the above mentioned blog as a representative of
> the whole Ubuntu community?
>
> Some of the comments there are often highly disrespectful to upstream
> GNOME authors and I have personally seen upstream authors take offense
> to the comments on that blog. [at times to the articles too] And had to
> say that those are not the views of the whole Ubuntu community.
>
> What worries me is that, if we consider those blog comments to be a
> representative of the whole Ubuntu community, then Upstream is justified
> at being offended.
>
> There is constructive criticism and there is just criticism/cynicism.
> Anonymity does not give a person the instant right to be rude.
>
> While it is easy for someone to make a passing comment about upstreams,
> it becomes a waste of time for people who have to interact with
> upstreams.
> We could all be more productive if people spent half that time, they
> spend commenting, on something more useful.
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Vish
>
>
>
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Re: [Ayatana] OMG!Ubuntu a bane or a boon? [was]Re: The new default wallpaper

[Seif Lotfy]

On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Vishnoo  wrote:

> On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 08:23 -0300, Conscious User wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Some of you might be already aware of the controversy caused
> > by the (supposed) new default wallpaper:
> >
> > http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/08/ubuntu-1010-default-wallpaper.html
> >
> http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/2010/08/29/the-joke-that-is-mavericks-default-wallpaper/
> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/625193
> >
> > Because no one at the bug report mentioned the problem here,
> > despite being repeatedly recommended by Vish to doing so, I
> > am bringing up the subject.
> >
> > Personally, I must admit I have never seem such a heavy
> > backlash before.
>
> Backlash? Where?
> Are we now considering the above mentioned blog as a representative of
> the whole Ubuntu community?
>

They are Ubuntu users and thus do indeed have to be heard. Unlike most of
the "Ubuntu Community" who are active in the Ubuntu scene. The comments from
OMG! Ubuntu as well as the launchpad bug comments represent people who are
not blessed as Ubuntu community members, yet are part of the Ubuntu
eco-system. Maybe we should take their opinion sometimes, especially if its
very much heard.


> Some of the comments there are often highly disrespectful to upstream
> GNOME authors and I have personally seen upstream authors take offense
> to the comments on that blog. [at times to the articles too] And had to
> say that those are not the views of the whole Ubuntu community.
>

And when they offend they apologize so we should all get over it already.


> What worries me is that, if we consider those blog comments to be a
> representative of the whole Ubuntu community, then Upstream is justified
> at being offended.
>
> There is constructive criticism and there is just criticism/cynicism.
> Anonymity does not give a person the instant right to be rude.
>
> While it is easy for someone to make a passing comment about upstreams,
> it becomes a waste of time for people who have to interact with
> upstreams.
> We could all be more productive if people spent half that time, they
> spend commenting, on something more useful.
>

So any comment on something you don't agree with is not productive. I dont
know where you are going with changing the subject of the mail but i think
its offensive... I could just as easily write the same post on my blog and
dare you to write a subject on the mailing list.
Please don't take stuff personally. I have been there and it is not a good
path. You do awesome work but your only human and sometimes designers or
developers can see something as awesome while other see it as not. This is a
chance for the design team to reevaluate some work, or explain it.


> --
> Cheers,
> Vish
>
>
>
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As for the wallpaper I dont mind it :)
Cheers
Seif
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Re: [Ayatana] OMG!Ubuntu a bane or a boon? [was]Re: The new default wallpaper

[Martin Owens]

On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 15:38 +, Mohammed Amine IL Idrissi wrote:
> We could all be more productive if people spent half that time, they
> > spend commenting, on something more useful.

They think they're being more productive then they are. Pointing out
failings and being critical as you say is important. But these guys tend
to be far more brutish and far less responsible with what they say.

Which is something the CoC was designed to help with.

For the record, I don't like the wallpaper shown in the link, not my cup
of tea.

Martin,


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Re: [Ayatana] OMG!Ubuntu a bane or a boon? [was]Re: The new default wallpaper

[Seif Lotfy]

On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 5:52 PM, Martin Owens  wrote:

> On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 15:38 +, Mohammed Amine IL Idrissi wrote:
> > We could all be more productive if people spent half that time, they
> > > spend commenting, on something more useful.
>
> They think they're being more productive then they are. Pointing out
> failings and being critical as you say is important. But these guys tend
> to be far more brutish and far less responsible with what they say.
>

This is the post from OMG! Ubuntu!
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/08/ubuntu-1010-default-wallpaper.html
The
article has nothing brutish in it. The comments are not by the authors
though.

Ayatana is a collective effort to improve the user experience of software in
> and for Ubuntu. It encompasses a number projects started by Canonical and is
> open for *feedback*, ideas and initiatives from the community. Activities
> reach from problem definition, research and conception to implementation.


I think what they did legitimate, there is your feedback, from non community
members.


> Which is something the CoC was designed to help with.
>

I don't know which CoC you are referring to here: the OMG or the Ubuntu one,
but in both cases the comments made are not by the people who posted it.


> For the record, I don't like the wallpaper shown in the link, not my cup
> of tea.
>
> Martin,
>
>
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Re: [Ayatana] OMG!Ubuntu a bane or a boon? [was]Re: The new default wallpaper

[Andrew Laignel]

You want to see unbridled rude criticism of a level that the upstream
developers will never ever experience?  Search for the word 'Microsoft' on a
FOSS website.

Dealing with criticism is simply part of the job and if (the hopefully few)
developers upsteam are taking offence then that is something they need to
deal with.  Users see software as, well, software and often do not account
for the developer behind it, it's a fact of life and once it is accepted you
can learn to pick the useful points out of even the most vitriolic posts.

I would much rather (as a dev) get mean comments with a nugget of truth than
pandering praise which ultimately serves no purpose.  Personally very rarely
is there ever such a thing as truly unconstructive criticism.


> On 29/08/2010 16:21, "Vishnoo"  wrote:

> Backlash? Where? 
> Are we now considering the above mentioned blog as a representative of
> the whole Ubuntu community?
> 
> Some of the comments there are often highly disrespectful to upstream
> GNOME authors and I have personally seen upstream authors take offense
> to the comments on that blog. [at times to the articles too] And had to
> say that those are not the views of the whole Ubuntu community.
> 
> What worries me is that, if we consider those blog comments to be a
> representative of the whole Ubuntu community, then Upstream is justified
> at being offended.
> 
> There is constructive criticism and there is just criticism/cynicism.
> Anonymity does not give a person the instant right to be rude.
> 
> While it is easy for someone to make a passing comment about upstreams,
> it becomes a waste of time for people who have to interact with
> upstreams. 
> We could all be more productive if people spent half that time, they
> spend commenting, on something more useful.



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Re: [Ayatana] OMG!Ubuntu a bane or a boon? [was]Re: The new default wallpaper

[Vishnoo]

Before continuing, I'd like to remind that this is the second instance
within this cycle where a thread here is being brought due to a post on
the blog. Earlier, it was about the theme.


On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 17:50 +0200, Seif Lotfy wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 5:21 PM, Vishnoo  wrote:
> On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 08:23 -0300, Conscious User wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Some of you might be already aware of the controversy caused
> > by the (supposed) new default wallpaper:
> >
> >
> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/08/ubuntu-1010-default-wallpaper.html
> >
> 
> http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/2010/08/29/the-joke-that-is-mavericks-default-wallpaper/
> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/625193
> >
> > Because no one at the bug report mentioned the problem here,
> > despite being repeatedly recommended by Vish to doing so, I
> > am bringing up the subject.
> >
> > Personally, I must admit I have never seem such a heavy
> > backlash before.
> 
> Backlash? Where?
> Are we now considering the above mentioned blog as a
> representative of
> the whole Ubuntu community?
> 
> 
> They are Ubuntu users and thus do indeed have to be heard. Unlike most
> of the "Ubuntu Community" who are active in the Ubuntu scene. The
> comments from OMG! Ubuntu as well as the launchpad bug comments
> represent people who are not blessed as Ubuntu community members, yet
> are part of the Ubuntu eco-system. Maybe we should take their opinion
> sometimes, especially if its very much heard.
>  
> Some of the comments there are often highly disrespectful to
> upstream
> GNOME authors and I have personally seen upstream authors take
> offense
> to the comments on that blog. [at times to the articles too]
> And had to
> say that those are not the views of the whole Ubuntu
> community.
> 
> 
> And when they offend they apologize so we should all get over it
> already. 
>  
> What worries me is that, if we consider those blog comments to
> be a
> representative of the whole Ubuntu community, then Upstream is
> justified
> at being offended.
> 
> There is constructive criticism and there is just
> criticism/cynicism.
> Anonymity does not give a person the instant right to be rude.
> 
> While it is easy for someone to make a passing comment about
> upstreams,
> it becomes a waste of time for people who have to interact
> with
> upstreams.
> We could all be more productive if people spent half that
> time, they
> spend commenting, on something more useful.
> 
> 
> So any comment on something you don't agree with is not productive. I
> dont know where you are going with changing the subject of the mail
> but i think its offensive... 

No, I'm not saying everyone has to agree, as I said there needs to be
*constructive* criticism. Which is very much welcomed. And it does not
require a person to be rude. 

And I'm not talking about the articles themselves, I'm talking about the
comments since that was the rationale for the bug and the follow-up
consolidate!

If I'm to mention about the articles, did anyone verify if it was indeed
the final wallpaper?  It might well be! But, did anyone verify? Alteast
before consolidating all the negative comments in one place?

I ask this now, because the earlier theme article lead to people
questioning the theme changes *here* on the Ayatana mailing list and as
we all now know its wasnt the default theme!

You guys have a good platform but somehow it gets misused[by others]!
There needs to be a sanity check somewhere. Either better fact-checked
reporting [obviously people believe what you write] or we disregard
those comments as the pulse of the community[until something is actually
true].

-- 
Cheers,
Vish


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Re: [Ayatana] OMG!Ubuntu a bane or a boon? [was]Re: The new default wallpaper

[Shane Fagan]

Hey all,

I hate to be the mailing list police but this thread is going really off
topic. Criticism of OMG!Ubuntu isn't what this list is for. The guys
could have handled the harsh comments but really its up to them and it
is a private site so they can do what they want. They have a coc on the
site for about a month now and they really should have just deleted some
of the comments or closed the comments earlier. 

All that aside this discussion should be taken somewhere else.

--fagan

On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 17:45 +0100, Andrew Laignel wrote:
> You want to see unbridled rude criticism of a level that the upstream
> developers will never ever experience?  Search for the word 'Microsoft' on a
> FOSS website.
> 
> Dealing with criticism is simply part of the job and if (the hopefully few)
> developers upsteam are taking offence then that is something they need to
> deal with.  Users see software as, well, software and often do not account
> for the developer behind it, it's a fact of life and once it is accepted you
> can learn to pick the useful points out of even the most vitriolic posts.
> 
> I would much rather (as a dev) get mean comments with a nugget of truth than
> pandering praise which ultimately serves no purpose.  Personally very rarely
> is there ever such a thing as truly unconstructive criticism.
> 
> 
> > On 29/08/2010 16:21, "Vishnoo"  wrote:
> 
> > Backlash? Where? 
> > Are we now considering the above mentioned blog as a representative of
> > the whole Ubuntu community?
> > 
> > Some of the comments there are often highly disrespectful to upstream
> > GNOME authors and I have personally seen upstream authors take offense
> > to the comments on that blog. [at times to the articles too] And had to
> > say that those are not the views of the whole Ubuntu community.
> > 
> > What worries me is that, if we consider those blog comments to be a
> > representative of the whole Ubuntu community, then Upstream is justified
> > at being offended.
> > 
> > There is constructive criticism and there is just criticism/cynicism.
> > Anonymity does not give a person the instant right to be rude.
> > 
> > While it is easy for someone to make a passing comment about upstreams,
> > it becomes a waste of time for people who have to interact with
> > upstreams. 
> > We could all be more productive if people spent half that time, they
> > spend commenting, on something more useful.
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [Ayatana] OMG!Ubuntu a bane or a boon? [was]Re: The new default wallpaper

[Conscious User]

> And I'm not talking about the articles themselves, I'm talking about the
> comments since that was the rationale for the bug and the follow-up
> consolidate!
> 
> If I'm to mention about the articles, did anyone verify if it was indeed
> the final wallpaper?  It might well be! But, did anyone verify? Alteast
> before consolidating all the negative comments in one place?
> 
> I ask this now, because the earlier theme article lead to people
> questioning the theme changes *here* on the Ayatana mailing list and as
> we all now know its wasnt the default theme!
> 
> You guys have a good platform but somehow it gets misused[by others]!
> There needs to be a sanity check somewhere. Either better fact-checked
> reporting [obviously people believe what you write] or we disregard
> those comments as the pulse of the community[until something is actually
> true].

Vish, do not generalize. There are two reasons why I agreed with you
back then but cannot do it now:

1) This time we are not talking about a PPA, but about an official
update that came from the official repositories.

2) It is past UI freeze. Like I said in my other email, if we are going
to use "it has happened before" as an argument, then the very concept
of UI freeze needs to be rewworked. Being responsible for the Manual
team, Benjamin Humphrey for example has every right to feel frustrated
when the statement:

"The user interface must be stabilized at some point, so that
documentation writers and translators can work on a fixed target that
doesn't obsolete screenshots or documentation."
(https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserInterfaceFreeze)

turns out to be untrue in two releases in a row.



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Re: [Ayatana] OMG!Ubuntu a bane or a boon? [was]Re: The new default wallpaper

[Conscious User]

This reply is still going to the list because it concerns the
transparency of the design process as a whole and is not
restricted to OMG-related issues.

(in my opinion)

If you don't agree, it's going to be my last. Can you point to
another list which would be more adequate?

> UIF mention of the "documentation writers and translators" is the Ubuntu
> Docs team and the Ubuntu Translators. And not the Ubuntu Manual. And
> UIFe are granted by those two teams.

Is it? Doesn't the Docs team sometimes need screenshots too?

> Now what are we really worried about ? The UIF or the wallpaper? 
> We must realize we cant have both of those. ;)

That's *exactly* my point. The way I see it, there are two
possibilities:

a) The wallpaper is final. In this case, the concerns *are*
valid and your whole point about people complaining before
knowing is moot. (there is the problem of rudeness, but this
is a separate matter to be discussed separately)

b) The wallpaper is not final. In this case, what exactly
the users are guilty of? Of trusting the UIF? Of not knowing
that the UIF is unreliable, despite the fact that there are
no mentions of that in the wiki? Yes, perhaps there was an
overreaction, but I wouldn't call "trusting the release
schedule" a "lack of responsibility".

I don't disagree that the OMG users (and some of its owners)
sometimes need a change in attitude. But shifting the entire
blame to OMG and not seeing the design transparency problems
this "hysteria" is a symptom of is a mistake.



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Re: [Ayatana] OMG!Ubuntu a bane or a boon? [was]Re: The new default wallpaper

[Conscious User]

Oops.

Only after sending my last message I realized
Vish replied only to me.

Sorry about that and please ignore it.



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Re: [Ayatana] OMG!Ubuntu a bane or a boon? [was]Re: The new default wallpaper

[Martin Owens]

On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 18:12 +0200, Seif Lotfy wrote:
> The article has nothing brutish in it. The comments are not by the
> authors though.

I meant to say the commentators, do0d is nothing if not professional and
eloquent and I wouldn't want to make it look like I meant to say he was
in any way rude or offensive in his post.

Martin,


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Re: [Ayatana] OMG!Ubuntu a bane or a boon? [was]Re: The new default wallpaper

[Joern Konopka]

I actually didn't want to write for not pouring oil into this fire, but i
figured it would be of interest that the rising issue of offensive behavior
and inappropriate commenting on OMG! is an issue the Authors are well aware
of and are looking into deeply with the release of the new Interface on the
WordPress Platform. I cannot speak on behalf of the whole team but i know
there will be several more people keeping their eyes open to that the new
CoC will be kept intact and there will hopefully be less traction between
Public Opinion and a supposedly-to-be-used-for-better-things Mailing List
like this.

Like our friendly-neighborhood Superhero would say: "With great power, comes
great responsibility"

On the other hand, whenever it comes to things like f.e. the bug report on
the Wallpaper it's pretty much out of the Hands of the Authors cause
virtually anybody can report a bug. People are just people, all they want is
a clear statement, f.e. the reaction on the design.canonical Blog could've
simply read "Yeah, it's just a WIP, calm down" OR "Yep, it's official, we
like it, you can change it though". See? Less confusion and more straight
talking makes Homer a happy person.

2010/8/29 Martin Owens 

> On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 18:12 +0200, Seif Lotfy wrote:
> > The article has nothing brutish in it. The comments are not by the
> > authors though.
>
> I meant to say the commentators, do0d is nothing if not professional and
> eloquent and I wouldn't want to make it look like I meant to say he was
> in any way rude or offensive in his post.
>
> Martin,
>
>
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-- 
Why don't you start at the beginning? Yes, and when you reach the end...
Stop.
twitter.com/cldx3000
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Re: [Ayatana] OMG!Ubuntu a bane or a boon? [was]Re: The new default wallpaper

[Tyler Brainerd]

Hi there. I'm one of the authors and one of the moderators on OMG. We did,
in fact, delete the most rude comments, and then closed the comments at a
time when it was appropriate to do so. Very, very few of the comments broke
the CoC, and when that got out of hand we closed comments rather then trying
to keep up with every single one. Quite bluntly, people getting their
feelings hurt because their graphic design was called ugly is not against
our CoC, or anybody elses.

That said, our blog is representative of (generally speaking)
non-developing, end user Ubuntu users. A good many of them showed up to
express distaste in the wallpaper, because OMG is the only place that they
bother going. They don't want to sign up at launchpad, or register, or get
verified. But their criticism should not be ignored simply because it was
perceived to be degrading or whatever.

On Sun, Aug 29, 2010 at 9:52 AM, Shane Fagan wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> I hate to be the mailing list police but this thread is going really off
> topic. Criticism of OMG!Ubuntu isn't what this list is for. The guys
> could have handled the harsh comments but really its up to them and it
> is a private site so they can do what they want. They have a coc on the
> site for about a month now and they really should have just deleted some
> of the comments or closed the comments earlier.
>
> All that aside this discussion should be taken somewhere else.
>
> --fagan
>
> On Sun, 2010-08-29 at 17:45 +0100, Andrew Laignel wrote:
> > You want to see unbridled rude criticism of a level that the upstream
> > developers will never ever experience?  Search for the word 'Microsoft'
> on a
> > FOSS website.
> >
> > Dealing with criticism is simply part of the job and if (the hopefully
> few)
> > developers upsteam are taking offence then that is something they need to
> > deal with.  Users see software as, well, software and often do not
> account
> > for the developer behind it, it's a fact of life and once it is accepted
> you
> > can learn to pick the useful points out of even the most vitriolic posts.
> >
> > I would much rather (as a dev) get mean comments with a nugget of truth
> than
> > pandering praise which ultimately serves no purpose.  Personally very
> rarely
> > is there ever such a thing as truly unconstructive criticism.
> >
> >
> > > On 29/08/2010 16:21, "Vishnoo"  wrote:
> >
> > > Backlash? Where?
> > > Are we now considering the above mentioned blog as a representative of
> > > the whole Ubuntu community?
> > >
> > > Some of the comments there are often highly disrespectful to upstream
> > > GNOME authors and I have personally seen upstream authors take offense
> > > to the comments on that blog. [at times to the articles too] And had to
> > > say that those are not the views of the whole Ubuntu community.
> > >
> > > What worries me is that, if we consider those blog comments to be a
> > > representative of the whole Ubuntu community, then Upstream is
> justified
> > > at being offended.
> > >
> > > There is constructive criticism and there is just criticism/cynicism.
> > > Anonymity does not give a person the instant right to be rude.
> > >
> > > While it is easy for someone to make a passing comment about upstreams,
> > > it becomes a waste of time for people who have to interact with
> > > upstreams.
> > > We could all be more productive if people spent half that time, they
> > > spend commenting, on something more useful.
> >
> >
> >
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Re: [Ayatana] OMG!Ubuntu a bane or a boon? [was]Re: The new default wallpaper

[Mark Shuttleworth]

Thanks Vish for reminding folks of the importance of respect when
providing feedback. As Ubuntu grows, it's necessary for calm heads to
constantly remind newer folks of the core values of the project,
otherwise we'll lose the gravity that holds our galaxy together, so to
speak. The Code of Conduct is important, so when you see people stepping
out of it, please everyone help them cool down and we'll all be more
effective as a community as a result of your taking the trouble to do so.

That said, I think the feedback on the wallpaper is representative of
real concerns about it. Otto, the lead visual designer for our desktop
work in the Canonical design team, blogged about where he wants to go
with it at http://design.canonical.com/2010/09/ubuntu-default-wallpaper/
where he also invites folks who are keen to help pursue the underlying
idea. As a result of the feedback (even though some of it was, ahem,
undiplomatic ;-)) we'll revamp the wallpaper (and yes, it's a failure on
our part to have to do that post-UIF).

To summarise the idea: we want to make the desktop have a unique style,
but be personal to every different PC. In essence, the wallpaper for the
Lucid->12.04 series is a symphony of light and light-related effects,
and we want to make it so every day, each of those lights and effects
moves just a little bit for each user, in a different direction. So, at
release time, all the wallpapers look the same, but over the course of a
month or so they all end up being different. For each release, we'd vary
the "elements" a little, i.e. the number and relative strength of lights
/ flares / blurs.

We didn't get to implement that this cycle. I thought we could do it
with a Python-GIMP script that ran nightly. We need to use something
like Gegl for high-quality effects. Alas, we then dropped the GIMP from
the CD, so we'll need to figure a plan B :-)

Mark



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Re: [Ayatana] OMG!Ubuntu a bane or a boon? [was]Re: The new default wallpaper

[Nathan Haines]

On 09/02/2010 11:42 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:

That said, I think the feedback on the wallpaper is representative of
real concerns about it. Otto, the lead visual designer for our desktop
work in the Canonical design team, blogged about where he wants to go
with it at http://design.canonical.com/2010/09/ubuntu-default-wallpaper/
where he also invites folks who are keen to help pursue the underlying
idea. As a result of the feedback (even though some of it was, ahem,
undiplomatic ;-)) we'll revamp the wallpaper (and yes, it's a failure on
our part to have to do that post-UIF).


I was very happy to read Otto's post and thought this was a very 
intriguing idea.  I would love to see an evolving wallpaper and his 
description grasped my sense of fancy.  I'm afraid the resulting 
wallpaper did not match my expectations from his description, though, 
and I'm relieved to hear that it will be revamped.


Although I'm getting used to the wallpaper, first impressions always 
matter, and Ubuntu is in a very difficult position of being dramatically 
more elegant than Windows but perhaps not quite as elegant as Mac OS X, 
which it is now compared to.  This means the stakes have never felt higher.


This is also an incredible achievement, and definitely one I would not 
have predicted from Linux when I adopted Ubuntu 5.04 so many years ago.  
I'm thrilled that Canonical is boldly moving to improve design and 
usability.  And I recognize the pressure this places upon the design 
team and am definitely grateful that community feedback continues to 
inform the finished product.  The frequent updates from 
design.canonical.com have been a real pleasure to read, and I also 
appreciate the further update on the wallpaper status.


Regards,
Nathan

--
Nathan Haines
Ubuntu California Local Community Team


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Re: [Ayatana] OMG!Ubuntu a bane or a boon? [was]Re: The new default wallpaper

[Joseph Hughes]

I believe that Gnome has supported .svg wallpapers for some time. Is there
any reason why you're not considering using this? A quick search returned
this example. Refresh to see it change, and view the source to see how
simple the code is:
http://www.treebuilder.de/default.asp?file=205288.xml

Here's an svg wallpaper for KDE which gets closer to what you're looking
for:
http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Hydrogen?content=128829

With an experienced svg artist, it would be rather easy to create a
compelling (and dynamic) scene. If Canonical were to provide the layered
file of the current wallpaper, perhaps you could set it up as a challenge to
attract the attention of some svg experts? I'll even have a go.

Are there any technical issues I haven't considered? Performance?
Compatibility? You could of course use a static .jpg as a fallback.

Best,
Joseph
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Re: [Ayatana] OMG!Ubuntu a bane or a boon? [was]Re: The new default wallpaper

[Joseph Hughes]

Or, of course, implement something like Android's live wallpapers into Gnome
;)

http://developer.android.com/resources/articles/live-wallpapers.html

On Fri, Sep 3, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Joseph Hughes wrote:

> I believe that Gnome has supported .svg wallpapers for some time. Is there
> any reason why you're not considering using this? A quick search returned
> this example. Refresh to see it change, and view the source to see how
> simple the code is:
> http://www.treebuilder.de/default.asp?file=205288.xml
>
> Here's an svg wallpaper for KDE which gets closer to what you're looking
> for:
> http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Hydrogen?content=128829
>
> With an experienced svg artist, it would be rather easy to create a
> compelling (and dynamic) scene. If Canonical were to provide the layered
> file of the current wallpaper, perhaps you could set it up as a challenge to
> attract the attention of some svg experts? I'll even have a go.
>
> Are there any technical issues I haven't considered? Performance?
> Compatibility? You could of course use a static .jpg as a fallback.
>
> Best,
> Joseph
>
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Re: [Ayatana] OMG!Ubuntu a bane or a boon? [was]Re: The new default wallpaper

[Martin Owens]

On Fri, 2010-09-03 at 09:46 +0100, Joseph Hughes wrote:
> Are there any technical issues I haven't considered? Performance?
> Compatibility? You could of course use a static .jpg as a fallback.

Tests show gnome supports all the filter effects, blurring,
semi-transparencies and gradients that Inkscape does on Lucid.

I'm going to have a play with a script now.

Martin,


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