Re: [Ayatana] Unity's "desktop"

[frederik.nn...@gmail.com]

thanks a lot for the inspiration!

On Fri, Aug 20, 2010 at 02:29, Joern Konopka wrote:

>
>
> On 19.08.2010, at 23:34, Apoorva Sharma < 
> appi2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 1:27 AM, Mark Shuttleworth < 
> 
> m...@ubuntu.com> wrote:
>
>>  On 08/08/10 20:49, Apoorva Sharma wrote:
>> > I like all these ideas, but why not do what KDE4 did, and present a
>> > desktop of files, a zeitgeist timeline, etc. as widgets, so you could
>> > have access to files and useful information?
>>
>> I do think a gadget story is interesting. There's no really compelling
>> framework out there today, though. Google's implementations have a lot
>> of rendering and usability problems, and the gadgets are not attractive.
>> Yahoo's is closed source. The others are marginal.
>>
>
> I was thinking more on the lines of desktop implementations, not web
> implemtation, like KDE4's Plasma.
>
> Am I missing a good candidate?
>>
>
> I don't think you forgot to mention any specific candidate, but is it
> possible to create an implementation ourselves? It wouldn't need so many
> gadgets, just a clock, file view, and notes should be enough to start.
> However, if we had a good framework for developing more, I'm sure more will
> follow.
>
> Also, something like this could possibly work:
>
> 
> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/07/plasmadashboard-equivalent-coming-to.html
>
>
>
> If I may lead attention to SeedKit for a second:
>  
> http://live.gnome.org/SeedKit
>  In a nutshell it's a gtkWidget holding a
> (optionally) transparent webkit container, it ties strongly with the Seed
> JavaScript Implementation, GObject Introspection and DBUS (all the sweet
> stuff everyones looking at right now).
> I think by putting WebTechnology in the front row we'll have the highest
> possible developer base. Just imagine something like A Ubuntu Widget Website
> not unlike Android Market or the App Store ( or a tie in with the USC )
> where people can upload new Widgets which provide them with capabilities
> like :
> 1. Easy to learn and get into ( any other guy could write a basic Widget
> within under a Day)
>
> 2. Are easily portable to other Mobile Devices, Websites and Distributions
>
> 3. Offers Devs of f.e. iPhone HTML5 Apps a very convenient way to bring
> their Apps to a new Audience in form of a Widget.
>
> The sweet thing about it, it's already working and would only need the
> WM_CLASS treatment (meaning a window class for widgets of course).
>
> One could even go as far as supplying the Widget with a pull and push
> function (Pull= a "real" GTKWindow, push=move back to widget space) and you
> could even "listen" to the window state via CSS Media Queries.
>
> Proof of concept:
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1890515/MiniPlayerPreview.ogv
>
> I pulled this off in just a couple hours even though I never used Seedkit
> before.
>
> Best Regards, Joern
>
> ___
> Mailing list: 
> https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> Post to :  
> ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : 
> https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> More help   : 
> 
> https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
> ___
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
___
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ayatana] Unity's "desktop"

[Mark Shuttleworth]

Joern, that looks really interesting!



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ayatana] Unity's "desktop"

[Andrew SB]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 8:29 PM, Joern Konopka  wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 1:27 AM, Mark Shuttleworth  wrote:
>>
>>  On 08/08/10 20:49, Apoorva Sharma wrote:
>> > I like all these ideas, but why not do what KDE4 did, and present a
>> > desktop of files, a zeitgeist timeline, etc. as widgets, so you could
>> > have access to files and useful information?
>>
>> I do think a gadget story is interesting. There's no really compelling
>> framework out there today, though. Google's implementations have a lot
>> of rendering and usability problems, and the gadgets are not attractive.
>> Yahoo's is closed source. The others are marginal.
>
> I was thinking more on the lines of desktop implementations, not web
> implemtation, like KDE4's Plasma.
>
>> Am I missing a good candidate?


> If I may lead attention to SeedKit for a second:
> http://live.gnome.org/SeedKit
> In a nutshell it's a gtkWidget holding a (optionally) transparent webkit
> container, it ties strongly with the Seed JavaScript Implementation, GObject
> Introspection and DBUS (all the sweet stuff everyones looking at right now).
> I think by putting WebTechnology in the front row we'll have the highest
> possible developer base. Just imagine something like A Ubuntu Widget Website
> not unlike Android Market or the App Store ( or a tie in with the USC )
> where people can upload new Widgets which provide them with capabilities
> like :
> 1. Easy to learn and get into ( any other guy could write a basic Widget
> within under a Day)
> 2. Are easily portable to other Mobile Devices, Websites and Distributions
> 3. Offers Devs of f.e. iPhone HTML5 Apps a very convenient way to bring
> their Apps to a new Audience in form of a Widget.
> The sweet thing about it, it's already working and would only need the
> WM_CLASS treatment (meaning a window class for widgets of course).
> One could even go as far as supplying the Widget with a pull and push
> function (Pull= a "real" GTKWindow, push=move back to widget space) and you
> could even "listen" to the window state via CSS Media Queries.
> Proof of concept:
> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1890515/MiniPlayerPreview.ogv
> I pulled this off in just a couple hours even though I never used Seedkit
> before.


Thanks for point that out! I hadn't come across that yet. It looks
very promising, and I can't wait to dig into it more.

What I'd really like to see is something like this in a sandboxed
environment. There's been a lot of talk about making it easier for
"opportunistic" developers to get apps out to Ubuntu users, and the
comparison is always iPhone|Android. In some ways the discussion of
the new "Post Release App" process is putting the cart before the
horse. Developing a framework like this paired with something like the
"Post Release App" process could be very interesting...

- Andrew SB

___
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ayatana] Unity's "desktop"

[Martin Owens]

On Thu, 2010-08-19 at 07:27 +0100, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:
> I do think a gadget story is interesting. There's no really compelling
> framework out there today, though. Google's implementations have a lot
> of rendering and usability problems, and the gadgets are not
> attractive.
> Yahoo's is closed source. The others are marginal.

Gadgets seem to be the proto-desktop content design stage. We had to
have a space where we could experiment with the desktop and put in a set
of things.

Now perhaps something more structured in called for? Something that
goesn't need an aweful lot of setup and configuration.

> Am I missing a good candidate?

Clutter with really funky design for netbooks?

Perhaps make some sort of plugin architecture for unity /
netbook-launcher, give devels a place to play with ideas and extensions
about adding to visible data to the desktop and see what drops out.

I'd for instance like to see what would happen if you tied the status
and notifiers APIs into a structured clutter gadget. Someone already
mentioned contacts. Other things are surely a curiosity too.

Martin,


___
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ayatana] Unity's "desktop"

[Joern Konopka]

On 19.08.2010, at 23:34, Apoorva Sharma  wrote:

> 
> 
> On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 1:27 AM, Mark Shuttleworth  wrote:
>  On 08/08/10 20:49, Apoorva Sharma wrote:
> > I like all these ideas, but why not do what KDE4 did, and present a
> > desktop of files, a zeitgeist timeline, etc. as widgets, so you could
> > have access to files and useful information?
> 
> I do think a gadget story is interesting. There's no really compelling
> framework out there today, though. Google's implementations have a lot
> of rendering and usability problems, and the gadgets are not attractive.
> Yahoo's is closed source. The others are marginal.
> 
> I was thinking more on the lines of desktop implementations, not web 
> implemtation, like KDE4's Plasma.
> 
> Am I missing a good candidate?
> 
> I don't think you forgot to mention any specific candidate, but is it 
> possible to create an implementation ourselves? It wouldn't need so many 
> gadgets, just a clock, file view, and notes should be enough to start. 
> However, if we had a good framework for developing more, I'm sure more will 
> follow.
> 
> Also, something like this could possibly work:
> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/07/plasmadashboard-equivalent-coming-to.html
>  

If I may lead attention to SeedKit for a second:
http://live.gnome.org/SeedKit
In a nutshell it's a gtkWidget holding a (optionally) transparent webkit 
container, it ties strongly with the Seed JavaScript Implementation, GObject 
Introspection and DBUS (all the sweet stuff everyones looking at right now).
I think by putting WebTechnology in the front row we'll have the highest 
possible developer base. Just imagine something like A Ubuntu Widget Website 
not unlike Android Market or the App Store ( or a tie in with the USC ) where 
people can upload new Widgets which provide them with capabilities like :
1. Easy to learn and get into ( any other guy could write a basic Widget within 
under a Day)

2. Are easily portable to other Mobile Devices, Websites and Distributions 

3. Offers Devs of f.e. iPhone HTML5 Apps a very convenient way to bring their 
Apps to a new Audience in form of a Widget.

The sweet thing about it, it's already working and would only need the WM_CLASS 
treatment (meaning a window class for widgets of course).

One could even go as far as supplying the Widget with a pull and push function 
(Pull= a "real" GTKWindow, push=move back to widget space) and you could even 
"listen" to the window state via CSS Media Queries.

Proof of concept:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1890515/MiniPlayerPreview.ogv

I pulled this off in just a couple hours even though I never used Seedkit 
before.

Best Regards, Joern
> ___
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

___
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ayatana] Unity's "desktop"

[Apoorva Sharma]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 1:27 AM, Mark Shuttleworth  wrote:

>  On 08/08/10 20:49, Apoorva Sharma wrote:
> > I like all these ideas, but why not do what KDE4 did, and present a
> > desktop of files, a zeitgeist timeline, etc. as widgets, so you could
> > have access to files and useful information?
>
> I do think a gadget story is interesting. There's no really compelling
> framework out there today, though. Google's implementations have a lot
> of rendering and usability problems, and the gadgets are not attractive.
> Yahoo's is closed source. The others are marginal.
>

I was thinking more on the lines of desktop implementations, not web
implemtation, like KDE4's Plasma.

Am I missing a good candidate?
>

I don't think you forgot to mention any specific candidate, but is it
possible to create an implementation ourselves? It wouldn't need so many
gadgets, just a clock, file view, and notes should be enough to start.
However, if we had a good framework for developing more, I'm sure more will
follow.

Also, something like this could possibly work:
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/07/plasmadashboard-equivalent-coming-to.html
___
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ayatana] Unity's "desktop"

[Mark Shuttleworth]

 On 08/08/10 20:49, Apoorva Sharma wrote:
> I like all these ideas, but why not do what KDE4 did, and present a
> desktop of files, a zeitgeist timeline, etc. as widgets, so you could
> have access to files and useful information?

I do think a gadget story is interesting. There's no really compelling
framework out there today, though. Google's implementations have a lot
of rendering and usability problems, and the gadgets are not attractive.
Yahoo's is closed source. The others are marginal.

Am I missing a good candidate?

Mark



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ayatana] Unity's "desktop"

[Apoorva Sharma]

I like all these ideas, but why not do what KDE4 did, and present a desktop
of files, a zeitgeist timeline, etc. as widgets, so you could have access to
files and useful information?
___
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ayatana] Unity's "desktop"

[Martin Owens]

On Sat, 2010-08-07 at 13:07 -0600, Jeremy Nickurak wrote:
> Traditionally, the desktop is used as a file browser for the home
> directory. That's the way I like it but I understand we're trying
> to get away from a "file" view in general...

Perhaps, but I think it more likely that we are headed away from the
concept of fix structures, singular entities in fixed and very basic
groupings and sub groupings.

We've found the structuring to be systematically limiting when balancing
appropriate folder use and user intuition and object concepts.

Although that's not to say that folders and files should go away,
because bob knows that abstracting away files into databases has been a
disaster for data reuse, backups and application cross compatibility.

Something sensible that can make groups into items which are indexed,
items in multiple places (but not stored in multiple places) and
obviously searchable in different contexts with different weightings.
Should I think solve a bunch of problems and open up the platform so
it's not so attractive to abstract into a bunch of inaccessible and
non-standard formats.

Martin,


___
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ayatana] Unity's "desktop"

[David Callé]

On sam., 2010-08-07 at 21:17 +0200, Joern Konopka wrote:
> Can anybody say 'Zeitgeist Timeline' please?

Wouldn't it be redundant with the time-based view from the Dash?



___
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ayatana] Unity's "desktop"

[Joern Konopka]

Can anybody say 'Zeitgeist Timeline' please?



http://twitter.com/cldx3000

On 07.08.2010, at 21:07, Jeremy Nickurak  wrote:

> Traditionally, the desktop is used as a file browser for the home directory. 
> That's the way I like it but I understand we're trying to get away from a 
> "file" view in general...
> 
> What about a Document view of some kind? A view of the various things you've 
> created, and that persist in your storage of choice (whether that's local 
> disk, or Ubuntu One, or network shares).
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jeremy Nickurak -= Email/XMPP: -= jer...@nickurak.ca =- 
> 
> ___
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
___
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Re: [Ayatana] Unity's "desktop"

[Jeremy Nickurak]

Traditionally, the desktop is used as a file browser for the home directory.
That's the way I like it but I understand we're trying to get away from
a "file" view in general...

What about a Document view of some kind? A view of the various things you've
created, and that persist in your storage of choice (whether that's local
disk, or Ubuntu One, or network shares).


-- 
Jeremy Nickurak -= Email/XMPP: -= jer...@nickurak.ca =-
___
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

[Ayatana] Unity's "desktop"

[Apoorva Sharma]

Currently, when a user logs in to a unity session, they are presented with a
dock and a top panel. The rest of the space shows just a pretty picture.
Although I like background images, I feel that for a portable device such as
a netbook, this space can be put to better use.

My proposal is to have a framework for widgets that the user can add to
their clean desktop. (Think OSX dashboard or kde plasma.)

These would provide useful information at the opening of a laptop lid, such
as weather, calendar, analog clock (not really useful), email, etc.

I realize that it isn't possible to develop this in time for 10.10, but I
feel it would be a good addition for 11.04.

If I understand correctly, the entire desktop is drawn by clutter in unity.
If this is correct, then it should be easy to have widgets that look
nice/are animated.

I think Unity should ship with a collection of widgets, but I also think
that more importantly, Unity should have a framework for custom widgets,
perhaps installable through the software center.

What do you think?
___
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp