Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Getting users to care (was Re: [Fwd: Re: Update manager])
Alex Launi wrote: David Siegel also had a really great idea for making updates fun (and it also solves the issue of how to handle updates- notification icon or pop-under window) at the install updates on shutdown discussion. Let me preface this with these are his ideas and not mine, I think they're great and he deserves the credit. His idea was to do updates at login. We could do the checking while you're using, and then if we find them on reboot show them in gdm with a nice present icon, like we're giving you a gift. This way if an update requires a restart, you don't have to save your state, restart, blah blah blah and interrupt your entire workflow, you haven't started yet. It might not be possible now, but when the clutter gdm finally lands we could do it really beautifully. Interesting, but don't forget the do the checking while you're using step will need to actually download the updated packages, because when you reach gdm network may not be up (think laptop with crypted wifi). A problem with this solution though, is that it does not help people who mostly suspend/resume their machine. We could also present this update icon at resume stage, on the lock screen, but again this won't help people who suspend/resume without locking the machine (for example, soho desktop users). Aurélien ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Getting users to care (was Re: [Fwd: Re: Update manager])
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 18:09:24 +0200 Alex Launi alex.la...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 5:06 PM, tacone tac...@gmail.com wrote: Good intent, bad idea. I disagree, let's imagine this scenario, together... blur and wiggle dream sequence style scene change It's Tuesday morning, you get up and turn on your computer. Whilst you were fast asleep dreaming of sugar plums and sexy librarians Ubuntu packagers were hard at work packaging updates for your favourite operating system. Now that it's morning, these updates are available, for you! You boot up and arrive at the slick new GDM. But what's this message? New updates available! Click here to install Some days you're very busy, and need your computer right away so you chose to ignore them and log right in. That's ok, they'll be available when you're ready. Update Manager shouldn't go away, you should be able to launch it yourself manually if you want to update once you've logged in and found out that DST was this weekend and you've got some extra time. But today you decide to click. The interface changes nicely into a screen displaying what updates are available, and asking for your username and password to authorize install / log in. If you're not an administrator we will politely tell you that you can't perform an upgrade, and that you should let your administrator know that your system needs some updates. At this point we just finish the login, since you just gave us your info. Awesome. Now let's say you are an admin, this update requires no reboot so we log you right in, and when the desktop is loaded there is already a dialog waiting giving you the progress of your update. You may continue working, you weren't cost much time, and your system is fully secure because you're up to date. But next time there might be a kernel upgrade, which will require a restart. In this case we should ask the user what they'd like to do. In some cases the estimated time to finish (which we will show) may only be 2 minutes, and we can afford that so we just halt the login and modally install the upgrades, or we allow them to say ok i recognize that this update will need a restart to apply, but I need my computer- so lets continue like there are no updates that require a reboot, and I will reboot when I'm ready. blur and wiggle dream sequence end style change Awesome, right? What about those who use an autologin? They will never see those gdm screens. -- Charlie Kravetz Linux Registered User Number 425914 [http://counter.li.org/] Never let anyone steal your DREAM. [http://keepingdreams.com] ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Getting users to care (was Re: [Fwd: Re: Update manager])
...This was hilarious, sexy librarians and all... Me personally, I don't have a *huge *issue presenting updates at the beginning of a log-in sequence. As a user, you know they are there, and you either ignore or proceed. I can't help but think though, that when I login to my desktop normally, the Update Manager usually shows up within 2-5 minutes with updates, and when it does- I cringe at the thought of having to reboot. Now, would those updates have made me cringe less if I haven't already opened Firefox, Evolution, and a track to listen to? Probably... But, it still is something different than other OS' default behavior (Not a bad thing, most updates systems already stink). I guess I relate it most to the example of an avid user of Firefox plugins. I hate when I open my browser and those updates are there, I usually ignore them because I want into my Gmail, or whatever the case may be. It is a different way to look at updates, however, and not a bad idea at that... -Anthony On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 9:09 AM, Alex Launi alex.la...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 5:06 PM, tacone tac...@gmail.com wrote: Good intent, bad idea. I disagree, let's imagine this scenario, together... blur and wiggle dream sequence style scene change It's Tuesday morning, you get up and turn on your computer. Whilst you were fast asleep dreaming of sugar plums and sexy librarians Ubuntu packagers were hard at work packaging updates for your favourite operating system. Now that it's morning, these updates are available, for you! You boot up and arrive at the slick new GDM. But what's this message? New updates available! Click here to install Some days you're very busy, and need your computer right away so you chose to ignore them and log right in. That's ok, they'll be available when you're ready. Update Manager shouldn't go away, you should be able to launch it yourself manually if you want to update once you've logged in and found out that DST was this weekend and you've got some extra time. But today you decide to click. The interface changes nicely into a screen displaying what updates are available, and asking for your username and password to authorize install / log in. If you're not an administrator we will politely tell you that you can't perform an upgrade, and that you should let your administrator know that your system needs some updates. At this point we just finish the login, since you just gave us your info. Awesome. Now let's say you are an admin, this update requires no reboot so we log you right in, and when the desktop is loaded there is already a dialog waiting giving you the progress of your update. You may continue working, you weren't cost much time, and your system is fully secure because you're up to date. But next time there might be a kernel upgrade, which will require a restart. In this case we should ask the user what they'd like to do. In some cases the estimated time to finish (which we will show) may only be 2 minutes, and we can afford that so we just halt the login and modally install the upgrades, or we allow them to say ok i recognize that this update will need a restart to apply, but I need my computer- so lets continue like there are no updates that require a reboot, and I will reboot when I'm ready. blur and wiggle dream sequence end style change Awesome, right? -- --Alex Launi ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatanahttps://launchpad.net/%7Eayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatanahttps://launchpad.net/%7Eayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Getting users to care (was Re: [Fwd: Re: Update manager])
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Charlie Kravetz c...@teamcharliesangels.com wrote: What about those who use an autologin? They will never see those gdm screens. Like I said, update-manager doesn't go away. It just gets more or less deprecated for most users. For this small subset we just fallback to current behaviour. -- --Alex Launi ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Getting users to care (was Re: [Fwd: Re: Update manager])
Awesome, right? Not sure about what your whole reply meant. I think that notifying on startup has many disadvantage and it's not applicable in some cases (kernel upgrades, autologin). It's not wonder windows why asks for it at the shutdown. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Getting users to care (was Re: [Fwd: Re: Update manager])
Alex Launi wrote: I disagree, let's imagine this scenario, together... blur and wiggle dream sequence end style change The whole dream assumes that the downloads are already downloaded/quickly downloaded... Consider users with slow connections, so the downloads take time to be initially downloaded download is larger the longer the wait time! Downloads take time, also when the user is connected to via a secure *wireless connections the connection is established ONLY after login* , which allows the passkey use! cheers, mac_v ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Getting users to care (was Re: [Fwd: Re: Update manager])
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 8:06 PM, mac_v drkv...@yahoo.com wrote: AFAIK Auto downloads of the updates is far worse! 1: user might be using 3G at some point where the downloads cost a lot! 2: downloads while i'm watching streaming video content would cause the lags in my videos which i would hate. Who said auto download updates? You guys put words in my mouth, I never said we should do that. If you read the scenario I presented you'll see that whether or not updates are download ahead of time is irrelevant. Also- I started a new thread of this discussion, can we please continue it there? -- --Alex Launi ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
