Re: [Ayatana] Unity's Scope

2012-01-05 Thread davidc 

On 05.01.2012 15:35, Thorsten Wilms wrote:

On 01/05/2012 11:08 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:

I had this same question on Tuesday, because I was specifying how
packaged lenses and scopes should be presented in Ubuntu Software
Center. At a stretch, people might be expected to learn what the
"Dash" is. But "lenses" and "scopes" are developer jargon, best
avoided if possible.

So I asked John Lea, and he clarified that lenses and scopes are
supposed to be just for searching. I asked, what if someone
implemented a calculator lens? (I was reminded of Mac OS X's 
Spotlight

menu: for example, if you enter "pi * 2", it will show "pi * 2 =
6.28318351" above any search results.) John replied that he'd prefer
if that kind of thing wasn't possible in the Dash.

So, I specified that the USC subcategory should be called "Dash 
Search

Plugins".


Given just the architectural constraints, I'd say the text entry part
of the Dash allows queries. One could try to differentiate queries 
and

conversions, but on some level they're the same.

What's the difference between Search and Query? Well, I think input
for a calculator woulr rather be called a query then a search.

The rest of the dash is about selection, primarily by means of
browsing and immediate selection.

I do not think that things like a Calculator lense hurt. Considering
how I use the calculator now and then, it's often just one quick
calculation, where not bothering with a separate app would be quite
nice. Then again, I do of course see the issue of duplicated
functionality with diverging interfaces.


For the record, there is a lens called "utilities", with some useful 
scopes.

- Calculator (using gcalctool cli)
- Cities (local time and weather for a city name)

The lens is hidden and doesn't have an icon in the lens bar, but scopes 
reacts to queries they recognize, in the Home Dash.

( https://launchpad.net/~scopes-packagers/+archive/ppa )


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Re: [Ayatana] Unity's Scope

2012-01-05 Thread Thorsten Wilms 

On 01/05/2012 11:08 AM, Matthew Paul Thomas wrote:

I had this same question on Tuesday, because I was specifying how
packaged lenses and scopes should be presented in Ubuntu Software
Center. At a stretch, people might be expected to learn what the
"Dash" is. But "lenses" and "scopes" are developer jargon, best
avoided if possible.

So I asked John Lea, and he clarified that lenses and scopes are
supposed to be just for searching. I asked, what if someone
implemented a calculator lens? (I was reminded of Mac OS X's Spotlight
menu: for example, if you enter "pi * 2", it will show "pi * 2 =
6.28318351" above any search results.) John replied that he'd prefer
if that kind of thing wasn't possible in the Dash.

So, I specified that the USC subcategory should be called "Dash Search
Plugins".


Given just the architectural constraints, I'd say the text entry part of 
the Dash allows queries. One could try to differentiate queries and 
conversions, but on some level they're the same.


What's the difference between Search and Query? Well, I think input for 
a calculator woulr rather be called a query then a search.


The rest of the dash is about selection, primarily by means of browsing 
and immediate selection.


I do not think that things like a Calculator lense hurt. Considering how 
I use the calculator now and then, it's often just one quick 
calculation, where not bothering with a separate app would be quite 
nice. Then again, I do of course see the issue of duplicated 
functionality with diverging interfaces.



--
Thorsten Wilms

thorwil's design for free software:
http://thorwil.wordpress.com/

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Re: [Ayatana] Unity's Scope

2012-01-05 Thread Matthew Paul Thomas 
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Hash: SHA1

Jonathan Meek wrote on 05/01/12 04:29:
> 
> In a recent discussion on Google+ Cassidy James (of elementary
> fame) was asking just what defines a scope or lense on Unity. There
> is no real set guideline for what they are or should do.
> 
> To me, Unity is about hooking in and searching.


I had this same question on Tuesday, because I was specifying how
packaged lenses and scopes should be presented in Ubuntu Software
Center. At a stretch, people might be expected to learn what the
"Dash" is. But "lenses" and "scopes" are developer jargon, best
avoided if possible.

So I asked John Lea, and he clarified that lenses and scopes are
supposed to be just for searching. I asked, what if someone
implemented a calculator lens? (I was reminded of Mac OS X's Spotlight
menu: for example, if you enter "pi * 2", it will show "pi * 2 =
6.28318351" above any search results.) John replied that he'd prefer
if that kind of thing wasn't possible in the Dash.

So, I specified that the USC subcategory should be called "Dash Search
Plugins". 

> You should be able to search from Unity for anything (or alter it
> such that you can) so that it removes the arbitrary imposition of
> "you can search for X in Dash, but Y & Z HAVE to be done in a web
> browser."


There will always be searches that have to be done in a Web browser,
because nobody has implemented a lens or scope for them yet. And even
if there is a lens/scope available, many people won't use it, because
they don't know about it, because they don't have permission to
install it, or because the Web UI offers features and information
density that the Dash can't compete with.

(That is, perhaps, one of the reasons Sherlock died. It was too much
bother for developers to create, and users to install, plugins for a
non-Web client -- despite the Sherlock interface being much more
adaptable than the Dash is.  Its
partial successor, Dashboard, had the same problem to a lesser extent.
)

> If that is the case, then how do we explain the binary clock
> that's been implemented? Do we stop developers from creating
> different "fun" scopes because it should be about search? Or should
> it be whatever someone can imagine?
> 
> If it is, when do we say when? How do we make recommendations?
> 
> ...


Perhaps when they try to publish it in USC. You're right that we would
need guidelines to point to, though.

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Re: [Ayatana] Unity's Scope

2012-01-05 Thread Jonathan Meek 
Thank you for the prompt response. I was not aware of the site prior to now
and this will be nice to have on hand.

On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 5:17 AM, John Lea  wrote:

>  *Hi Jonathan,
>
> Thanks for bringing the up. There is a brief definition at the top of the
> Lens documentation ( * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses ).  Another
> summery of the Dash is:
> *
> "The Dash aims to provide a lightweight, instant and easy means to browse
> and retrieve content.  The Dash is the beginning of most user journeys; a
> user first finds the content they are looking for in the Dash before moving
> to the relevant application. The Dash is content centric; content sources
> are grouped together around content types.  When a user wishes to search,
> they are given the option of using a interface tailored to the needs
> associated with searching a specific type of content (music, applications,
> etc...).  The Dash is storage location agnostic, content is aggregated from
> the user’s computer, their private cloud and the public web.  Using the
> Dash requires no management; content does not need to be organised in order
> to be readily accessible and there is zero configuration.   All content
> items can also have multiple parents; for example the song “You Give Love a
> Bad Name” can be categorised as both “80s” and “Soft Rock” (as opposed to
> the traditional files and folders pattern where a file can only be placed
> in a single folder).  The Dash works with all form factors and input
> devices, a user should be equally comfortable using the Dash with touch,
> keyboard or pointer navigation."
>
> **So yes the binary clock does not fit with the purpose and objectives of
> the Dash. However it is fun and playful, and while we would never ship it
> by default, I don't believe there should be restrictions on what users can
> choose to install. That would take us down a very un-free Apple like path.
>
> cheers,
> John
> *
>
> On 05/01/12 04:29, Jonathan Meek wrote:
>
> In a recent discussion on Google+ Cassidy James (of elementary fame) was
> asking just what defines a scope or lense on Unity. There is no real set
> guideline for what they are or should do.
>
>  To me, Unity is about hooking in and searching. You should be able to
> search from Unity for anything (or alter it such that you can) so that it
> removes the arbitrary imposition of "you can search for X in Dash, but Y &
> Z HAVE to be done in a web browser."
>
>  If that is the case, then how do we explain the binary clock that's been
> implemented? Do we stop developers from creating different "fun" scopes
> because it should be about search? Or should it be whatever someone can
> imagine?
>
>  If it is, when do we say when? How do we make recommendations?
>
>  I imagine this will be something that will be covered in whatever
> eventual HIG springs up, but the "damage" (not meant in a literal sense, I
> like the work being done) is being done now. The precedent is being set.
>
>
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>
> --
> John Lea | Ubuntu Desktop User Experience Lead
> Canonical  www.canonical.com | Ubuntu  www.ubuntu.com
> 27th Floor, 21-24 Millbank Tower, London, SW1P 4QP
> Tel: +44 (0) 20 7630 2415 | Email: john@canonical.com
>
>
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Re: [Ayatana] Unity's Scope

2012-01-05 Thread John Lea 

*Hi Jonathan,

Thanks for bringing the up. There is a brief definition at the top of 
the Lens documentation ( * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/Lenses ).  
Another summery of the Dash is:

*
"The Dash aims to provide a lightweight, instant and easy means to 
browse and retrieve content.  The Dash is the beginning of most user 
journeys; a user first finds the content they are looking for in the 
Dash before moving to the relevant application. The Dash is content 
centric; content sources are grouped together around content types. 
 When a user wishes to search, they are given the option of using a 
interface tailored to the needs associated with searching a specific 
type of content (music, applications, etc...).  The Dash is storage 
location agnostic, content is aggregated from the user's computer, their 
private cloud and the public web.  Using the Dash requires no 
management; content does not need to be organised in order to be readily 
accessible and there is zero configuration.   All content items can also 
have multiple parents; for example the song "You Give Love a Bad Name" 
can be categorised as both "80s" and "Soft Rock" (as opposed to the 
traditional files and folders pattern where a file can only be placed in 
a single folder).  The Dash works with all form factors and input 
devices, a user should be equally comfortable using the Dash with touch, 
keyboard or pointer navigation."


**So yes the binary clock does not fit with the purpose and objectives 
of the Dash. However it is fun and playful, and while we would never 
ship it by default, I don't believe there should be restrictions on what 
users can choose to install. That would take us down a very un-free 
Apple like path.


cheers,
John
*

On 05/01/12 04:29, Jonathan Meek wrote:
In a recent discussion on Google+ Cassidy James (of elementary fame) 
was asking just what defines a scope or lense on Unity. There is no 
real set guideline for what they are or should do.


To me, Unity is about hooking in and searching. You should be able to 
search from Unity for anything (or alter it such that you can) so that 
it removes the arbitrary imposition of "you can search for X in Dash, 
but Y & Z HAVE to be done in a web browser."


If that is the case, then how do we explain the binary clock that's 
been implemented? Do we stop developers from creating different "fun" 
scopes because it should be about search? Or should it be whatever 
someone can imagine?


If it is, when do we say when? How do we make recommendations?

I imagine this will be something that will be covered in whatever 
eventual HIG springs up, but the "damage" (not meant in a literal 
sense, I like the work being done) is being done now. The precedent is 
being set.



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--
John Lea | Ubuntu Desktop User Experience Lead
Canonical  www.canonical.com | Ubuntu  www.ubuntu.com
27th Floor, 21-24 Millbank Tower, London, SW1P 4QP
Tel: +44 (0) 20 7630 2415 | Email: john@canonical.com

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