Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on unknown father'
Eileen, I think you will see more out of wedlock births in the Matriz than in the smaller churches. 1) You'll probably have to send a link to the record you are seeing. I didn't think of the wet nurse as Doug da Rocha Holmes mentioned. However, there was a format that was to be followed. You do see these from time to time in the books. They put: N, filho legitimo de N. e N... where N = nome (name). The out of wedlock births seem to follow a format too, but I've never seen the form where they put N. for nome. I think the form was dictated by the Vatican. I've read French records in the same format. I'm sure others who have Italian, Spanish, or some other nationality that is Catholic will probably say the same thing. 2) The birth rate would have to be put in perspective of history. I just googled illegitmate birth rate and then illegitmate birth rate historical and saw a few links. I didn't see any back to the 1800s (and I didn't click on all the links), but I do see birth rates in America in the 1990s that range from 12% to 70% based on race. Hope this helps a little. Cheri Mello Listowner, Azores-Gen Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on unknown father'
Hi John,I didn't know about the stipend given to unwed mothers to keep the baby. That was surely a very effective way to prevent many babies from abandonment.I always look carefully at the godparents. Ever since I found a cousin living in Piedade, Pico from my Leal da Rosa side, way back in 1992 or so on my first visit there, I really paid attention, because this person's ancestor was born before the parents married. There was no hint in the marriage record that he was born illegitimate. But I couldn't locate his baptism until I found the mother about a year before she married. This was about 1840, to give you a time frame. The father was listed as unknown, BUT the father was the godfather in this instance. I don't remember for certain whether I have ever seen that again, but just in case, I like to identify the families of the godparents, because more often than not they are uncles and aunts, as you well know.Obrigado,Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Genealogist916-550-1618 Original Message Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on "unknown father' From: John Raposo marra...@yahoo.com Date: Sat, December 08, 2012 9:56 am To: "azores@googlegroups.com" azores@googlegroups.com Doug is correct in his explanation and observations. I would add that big places like Ponta Delgada and Vila Franca, etc, often had convents, with their lazy Susan wheels. This meant that instead of just abandonning a child in a tiny rural village where he might not be "found" right away, the child was immediately (unanymously and with the mother unseen by the institution) taken in by the foundling home/convent instead of being left exposed "exposto" to the elements and the mercy of a chance discovery. The problem is that these convents often did not have enough wet nursesavailable to take inall ofthe babies taken in and the death rate was even higher for those children than for the ones who were placed, although the death rate for them was also higher than average.Although the rate of abandonned children was high in the towns and cities, it was also alarmingly high in the villages in the 18th to mid 19th centuries. There are probably two reasons for this: 1- Poverty/too many mouths to feed and not enough land to produce as much food as needed (When the government started paying a stipend to the unwed mother for the care and maintainance of the child, the rate of abandonment dropped dramatically around 1850); 2- the stigma of giving birth to a child outside of marriage. In the villages, the identity of the parents of many of these children of unknown parentage was an open secret. From: "p...@dholmes.com" p...@dholmes.com To: azores@googlegroups.com Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 7:56 AM Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on "unknown father'Hi Eileen,You are not reading the records correctly.Pai = fatherPais = parents (also means country, but not in this case).So what you are talking about are children abandoned and the women married to men are known as the "ama" or wet nurses given the charge of caring for them.These children are called "expostos" or foundlings and if they should live to adulthood might choose the surname of these foster parents, but not always, by any means.Expostos tend to be greater in larger locations. Check out the volume of them in a city like Angra where they had separate books for some time periods.Same for Ponta Delgada's parishes.The reason for this might be, or probably is that they were brought from outside villages to the main villages or city.If the woman was single and kept the child, the record usually reads "filho/a natural de ..." and then the name of the mother. Often, but not always the father will be listed as pai incognito, or simply not mentioned.Good luck,Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Genealogist916-550-1618 Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on "unknown father' From: "Eileen Leite" eileenle...@seleite.com Date: Sat, December 08, 2012 12:03 am To: azores@googlegroups.com I have been reading baptismal records from Matriz Mae de Deus, Povoacao, Sao Miguel, in 1811-1818. I see what I think is a high number of illegitimate births, “Pais incognito” and “(child) natural”, and have some questions. 1. It seems that almost every time there is a Pais incognito (father unknown), the record notes that the mother is married to a named someone who is NOT the father of the child. (Casada com or mulher de) Rarely it will say “pais incognito” and (Mother) solteira. If the mother is single, the format is usually different, and says merely “(Child) of (Mother), Single” or “(Child) natural of (Mother)” . Does the priest have a choice in what he writes, or is there a different implication in the format chosen for the record? 2. I counted 13 illegitimate children in a mere 36 pages, or 72 records. That is 18%. Of these, 9 were born to mothers married to men other than the father. Removing the babies born
[AZORES-Genealogy] CCA site
Is anyone else having problems access it? If so they must be adding records. Pam -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] CCA site
I just checked and could not get it to come up. It would be nice if they were adding more records. Rick Richard Francis Pimentel Spring, TX Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande, Bretanha, and Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel, Acores From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pam Santos Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 7:17 PM To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] CCA site Is anyone else having problems access it? If so they must be adding records. Pam -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] CCA site
Thanks. I hope so. On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Richard Francis Pimentel rfrancispimen...@comcast.net wrote: *I just checked and could not get it to come up. It would be nice if they were adding more records.* * * *Rick* * * *Richard Francis Pimentel* *Spring, TX* *Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire * * * *Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande, Bretanha, and Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel, Acores* * * *From:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Pam Santos *Sent:* Saturday, December 08, 2012 7:17 PM *To:* azores@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [AZORES-Genealogy] CCA site ** ** Is anyone else having problems access it? If so they must be adding records. ** ** ** ** Pam -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] CCA site
I doubt it. It's the weekend, so the site is simply down until Monday, I'd guess.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Genealogist916-550-1618 Original Message Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] CCA site From: "Richard Francis Pimentel" rfrancispimen...@comcast.net Date: Sat, December 08, 2012 6:45 pm To: azores@googlegroups.com I just checked and could not get it to come up. It would be nice if they were adding more records.RickRichard Francis PimentelSpring, TXFormerly of Epping, New Hampshire Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande, Bretanha, and Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel, AcoresFrom: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pam SantosSent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 7:17 PMTo: azores@googlegroups.comSubject: [AZORES-Genealogy] CCA siteIs anyone else having problems access it? If so they must be adding records.Pam-- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive.For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] CCA site
It is back up now. Most likely they were just doing some site maintenance. I did a quick check and did not see anything new for Sao Miguel. Rick Richard Francis Pimentel Spring, TX Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande, Bretanha, and Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel, Acores From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pam Santos Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 7:52 PM To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] CCA site Thanks. I hope so. On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Richard Francis Pimentel rfrancispimen...@comcast.net wrote: I just checked and could not get it to come up. It would be nice if they were adding more records. Rick Richard Francis Pimentel Spring, TX Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande, Bretanha, and Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel, Acores From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pam Santos Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 7:17 PM To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] CCA site Is anyone else having problems access it? If so they must be adding records. Pam -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com mailto:azores%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com . Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on unknown father'
All of the comments were very enlightening, your explanations wonderfully clear. Thank you all for taking the time to explain this to me. And I was cruising along feeling pretty confident in my reading ability - haha! But wow, was I off on this! What a difference an s makes! Back to Portuguese records 101 for me! J I have seen lots of expostos/as, and have probably passed over other 'pais incognito', but had not seen so many clustered so close together. An interesting note: virtually all of the records seemed to say the child was 'two or three days' old which confused me, but which makes total sense now, as they were abandoned and thus their exact birth date was unknown. Gratefully, Eileen Leite From: p...@dholmes.com [mailto:p...@dholmes.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 1:56 AM To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on unknown father' Hi Eileen, You are not reading the records correctly. Pai = father Pais = parents (also means country, but not in this case). So what you are talking about are children abandoned and the women married to men are known as the ama or wet nurses given the charge of caring for them. These children are called expostos or foundlings and if they should live to adulthood might choose the surname of these foster parents, but not always, by any means. Expostos tend to be greater in larger locations. Check out the volume of them in a city like Angra where they had separate books for some time periods. Same for Ponta Delgada's parishes. The reason for this might be, or probably is that they were brought from outside villages to the main villages or city. If the woman was single and kept the child, the record usually reads filho/a natural de ... and then the name of the mother. Often, but not always the father will be listed as pai incognito, or simply not mentioned. Good luck, Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Genealogist 916-550-1618 Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on unknown father' From: Eileen Leite mailto:eileenle...@seleite.com eileenle...@seleite.com Date: Sat, December 08, 2012 12:03 am To: mailto:azores@googlegroups.com azores@googlegroups.com I have been reading baptismal records from Matriz Mae de Deus, Povoacao, Sao Miguel, in 1811-1818. I see what I think is a high number of illegitimate births, Pais incognito and (child) natural, and have some questions. 1. It seems that almost every time there is a Pais incognito (father unknown), the record notes that the mother is married to a named someone who is NOT the father of the child. (Casada com or mulher de) Rarely it will say pais incognito and (Mother) solteira. If the mother is single, the format is usually different, and says merely (Child) of (Mother), Single or (Child) natural of (Mother) . Does the priest have a choice in what he writes, or is there a different implication in the format chosen for the record? 2. I counted 13 illegitimate children in a mere 36 pages, or 72 records. That is 18%. Of these, 9 were born to mothers married to men other than the father. Removing the babies born to single mothers, 2 in 15 babies born to married women were not of her husband. This seems really high to me. Were the husbands away for some reason? Or was there a reason a woman would not claim her own husband to be the father of the child? Just wondering what was going on. Would anyone know why there were so many illegitimate births? Thanks! Eileen Leite Currently seeking Rebellos/Rabellos and de Frias in Povoacao, And Brandao in Nordeste. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to mailto:azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] CCA site
Yes and that response error is not happening any longer thank god. On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 9:34 PM, p...@dholmes.com wrote: That's sure a pleasant surprise. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Genealogist 916-550-1618 Original Message Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] CCA site From: Richard Francis Pimentel rfrancispimen...@comcast.net Date: Sat, December 08, 2012 9:53 pm To: azores@googlegroups.com *It is back up now. Most likely they were just doing some site maintenance. I did a quick check and did not see anything new for Sao Miguel.* * * *Rick* * * *Richard Francis Pimentel* *Spring, TX* *Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire * * * *Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande, Bretanha, and Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel, Acores* * * *From:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.comazores@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Pam Santos *Sent:* Saturday, December 08, 2012 7:52 PM *To:* azores@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] CCA site ** ** Thanks. I hope so. On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Richard Francis Pimentel rfrancispimen...@comcast.net wrote: *I just checked and could not get it to come up. It would be nice if they were adding more records.* * * *Rick* * * *Richard Francis Pimentel* *Spring, TX* *Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire * * * *Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande, Bretanha, and Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel, Acores* * * *From:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Pam Santos *Sent:* Saturday, December 08, 2012 7:17 PM *To:* azores@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [AZORES-Genealogy] CCA site Is anyone else having problems access it? If so they must be adding records. Pam -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] CCA site
Umm spoke to soon, still getting that error On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 9:37 PM, Pam Santos pamsanto...@gmail.com wrote: Yes and that response error is not happening any longer thank god. On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 9:34 PM, p...@dholmes.com wrote: That's sure a pleasant surprise. Doug da Rocha Holmes Sacramento, California Pico Genealogist 916-550-1618 Original Message Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] CCA site From: Richard Francis Pimentel rfrancispimen...@comcast.net Date: Sat, December 08, 2012 9:53 pm To: azores@googlegroups.com *It is back up now. Most likely they were just doing some site maintenance. I did a quick check and did not see anything new for Sao Miguel.* * * *Rick* * * *Richard Francis Pimentel* *Spring, TX* *Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire * * * *Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande, Bretanha, and Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel, Acores* * * *From:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.comazores@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Pam Santos *Sent:* Saturday, December 08, 2012 7:52 PM *To:* azores@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] CCA site ** ** Thanks. I hope so. On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 5:45 PM, Richard Francis Pimentel rfrancispimen...@comcast.net wrote: *I just checked and could not get it to come up. It would be nice if they were adding more records.* * * *Rick* * * *Richard Francis Pimentel* *Spring, TX* *Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire * * * *Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande, Bretanha, and Ponta Delgada, Sao Miguel, Acores* * * *From:* azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Pam Santos *Sent:* Saturday, December 08, 2012 7:17 PM *To:* azores@googlegroups.com *Subject:* [AZORES-Genealogy] CCA site Is anyone else having problems access it? If so they must be adding records. Pam -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on unknown father'
Another word you might find here and there instead of "exposto" is "engeitado" which has the same meaning, or rejected, abandoned. Now spelled enjeitado.Off the top of my head, I believe this is the preferred word in Angra, Terceira in the middle to late 1700s. At least, that's what comes to mind. It might be used in many places in this period.More than anything, it probably has more to do with the priest's vocabulary.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Genealogist916-550-1618 Original Message Subject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on "unknown father' From: "Eileen Leite" eileenle...@seleite.com Date: Sat, December 08, 2012 10:01 pm To: azores@googlegroups.com All of the comments were very enlightening, your explanations wonderfully clear. Thank you all for taking the time to explain this to me. And I was cruising along feeling pretty confident in my reading ability – haha! But wow, was I off on this! What a difference an “s” makes! Back to Portuguese records 101 for me! J I have seen lots of expostos/as, and have probably passed over other ‘pais incognito’, but had not seen so many clustered so close together. An interesting note: virtually all of the records seemed to say the child was ‘two or three days’ old which confused me, but which makes total sense now, as they were abandoned and thus their exact birth date was unknown.Gratefully, Eileen Leite From: p...@dholmes.com [mailto:p...@dholmes.com] Sent: Saturday, December 08, 2012 1:56 AMTo: azores@googlegroups.comSubject: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on "unknown father'Hi Eileen,You are not reading the records correctly.Pai = fatherPais = parents (also means country, but not in this case).So what you are talking about are children abandoned and the women married to men are known as the "ama" or wet nurses given the charge of caring for them.These children are called "expostos" or foundlings and if they should live to adulthood might choose the surname of these foster parents, but not always, by any means.Expostos tend to be greater in larger locations. Check out the volume of them in a city like Angra where they had separate books for some time periods.Same for Ponta Delgada's parishes.The reason for this might be, or probably is that they were brought from outside villages to the main villages or city.If the woman was single and kept the child, the record usually reads "filho/a natural de ..." and then the name of the mother. Often, but not always the father will be listed as pai incognito, or simply not mentioned.Good luck,Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico Genealogist916-550-1618 Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Question on "unknown father'From: "Eileen Leite" eileenle...@seleite.comDate: Sat, December 08, 2012 12:03 amTo: azores@googlegroups.comI have been reading baptismal records from Matriz Mae de Deus, Povoacao, Sao Miguel, in 1811-1818. I see what I think is a high number of illegitimate births, “Pais incognito” and “(child) natural”, and have some questions.1. It seems that almost every time there is a Pais incognito (father unknown), the record notes that the mother is married to a named someone who is NOT the father of the child. (Casada com or mulher de) Rarely it will say “pais incognito” and (Mother) solteira. If the mother is single, the format is usually different, and says merely “(Child) of (Mother), Single” or “(Child) natural of (Mother)” . Does the priest have a choice in what he writes, or is there a different implication in the format chosen for the record? 2. I counted 13 illegitimate children in a mere 36 pages, or 72 records. That is 18%. Of these, 9 were born to mothers married to men other than the father. Removing the babies born to single mothers, 2 in 15 babies born to married women were not of her husband. This seems really high to me. Were the husbands away for some reason? Or was there a reason a woman would not claim her own husband to be the father of the child? Just wondering what was going on. Would anyone know why there were so many illegitimate births? Thanks!Eileen LeiteCurrently seeking Rebellos/Rabellos and de Frias in Povoacao, And Brandao in Nordeste. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive.For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership." -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive.For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that
[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: CCA site
I always have trouble accessing it on a Sunday here in South Australia. I suspected they might be doing some maintenance at weekends OR there are a lot of people using it. Very frustrating! It kept cutting in and out yesterday afternoon as well. (saturday). Nothing doing all day today. Diane On Sunday, 9 December 2012 11:47:08 UTC+10:30, Pam Santos wrote: Is anyone else having problems access it? If so they must be adding records. Pam -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: CCA site
I have had trouble all week On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Diane ddon...@bigpond.net.au wrote: I always have trouble accessing it on a Sunday here in South Australia. I suspected they might be doing some maintenance at weekends OR there are a lot of people using it. Very frustrating! It kept cutting in and out yesterday afternoon as well. (saturday). Nothing doing all day today. Diane On Sunday, 9 December 2012 11:47:08 UTC+10:30, Pam Santos wrote: Is anyone else having problems access it? If so they must be adding records. Pam -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
